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[cfmtfm]

This forum has become hostile towards opinions and I'm already taking my leave from suggestions and requests and discussions. It's too heated, people are shot down, there's so much aggression and bullying. I literally came back about a month ago and I kind of want to leave already.

 

What's happening, people?

This isn't to do with the mods; it's more about how the users are acting. We're really just bringing this onto ourselves, IMHO.

 

I think 'bullying' is a harsh word; if it was that extreme, you should really report it.

[Nectaris]

Perhaps "bumps" wouldn't count as activity?

And how would we keep topics alive at all then? A topic can have an active artist, but they have several projects going on and can't get to them all at once, and/or life interferes and they can't do it that often. I really don't see the harm in letting them sit for a while, two months is really not a long time for something to wait. If there MUST be cut-off date, I think it should be at LEAST three months, four would be better.

 

A consequence of this could be that OPs would push artists more for getting their stuff out faster. It already can be annoying to have a pushy OP that insists on art being put out in the next day, do we need to add a reason for them to be pushy?

Edited June 18, 2013 by Nectaris

[BlueSkyy]

I dunno if this goes here, but I'm going to put it in all caps because I would literally pay to have this feature available:

 

PLEASE ALLOW ME TO BLOCK/HIDE ALL OF A SPECIFIC USER'S POSTS.

[Amur_Rama]

I decided to check on the EATW thread to see why it's changed how it gives views again. Only to find the thread gone (deleted?), is there a new one with a different title/link somewhere?

[brairtrainer]

I decided to check on the EATW thread to see why it's changed how it gives views again. Only to find the thread gone (deleted?), is there a new one with a different title/link somewhere?

As far as I know there is not another EATW thread.

 

Which brings me to my feedback:

 

Wiping that thread when there was no notice (cleaning it and then deleteing it) leaves a bad taste with how the issue of what is going on with the site.

 

I wouldn't have mind it kept locked as long as we had some sort of update, since the site is still functioning (still has access to the api) and with players still using the site and recommending it its not going to dissappear.

 

If TJ is still trying to decide whether EATW is reverse engineering or not that'd be fine. I just want to know if I'll need to change sites in the long run so I can plan my move for my eggs and hatchlings.

 

If the owner of the site has decided to keep threads off the DC forums then'd I'd have liked to see 'thread will be removed at this time by request of op'.

 

Basically I know fansites are not part of the site, but they are part of the forum and I'd like to know what is going on when something a fansite does concerns the rules, and whether or not they will have to take it down or anything else.

[Fuzzbucket]

I'd like to know too - BUT - I think if TJ is working on rejigging the cave so that reverse engineering is not/less possible, he may need to do that in private, to stop others trying to sabotage his efforts.

 

YES to the request for ignoring people's posts. Invision can do it, and I have asked before. I MIGHT be a lot better behaved if I didn't see some people's posts !

 

...or not - but you have to chance your arm !

[Ashes The Second]

This isn't to do with the mods; it's more about how the users are acting. We're really just bringing this onto ourselves, IMHO.

 

I think 'bullying' is a harsh word; if it was that extreme, you should really report it.

Agreed, this community as a whole is hostile towards ideas, not people. And if you want to leave, you can just not read or participate in a thread: every forum section is collapsible.

[olympe]

Well, it's still true that this place is rather hostile, and that something should be done about it.

[Pokemonfan13]

What would you suggest, Olympe?

[olympe]

That open hostility becomes a warnable offense? I don't know, but it can't be good if people get flamed or mobbed for expressing an opinion or even dare to make a suggestion.

[shikaru]

Open hostility is a warnable offense? The whole 'Respect others' thing.

[Fuzzbucket]

Open hostility is a warnable offense? The whole 'Respect others' thing.

^this^

 

I haven't actually seen any that wasn't dealt with smartish. (Including one coming from moi )

[RainDear]

Maybe the problem is that we members aren't reporting when we see attacks or are being attacked? Of course, we have to differentiate between personal attacks and attacks of the idea under discussion. Certainly, when someone posts an idea and ten people give reasons (sometimes vehemently) against the idea, it can feel like an attack, even though it really isn't.

[Fuzzbucket]

Maybe the problem is that we members aren't reporting when we see attacks or are being attacked? Of course, we have to differentiate between personal attacks and attacks of the idea under discussion. Certainly, when someone posts an idea and ten people give reasons (sometimes vehemently) against the idea, it can feel like an attack, even though it really isn't.

You said it yourself ! If few agree with you - generic - in any sphere of life it feels like war !

[whitebaron]

What would you suggest, Olympe?

One of the problems, why hostility ensues, is that we get very few to no info on whether a new suggestion is feasible AT ALL. Best recent example is the three silver update topics.

 

Thus, people can only guess, without feedback from TJ // the site, which leads to heavy arguments without any real merit.

 

To fix this, there would need to be someone official to talk/post here, someone who can officially say yes, no, maybe. It could be any mod, it could be TJ himself, important is that this person would speak with the same authority on suggestion as if tj would have done so himself.

 

TLDR: What Suggestions needs most, is better Public Relations.

[_Z_]

Maybe the problem is that we members aren't reporting when we see attacks or are being attacked? Of course, we have to differentiate between personal attacks and attacks of the idea under discussion. Certainly, when someone posts an idea and ten people give reasons (sometimes vehemently) against the idea, it can feel like an attack, even though it really isn't.

Please report all posts members feel are attacks, personal or otherwise. We mods can decide if the "attack" was intentional, a misunderstanding or other.

[Fuzzbucket]

One of the problems, why hostility ensues, is that we get very few to no info on whether a new suggestion is feasible AT ALL. Best recent example is the three silver update topics.

 

Thus, people can only guess, without feedback from TJ // the site, which leads to heavy arguments without any real merit.

 

To fix this, there would need to be someone official to talk/post here, someone who can officially say yes, no, maybe. It could be any mod, it could be TJ himself, important is that this person would speak with the same authority on suggestion as if tj would have done so himself.

 

TLDR: What Suggestions needs most, is better Public Relations.

Several of us in the discussion thread did ask for a "ruling" from TJ on the circumstances in which it is OK for members other than the spriters to ask for sprite changes, how it can be asked for and what we may NOT ask for. I await such guidelines with interest and little hope... The threads would not have been the way they were if there had been such guidelines. And what puzzled me most was that I had seen (and after Socky said something on one of them, routinely reported) threads asking for updates before and they had ALL been shut down at once as being disrespectful to the spriters.

 

And Kitoxa - while she had at one point said that SHE wanted to update the sprites - was NOT in at the beginning of it all. Which I think should have meant the thread was closed as soon as it opened, like... We NEED guidelines for this stuff.

[whitebaron]

Thats still just one example, fuzz (albeit a big one).

 

You cannot foresee all suggestions, thus there should be any form of user feedback that's official. Anything else is just tearing the users apart needlessly.

[Whitekeaton]

I believe better public relations are the key to solving most of the hostility that is being alluded to. Unfortunately only one person is accountable for giving people meaningful answers to their questions and suggestions, and we can't say or judge as to whether TJ has real life issues that take precedent over management of the site/forum or if there are other reasons for witholding information that would put many a user's minds at rest. Most of the drama from the silver threads could have been averted by a simple yes/no statement as to whether it was even worth arguing over the issue in the first place, and I'm at somewhat of a loss as to why he didn't make at least one post in any of the three threads when they were evidently the cause of a lot of disparity. He surely knows he's the only person here who has the power to give definitive answers on these sorts of subjects, as the sole site owner he has the responsibility of making sure his userbase doesn't tear itself apart when it can be avoided through such simple actions. One other thing I think requires serious management by him is dragon requests, but that is an issue that has been discussed elsewhere, although I am not sure if he plans to take action as a result of the discussion that took place. I understand he can't be transparent about every issue and some things don't need to be explained, but simply feeling like we're being listened by the person in control would go a long way.

[KageSora]

I believe I specifically called for more transparency from TJ on things like this in the Silver Discussion thread.

 

The less he actually says "I'm willing to consider X, I'm not willing to consider Y, I'll consider Z if you make these changes", the more we just chase our tails and get increasingly frustrated and agitated and hostile towards each other.

 

The less he shows up to say anything, the more it feels like we're just talking to thin air.

 

Even a basic "I've read this suggestion, and am considering the points raised by both sides" could do wonders to reassure people, I think.

 

If he refuses to show up and comment, it almost starts to feel like he's just letting us fight to keep us occupied after a while.

 

 

I'm not saying he has to be 100% totally open with everything, but a tiny bit more transparency would really be a big help.

 

 

If TJ is busy with real life issues, which I understand will happen, then I would suggest a thread be closed temporarily with a notice of "Will be shown to TJ when he has time to look over it" or something. That stops us from continuing to fight while letting us know that TJ will look at it when life permits him to.

Edited June 21, 2013 by KageSora

[Pokemonfan13]

Kage, you make a very good point. But I find it rather amusing that the one thread that TJ has put in a decent amount of input [raise holiday limits] all it's done is frustrate the users involved to no end. x3 As far as I'm concerned that suggestion is pretty much dead in the water because he hasn't left any viable ways to implement it. Not saying that that's what will happen if he gets more involved by any means, I just felt the need to say it. xP

[TJ09]

One of the problems, why hostility ensues, is that we get very few to no info on whether a new suggestion is feasible AT ALL. Best recent example is the three silver update topics.

 

Thus, people can only guess, without feedback from TJ // the site, which leads to heavy arguments without any real merit.

 

To fix this, there would need to be someone official to talk/post here, someone who can officially say yes, no, maybe. It could be any mod, it could be TJ himself, important is that this person would speak with the same authority on suggestion as if tj would have done so himself.

 

TLDR: What Suggestions needs most, is better Public Relations.

While me being more responsive is a completely separate issue in itself, I really don't think it's the cause of hostility in this section.

 

Most of the time a suggestion gets mobbed with rejections (which is probably 80% of what makes this section seem hostile) is within the first 20 posts. The only way I could prevent that is by saying "yes" or "no" immediately after a topic is posted.

 

And if I do that, why bother having a discussion?

[Spelunker]

While me being more responsive is a completely separate issue in itself, I really don't think it's the cause of hostility in this section.

 

Most of the time a suggestion gets mobbed with rejections (which is probably 80% of what makes this section seem hostile) is within the first 20 posts. The only way I could prevent that is by saying "yes" or "no" immediately after a topic is posted.

 

And if I do that, why bother having a discussion?

True, your lack of response is not the issue, but it is still a large issue.

 

Why?

 

Take a look at the Silver Update thread. That thread ran for quite a while, and was almost always at or near the top of the forum. It was always visible, and a large cause of dissent among the userbase. A simple explanation would have solved so much and saved us from much of the consternation associated with controversial topics. And if you're not going to update, or are not seriously considering it, then closing the spriting thread would have saved many hours of work by artists.

 

And RE: "And if I do that, why bother having a discussion?"

 

Yes, discussion is a good thing. Extended discussion and people running around in circles is not. Intervention by higher-ups is necessary when people start to chase their own tails and reiterate the same points, or else you end up with confused, frustrated users.

[Cinnamin Draconna]

While me being more responsive is a completely separate issue in itself, I really don't think it's the cause of hostility in this section.

 

Most of the time a suggestion gets mobbed with rejections (which is probably 80% of what makes this section seem hostile) is within the first 20 posts. The only way I could prevent that is by saying "yes" or "no" immediately after a topic is posted.

 

And if I do that, why bother having a discussion?

So come back a few days later and make a ruling instead of leaving us hanging with no idea how you feel about the suggestion. Your compulsive secrecy is what riles me up more than anything, I'm not asking for advance copy of what's being released next or what changes you will be implementing on the next update. I'm asking to know if a release is coming.... or is an update coming... or has a suggestion been approved or denied. Broad term stuff, not details.

 

The one other thing I'd really, really like to know is when and why dragons are sometimes removed from the completed list. Again, details aren't needed if there has been some controversy involved, just a date and a general reason is all I ask. And this would only apply to REJECTED dragons, not the ones you remove prior to releasing them.

[HeatherMarie]

I have to disagree. While I would *really* appreciate TJ's participation, to any extent at all, in the most controversial topics, I don't think that's the problem here.

 

I've been here for years, and I've *seen* the hostility for years. Imo, DC, for whatever reason, has a minority of users who take the game VERY VERY SERIOUSLY and have VERY strict ideas about how the game should and shouldn't work (just look at all the freezing-hatchlings and killing-adults talks for those!). And they are vocal.

 

Which, in itself, is fine. I'm very vocal when I see a suggestion that makes me feel like DC itself would be turned upside down. But some people get so upset or passionate or whatever about their side being *right* and the other side being *wrong* that politeness sort of flies out the window. Especially if it's already a long thread and they've already been debating their point for awhile, it's easy for people to end up snapping at others.

 

Honestly, I feel it's sorta human nature to become defensive about things you are passionate about. When it turns aggressive/hostile, that's what the warn button is for.