American Politics

[AngelKitty]

I went to some very diverse schools and dealt with bullying from everyone of every race. Judging and ostracizing is a typical human behavior, especially among kids. If you went to a predominantly Hispanic school and weren't into things the kids there liked, you'd have dealt with the same thing from them. You can't say "it's a white thing" based on kids, of all people. Kids are seriously jerks, especially in packs.

 

On the adult scale, this sort of thing is a symptom of a loss of power. In America and elsewhere, wealthy white Christian heterosexual cis-men (WWCHCM, because I'm lazy) have traditionally held all the power. But now women, the poor, people of color, non-Christians, and LGBTQ people are making their voices heard and are threatening that power. So now WWCHCM are flailing and trying to get it back using all possible arguments and means - appealing to religion, nostalgia, "tradition," etc. - to rally other WWCHCM and their families and friends. The same dynamics can be seen in other countries that overall lack white people - just look at what's going on in various Middle Eastern countries. Judging, othering, and oppressing is a tradition of the powerful, because more often than not, that's how power is obtained and kept.

 

I hope I'm making sense, I'm not feeling too swell today.

[Vhale]

It's a bit of a sidetrack. The point wasn't that being a righteous snot is a white thing, but that there is plenty left to be desired old "traditional" values. Depending on where one fell in the social spectrum anyway. I don't think anyone meant to imply that other races or countries were missing that or that it's not a human trait. Simply that in our experience, white tradition is not perfect.

[Vocalia]

http://www.ibtimes.com/woman-runs-over-hus...a-police-873470

 

Off-topic: I'm sure that this is just an isolated incident, but are Americans really this crazy about Mr Obama being re-elected? (Note: I'm Indonesian.)

 

EDITED: #spellingfail. My bad.

Edited November 13, 2012 by Vocalia

[~Kat~]

Residents In More Than A Dozen States Petition White House To Secede From United States

 

These are the States below

 

Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, California, Colorado, Delaware, Florida, Georgia, Indiana, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Michigan, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, New Jersey, New York, Nevada, North Carolina, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, Oregon, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas, Utah and Wyoming.

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/12/s...26pLid%3D233624

[Kyrieath]

http://www.ibtimes.com/woman-runs-over-hus...a-police-873470

 

Off-topic: I'm sure that this is just an isolated president, but are Americans really this crazy about Mr Obama being re-elected? (Note: I'm Indonesian.)

Some are, unfortunately. I will note most wouldn't go so far as this woman did. Someone plainly has issues a bit beyond being upset about the results. But you know what they say about straw and the camel's back. Usually it just results in heated arguments, internet stupidity, and fuming. (see this thread, actually, from a few days ago when the results were first announced. Pretty good examples there for how 'bad' it usually gets.)

 

But should note we also get stupidly heated over just about anything if it riles up some competitive spirit. We've had people attack each other over football rivalries and other such inanity. So politics aren't too shocking a thing to fuel such behavior during election time. The fact it comes only once every four years just gives it a little more impact than the latest seasonal sport.

 

I promise the rest of the population is quite sane to the point of being incredibly boring. Even during election years.

[Fuzzbucket]

http://www.ibtimes.com/woman-runs-over-hus...a-police-873470

 

Off-topic: I'm sure that this is just an isolated incident, but are Americans really this crazy about Mr Obama being re-elected? (Note: I'm Indonesian.)

 

EDITED: #spellingfail. My bad.

Sadly - some are... (I edited your post as I think maybe you... )

 

ETA OH - I see you caught it

[Vocalia]

Sadly - some are... (I edited your post as I think maybe you... )

 

ETA OH - I see you caught it

 

LOL, a fail on my part. Apologies and so glad I hadn't made a fool of myself in front of too many forum-goers.

 

Some are, unfortunately. I will note most wouldn't go so far as this woman did. Someone plainly has issues a bit beyond being upset about the results. But you know what they say about straw and the camel's back. Usually it just results in heated arguments, internet stupidity, and fuming. (see this thread, actually, from a few days ago when the results were first announced. Pretty good examples there for how 'bad' it usually gets.)

 

But should note we also get stupidly heated over just about anything if it riles up some competitive spirit. We've had people attack each other over football rivalries and other such inanity. So politics aren't too shocking a thing to fuel such behavior during election time. The fact it comes only once every four years just gives it a little more impact than the latest seasonal sport.

 

I promise the rest of the population is quite sane to the point of being incredibly boring. Even during election years.

 

... Regarding the football, it reminds me of Indonesian football/soccer. We have a saying that "We've bought tickets to watch a riot. We got soccer instead". We have 3 candidate pairs for presidency in 2009, one of whom is a woman. Some Indonesians hate the only female president we have over the timeline of the presidency, main reason being that 'she's a gal', among others. I think some Americans sounded like some entitled children over this whole election, but this incident takes the good, loopy cake. I would've voted for Gary Johnson if I was an eligible American voter just because I don't feel any click to Mr Obama or Mr Romney.

 

Don't worry too much about my perception of Americans, though. I know that you're not as loopy and as much of a fruitcake as some people made you out to be. I have some American friends here in Australia and they're great folks! And you have Disneyland~!

Edited November 13, 2012 by Vocalia

[brairtrainer]

Residents In More Than A Dozen States Petition White House To Secede From United States

 

These are the States below

 

Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, California, Colorado, Delaware, Florida, Georgia, Indiana, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Michigan, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, New Jersey, New York, Nevada, North Carolina, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, Oregon, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas, Utah and Wyoming.

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/12/s...26pLid%3D233624

I highly doubt those petitions will get anywhere, especially since some of those states don't have what it takes to function individually.

 

Also, considering part of the outcome of the civil war was to show that once you are a part of the union you may not cecede from the union. That was the original reason the civil war was fought, the slaves being freed was an addition used to weaken the otherside until the 13th amendment abolished it for good.

[Kyrieath]

... Regarding the football, it reminds me of Indonesian football/soccer. We have a saying that "We've bought tickets to watch a riot. We got soccer instead". We have 3 candidate pairs for presidency in 2009, one of whom is a woman. Some Indonesians hate the only female president we have over the timeline of the presidency, main reason being that 'she's a gal', among others. I think some Americans sounded like some entitled children over this whole election, but this incident takes the good, loopy cake. I would've voted for Gary Johnson if I was an eligible American voter just because I don't feel any click to Mr Obama or Mr Romney.

 

Don't worry too much about my perception of Americans, though. I know that you're not as loopy and as much of a fruitcake as some people made you out to be. I have some American friends here in Australia and they're great folks! And you have Disneyland~!

*snickers* Yeah, that sounds about like our view on things like (american) football especially. -Sadly, I think America would probably sound a good bit like Indonesia there if we ever got a female president. You always hear the ones who are upset/malcontent for whatever reason more than those who are fine with it.

 

Well no denying in some ways- we can be very spoiled and childish as a people. We're used to speaking our minds- it just sometimes gets taken too far when individuals take it upon themselves to act as if they are 'The People' incarnate and not just a single person with an opinion. That would be the spoiled and childish part. For instance- the petitions to secede that were mentioned above. Those are nothing new in the US- they've come up frequently since the Civil War. But until these people can actually make their bids viable- and most have no idea how to do so- it's just so much foot stamping because someone didn't get their way.

 

hehe- glad to hear the loopy behavior during election season doesn't make all Americans look bad though. That one especially is one of the more...special cases, we'll say.

[Syaoransbear]

Residents In More Than A Dozen States Petition White House To Secede From United States

 

These are the States below

 

Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, California, Colorado, Delaware, Florida, Georgia, Indiana, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Michigan, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, New Jersey, New York, Nevada, North Carolina, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, Oregon, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas, Utah and Wyoming.

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/12/s...26pLid%3D233624

But those petitions don't mean anything. It says 'residents' want to secede. That could be just one guy(the petition maker) in the entire state wanting to secede, not the majority of residents in those states, and not anyone with power wanting to secede. I could make a petition to secede from Canada too but that doesn't mean the rest of my province supports that idea at all.

 

Those petitions and the insane reactions from people just make America seem incredibly intolerant and divided. That's what makes it look weak, not less military funding or presidents bowing to foreign leaders.

Edited November 13, 2012 by Syaoransbear

[TwilitProphet]

Residents In More Than A Dozen States Petition White House To Secede From United States

 

These are the States below

 

Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, California, Colorado, Delaware, Florida, Georgia, Indiana, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Michigan, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, New Jersey, New York, Nevada, North Carolina, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, Oregon, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas, Utah and Wyoming.

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/12/s...26pLid%3D233624

I've never been so ashamed to live in Indiana in all my life. Talk about a gross overreaction. I can't believe people here are that extreme in their hate of our President.

 

A lot of my family lives here, especially on my grandmother's side, and they don't want to secede. Even the ones who lean more republican than democrat.

 

I take this with a grain of salt.

[Fuzzbucket]

I've never been so ashamed to live in Indiana in all my life. Talk about a gross overreaction. I can't believe people here are that extreme in their hate of our President.

 

A lot of my family lives here, especially on my grandmother's side, and they don't want to secede. Even the ones who lean more republican than democrat.

 

I take this with a grain of salt.

Have my salt shaker. I remember when one of the English counties started a petition to secede.... Huge press coverage - and there were a total of 147 signatories, as I recall !

 

It's pretty much impossible. Currency ? Military ? Treaties ?

 

Even in the case of Scotland, which might just make it (though I doubt it) - they assume they will be able to use the pound, automatically be a member of the EU and the rest. the EU has already said they would have to apply like anyone else and might not qualify - but they don't seem to believe it...

[Vhale]

Speaking of football, can you imagine the cries of grief if Texas did leave the union and it's football team was no longer part of the nfl? Or it's other major teams? Oh, the crying would be heard around the world. As soon as I saw that petition I had to tease a friend of mine at work that is a massive sport nut, but also a conservative, that he'd better hope his Fantasy football league wrapped up before we left the union. He just looked disgusted and didn't say a word.

 

The internets being the internets, there's more than a few on Fark that signed the Texas one, because it's something of a joke to just kick Texas out of the union after Rick Perry threw his hissy fit threatening it years ago, then took stimulus money. So I know some of the digs on that one are trolls. But, an answering petition has been posted

 

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/d...merica/dmQl1bXL

Deport Everyone That Signed A Petition To Withdraw Their State From The United States Of America.

Edited November 13, 2012 by Vhale

[Fuzzbucket]

Well, yes. They can't really be American, can they Seriously - if you want to secede, that means you do not want to be a citizen of the country you are now in.

 

A bit convoluted - but...

[philpot123]

But those petitions don't mean anything. It says 'residents' want to secede. That could be just one guy(the petition maker) in the entire state wanting to secede, not the majority of residents in those states, and not anyone with power wanting to secede. I could make a petition to secede from Canada too but that doesn't mean the rest of my province supports that idea at all.

 

Those petitions and the insane reactions from people just make America seem incredibly intolerant and divided. That's what makes it look weak, not less military funding or presidents bowing to foreign leaders.

They're getting a decent amount of support though. The thing is, if you asked each and every person who is signing those petitions (including myself) if they actually want to secede, the answer would be no. Everyone in Tennessee knows we aren't self sufficient, and we can't be an island unto ourselves in the middle of the USA. The point is to make our voices heard so the government will know that we don't like what they're doing. This isn't just a "conservative" thing. It's a liberty issue.

 

 

Side note, little "Obamacare is of the devil" anecdote from my city. Local business owner employs 60 people. His competitor employs 35, so will not be forced to provide insurance. Employer A will either have to increase his prices/lower wages to maintain his already struggling profit margin, or he's going to have to lay off 11 people. If he increases his prices, he can't survive in this area because Employer B would eat up the chance to take his business, and has the ability to undercut him everywhere, and pay employees more.

 

^ True story. Universal healthcare is a worthy goal. I would love it if each and every person who needed medical care could get it. But this approach is going to be very detrimental, in the short run at least. Smallish businesses are taking a hit.

 

Well, yes. They can't really be American, can they Seriously - if you want to secede, that means you do not want to be a citizen of the country you are now in. A bit convoluted - but...

 

Accurate statement. But again, I doubt most armchair radicals signing those petitions actually want to secede. We just want the government to change.

Edited November 13, 2012 by philpot123

[CrossingStar]

I've never been so ashamed to live in Indiana in all my life. Talk about a gross overreaction. I can't believe people here are that extreme in their hate of our President.

I know how you feel. I looked at that list and was really shocked to see that Ohio was listed there O.o Talk about an overreaction! It's like the beginning of the Civil War all over again.

[MysticTiger]

I have to blame a lot of this hate on the political ads. It's sickening how many people watched those and BELIEVED EVERYTHING THEY SAID. For example, in my state, they're trying to build a second bridge to canada. The owner of the current bridge paid out billions of dollars trying to get this second bridge illegalized because he'd be losing profits if it was built. Every week I watched people repeat everything his commercials said like they were law, despite hundreds of reputable research sources saying that everything in his commercials are lies. He basically said that Michigan would have to pay for the bridge, when it's CANADA who is paying for it now and then taking all of the tolls to repay themselves.

 

The Romney commercials were sickening. The commercial with the little girl and how she's basically going to grow up to be poor because of Obama? Seriously? That was below the belt and unprofessional. Why don't you stick an elderly woman and have someone in an obama mask push her down the stairs, while you're at it?

 

I wish campaign ads were illegalized. People should have to learn about their candidates through research, not commercials.

 

(I have more to say on the subject, but I have to go to my horrible minimum wage torture job. American dream, yay.)

[Fuzzbucket]

I have to blame a lot of this hate on the political ads. It's sickening how many people watched those and BELIEVED EVERYTHING THEY SAID. For example, in my state, they're trying to build a second bridge to Canada. The owner of the current bridge paid out billions of dollars trying to get this second bridge illegalized because he'd be losing profits if it was built. Every week I watched people repeat everything his commercials said like they were law, despite hundreds of reputable research sources saying that everything in his commercials are lies. He basically said that Michigan would have to pay for the bridge, when it's CANADA who is paying for it now and then taking all of the tolls to repay themselves.

Yes indeed - one of the few good things Harper has come up with

[Kestra15]

Residents In More Than A Dozen States Petition White House To Secede From United States

 

These are the States below

 

Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, California, Colorado, Delaware, Florida, Georgia, Indiana, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Michigan, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, New Jersey, New York, Nevada, North Carolina, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, Oregon, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas, Utah and Wyoming.

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/12/s...26pLid%3D233624

I say go for it. Could be fun to watch.

[Walker]

I say go for it. Could be fun to watch.

Dang it. My state is on there. Can I secede from my state?

 

I still want to be a US citizen. So.

 

 

[Fuzzbucket]

Dang it. My state is on there. Can I secede from my state?

 

I still want to be a US citizen. So.

I saw a play once where someone fenced off his home and announced that he had seceded from his country...

 

Naturally it ended up with cops and an arrest....

[Kestra15]

Dang it. My state is on there. Can I secede from my state?

 

I still want to be a US citizen. So.

Secede to a more sensible state :~P

[Fuzzbucket]

That's not secession, that's emigration

[Vhale]

The fark threads have been humorous. If Texas secedes, that means they are illegals if they cross the border?

 

Rick Perry came out and made a statement that it's not going to happen. I suspect given his poor debate performance (oops) that he's in for a hell of a re-election campaign himself. His remarks about secession are going to be blanketing the airwaves for months. >.<

 

For those in other countries/states, fun Texas history.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_v._White

Texas v. White, 74 U.S. 700 (1869) was a significant case argued before the United States Supreme Court in 1869.[1] The case involved a claim by the Reconstruction government of Texas that United States bonds owned by Texas since 1850 had been illegally sold by the Confederate state legislature during the American Civil War. The state filed suit directly with the United States Supreme Court, which, under the United States Constitution, retains original jurisdiction on cases in which a state is a party.

 

In accepting original jurisdiction, the court ruled that Texas had remained a state ever since it first joined the Union, despite its joining the Confederate States of America and its being under military rule at the time of the decision in the case. In deciding the merits of the bond issue, the court further held that the Constitution did not permit states to unilaterally secede from the United States, and that the ordinances of secession, and all the acts of the legislatures within seceding states intended to give effect to such ordinances, were "absolutely null".[2]

[Walker]

Secede to a more sensible state :~P

I actually plan on it when I have the money and resources, but that probably won't be until after I graduate from college. I never planned to stay in Indiana though. It's natural values don't match mine and there's a state right next to me that's more open and accepting. I always figured I'd secede to Illinois eventually. If this somehow wildly actually turns out successful I guess I'll just have to speed up my succession plans.

 

I don't even know how that would work though, if they could force you to remain a citizen even if you didn't agree with their succession. WELL, I doubt I'll actually be thinking about that in any legitimate capacity anytime soon, but it's certain interesting to muse about.

Edited November 13, 2012 by Walker