American Politics

[Arctic]

Gonna use this as a sarcastic clapping image. Just because we already shot down the idea the US is going to suddenly collapse and China will take over.

You know, if we do crumble the result would be more akin to the USSR's collapse. China would not suddenly take over and we would not have to suddenly learn Chinese. In fact, many Chinese people know English. So do most European people. Saying that makes no sense. However, if you do manage to find some facts supporting it, I would love to see them.

 

Also, why China? I think it would be more likely for a nation closer to us to try to swoop in. They are an ocean away and it wouldn't work out too well to try and take us over. We're too large.

We owe a lot of money to China. Economically, they would steamroll us.

 

Not that they will. The U.S. economy is not crumbling any time soon. The ship's just started to turn back around.

[savage_rose]

I think you have to watch a lot more Fox news and listen to Ann Coulter/Rush Limbaugh to understand "why China". There's not really a logical train of thought with that

 

edited to add: in this economy, everyone owes a lot of money to everyone. It doesn't mean that a country is going to take over.

Edited November 7, 2012 by savage_rose

[Red2111]

pudding, two quotes come to mind when talking of communism and marxism.

 

"Socialism only works until you run out of other peoples money"

 

"Ultimate power corrupts ultimately"

 

our economic eyestem was note developed to thrive under a communistic or socalist governemtn model. this is why we were made a Republic.

 

i'm not going to pull the sources for you, go look at the labor bureaus website if you want to see this, its all there in black and white. start at Jan 2012 when Unemployment started to decline and see how the amoutn of jobs avialable and people looking for work began to decline. then look at the jobs claimed to have been added at the same time.

 

 

pudding, two quotes come to mind when talking of communism and marxism.

 

"Socialism only works until you run out of other peoples money"

 

"Ultimate power corrupts ultimately"

 

our economic eyestem was note developed to thrive under a communistic or socalist governemtn model. this is why we were made a Republic.

 

 

 

 

The US wont crumble. No reason to say that kind of thing.

depends on your definition of crumble. i sure dont see our country getting any better over the next 4 years now, we'll be lucky if it just stays the same as it is now.

 

 

btu then again, we know that atleast wont happen, becuse of Obamacare being a sure thing now. employers will be laying off more, because they wont be able to afford that hit they'll be taking & we're all getting a tax increase via that individual Mandate.

 

 

can you withstand a tax increase?? i know my income is already stretched as tight as i can, i dont know of much more i can cut budget wise.

 

 

and you think healthcare cost are high now. when they've steadily been increasing since Obamacare was passed. wait until 2014 when it takes full effect.

 

so yeah, in a way, i can see where Shuttle is comming from on that statement

 

 

 

 

The US wont crumble. No reason to say that kind of thing.

depends on your definition of crumble. i sure dont see our country getting any better over the next 4 years now, we'll be lucky if it just stays the same as it is now.

 

 

btu then again, we know that atleast wont happen, becuse of Obamacare being a sure thing now. employers will be laying off more, because they wont be able to afford that hit they'll be taking & we're all getting a tax increase via that individual Mandate.

 

 

can you withstand a tax increase?? i know my income is already stretched as tight as i can, i dont know of much more i can cut budget wise.

 

 

and you think healthcare cost are high now. when they've steadily been increasing since Obamacare was passed. wait until 2014 when it takes full effect.

 

so yeah, in a way, i can see where Shuttle is comming from on that statement

 

Obama has helped the unemployment rate drop. Getting people back on their feet and working should be the top priority for now.

 

Sorry I don't see how Mitt and his trickle down economics is going to help at all.

 

*jokes on her jack and coke*

 

scuze me, what?!

 

 

unemployment has only decreased because Jobs have LEFT the economy. lets also not rely on the U3 numbers to judge the presidents policys by, lets look more at the U6 which take into account those who've given up on finding a job and also are underemployed.

 

 

also, thos jobs added have mostly been either Federal government jobs, partime jobs or entry level jobs liek mcD's. they do not equate to the type of high paying jobs that have left our economy, liekly for good thanks to his re-election.

[pudding]

We owe a lot of money to China.  Economically, they would steamroll us.

 

Not that they will.  The U.S. economy is not crumbling any time soon.  The ship's just started to turn back around.

So does Japan.

China 1,153.6 billion dollars

Japan 1,121.5 billion dollars

There are some stats for you. So why not Japan? Because they aren't Communist, right? Because Communism is the root of all evil.

 

As for Communism, it is good at its core. Human nature gets in the way, like everything else. However, Capitalism is not good at its core. It is survival of the fittest with Capitalism. We are large enough that we don't have to live like that. It doesn't have to be you against the world. In fact, that is what gets you killed.

 

unemployment has only decreased because Jobs have LEFT the economy

 

Umm... what? Sorry, can you explain this to me? How does that decrease unemployment?

[Red2111]

I don't understand how anyone could have voted for Romney. He's a snake faced liar. If he made it to office, everyone could kiss their social security and health care goodbye, and women would need to get used to being paid less than men for the same job.

 

Thank goodness for Obama.

really, and Obamas not a two-faced hypocritcal liar?? are you really that blind??

 

 

 

kiss our SSI goodbye. i'm 27, WHAT SSI?? since Carter was in office we could all kiss any chance of seeing SSI good bye. its not a Romney thing, its a Washington thing. stop demagoguing and playing the party lines and wake up. you're being played by the institution if you dont realize both parties are equally at fault for SSI being bankrupt. stop being a sheeple.

 

 

kiss Healthcare goodbye ... geeze i didn't realize that no one could go to a hospital before Obamacare and get the healthcare they needed. or pay out of pocket to see a family physician and get meds ... so yeah, Romney gets elected we can kiss healthcare as a whole goodbye. so hospitals would close, doctors wouldn't have private practices, health clinics wouldn't be living free to low cost preventive medicine ... wow consider me enlightened stop with the democrat fear mongering and think for yourself. try turnign off MSNBC and researchign the issues yourself on multiple news sources online, including sites who have opposing view points than you own. you might actually educate yourself.

 

and i want proof that woman would be getting paid less under any romney plan. again, there you go with that fear mongering talking point that isn't factually backed up. aside from the fact that tbh the gender gap in wages is more fallacy than truth now, thansk to the womens rights movement in the 70s

 

 

So you're saying that Obama is still bad but Romney is worse?

 

 

 

The social security and health care thing is what scared me the most. My father needs that due to the hole in his leg that doesn't heal up and the amount of pain he is in he is unable to work. Without that and the money my mom had to borrow from my grandparents we would have lost our home under Bush. Romney is nothing but Bush all over again. It's just the same thing just different name.

 

you do realize it was Barney Frank that authored the legislation that caused the Housing crises correct? and that the plan was started under Clinton right. so blamming Bush, while he is at fault, is not entirely accurate.

 

also i disagree, romney atleast admitted he was Moderate and left leaning. he didn't pretend. bush OTOH was an idiot in sheeps clothing.

 

i agree that Forgien wise, the policies woudl have been similar, which is not the issue i took with Romney. i woudl much rather go back to countries hating and fearing American than what we have currently, whcih is our enemys not being afraid of us and getting into bed with the likes of HAMMAS and the Muslim Brotherhood and working WITH the Taliban in Afghanastan.

 

 

on the home from though, economically, i was more for Ron Paul guy was crazy when it came to foreign policy, but a genus for Domestic policy.

 

 

All politicians are bad, but Romney is especially so. When a presidential candidate blatantly announces that he doesn't care about 50% of the country, you ignore him and move on to someone else.

again you going off MSABCs reporting and not fact checking it.

 

 

again, nice job being nothing more than their mouth piece *slow golf clap*

 

Historically, from 1948 until 2012, the United States Unemployment Rate averaged 5.8 . Last month it was at 7.9. In January of last year it was up to 9.8 %. How do you figure that Obama has had a positive effect on unemployment?

 

My roommate has been trying to get a job for the last 3 years and has come up empty handed every time.

 

Obama promises the world and doesn't deliver a thing. Not that he is different from any other politician, but things have been pitiful and the idea that it's all Bush's fault is stupid. If you can't do anything positive in four years, then you don't need to be in office.

 

I like how Romeny took historically poor states. It seems that the poor people are tired of being lied to by Obama.

 

I didn't vote for Romeny; I voted against Obama.

 

^ this. though correction. in 2009 when Obamacare passed, Unemployment rate peaked at 10% (if memory serves aroudn October of that year)

 

 

He had to fight with congress and the senate which admitted they was more concerned making him a one term president than anything. How can you do much when you keep getting blocked all the time?

 

 

 

I agree. My father said that Clinton will go down as the best president in history as when he was in office the US progressed the most. (I may have his exact words wrong so forgive me on that). He worked with both sides as I understood it. I was only 2 when he was first elected so I don't know everything but back then nothing was all that bad. I didn't see that much trouble or any political nonsense like we got now.

 

 

 

He admitted things were going to get worse before they got better. You can't just wave a magic wand and make the recession stop when a new president gets elected.

his party had control of the House adn Sentate for 2 YEARS, his first 2 years in office. and the LAST 2 years under Bush. what did Obama do. NOTHING under bush excpet prepare to run as president in 08 adn focused on passing a social issue instead of turnign aroudnt he economy.

 

under his leadership Congress has FAILED to pass a budget in 3 years. the Republicans in the House have tried, only to have the senate vote it down and the president threaten to veto it if it did pass.

 

 

he isn't a leader and he has no qualifications to assume he is one. this man couldn't even run a McDonalds even if it was the only fast food joint in a 50 mil radius.

 

 

Clinton, i recall little of his presidency, i was more concerned with playing outside and watching Nickelodeon when that channel actually had good crap on it. but dont discount the fact that things got accompished under Clinton when the opposite party had control of the House and Senate and forced him to work across party lines. Obama refuses to do this, instead he tells Republicans to "sit in the back of the bus". also, the boom of the 90's was iinspite of Washington. it was thanks to the .Com bubble, whcih busted in late 2000 starting the economic downward trend that we see bottoming out today. so Clinton gets more priase for the 90's than he really should imo.

 

and admitting we have to get worse before we get better. yeah righ before he goes on to say "But i inherited this mess" i'm tiered of hearing it was Bushes fault, especially from a man who was senator for 2 years and did nothing while in the senate.

 

we were supposedly in just a bad a state when Regan took over from Carter, and the USA was seeing growth economically within 2 years. theres no excuse, especially not for him to still be blaming Bush after 4 years. his policies and Keynesian economics are failures. he needs to grow a pair and own up to it. he wont though, cause hes a narcissist.

 

 

[demonicvampiregirl]

Obama is not MY PRESIDENT PERIOD, never has been,

 

The USA as you know it now, will not be the same. Socialism and Communism will be your destiny.

 

So glad the rest of you are happy.

 

Congratulations,

 

Congrats to all of you that wanted Marijuana Legalized, watch crime and all that goes along with it come true and be your nightmare.

 

Hope you have enough fire arms to keep you safe,

 

Ignorance is BLISS, just my personal opinon, I do hope I am wrong.

This is the kind of thing I don't get.

 

Where is all your proof? Where is the facts? You throw communism around and socialism around each post you make but make no effort to back these claims at all. I'd like some proof that the US is suddenly going to go bad.

[~Kat~]

So Sad that the MOTTO is live and let live. Lets accept everything that people want to do period. Drugs, sex, no god, socilalism, communism, welfare, have kids out of wedlock, welfare again, abortion, pay for all of your ailaments, hand outs by the government, accept same sex marriages, poor people that love hand outs, no oil, coal etc, etc. Lets not forget the ILLEAGAL IMMAGRANTS, jeez, don't ya love them. Does not matter where you are from, we will give you a job ... but ... SOME AMERICANS CAN NOT GET A JOB, because you are an ALIEN, I love it,

 

I truly hope those that believe in Obama, suffer more than us that do not. God bless those that believe in God, and that are rich SURVIVE. In the end, AMERICA WILL COME BACK.

 

I am listening to Obam's speech about the Military, what garbarge.

 

Children that need the same fair chance at education ...Well excuse me, every child has that chance. Immigrants that are here ILLEGALLY, need to be kicked out PERIOD. Those that are already here, are keeping the illegals out, but that is ok, with most of ya'll .....right.

 

Obama did not EARN my VOTE. He is talking about the Military blah blah blah, wow this is new. I HAVE NO PRESDIENT.

 

I PRAY FROM THE BOTTOM OF MY HEART, THE PEOPLE THAT VOTED FOR OBAMA, GET, EVERYTHING YOU DESERVE AND THEN SOME.

 

God Bless

 

 

 

 

[Haloclimb]

Obama is not MY PRESIDENT PERIOD,  never has been,

 

The USA as you know it now, will not be the same. Socialism and Communism will be your destiny.

 

So glad the rest of you are happy.

 

Congratulations, 

 

Congrats to all of you that wanted Marijuana Legalized, watch crime and all that goes along with it come true and be your nightmare.

 

Hope you have enough fire arms to keep you safe, 

 

Ignorance is BLISS, just my personal opinon, I do hope I am wrong.

Good, if America becomes more socialist you can join the rest of the developed world. I mean, capitalism has obviously worked so well for you guys! That global financial meltdown sure was fun to go through!

 

And I like how you obviously don't understand how countries like the Netherlands and Switzerland haven't devolved into pits of crime by decriminalizing marijuana.

Here's a hint: By legalising marijuana and then TIGHTLY REGULATING THE INDUSTRY you suddenly don't have dealers selling weed behind schools any more, because you can go into a shop and buy a legally made, small amount that is FDA regulated! You also don't have thousands of people flung into prison, destroying their lives, for having a few grams of the drug at home for their own personal use!

As the Prohibition quite clearly showed, banning a popular item does not make it 'dissapear', it just forms the perfect niche for a black market to spring up around it.

 

I cannot wait to see america carry on the slow path to recovery. I can't wait to see crime rates drop because instead of going after collage students who have a few grams at home, they can go after the real criminals and the REAL drug pushers! You know, the people who sell cocaine and heroin and who are heavily involved in drug trafficking and all the lovely things that go along with it like slavery and gun smuggling. Heck, you'll be able to lessen the load on your prison system too, and have the space again to hold -actual criminals!-

 

But mostly, I'm thrilled that every other country in the world isn't going to have to try and pander to Romneys outdated beliefs just to stay in americas good books. I'm not going to have to see Julia Gillard announce 'lol sorry we're going back to war' because Romney wanted to go back in and fight some more 'terrorists'.

 

 

EDIT: Oh, and I'm also going to be over the moon that I'm not going to have to listen to someone shoving their religion down my throat everytime america comes up. I'm sure that your god is really glad that you are praying to him to get him to exact some form of twisted 'revenge' on people who DARED to have different opinions than you. Really shows what great christians you are!

Edited November 7, 2012 by Haloclimb

[Syaoransbear]

Obama is not MY PRESIDENT PERIOD, never has been,

 

The USA as you know it now, will not be the same. Socialism and Communism will be your destiny.

 

So glad the rest of you are happy.

 

Congratulations,

 

Congrats to all of you that wanted Marijuana Legalized, watch crime and all that goes along with it come true and be your nightmare.

 

Hope you have enough fire arms to keep you safe,

 

Ignorance is BLISS, just my personal opinon, I do hope I am wrong.

I'm getting tired of people being like "Obama isn't my president" then later complaining and being like "He didn't make any progress!" How is he supposed to make progress if you don't support anything he does and even go so far as to denounce him as your president? Sorry, but he is your president. Keep voting for crazy right wing extremists and the next time you badmouth the president you'll be hanged for treason.

 

Plus, what does a president do anyway besides veto or pass stuff? If it doesn't make it to the president, how is that his fault?

[hazeh]

So Sad that the MOTTO is live and let live. Lets accept everything that people want to do period. Drugs, sex, no god, socilalism, communism, welfare, have kids out of wedlock, welfare again, abortion, pay for all of your ailaments, hand outs by the government, accept same sex marriages, poor people that love hand outs, no oil, coal etc, etc. Lets not forget the ILLEAGAL IMMAGRANTS, jeez, don't ya love them. Does not matter where you are from, we will give you a job ... but ... SOME AMERICANS CAN NOT GET A JOB, because you are an ALIEN,  I love it, 

 

I truly hope those that believe in Obama, suffer more than us that do not. God bless those that believe in God, and that are rich SURVIVE. In the end, AMERICA WILL COME BACK.

 

I am listening to Obam's speech about the Military, what garbarge.

 

Children that need the same fair chance at education ...Well excuse me, every child has that chance. Immigrants that are here ILLEGALLY, need to be kicked out PERIOD. Those that are already here, are keeping the illegals out, but that is ok, with most of ya'll .....right.

 

Obama did not EARN my VOTE. He is talking about the Military blah blah blah, wow this is new. I HAVE NO PRESDIENT.

 

I PRAY FROM THE BOTTOM OF MY HEART, THE PEOPLE  THAT VOTED FOR OBAMA, GET, EVERYTHING YOU DESERVE AND THEN SOME.

 

God Bless

You know Kat, I've seen you write some shocking things, but this certainly takes the cake.

 

I honestly cannot believe I just read that from someone who claims to be a god-believing woman.

 

 

Thanks for insulting a vast majority of us users here, the Non-Christians, the people who didn't have an opportunity for good education, the people that can't afford their healthcare because of whatever reason, the people who work three or more jobs just to stay alive, and the people that actually care about others. Thanks a lot.

 

 

Edit: I hope everyone with American-citizen friends that can't get jobs are eagerly picking up jobs in janitorial positions, strawberry-picking fields, sewage sites, etc. Oh wait, or were you expecting some high-end job at a fancy restaurant? Did you think that the only jobs worthy of your name were in stores and dining places? I don't see any Americans scrambling for the jobs that the majority of illegal immigrants are picking up.

Edited November 7, 2012 by Shiny Hazard Sign

[demonicvampiregirl]

So Sad that the MOTTO is live and let live. Lets accept everything that people want to do period. Drugs, sex, no god, socilalism, communism, welfare, have kids out of wedlock, welfare again, abortion, pay for all of your ailaments, hand outs by the government, accept same sex marriages, poor people that love hand outs, no oil, coal etc, etc. Lets not forget the ILLEAGAL IMMAGRANTS, jeez, don't ya love them. Does not matter where you are from, we will give you a job ... but ... SOME AMERICANS CAN NOT GET A JOB, because you are an ALIEN,  I love it, 

 

I truly hope those that believe in Obama, suffer more than us that do not. God bless those that believe in God, and that are rich SURVIVE. In the end, AMERICA WILL COME BACK.

 

I am listening to Obam's speech about the Military, what garbarge.

 

Children that need the same fair chance at education ...Well excuse me, every child has that chance. Immigrants that are here ILLEGALLY, need to be kicked out PERIOD. Those that are already here, are keeping the illegals out, but that is ok, with most of ya'll .....right.

 

Obama did not EARN my VOTE. He is talking about the Military blah blah blah, wow this is new. I HAVE NO PRESDIENT.

 

I PRAY FROM THE BOTTOM OF MY HEART, THE PEOPLE  THAT VOTED FOR OBAMA, GET, EVERYTHING YOU DESERVE AND THEN SOME.

 

God Bless

I don't do drugs.

 

I am a proud 21 year old virgin.

 

I do not believe in god.

 

I do believe in same sex marriage because straight people are not more privileged than any homosexual couple. If they can't have the same basic rights and freedoms that I do I don't deserve them either.

 

I been on Welfare it is not bad.

 

Who cares if people have kids out of wedlock what people to in the privacy of their own homes and in there lives has nothing to do with me at all.

 

I am pro-choice and will not budge on that issue. (I say this because of reasons but I also believe that until I have the kid and I am not supporting it's own life it is not "alive" in the sense it can do what it wants on it's own.)

 

Poor people need the hand outs, I know I been there.

 

Oil and coal need replacing due to the increasing pollution and lack of indefinite resources for it.

 

We do not need a strong military in the sense that we can use it to abuse and control other nations where we don't belong in in the first place.

 

I doubt I will suffer because I support Obama. Those who would have been under Mitt Romneys tyranny would have. Those trickle down economics that Bush had put in place did not work the first time why repeat those same mistakes?

 

I do agree with kicking illegal immigrants out. They should have been when found out.

 

I have a president even if it was Mitt Romney that was voted in even when Bush was president he still was president and I could not say other wise. Neither should you. You say you are a proud American, act like one please. Don't start turning your back on your President. Give him a chance he just got re-elected these 4 years could be very different from the last.

 

Also this is not the type of post you'd see from a god loving person. I know one who listens to the bible and actually does what it teaches. She supports gay marriage, she believes in science, she does not wish harm or any suffering to others, she is open to everyone. THAT is what Christianity is about. Not what you just did and that is the reason I don't believe in religion.

Edited November 7, 2012 by demonicvampiregirl

[Red2111]

So does Japan.

China 1,153.6 billion dollars

Japan 1,121.5 billion dollars

There are some stats for you. So why not Japan? Because they aren't Communist, right? Because Communism is the root of all evil.

 

As for Communism, it is good at its core. Human nature gets in the way, like everything else. However, Capitalism is not good at its core. It is survival of the fittest with Capitalism. We are large enough that we don't have to live like that. It doesn't have to be you against the world. In fact, that is what gets you killed.

 

 

 

Umm... what? Sorry, can you explain this to me? How does that decrease unemployment?

survival of the fittest is the best way to thrive as an organism. whether its int he wild kingdom or in an economic cycle.

 

 

it weeds out the sick and weak, allows the stronger organisms to survive and pass on their genes and allows the gene pool to be stronger. it also ensures the survival of the species - in nature.

 

economically speaking, it weeds out companies that weaken our economy and society. it also places the power in the hands of the consumer, as we dictate through purchasing power what goods and services are important, not some government or board of supreme rulers. the capitalistic model also has a shelf check to keep it healthy. it has a natural ballance via the Supply/Demand modle which dictates prices.

 

supply ^ but Demand V then prices V. which means Demand will V because less profit can be made and less people go into that business.

 

 

in reverse. Demand ^ but Supply V = Price ^ which means that more people will enter into that business which causes Supply ^ and Price V.

 

 

its very simplistic economics, have yo not taken a intro to economics class?? if not, you really should, macro and micro are good as well. will give you a much better understanding on why Capitalism is such a good economic model.

 

 

 

and also, its because of Humane nature that Communism and Socialism will always fail. you cant discount it and the evils of human nature and the ultimate scenario fo tyranny and oppression from Socialism and Communism are not less or better than the small evils of Capitalism, which can be contained with proper regulation and a good society with person responsibility.

 

 

 

 

again, with the unemployment issue, you need to have taken an econmics class to understand this.

 

many factors go into determining the Unemployment numbers

 

A - Jobs available in the economy

B - under employed

C - people out of work, but looking for work

D - people employed

E - people out of work and not looking for work

 

are among the top factors. you should also note that there are two different numbers the U3 which only compares those employed versus those not employed and ignores group E completely

 

and the U6 which is the true unemployment and analyzes each group separately.

 

 

if any of the groups change, then the ultimate outcome is equally effected. explaing how the jobs no longer available effects the numbers is easiest explain using a Cherry pie.

 

 

you have two cherry pies that you want to bake. both pies use the same size dish for baking, but Pie A you use a 16ounce can of pie filling and in Pie B you use a 14 ounce can of pie filling.

 

the cans of pie filling represent the amount of jobs available in the economy.

 

 

now you bake the pies, and when they cool you cut them into 8 equally sized slices. however, even though the pieces of the pie are the same size, Pie A will have a bigger slice because theres more filling.

 

so you see, the amount of people looking for work is the same for both pies (pie dish) but because one has less filling than the other, your pieces (% of unemployed) appear different. Pie B's slice will appear smaller than Pie A's

[Obscure_Trash]

I know that the election has a lot of us riled up and many emotions are probably running high right now, both high and low emotions. This is not an excuse to attack each other, call each other names, wish ill on each other, or tell each other off, though. This is a debate and discussion thread. Since I will be popping off to bed in just one moment, I am going to go ahead and close this thread until myself or another mod is around to keep an eye on it.

 

Please find another outlet (not another thread here) for your political frustration or excitement until the thread is re-opened.

 

~Sock

Edited November 7, 2012 by SockPuppet Strangler

[kiffren]

Opening this thread back up. Remember to remain calm and keep from attacking each other. This is a discussion not an argument. Being polite and civil goes a long ways. ^^

[CrossingStar]

Opening this thread back up. Remember to remain calm and keep from attacking each other. This is a discussion not an argument. Being polite and civil goes a long ways. ^^

Glad to oblige, m'dear! Thanks for opening this place back up. *blows dust off thread*

[~Kat~]

Companies are finding legal ways to only keep part time workers to skirt the law as they are putting it. Olive Garden and Red Lobster are also keeping mostly part time workers as well.

 

People are talking about boycotting, but to many people like these places to eat, so I really do not think it is going to hurt them. I know I will still eat at all of these places. I also tip well if the service is good.

 

It is sad the employees that are being cut in hours will have less income, pay less taxes, and still have to pay the healthcare penalty tax, while applying for food stamps to help with their day to day living. The people that have good jobs and the rich I guess will have to pay for other people's coverage, which is not fair. Socialism, is not best for this country as people will start to see down the road perhaps. Anyone not buying their own insurance will pay a fine coming out of their tax refunds. Obamacare could bankrupt the USA in the long run, I hope not.

 

A lot of our diseases we have could be prevented. Obesity, alcohol abuse, drug abuse, smoking, eating fast foods that are mostly fried causes heart problems, diabetes, cancer, stroke, and the list goes on. All of these bad choices drive up the cost of health care for everybody. I know I have been taking better care of myself for a while now.

 

Here are some companies below laying off workers because of Obama's ... Obamacare

 

Murray Energy Corporation Annouces Layoff

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/09/m...26pLid%3D232844

 

Papa John's to Reduce Worker's because of Obamare

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/09/p...26pLid%3D232844

 

Applebee's wont hire because of Obamacare

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/09/z...26pLid%3D232766

[ShinyTomato]

If you are such a shallow American that you will disrespect the duly elected leader of our country because you don't like his policies, than you're not very patriotic. I never liked president Bush, but while he was in office I stayed respectful, because he was the duly elected leader of my country, and it was my duty as an American, to support this country, and by extension, at least recognise his authority and his position as my president.

 

I never spoke of Bush the way some people speak of Obama, even when his policies were actively taking away my rights, and putting me and my family in danger. You can register disagreement and debate without acting like children throwing a tantrum -- and too many political pundits don't seem to realise this.

 

Maybe it's just because I have a brother in the military, but even if I don't always like the system, I was taught to respect the results of the will of the people. When Republicans signed conscience laws that meant doctors could refuse to treat me because of my race, I didn't stomp my foot, I tried to change it by working through the system.

 

When the voters passed Prop 8, cancelling my wedding, yes I was upset, yes I cried, but I never wished harm on them. I never prayed for them to suffer. Instead, I worked to educate and change minds, and prayed that G-d would see fit to extend civil rights to everyone, and voted for people whose views I supported.

 

You can't truly love this country, can't truly support this country, and denigrate it's citizens and the systems that the founders put into place to begin with when they abandoned the communistic principals of Plymouth Plantation and then the British kings.

[High Lord November]

I can't really comment on Obamacare, but up here in Canada our Healthcare system is pretty good (as far as I know) (well, my father got open-heart surgery and a valve replacement, and we didn't have to pay a penny for it until it came to medication and room - down in the States, I'm sure it would have cost us a litteral fortune). Going in the direction a-la-national healthcare really doesn't seem like a bad step. Although I'm really not too sure on the facts about OC, so...

 

A lot of our diseases we have could be prevented. Obesity, alcohol abuse, drug abuse, smoking, eating fast foods that are mostly fried causes heart problems, diabetes, cancer, stroke, and the list goes on. All of these bad choices drive up the cost of health care for everybody. I know I have been taking better care of myself for a while now.

 

That's a person-problem, not an Obamacare-problem. It really depends on if the person wants to make healthy choices or not. And unfortunately for us, most people either half-sorta-try-but-doesn't-really-succeed in getting themselves away/fit/etc., or don't care, or don't have the money to go in for rehab. Not to mention, fast-food is cheap, easy, fast, and appeals to our tastes - and exercising, in comparison, takes work, time, and dedication. And then there are the budget differences...

[brairtrainer]

I can't really comment on Obamacare, but up here in Canada our Healthcare system is pretty good (as far as I know) (well, my father got open-heart surgery and a valve replacement, and we didn't have to pay a penny for it until it came to medication and room - down in the States, I'm sure it would have cost us a litteral fortune). Going in the direction a-la-national healthcare really doesn't seem like a bad step. Although I'm really not too sure on the facts about OC, so...

 

 

 

That's a person-problem, not an Obamacare-problem. It really depends on if the person wants to make healthy choices or not. And unfortunately for us, most people either half-sorta-try-but-doesn't-really-succeed in getting themselves away/fit/etc., or don't care, or don't have the money to go in for rehab. Not to mention, fast-food is cheap, easy, fast, and appeals to our tastes - and exercising, in comparison, takes work, time, and dedication. And then there are the budget differences...

While I didn't support the obama care bill I do say there needs to be a safety net of some sort (obamacare doesn't do enough in some cases and it others it does too much) what I really think is we need a redoing of medicare and medicade and have it based on whether or not insurence is offered for you through your company, and if insurence is offered thourgh your company it should be optional to a government plan that is cheaper for the individual but covers all health care neseities that medicade and medicare cover.

 

Also don't just blame people for makeing bad choices, sure they are making themselves obease but the laws that limit anything other than transfats in food is already causeing me some strife.

 

I have low blood pressure, its genetic from my dad's grandmother's side. I have not found a doctor who is willing to write me a prescription of salt pills because of my age and the fact that I am not huge athelete or spending my time running a lot. My school has been cutting how much salt shows up in food leaving me with times of dizzyness, and I fainted because of the condition when I was in high school.

 

Really what we need is to start educating why we need things (salt is needed for electorlyte balance) and what is bad about having too much or too little, like people are finally doing with carbs. If we see everything as moderation it becomes a little bit easier to make good chioces, especially when you need something specific.

[~Kat~]

If you are such a shallow American that you will disrespect the duly elected leader of our country because you don't like his policies, than you're not very patriotic. I never liked president Bush, but while he was in office I stayed respectful, because he was the duly elected leader of my country, and it was my duty as an American, to support this country, and by extension, at least recognise his authority and his position as my president.

 

I never spoke of Bush the way some people speak of Obama, even when his policies were actively taking away my rights, and putting me and my family in danger. You can register disagreement and debate without acting like children throwing a tantrum -- and too many political pundits don't seem to realise this.

 

Maybe it's just because I have a brother in the military, but even if I don't always like the system, I was taught to respect the results of the will of the people. When Republicans signed conscience laws that meant doctors could refuse to treat me because of my race, I didn't stomp my foot, I tried to change it by working through the system.

 

When the voters passed Prop 8, cancelling my wedding, yes I was upset, yes I cried, but I never wished harm on them. I never prayed for them to suffer. Instead, I worked to educate and change minds, and prayed that G-d would see fit to extend civil rights to everyone, and voted for people whose views I supported.

 

You can't truly love this country, can't truly support this country, and denigrate it's citizens and the systems that the founders put into place to begin with when they abandoned the communistic principals of Plymouth Plantation and then the British kings.

Just because someone is elected does not mean you have to agree with all the policies they believe in. Those I voted for, I don't agree with all of their policies. I do not feel it does not mean you are not patriotic at all. Look at all of those that voted republican, they did not agree with Obama's policies, but these are still patriotic people. I still support the USA, and hope that down the road, change and hope comes my way next time, only time will tell. I do love my country that is for sure.

 

I have sons in the military, one has done two tours and will probably do another if it comes up. He did not always respect those that had command over him, because they were cheating on their spouses and doing other things that were not right, but yes he obeyed the orders. He still supports this country and is very patriotic.

 

I am sorry some things have not gone your way.

 

I agree with you when you say, you prayed that God would see fit to extend civil rights to everyone.

 

 

Yes, our founding forefathers, principals this country was founded on, certainly are taking different avenues that is for sure. I often wonder what they would have to say about it all.

 

 

[High Lord November]

While I didn't support the obama care bill I do say there needs to be a safety net of some sort (obamacare doesn't do enough in some cases and it others it does too much) what I really think is we need a redoing of medicare and medicade and have it based on whether or not insurence is offered for you through your company, and if insurence is offered thourgh your company it should be optional to a government plan that is cheaper for the individual but covers all health care neseities that medicade and medicare cover.

 

Also don't just blame people for makeing bad choices, sure they are making themselves obease but the laws that limit anything other than transfats in food is already causeing me some strife.

 

I have low blood pressure, its genetic from my dad's grandmother's side. I have not found a doctor who is willing to write me a prescription of salt pills because of my age and the fact that I am not huge athelete or spending my time running a lot. My school has been cutting how much salt shows up in food leaving me with times of dizzyness, and I fainted because of the condition when I was in high school.

 

Really what we need is to start educating why we need things (salt is needed for electorlyte balance) and what is bad about having too much or too little, like people are finally doing with carbs. If we see everything as moderation it becomes a little bit easier to make good chioces, especially when you need something specific.

Ah, OK. Again, I'm not entirely sure on the effects of Obamacare, so I can't really comment.

 

Oh, I didn't want to blame them (it did come off that way, though). I've semi-been in that situation myself - and going from almost no exercise to even getting in half an hour every day is difficult (it was for me, at least), and if you aren't really dedicated to doing it, you won't really get too far (alternatively, you'll just go back to the way you were before). Not to mention, there are temptations all around you.

 

I full-heartedly agree with the necessity of education - this should be part of school, and the information should be advertised more (then again, that means that there are problems with budgets - fast food companies have so many more resources and money that they can put forward to advertise their food.)

[Violletta]

Well, I didn't want Obama to win, and I didn't want Romney to win, I still would have wanted Romney to win anyway. But the election is over and Obama is the president still so oh well. I'll acknowledge it.

 

I just still getting into politics because I found a strong passion in it. So I think that's why I've been following the thread so much. So, why don't people educate me on their views? I'd love to hear arguments from both sides of the political spectrum. I have my views though, and I won't come out with them yet, but I just want to know some of the arguments that are out there to be against certain things or are pro on another policy, or whatever.

 

To be honest, I view myself believing in a lot of Democratic views, but disagree with some big ones and have a more conservative leaning toward it the situations.

 

I have a question though, since I don't exactly know, how is the homosexual community being denied their rights other than the obvious being denied marriage issue (which by the way, I fully believe in marriage for everyone. So don't think I don't support it because I do.)

[brairtrainer]

Again, fast food companies don't need to be punished for being succsessful, what is needed is for there to be a way to encourge people to eat better, and for fast food companies to star offering better options. When there was a call for salads several fast food places obliged, but to make sure they would sell they added a lot too them that made them carb heavy but not nutritionally healthy. I'm a fan of eat this not that because the guy who writes it is smart about it and gives you reasons somthing is better, so if he recomends KFC's potato wedges over burger kings on sodium alone I know to not listen to that statement.

 

We don't need the government legeslating what we can and cannot eat, what we need is a safety net that allows people who want private insurence to get it and people who just want or need basic insurence can get it. It will change the game where private insurence companies will then have to compete to who offers the best service and if they aren't good enough or cover enough they will fail

[ShinyTomato]

Just because someone is elected does not mean you have to agree with all the policies they believe in.

 

I never said it did. I said you owe them respect as the duly elected leader, not unilateral support of their policies.

 

I do not feel it does not mean you are not patriotic at all.

 

How can you call yourself patriotic when you're saying HE'S NOT MY PRESIDENT and wishing ill on the majority of the American people?

 

Look at all of those that voted republican, they did not agree with Obama's policies, but these are still patriotic people.

 

I didn't say they weren't. I said some are acting in an unpatriotic manner.

 

I still support the USA, and hope that down the road, change and hope comes my way next time, only time will tell. I do love my country that is for sure.

 

Then speak like you love your country. Not like this

 

I truly hope those that believe in Obama, suffer more than us that do not. God bless those that believe in God, and that are rich SURVIVE. In the end, AMERICA WILL COME BACK.

 

Saying that our country is somehow gone, or disrespecting our Commander in Chief of the military by claiming his words about the military are garbage. That's not loving your country. That's ignoring what our country stands for because you don't agree with who OUR COUNTRY elected, fairly.

 

He did not always respect those that had command over him, because they were cheating on their spouses and doing other things that were not right, but yes he obeyed the orders. He still supports this country and is very patriotic.

 

You don't have to respect the person, you have to respect the OFFICE they were elected to, by showing them the RESPECT that office demands. Doing otherwise does make you unpatriotic, and in the military would get you written up as insubordinate.

 

Yes, our founding forefathers, principals this country was founded on, certainly are taking different avenues that is for sure. I often wonder what they would have to say about it all.

 

So do I. Interestingly, we come from opposite ends of the spectrum, because I can't think they'd be proud of what we had with the highest cost for health care in the world prior to so called "ObamaCare", and 37th in the world as far as effectiveness, with 44,800 excess deaths happening every year because of a lack of insurance.

 

Edited November 10, 2012 by ShinyTomato

[Violletta]

Uhh, ShinyTomato, I do have to say, Kat was speaking on the date of the election is you haven't noticed the dates and times she posted while in the thread. Election is a time of high frustration and emotions. I don't think you should hold her accountable to that. I know I cried a little when Romney lost and went to bed earlier than I would normally because I was so stressed. Besides, today is November 10th, and the election is done and over with.

 

Edit: Day after, my bad. Although it wasn't long after the 6th, soo...

Edited November 10, 2012 by Violletta