American Politics

[demonicvampiregirl]

You are right, it is society, such as the younger generation, which I will not go into any further, and Obama that has gone right along with a lot of what the younger generation wants to get elected, which has to do with traditional moral and values that this country was founded on.

 

Not only that, Illegal Mexicans that are here and that makes them a criminal, but yet they can stay. Now, I am I wrong on this? I am complaining on this matter with the Illegals. This is not right.

 

There is a lot wrong with this country in different ways, that the citizens have not had to deal with under Obama.

 

Please remember I am just answering your question, I have yet to complain since this thread was closed down except about the Illegals being here, or at least I have done it respectfully.

I agree that illegal aliens should be deported. There is no doubt about that.

 

The younger generation is what is going to make America progress or not. You can't alienate them from voting, belittle their opinions, or force them to change their view points to stick to the old ways.

 

Telling them they are wrong for their own opinions is just sad and very rude. They have their own opinions and morals and we cannot force them not to have them and make them drones who do what the older generations tell them.

 

The old values of this country should be dead by now. Those are old, out dated and are shown throughout the world to be wrong.

 

If we still lived like that you would not have any of the rights you hold dear to you. Humans would be enslaving each other still.

 

I could not live here with how those times were. I do not like being told that a man can have say over anything I do with my own body at all period. I wouldn't let them. I don't get how they can say if we can get abortions or not at all. It isn't up to them in my opinion.

 

Gay marriage should be legalized and they should have all rights like any other person. Using the bible (or any religion) to argue against that is the weakest argument I have ever heard. Religion has nothing to do with a persons love for another or happiness. It has no place there. How can straight people say they have more privileges and rights than anyone else because they like the opposite gender? How is that right by any standard. What happened to "liberty and justice for all"?

 

If you are singling out any person whether it's by age, race, sexuality that isn't for all. That is only for select people.

 

One person whether it's the president or not can't change the values and morals of an entire nation. Everyone changes it and some of the older generations just can't seem to let go.

 

Sorry for the rant but it get's old that people just point the finger of blame at Obama for everything whether he was there or not. He can't force you to change your morals and values. That isn't his job and he wont do it as that will be going against our constitutional rights.

Edited November 11, 2012 by demonicvampiregirl

[Duysterwald]

You are right, it is society, such as the younger generation, which I will not go into any further, and Obama that has gone right along with a lot of what the younger generation wants to get elected, which has to do with traditional moral and values that this country was founded on.

You seem to be making a statement that the younger generation is responsible for something... a something that you seem to imply is not good. You claim that President Obama is mostly following that what the younger generation wants. Would you care to specify exactly what it is that the younger generation wants, in your eyes? Also, what part have the younger generation in ever-changing society, in your eyes? Yes, I know you said that you did not want to go into that any further, but honestly, if one makes a claim about something, one should always back it up with arguments or otherwise expand on it... otherwise it is just that, an empty claim that has no real value for a discussion (and thus, one would have been best off not making the claim at all in the first place).

 

The younger generation is the future, by the way. They will inherit the country and the earth and have to make do with it in the state that we left it to them. In that sense, President Obama is certainly wise to consider the needs and feelings of the younger generation, because that is what is best for the long run (as the young people will be around far longer and will thus have greater impact on shaping the country further and preparing it for the future). If he solely focused on the needs of the older generation (which would be for the short run, because they will not be around as long as the younger generation and will overall have less influence on shaping the country's future) overall progress would be stunted as it would concentrate on blindly keeping things the way they are (i.e. a standstill). Akin to keeping one's eyes tightly shut and putting one's fingers in one's ears. Primarily and constantly pandering to the older generation would be like trying to keep the Titanic afloat, because one can't stop change and progress from happening... no matter how afraid one is of it - change and progress will always find a way in the end.

 

Also, when accusing the younger generation of something, keep in mind that your own generation hasn't exactly been a saint, either. Also, when you were a young twenty-something, I am sure that many people who were of the same age as you are now, must have viewed your generation with disdain. For example, they probably took you all for pot-smokers and all of those things that "hippie culture" was disliked for by the elders in the '60s. Just an example that it's not new that older generations view the younger generations with weariness at best. But what the older generations always seem to forget, is that they had a hand in shaping the younger generation, because they gave birth to them, raised them and taught them. It's not like the younger generation poofed into existence all on their own while the older generation had nothing to do whatsoever with the way they are. The older generation like to "wash their hands in innocence", but they are not innocent - they are at least partially responsible for the way the younger generation is. The older generation created the environment (and opportunities) in the first place for the younger generation to become what they are. Apart from all that, I don't think the younger generation make up the greatest part of nowadays' population and society - if I am not mistaken, the babyboomer generation does. So I don't think it's even justified to apparently put the majority of the blame for nowadays' state of society on the younger generation's shoulders.... it's the babyboomer generation that has had the biggest influence on society since at least the '60s onwards. So if you're going to look for blame, start there first.

Edited November 11, 2012 by Duysterwald

[~Kat~]

I agree that illegal aliens should be deported. There is no doubt about that.

 

The younger generation is what is going to make America progress or not. You can't alienate them from voting, belittle their opinions, or force them to change their view points to stick to the old ways.

 

Telling them they are wrong for their own opinions is just sad and very rude. They have their own opinions and morals and we cannot force them not to have them and make them drones who do what the older generations tell them.

 

The old values of this country should be dead by now. Those are old, out dated and are shown throughout the world to be wrong.

 

Sorry for the rant but it get's old that people just point the finger of blame at Obama for everything whether he was there or not. He can't force you to change your morals and values. That isn't his job and he wont do it as that will be going against our constitutional rights.

You are right about the younger generation going to make America progress or not.

 

I am not saying the younger generation is rude on a whole, but to a certain degree they are, as some have not been taught to respect their elders, or to behave in school.

 

I do disagree with you when you say "The old values of this country should be dead by now. Those are old, out dated and are shown throughout the world to be wrong".

 

I do not care what the rest of the world thinks, this is America. I do not keep up with the Smith's and the Jones's, let alone what Afghanastan thinks.

 

My kids are 24 and 25. One is in law enforcement and the other has done two tours fighting for our freedom, or what ever any of you want to call it. Also the one in the Military is also in law enforcement now, but if called to go back overseas to fight, he will be on the next flight out. God Bless my children, I am so proud of them.

 

Both my sons say, Yes Mam, Yes Sir, let old people take their seat, they believe in a higher being, such as God, respect their elders. My sons have no problem with people who are not hetrosexual, but they do have a problem with people who have sex and that do not use birth control and then want an abortion. They disrespect people who do not take responsibility for thier actions in the USA no matter what it is. You have to understand the types of people the deal with.

 

No need to be sorry, you are not ranting, this is how you feel, and you are entitled to it.

[Kishing]

traditional moral and values that this country was founded on.

Been lurking on this thread, and I'd like to ask for a clarification here: which 'traditional' morals and values?

 

It's already been pointed out that at the time when the US was founded, slavery was pretty much a tradition here, and remained that way well into the next century. And up until the middle of the twentieth century, we still had segregated schools, lynchings, etc. Plus we had pretty much no domestic violence laws in place, no laws against marital sexual assault, gay people had to stay in the closet or they were often murdered, ostracized, assaulted...

 

I know your language has been respectful, Kat, and I do appreciate civil discussion. It's just that (either you or the secessionists) implying we should return to those 'traditional morals and values' kind of hurts regardless, for those of us who don't have to fear for our lives or safety anymore thanks to a lot of the 'non-traditional morals.'

[demonicvampiregirl]

You are right about the younger generation going to make America progress or not.

 

I am not saying the younger generation is rude on a whole, but to a certain degree they are, as some have not been taught to respect their elders, or to behave in school.

 

I do disagree with you when you say "The old values of this country should be dead by now. Those are old, out dated and are shown throughout the world to be wrong".

 

I do not care what the rest of the world thinks, this is America. I do not keep up with the Smith's and the Jones's, let alone what Afghanastan thinks.

 

My kids are 24 and 25. One is in law enforcement and the other has done two tours fighting for our freedom, or what ever any of you want to call it. Also the one in the Military is also in law enforcement now, but if called to go back overseas to fight, he will be on the next flight out. God Bless my children, I am so proud of them.

 

Both my sons say, Yes Mam, Yes Sir, let old people take their seat, they believe in a higher being, such as God, respect their elders. My sons have no problem with people who are not hetrosexual, but they do have a problem with people who have sex and that do not use birth control and then want an abortion. They disrespect people who do not take responsibility for thier actions in the USA no matter what it is. You have to understand the types of people the deal with.

 

No need to be sorry, you are not ranting, this is how you feel, and you are entitled to it.

Or we have learned to not respect those who don't respect us. Honestly look at some of your older posts. Some of the things you've said if anyone said them they would instantly lose any ounce of respect I could muster up for them. (Just using them as a point. I am not saying anything beyond that just to make a point) I could not respect anyone who belittles me due to my age, my gender, my opinions, my choice of political party or anything that is personal to me.

 

Those old values should be ancient history. They don't apply anymore.

 

I don't say yes ma'am/sir, I don't believe in god (or any form), and I show my respect back when I know they are showing me it as well.

 

People who have sex, don't use birth control and repeatedly get an abortion I have an issue with myself. People who take precautions and still wind up in that situation they have every right to it.

[~Kat~]

Been lurking on this thread, and I'd like to ask for a clarification here: which 'traditional' morals and values?

 

It's already been pointed out that at the time when the US was founded, slavery was pretty much a tradition here, and remained that way well into the next century. And up until the middle of the twentieth century, we still had segregated schools, lynchings, etc. Plus we had pretty much no domestic violence laws in place, no laws against marital sexual assault, gay people had to stay in the closet or they were often murdered, ostracized, assaulted...

 

I know your language has been respectful, Kat, and I do appreciate civil discussion. It's just that (either you or the secessionists) implying we should return to those 'traditional morals and values' kind of hurts regardless, for those of us who don't have to fear for our lives or safety anymore thanks to a lot of the 'non-traditional morals.'

I was born in America. When I was eight years old my family left this country. My parents are American.

 

I now live back in America, and have for a while now.

 

I have never believed in slavery period. No one should enslave another for any reason. Segregated schools, lynchings, gays being murdered, ostracized, assaulted is wrong on any level. I refuse to watch any movies to do with this sort of thing, how inhuman can one be.

 

I do not mean those kind of morals or values up above.

 

Duysterwald, please read what I posted after your post, that will give you more of a clue. It is the one where my kids are 24 and 25. My children are of the young generation I am talking about.

Edited November 11, 2012 by ~Kat~

[KageSora]

I am not saying the younger generation is rude on a whole, but to a certain degree they are, as some have not been taught to respect their elders, or to behave in school.

Just because somebody is my elder does not automatically mean they deserve my respect. Age makes it more likely that a person will behave in a way that deserves my respect, but I could list several older people I've met who I have zero respect for due to their behavior.

 

Age alone does not mean we ought to respect you. That age needs to be accompanied by words and actions befitting the respect you think you deserve. Failure to meet the expectations we youngsters place on you older folks is the quickest way to ensure we don't respect you at all. Especially those of you who fail spectacularly to meet those expectations.

Edited November 11, 2012 by KageSora

[pudding]

I was born in America. When I was eight years old my family left this country. My parents are American.

 

I have never believed in slavery period. No one should enslave another for any reason. Segregated schools, lynchings, gays being murdered, ostracized, assaulted is wrong on any level. I refuse to watch any movies to do with this sort of thing, how inhuman can one be.

 

I do not mean those kind of morals or values up above.

 

Duysterwald, please read what I posted after your post, that will give you more of a clue. It is the one where my kids are 24 and 25. My children are of the young generation I am talkiong about.

If you refuse to watch movies about them, how can you learn? Most movies about these things are educational.

 

Anyway, belief in God is not something that makes your sons better than I am. Never in the course of human events has the United States of America been a Christian nation. As per the Constitution, it has technically always been a secular nation. I say technically because that is what is written down on paper, not what is really practiced. But we have gotten better with that.

Anyway, Kat, you have to remember that most young adults are not like your sons. I could probably count the total number of children resembling yours in the United States on my left hand. Why? Because they don't want to respect elders by calling them sir or ma'am. They want to respect them by being their friend. Nine times out of ten, the elder prefers that to being called sir. I have plenty of friends older than I am and I only got that way by refusing to call the elderly by anything but their first name.

 

Besides that, Kage is right. I have someone I know who repeatedly makes racist remarks. She is older than I am and I am still her friend but I could never respect her because of that. Age does not equal wisdom. Elders are not worthy of respect until they can prove they have earned it with knowledge reflecting their old age.

[~Kat~]

Or we have learned to not respect those who don't respect us. Honestly look at some of your older posts. Some of the things you've said if anyone said them they would instantly lose any ounce of respect I could muster up for them. (Just using them as a point. I am not saying anything beyond that just to make a point) I could not respect anyone who belittles me due to my age, my gender, my opinions, my choice of political party or anything that is personal to me.

 

Those old values should be ancient history. They don't apply anymore.

 

I don't say yes ma'am/sir, I don't believe in god (or any form), and I show my respect back when I know they are showing me it as well.

 

People who have sex, don't use birth control and repeatedly get an abortion I have an issue with myself. People who take precautions and still wind up in that situation they have every right to it.

The reason this thread was closed was because of some old posts, blame me and others as well.

 

So, I have decided, I will honestly say what I have to say, but I can respect everyone else on here. Please forgive me, from my old posts. I can understand your reservations with me.

 

Just because you don't say yes ma'am/sir, I don't believe in god (or any form), I am not judging you. I stated how my children are as adults to prove a point that is also right.

 

I agree, those that use protection and get pregnant, i can agree with those that want an abortion.

 

@ KageSora, I can agree with you on what you posted below

 

"Just because somebody is my elder does not automatically mean they deserve my respect. Age makes it more likely that a person will behave in a way that deserves my respect, but I could list several older people I've met who I have zero respect for due to their behavior.

 

Age alone does not mean we ought to respect you. That age needs to be accompanied by words and actions befitting the respect you think you deserve. Failure to meet the expectations we youngsters place on you older folks is the quickest way to ensure we don't respect you at all. Especially those of you who fail to meet those expectations spectacularly."

 

My own children who are now young adults would say the same thing.

[Kishing]

I do not mean those kind of morals or values up above.

Part of the problem is, 'traditional morals and values' means something very different to some of us. 'Tradition' gets thrown in my face all the time when people say I shouldn't exist, or I shouldn't love who I love. Often 'traditional values' or 'family values' means 'anti-gay,' so you might reconsider your use of that phrase.

 

And my elders are often the people who throw 'tradition' in my face, or try to claim I'm an evil person because I don't believe in their God, or any. I'm still polite to them because I was raised well (non-religiously, but to be a good human being), but I do lose some respect for them.

 

On the sex and abortion issues, please do consider reading this: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/lovejoyfemini...e-movement.html

 

I won't say much more about that because we have another thread for abortion, but in a nutshell, liberal policies actually save more unborn lives - in actual practice, not in a perfect world. If your goal is truly to lower the number of abortions, then you've really got to be for social programs, sex ed, birth control, and decent healthcare.

[demonicvampiregirl]

The reason this thread was closed was because of some old posts, blame me and others as well.

 

So, I have decided, I will honestly say what I have to say, but I can respect everyone else on here. Please forgive me, from my old posts. I can understand your reservations with me.

 

Just because you don't say yes ma'am/sir, I don't believe in god (or any form), I am not judging you. I stated how my children are as adults to prove a point that is also right.

 

I agree, those that use protection and get pregnant, i can agree with those that want an abortion.

 

@ KageSora, I can agree with you on what you posted below

 

"Just because somebody is my elder does not automatically mean they deserve my respect. Age makes it more likely that a person will behave in a way that deserves my respect, but I could list several older people I've met who I have zero respect for due to their behavior.

 

Age alone does not mean we ought to respect you. That age needs to be accompanied by words and actions befitting the respect you think you deserve. Failure to meet the expectations we youngsters place on you older folks is the quickest way to ensure we don't respect you at all. Especially those of you who fail to meet those expectations spectacularly."

 

My own children who are now young adults would say the same thing.

I am probably part of that reason. I do get heated sometimes. :/

 

I understand that. Really I do. Just using religion for a argument is actually what made me hate it in the first place if you want me to be honest. It has no room anywhere besides church. It doesn't belong in politics or anything like that. It is a persons belief and that is all it has been. It shouldn't be a way of life that everyone has to follow. That is why in the constitution it says we have freedom of religion.

[~Kat~]

If you refuse to watch movies about them, how can you learn? Most movies about these things are educational.

 

Anyway, belief in God is not something that makes your sons better than I am. Never in the course of human events has the United States of America been a Christian nation. As per the Constitution, it has technically always been a secular nation. I say technically because that is what is written down on paper, not what is really practiced. But we have gotten better with that.

Anyway, Kat, you have to remember that most young adults are not like your sons. I could probably count the total number of children resembling yours in the United States on my left hand. Why? Because they don't want to respect elders by calling them sir or ma'am. They want to respect them by being their friend. Nine times out of ten, the elder prefers that to being called sir. I have plenty of friends older than I am and I only got that way by refusing to call the elderly by anything but their first name.

 

Besides that, Kage is right. I have someone I know who repeatedly makes racist remarks. She is older than I am and I am still her friend but I could never respect her because of that. Age does not equal wisdom. Elders are not worthy of respect until they can prove they have earned it with knowledge reflecting their old age.

I watched those movies when I lived where I lived outside of the USA. I agree they are educational. I can not watch anything like that anymore though.

 

My sons will tell you, you can still be their friend as an elder, but they are still going to call you Yes mam and Yes Sir if you deserve it. My D-I-L still says Yes Mam to me, and I do not like it, , but that is the way she was raised, as was my sons.

 

My sons are no better than you just because they believe in God, you are right. I never said that either.

 

Part of the problem is, 'traditional morals and values' means something very different to some of us. 'Tradition' gets thrown in my face all the time when people say I shouldn't exist, or I shouldn't love who I love. Often 'traditional values' or 'family values' means 'anti-gay,' so you might reconsider your use of that phrase.

 

And my elders are often the people who throw 'tradition' in my face, or try to claim I'm an evil person because I don't believe in their God, or any. I'm still polite to them because I was raised well (non-religiously, but to be a good human being), but I do lose some respect for them.

 

On the sex and abortion issues, please do consider reading this: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/lovejoyfemini...e-movement.html

 

I won't say much more about that because we have another thread for abortion, but in a nutshell, liberal policies actually save more unborn lives - in actual practice, not in a perfect world. If your goal is truly to lower the number of abortions, then you've really got to be for social programs, sex ed, birth control, and decent healthcare.

I am sorry that some say you should not exist. Please do not believe them as it is not TRUE. You are someone and you are worthy Kishing.

 

Let me tell you what I told both of my sons.

 

I do not care if you are gay, you bring home your partner that is pink with polka dots, as long as you are both happy, then Momma is happy. I mean and still mean that with all my heart.

 

I believe in abortion, because of rape, death of the mother, incest, and if the child is so badly deformed or you are on the pill or use birth control and still get pregnant, I hope I did not leave something out.

 

What I have a hard time with is, if you have sex, and do nothing to prevent getting pregnant, that is wrong if you live in America.

 

@ demonicvampiregirl, hey, you are OK,

Edited November 11, 2012 by NixAyum

[shovedtbh]

I know this is off topic from now, but I read a friend's post here an I have to agree about illegal immigration being a big issue right now. We are too over populated as it is, and many jobs are being taken by "illegals". I hate using that word and it comes off as being offensive. If they were to change the terminology it would come off as being less racist an the issue would be a hell of a lot more comfortable to discuss with any party. We are a country founded by immigrants Yet we give the natives respect by calling them Native Americans in which they are not "savages" like some of the white pioneers who settled here would describe them as. Times are changing and we need to adapt to this change. If ignorance is everlasting we will fail to evolve as the human race. My point is, since we are a very cultural nation we should embrace that. I think illegals should certainly be deported but also be given the chance to register as an American Citizen if they already have grounded lives here. It isn't right to strip away the lives of those illegals just because of failed policies being instated in the first place, that isn't their fault it is our systems fault for never addressing the issues with illegal immigrants in the first place. Unregistered Americans seems like a better term to refer to illegal immigrants as. They have been here, and some have been for decades entitling their sons and daughters of being true Americans. Just because they don't have a paper, leave the children alone...and their parents for that fact. The unregistered Americans that don't hold jobs, don't have families or just don't find any opportunity here, these are the immigrants who should be the ones to leave.

[LascielsShadow]

I know this is off topic from now, but I read a friend's post here an I have to agree about illegal immigration being a big issue right now. We are too over populated as it is, and many jobs are being taken by "illegals". I hate using that word and it comes off as being offensive. If they were to change the terminology it would come off as being less racist an the issue would be a hell of a lot more comfortable to discuss with any party. We are a country founded by immigrants Yet we give the natives respect by calling them Native Americans in which they are not "savages" like some of the white pioneers who settled here would describe them as. Times are changing and we need to adapt to this change. If ignorance is everlasting we will fail to evolve as the human race. My point is, since we are a very cultural nation we should embrace that. I think illegals should certainly be deported but also be given the chance to register as an American Citizen if they already have grounded lives here. It isn't right to strip away the lives of those illegals just because of failed policies being instated in the first place, that isn't their fault it is our systems fault for never addressing the issues with illegal immigrants in the first place. Unregistered Americans seems like a better term to refer to illegal immigrants as. They have been here, and some have been for decades entitling their sons and daughters of being true Americans. Just because they don't have a paper, leave the children alone...and their parents for that fact. The unregistered Americans that don't hold jobs, don't have families or just don't find any opportunity here, these are the immigrants who should be the ones to leave.

The term you're looking for is "undocumented". (It's the one people generally prefer, as it doesn't carry the same negative connotations as "illegal".) And yeah, I think we need an easier/better path for them to become citizens.

Edited November 11, 2012 by LascielsShadow

[shovedtbh]

The term you're ;looking for is "undocumented". And yeah, I think we need an easier/better path for them to become citizens.

LoL, I haven't heard that term in years, shows how much it is used nowadays an that is sad that we haven't tried harder to make peace with this issue. Ty for clarifying that for me.

[TikindiDragon]

I know this is off topic from now, but I read a friend's post here an I have to agree about illegal immigration being a big issue right now. We are too over populated as it is, and many jobs are being taken by "illegals".

If you think the US is over populated you should try visiting some countries with *real* population issues. If you have a look at this map you'll see that the US doesn't suffer from anything like the massive over-population in most of Europe, India, Japan and China.

 

In a ranked list of the 100 countries and territories with populations over 7 million (1) the US is ranked just 76th for population density. By comparison the UK is ranked 15th, and South Korea 3rd.

Edited November 11, 2012 by TikindiDragon

[shovedtbh]

If you think the US is over populated you should try visiting some countries with *real* population issues. If you have a look at this map you'll see that the US doesn't suffer from anything like the massive over-population in most of Europe, India, Japan and China.

So they have blinded me too I guess. I am very lazy when it comes to politics because I don't care to do my own research. Another problem is that I am too trusting in what others say. I mean if they are making a statement and are so strongly backed behind it, there must be some truth in what they are saying, right? The truth of that map is we are scared of overpopulation in the near future, an maybe this is why we haven't figured out better ways to deal with legally documenting immigrants who wish to live here, we just make it harder on them because some of us feel "threatened". Our basics are that of survival so this only makes sense to what I was saying before with evolving to a higher more functional man kind, sometimes the answers aren't that difficult but might be harder for us to grasp the root of simplicity, to see the forest from the trees. Ty for that map as well, it was quite informative O_O

[TikindiDragon]

So they have blinded me too I guess. I am very lazy when it comes to politics because I don't care to do my own research. Another problem is that I am too trusting in what others say. I mean if they are making a statement and are so strongly backed behind it, there must be some truth in what they are saying, right? The truth of that map is we are scared of overpopulation in the near future, an maybe this is why we haven't figured out better ways to deal with legally documenting immigrants who wish to live here, we just make it harder on them because some of us feel "threatened". Our basics are that of survival so this only makes sense to what I was saying before with evolving to a higher more functional man kind, sometimes the answers aren't that difficult but might be harder for us to grasp the root of simplicity, to see the forest from the trees. Ty for that map as well, it was quite informative O_O

You're welcome. I've seen the 'over population' argument brought up in US politics before, and I've often wondered wether or not the people mentioning it have any real concept of what over-population *is*. To a lot of the rest of the world the US has larger tracts of completely unoccupied land than many of us can truly contemplate.

 

That said population density around NY, and also in certain parts of California, does seem to be every bit as high as it is in my area of the world (bit south of London), so those people probably have a much better grasp of the issues. The difference is in the US there is plenty more room for people to go to, where in places like the UK, India and Japan it just isn't possible without emigrating.

[shovedtbh]

You're welcome. I've seen the 'over population' argument brought up in US politics before, and I've often wondered wether or not the people mentioning it have any real concept of what over-population *is*. To a lot of the rest of the world the US has larger tracts of completely unoccupied land than many of us can truly contemplate.

 

That said population density around NY, and also in certain parts of California, does seem to be every bit as high as it is in my area of the world (bit south of London), so those people probably have a much better grasp of the issues. The difference is in the US there is plenty more room for people to go to, where in places like the UK, India and Japan it just isn't possible without emigrating.

I live on Long Island and I hate going to the city because of the over population issue. Maybe that is why I have been also blinded. I only been to a few more states and never out of the US, even though I would love to one day. Your'e very right though... of unused land an a lot of it being used by our own government for useless experiments >.> but that is another topic that I won't venture into lol.

[Kyrieath]

You know, every time I see someone proclaiming Obama is going against everything our country was founded in and then supports Romney/the Republicans, I'm not entirely certain if I should laugh, cry or just look for a wall to go beat my head on.

 

Should we just change "GOP" to "Church of America" and acknowledge it's apparently the next generation of the Church of England? (Y'know, that little semi-theocracy that chased some of our founding fathers over to the colonies in the first place because they wanted to follow their own beliefs and not the government's..?) Nutcases like so many of the most outspoken Republicans lately are why many other countries think we're all religious, racist and women-hating warmongers out to rid the world of anyone who doesn't agree with "us".

 

I don't have much love for Democrats either but lately the Republicans are the ones making fools of themselves and willfully ignoring some pretty key points our founding fathers made - because it doesn't forward their agenda. All the Democrats have to do is keep quiet and go about their business doing whatever they want silently. Meanwhile the Republicans provide a lovely distraction for the public as they scream, whine, cry, preach and generally just make a spectacle of themselves and disgrace the properly conservative, dignified members of their party that are just trying to avoid that toxic behavior altogether. (Yes, there are "good" Republicans -insofar as politicians ever are- but they're pretty hard to spot these days with the circus in town.)

 

So- while I don't like Obama, I'm glad Romney didn't win. And I'm sincerely hoping the Republican party will take this four year interval to do some serious house cleaning so they can be a viable party again- not the embarrassment they currently are.

 

editing reason: Grammar; it's a thing before the first cup of coffee.

Edited November 11, 2012 by Kyrieath

[brairtrainer]

You are right about the younger generation going to make America progress or not.

 

I am not saying the younger generation is rude on a whole, but to a certain degree they are, as some have not been taught to respect their elders, or to behave in school.

 

I do disagree with you when you say "The old values of this country should be dead by now. Those are old, out dated and are shown throughout the world to be wrong".

 

I do not care what the rest of the world thinks, this is America. I do not keep up with the Smith's and the Jones's, let alone what Afghanastan thinks.

 

My kids are 24 and 25. One is in law enforcement and the other has done two tours fighting for our freedom, or what ever any of you want to call it. Also the one in the Military is also in law enforcement now, but if called to go back overseas to fight, he will be on the next flight out. God Bless my children, I am so proud of them.

 

Both my sons say, Yes Mam, Yes Sir, let old people take their seat, they believe in a higher being, such as God, respect their elders. My sons have no problem with people who are not hetrosexual, but they do have a problem with people who have sex and that do not use birth control and then want an abortion. They disrespect people who do not take responsibility for thier actions in the USA no matter what it is. You have to understand the types of people the deal with.

 

No need to be sorry, you are not ranting, this is how you feel, and you are entitled to it.

As a memeber of the younger generation I am greatly offended by your post. Maybe its time that you take a good look around you and see the times change.

 

There is always rudeness in each generation. I know that people at my high school or my college aren't saints, but I respect everyone until they give me a reason not to. Also if you were to ask me who is more likely to be rude to me I'll say hands down that most of the people who I've found rude are not found in my gerneration but in my parents.

 

I've been screamed at by other kids' parents, been lied too as to why I wasn't allowed to attend school when I was younger, been yelled at for being late when it wasn't my fault but the fact that the doors of the school were locking early and barred me from getting to my locker on time and the fact that do to some rudeness from my generation(see I admit that I have been affected by both) my insturment had to be kept locked up in my band directors office because the school officals wouldn't do what they were suppsed to (come up with a seperate solution).

 

If I'm going to be cut in line or cut off in traffic most of the time it is someone from your generation, not from mine.

 

 

That being said, on the topic of undocumented workers I honestly think what we need to do, because of the violence in Mexico we should allow for refuge status, that will help most people get their green card if they left because of the violence and allow us to focus on the small amount that are bringing in drugs or importing people as slaves.

[Fuzzbucket]

Legalising drugs and putting them under state control would have the same effect. In Portugal, where they legalised drugs, drug use has fallen dramatically and there is no drug-related crime to speak of, as there's not the money in it any more.

 

If drugs were sold in government outlets, like alcohol is in most of North America - you'd know what you were getting, the government would make money from selling them - which they could put towards detox programmes - and the drug barons would be out of a job just like that.

 

Win-win - ALL the research shows that it does NOT up use - partly because there is no POINT in dealers trying to get other people hooked so that they have them over a barrel.

 

AS for respect - that has to be earned. In ALL cases.

 

I refuse to respect foul-mouthed teachers who scream at kids who dare to challenge them by saying "excuse me, that isn't what the encyclopaedia says" (*angry mother fixed THAT little one in no time flat.*) and I would defend a child's right not to respect them, however old they were. Respect is NOT something that you should get just because you are older - but if it is - hey up - y'all better respect me BIG TIME, as I am 68 years old...

Edited November 11, 2012 by fuzzbucket

[Kestra15]

A lot of our diseases we have could be prevented. Obesity, alcohol abuse, drug abuse, smoking, eating fast foods that are mostly fried causes heart problems, diabetes, cancer, stroke, and the list goes on. All of these bad choices drive up the cost of health care for everybody. I know I have been taking better care of myself for a while now.

A lot of those are not 'preventable diseases.' Some of them we can limit, a lot of them have risk factors, but obesity, heart problems, diabetes, cancer and stroke can and will happen to anyone (cancer is in fact an inevitabie side effect of aging - theoretically, we humans could not live past 200yrs of age because all of us would succumb to cancer by that point). Substance misuse is often a symptom of a more insidious problem so even if we pulled alcohol and tobacco off the shelves, there would just be higher incidences of other conditions.

Texas Republicans threaten to secede from U.S. after Obama's victory

 

Childish much?

Let them. We could all do with a laugh.

can understand why all of you feel the way you do, but these people are from the accepted tradition, and under Obama, things have radically changed.

 

They see that traditions and moral values have gone. They have been going even before Obama, but the values and moral values of our forefathers have drastically changed under Obama

 

I can not blame them at all, just as I guess I can not blame any of you who feel differently either.

As pointed out, those traditions you refer to include (but are not limited to) racism, religious prejudice, slavery, white male supremecy, vigilante law, under-age arranged marriages, socially-accepted paedophilia, unchallenged rape...

 

Societies are always changing. Those who live in the past are doomed to repeat it's mistakes.

Just because somebody is my elder does not automatically mean they deserve my respect.  Age makes it more likely that a person will behave in a way that deserves my respect, but I could list several older people I've met who I have zero respect for due to their behavior.

 

Age alone does not mean we ought to respect you.  That age needs to be accompanied by words and actions befitting the respect you think you deserve.  Failure to meet the expectations we youngsters place on you older folks is the quickest way to ensure we don't respect you at all.  Especially those of you who fail spectacularly to meet those expectations.

This. Sorry ladies and gents, I will respect you at first but from the moment I meet you, your actions dictate the respect I will afford you. I will rarely move below a base level of civility because I believe it is best not to become confrontational with those I do not agree with (and I have a requirement to do so), but don't expect me to give you respect if it is not being reciprocated.

Edited November 12, 2012 by Kestra15

[Vhale]

One thing that amazes me a bit about this election, is all the coverage devoted to the fact that white voters are not this massive, Republican voting block. I've never felt this overwhelming sisterhood to other white people. Probably because I was bullied by "traditional" white people when I was a kid. We moved around a lot when I was a kid. One of the places we ended up was Texas. I was one of maybe 3 red heads in the school. It was very preppy, very white. I was told for years by other white people that they'd rather be dead than look like me. My locker was vandalized and belongings stolen. There were a few assaults. My clothes weren't "high class" enough though they weren't poor. Things didn't change for me until we moved states and were in a far more diverse school where no one cared that I couldn't tan and my hair wasn't blonde.

 

To me, traditional white values are taking anyone that doesn't fit a specific mold and smashing them into the dirt. Nothing could make me fight harder against the Republican party than seeing people in it clinging to these values. I didn't run from people then. I learned you can't, that you have to stick up for yourself and others. I see Independents and Democrats doing that, even if slowly. I don't see it with the far right.

 

Article Same idea, different point of view.

[CrossingStar]

To me, traditional white values are taking anyone that doesn't fit a specific mold and smashing them into the dirt. Nothing could make me fight harder against the Republican party than seeing people in it clinging to these values. I didn't run from people then. I learned you can't, that you have to stick up for yourself and others. I see Independents and Democrats doing that, even if slowly. I don't see it with the far right.

Hmm. I had much the same experience for being short and dark-haired. Going to a higher end private school - for which I needed a scholarship - was made difficult by the way the other children acted. They were obsessed with clothes and boys, and a little dragon-loving lesbian * (what they called me) did NOT have any place on their turf.

 

So yes, I agree with this statement. Traditional "white" values are, IMO, very judgmental and scathing.

 

Censor evasion

Edited November 13, 2012 by NixAyum