American Politics

[brairtrainer]

I think the economic model there, then, is indeed communist - but that sounds very unpleasant, and the REAL idea of communism also includes being equal, I think - so... that poor guy wasn't. And I don't think communism - REAL communism - includes a government deciding what you should be like and so on.

 

Removing of individualism is NOTHING to do with communism, which is essentially and strictly an economic thing based on "to each according to his need" and I think we all have a need to be who we are, no ? Even if not - it has nothing to do with moulding people.

 

Does that mesh with your college study ? (I ask seriously, because what I know comes from reading on my own !)

 

Philpot - I agree with you ! (enjoy it while it lasts - it doesn't happen often in a political thread )

It does Fuzz, I understand it being completly economic, I'm saying that because of greed and other things in human nature we'd need outside controls to make it work.

 

 

[Fuzzbucket]

It does Fuzz, I understand it being completly economic, I'm saying that because of greed and other things in human nature we'd need outside controls to make it work.

And that is exactly what makes REAL communism unworkable. Because the whole POINT is that it is totally based on altruism.

 

We are all too greedy. The best we can hope for is a real social democracy. Not ideal - but given human nature, the best option. Except for those of us who don't want to share anything at all, even through taxation. (See under Starbucks and tax avoidance, to name but one...)

[Vhale]

Out of curiosity, how do those models relate to peoples such as the Amish? They are very community focused but I don't know much about their particular economy. I've heard there are also some libertarian towns in Europe that run via that system.

[Fuzzbucket]

Out of curiosity, how do those models relate to peoples such as the Amish? They are very community focused but I don't know much about their particular economy. I've heard there are also some libertarian towns in Europe that run via that system.

The Amish (I live in a very Mennonite area on Canada) are the closest thing I know to true communists. I'm not sure what they do about taxes; I do know that many of them don't take part in the medical system, and pay their own way. I say "many of them" as I thought it was all of them till I had my health card photo taken next in line to a Mennonite family.

 

And yes, they help each other out at all times. Totally altruistic. They do have some fairly rigid rules among themselves - but they are nothing to do with economics. The education of girls is a bit of an issue at times...

 

They do use money, of course - I have often bought from them on their market stalls and at the farm gate, and met them in the supermarket, so they don't carry it all as far as they might.

 

I don;t know about TOWNS running that way - I'm not sure how they could ? Can you find any ?

[Jrady]

The Amish (I live in a very Mennonite area on Canada) are the closest thing I know to true communists. I'm not sure what they do about taxes; I do know that many of them don't take part in the medical system, and pay their own way. I say "many of them" as I thought it was all of them till I had my health card photo taken next in line to a Mennonite family.

 

I am actually a Mennonite and I can tell you that Mennonites and Amish are completely different. It is true that we both split from the same religious group in the 1500's, and we do have a few of the same religious beliefs, but other than that we are not the same. Mennonites can use electricity and be in the world, and though there are some conservative Mennonites that may look and dress like Amish, a lot of Mennonites would look and dress the same as anyone else.

 

I also don't really know much about the Amish economy, but I do know that they originally wanted to be separate from "the world", so that they would not be corrupted by worldly desires. Now, though, it seems like the Amish do more trading in the world and even have people drive them places even though they originally didn't want to have anything to do with cars.

[Fuzzbucket]

Fair enough; naturally you know far more than I - but in our area we seem to have two types, the Old Order Mennonites, who some people around us - maybe wrongly - refer to as Amish, do not use electricity at all. Or phones. And they get around in horse drawn buggies. The supermarkets all have tethering points and some even have horse shelters !

 

The - what would I call them - the New Order ? The "ordinary ones" ?? do use cars and electricity, and do join in more community things, as well. As far as I know all of the ones around us - old and new - dress in the way one kind of expects - they look absolutely lovely, but rather hot sometimes. I never forget the day we saw some of the children swimming in the lake. Fully dressed. In those Laura Ingalls long dresses.

[CrossingStar]

As far as I know all of the ones around us - old and new - dress in the way one kind of expects - they look absolutely lovely, but rather hot sometimes. I never forget the day we saw some of the children swimming in the lake. Fully dressed. In those Laura Ingalls long dresses.

Is it wrong of me to have smiled when I read this? The Amish life has always seemed rather interesting to me, though I don't actually know a lot about it.

 

And these were Mennonite children, but it sounds very much like what you'd see in an Amish community like the ones here in Ohio.

[~Kat~]

Kat - you may have missed my last post, as it was on the bottom of a page, so I'll ask again a question that I'm really very interested in you answer to: do you consider the UK and/or Canada to be socialist/communist countries?

I am not getting ito other countries. One I do not really care what they do as I do not live there, and I do not keep up with what is going on in other countries and their politics. Two, I really do not know enough about what you are asking me about those countries either.

[demonicvampiregirl]

I am not getting ito other countries. One I do not really care what they do as I do not live there, and I do not keep up with what is going on in other countries and their politics. Two, I really do not know enough about what you are asking me about those countries either.

So you don't care about any other place other than where you live? You don't realize just how important other countries are do you?

 

Look at all your products for start. If the country where they were made at was bitter towards us for any reason don't you think they'd stop production?

 

If an economy crashes elsewhere it does affect ours as well don't it?

 

Our allies mean absolutely nothing to you because they aren't from America?

[~Kat~]

Mitt Romney Says Bill Clinton Told Him Hurricane Sandy Won Obama Election

 

Mitt Romney says he received a call from former President Bill Clinton.

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/15/r...26pLid%3D235187

[demonicvampiregirl]

Mitt Romney Says Bill Clinton Told Him Hurricane Sandy Won Obama Election

 

Mitt Romney says he received a call from former President Bill Clinton.

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/15/r...26pLid%3D235187

Oh for gods sake Mitt get over it already. ' I highly doubt he said that.

[Fuzzbucket]

And there for a few brief hours I thought Romney was going to act like a decent human being and actually help with governing the US, as he suggested in his speech - working together....

 

Oh well....

[~Kat~]

So you don't care about any other place other than where you live? You don't realize just how important other countries are do you?

 

Look at all your products for start. If the country where they were made at was bitter towards us for any reason don't you think they'd stop production?

 

If an economy crashes elsewhere it does affect ours as well don't it?

 

Our allies mean absolutely nothing to you because they aren't from America?

I do not think it is really fair of you to accuse me of not knowing about products as you know nothing about me and my family. Please be careful who you accuse of what. I know it is hard to post all of our thoughts on a forum. You could have asked me do I know.

 

My dad has been many things in his life. He also was a farmer, that grew wheat, soybeans and other things for people to eat. He was also a beef cattle farmer that raised Chianina, Brahman and other breeds of cattle for people to eat. I also lived on the farm and helped him with the cattle. I know about other animals on a farm as well. I know how the products such as food gets to your table and all of the process from killing and how it gets to market.

 

Other things how they are made I have watched on TV and I also know how they get to America that are made by other countries as well.

 

Low blow when you also said that "Our allies mean absolutely nothing to you because they aren't from America"? I have a son who has fought 2 tours for this country, so yes, I know what allies are in that aspect and others.

 

Nothing I can do for other countries and their politics, as I do not live there. I concentrate here in my homeland called America.

 

Since this thread was opened back up, I have tried to be very cary careful and be respectful of what I put on and what I have said. Please give me the same respect. It seems like some others on here are also bitter. I know that we do not agree on most things when it comes to politics, but we can still be nice to each other and the way we ask things instead of accusing each other.

Edited November 16, 2012 by ~Kat~

[demonicvampiregirl]

I do not think it is really fair of you to accuse me of not knowing about products as you know nothing about me and my family. Please be careful who you accuse of what. I know it is hard to post all of our thoughts on a forum. You could have asked me do I know.

 

My dad has been many things in his life. He also was a farmer, that grew wheat, soybeans and other things for people to eat. He was also a beef cattle farmer that raised Chianina, Brahman and other breeds of cattle for people to eat. I also lived on the farm and helped him with the cattle. I know about other animals on a farm as well. I know how the products such as food gets to your table and all of the process from killing and how it gets to market.

 

Other things how they are made I have watched on TV and I also know how they get to America that are made by other countries as well.

 

Low blow when you also said that "Our allies mean absolutely nothing to you because they aren't from America"? I have a son who has fought 2 tours for this country, so yes, I know what allies are in that aspect and others.

 

Nothing I can do for other countries and their politics, as I do not live there. I concentrate here in my homeland called America.

 

Since this thread was opened back up, I have tried to be very cary careful and be respectful of what I put on and what I have said. Please give me the same respect. It seems like some others on here are also bitter.

What the heck does knowing about you and your products have anything to do with the question at all? Really I asked you to look at them and where they are made. What in the world makes you think anything other than that?

 

You are yet AGAIN avoiding any of the questions. You avoid everything everyone asks you and you wonder why people get upset with you. I asked you a few questions and you went off on some biography of your family history. That was NOT the question. That is NOT what I asked.

 

How is that a "low blow" if I asked if they mean nothing? You said yourself you don't care about other countries. Where do you think those people come from? Do they just spontaneously appear in another country to help the US military out?

 

The world doesn't revolve around America. You have to worry about everyone not just where you live. If one place goes crashing down the rest are surely to follow at some point.

 

I was being respectful. I asked you some questions to answer and yet again like normal you avoided every single one of them and accused ME of saying things I didn't.

 

 

 

Mitt Romney cuts off campaign workers credit cards, leaves workers stranded

 

On a totally unrelated note, this is the same guy people wanted in office. After hearing this I would never want him in any form of political power. So much for caring about your fellow man like a good Christian huh?

 

 

 

 

I know that we do not agree on most things when it comes to politics, but we can still be nice to each other and the way we ask things instead of accusing each other.

 

Kat stop the accusing bull**** I did not once accuse you of anything. I asked you to answer a few questions. I did not imply anything. You yet again avoided all of them.

Edited November 16, 2012 by demonicvampiregirl

[skauble]

Mitt Romney Says Bill Clinton Told Him Hurricane Sandy Won Obama Election

 

Mitt Romney says he received a call from former President Bill Clinton.

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/15/r...26pLid%3D235187

Serious question - What is the point of the whole "it was the hurricane" thing for the conservatives?

 

Romney said that Obama wasn't good at this job and the Republicans maintained the president didn't work well with them - it was a large part of their critique of his presidency. If Sandy convinced people otherwise, showed people that Obama could be an effective, bipartisan leader, I'm not sure why it's being suggested that it's some kind of illegitimate way to win.

 

That aside, I have no idea exactly what Clinton said - whether he believed that the hurricane changed things or it's just when he realized that things had changed, but the fact is that the numbers show this as a dead argument from the get go, in regards to the whole "Romney was winning! He had momentum!" argument:

 

 

And while the conservatives are welcome to start a new fight with Nate Silver about his statistics, I think we all know how well that worked out for them last time.

[Vhale]

Thank you for the info on Amish and Mennonites. I brought it up because some of the descriptions reminded me of my parents and grandparents. THey are old farming community. Everyone seems to grow different crops and trade with each other. Many times we'd go to the orchard and pick up peaches etc that were on the ground, then take them down the street to the neighbors to feed their pigs. Then often, they'd share some of the meat when they were slaughtered. It made me think that that style of government, probably works easier in a closer, more rural setting where it's more necessary for people to look after each other. But, that's my very unprofessional meandering thought.

 

Btw, I had mentioned Gerrymandering awhile ago. Mother Jones has been following how it effected the election on both sides as we just went through a redistricting pass. I would like to see both parties knocked upside the head for these tricks.

 

Original

 

 

 

I like the little person chart. It really hits it home how gerrymandering affects things.

 

[MysticTiger]

 

With people like this wanting to succeed, I say let them. Keep the stupidity out of the gene pool.

[demonicvampiregirl]

 

With people like this wanting to succeed, I say let them. Keep the stupidity out of the gene pool.

Omg Mystic -lol-

 

I really hoped people didn't really spell that bad but wow. I mean I couldn't spell secede at first but I never used it in anything until this thread. There's a difference there. :/

[Syaoransbear]

Mitt Romney Says Bill Clinton Told Him Hurricane Sandy Won Obama Election

 

Mitt Romney says he received a call from former President Bill Clinton.

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/15/r...26pLid%3D235187

I thought his concession speech was pretty great, but that was obviously just a big fat lie to cover up his huge childishness and his unwillingness to see how he made some really grave errors.

 

Romney is the reason Obama won. So many people were just so focused on not allowing Romney to win that they voted for Obama. How can he not see that?

 

I am not getting ito other countries. One I do not really care what they do as I do not live there, and I do not keep up with what is going on in other countries and their politics.

 

Don't you think that's a bit narrow-minded though? That's something that bothers me about some Americans. It's always "Support our troops", "God bless America", "America is number 1". What about the troops of the allies? What about "God bless everyone"? What about pride for the earth instead of just America? I don't know, only focusing on your country just seems so small-scale to me.

 

It reminds me of that thread someone made a little while back that was a veterans day thread but they only cared about fallen American soldiers, and then they proceeded to say America is the best country in the world. To only have concern for your own country and your own people makes Americans seem very narrow-minded, and not acknowledging the losses that allies suffered beside Americans makes allies not like America very much. Especially when you friendly fire your allies way too often and still only honor your own troops, like the allies troops don't even exist or something.

[~Kat~]

Don't you think that's a bit narrow-minded though? That's something that bothers me about some Americans. It's always "Support our troops", "God bless America", "America is number 1". What about the troops of the allies? What about "God bless everyone"? What about pride for the earth instead of just America? I don't know, only focusing on your country just seems so small-scale to me.

 

It reminds me of that thread someone made a little while back that was a veterans day thread but they only cared about fallen American soldiers, and then they proceeded to say America is the best country in the world. To only have concern for your own country and your own people makes Americans seem very narrow-minded, and not acknowledging the losses that allies suffered beside Americans makes allies not like America very much. Especially when you friendly fire your allies way too often and still only honor your own troops, like the allies troops don't even exist or something.

This is now about the military. You had better believe I support all of our allies that help us from any of the countries.

 

Yes, God Bless them all and

 

Amen

 

 

John Metz, Denny's Franchisee And Hurricane Grill & Wings Owner, Imposes Surcharge For Obamacare

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/13/j...26pLid%3D234886

 

Wow, this is turning into a real mess for people.

 

Obamacare is not free at all.

Edited November 16, 2012 by NixAyum

[KageSora]

NOBODY with a lick of sense said that Obamacare would be 100% free. :| There are initial costs to start it up and all that, and to fund it.

 

You think they're going to just make doctors treat people for free? The funding needs to come from somewhere.

 

But, of course, screw other people if I have to pay a little more now! The short term is so much more important than the long term!

[ShinyTomato]

John Metz, Denny's Franchisee And Hurricane Grill & Wings Owner, Imposes Surcharge For Obamacare

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/13/j...26pLid%3D234886

 

Wow, this is turning into a real mess for people.

 

Obamacare is not free at all.

This should be dealt with legally, through lawsuits and the proper channels.

 

Employers should not have the ability to do this. Period. they're trying to avoid caring for their employees.

[skauble]

John Metz, Denny's Franchisee And Hurricane Grill & Wings Owner, Imposes Surcharge For Obamacare

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/13/j...26pLid%3D234886

 

Wow, this is turning into a real mess for people.

 

Obamacare is not free at all.

So you guys are just giving up at winning elections then? Seriously, does anything in the post-election analysis by the conservatives involve looking at the incredible meltdown you guys had and the sweeping liberal win on a myriad of levels?

 

I see some of the Republican party people trying to rally the right to examine how they can address this, but if the insistence remains to carry on in this fashion, with pretty much no self-investigation, then all the arguing is pointless, because the GOP simply doesn't have the numbers to sustain itself as a major party past a certain point.

[Rosedamai]

The world doesn't revolve around America. You have to worry about everyone not just where you live. If one place goes crashing down the rest are surely to follow at some point.

It's also because in some places we can't discuss domestic policies without thinking about the U.S. Face it America's like the Rome of today, they affect for better or for worse a lot of places around the world.

[demonicvampiregirl]

It's also because in some places we can't discuss domestic policies without thinking about the U.S. Face it America's like the Rome of today, they affect for better or for worse a lot of places around the world.

Yep. I mean I don't personally keep up with every place but if I see a headline about them sometimes I do check them out. I don't want any place to come crashing down so it screws over everyone whether it's people in the U.S. or not.

 

While I don't believe in always sending them help continuously so they rely on the U.S for everything I do believe we should help out in times of need. It will help relations and keep some form of peace.