Wolves

[jiji970]

I have a wolf...

 

I adopted it. Hahaha. His name is Tristan and he lives in a sanctuary in Indiana.

 

http://wolfpark.org/

 

This is Tristan!

 

And that's me petting Tristan!

 

 

Wolves are my favorite animals. Not to sound cliche, but they are.

I ENVY U!!!!! haha

 

I like them, they are fluffy makes me wanna hug! and they make me like Huskies too bcoz of their appearance....

cant get one in Asia....

Edited September 13, 2010 by jiji970

[Wookieinmashoo]

i think wolves are cute but the evil guys kill them T^T and destroy forests where they live D: that's mean!

 

what if they become extinct?!?!

I'm sorry, but there are many more animals far close to extinction than wolves. Grey wolves are not even a concern in most areas.

 

And there is nothing wrong with liking wolves. I'm just pretty sure people get irritated by the "wolfaboos" which cause some people to dislike the animal.

[Kila]

I've seen wolves up close. Yes they're like dogs. No duh. Dogs descended from wolves. Of course they're similar. But wolves are more intelligent and more interesting. They're smart animals. And they're wild. There's something about a wild animal versus a domestic that's just a bit more intriguing. They hold a sense of mystery about them.

A lot of people confuse pack mentality with actual intelligence. Wolves are smart, yes. But they're not that smart. Many domestic dogs are smarter. Take the Standard Poodle, for example. And I'm afraid any primate could easily outsmart them. Or a raven. Or elephant. Or pig. As in the ones we turn into bacon.

 

So...your argument of wolves, who function on a pack mentality (pack behavior is instinct and imitation, and should not be considered into the average intelligence of an animal) and have remained relatively unchanged, is a little biased because you like them so much.

 

You need to consider that humans created the next step in canine evolution. The domestic dog. We have bred them to be smarter, better at many tasks that a wolf could never hope to comprehend or complete (service dogs, shepherding dogs, bear dogs, wolfhounds, etc). Many were bred to be bigger and stronger than wolves.

 

Again, pack behavior. Wolves function in packs. They cannot take down an elk on their own. They need the help of their pack. Alone they aren't that strong, where many domestic breeds, let's pick the German Shepard, are stronger on their own than a single wolf will ever be. The same can be said for Irish Wolfhounds, which were bred to keep wolves away. Dogs function with pack behavior as well, yes, but they fit in with a human pack.

 

Dogs were bred and created to be better than wolves.

 

And to call wolves "more interesting" is your opinion. I find several dog breeds to be more interesting than wolves.

[Wookieinmashoo]

Elaborating on what Kila said...

 

As far as I know animal intelligence, or any intelligence for that matter, is measured in the ability to problem solve, through learning and adaptation, tool use, play, etc.

There are too many directions to take when "measuring" intelligence, and I'm pretty sure that Kila is right about instinct not being one of them. Pack cooperation is an instinctual trait that pretty much all wolves share, or at least grey wolves.

 

An armadillo's instinct when startled is to jump up. This is reason why there are so many road-killed armadillos. Does this mean they're not smart? No, it's simply an instinct that does not benefit them when a car is around.

[Ulquiorra+Cuatro+Espada]

I just like wolves. I'm sick of people telling me reasons why they aren't great. They are. Animals are great. I love other animals.

 

I have a standard poodle. So, I know. She's a very smart dog.

 

And dogs still have a pack mentality. Dogs will make rankings within a home. Dogs have instincts they still follow. If you have ever watched Cesar Milan, he works with this "dog psychology" and most of it is dogs' instincts and how their brains function. And they make packs within their own species. Having two dogs in your home, I bet one is an alpha and one is a beta. Sorry, but dogs still have pack instincts within their own species. Simple fact. But also, wolves in the wild NEED to be in a pack. It's their way of surviving. They hunt large prey that they need more than one wolf to take down. Lone wolves don't do so well. Wolves in a pack have a much better chance of survival, even then it's a tough life. Wolves typically live 3 to 5 years in the wild.

 

But you say some dogs are stronger than wolves. Um, so? Bears are stronger than wolves. But the point of this argument is intelligence, not strength. Wolves still have more strength than some dogs, especially in jaw strength. The biting capacity of a wolf is 1,000 to 1,500 pounds of pressure per square inch. The strength of a wolf's jaws makes it possible to bite through a moose femur in six to eight bites. In comparison, a German shepherd has a biting pressure of 750 pounds per square inch. So yeah, wolves are still strong animals.

 

Yes, wolves aren't as "nifty" as dogs. Dogs have been breed to preform specific actions and therefore are better suited or stronger than wolves. But as I said before, we have our dogs because we have wolves. So without wolves we wouldn't have been able to make our breeds of man's best friend.

 

They do have brains that are 10% larger than dogs that are roughly around their same size. And wolves are big. Really big. My wolf is easily as tall as I am on his hind legs. And I'm nearly 6 feet tall. His paws are the size of my hand.

 

And perhaps you say dogs are smarter, because we've taken the time to TRAIN dogs. To perform tasks for us. Wolves, well, are wild. We don't train them. And if we do, on some level, they are surprisingly clever. Wolves can learn these things that make a dog seem smart, like being able to open a gate or follow human instructions. In fact, wolves who were raised by humans were found to follow human gestures much better than domestic dogs.

 

And since when does "well-trained" equal "more intelligent"? Cats are very intelligent animals, but they don't seem to learn "tricks". They are more independent and are incredibly resourceful and self-reliant". Where canines are more of pack animals.

 

Studies in the early 1980s showed that wolves, from which dogs probably descended, can unlock a gate after watching a human do it once, while dogs remained stumped after watching repeatedly.

 

Now people found the dogs actually learned this faster than thought, but they were waiting for their master's command. So it seems the dogs and wolves could both learn it, but the wolf didn't need a command to prompt they behavior. It just did what it wanted to do to get what it wanted, and that is the open gate.

 

So wolves that are raised by people can also learn things very quickly. But most wolves are wild, and don't need to communicate or interact with people.

 

I think animals like ravens and others you mentioned are very smart, and could be smarter than a wolf. But that's not my point. My point is wolves ARE smart. I don't care if you don't like them or like other animals more than them. That's fine. Not everyone has the same favorite animal. I'm just saying they are smart.

 

And actually, dogs have been able to perform tasks chimpanzees failed at. So if a dog could do it, a wolf would also have the capability.

 

And yeah, I'm biased because I like wolves. But I've done an immense amount of reading and research on them. I've seen them up close. They all had human-like qualities beyond a doubt. And besides, seeing as you don't like wolves that much, or think other animals are better, you too have a bias. You just are on the opposite side. So saying I have a bias to undermine my arguments doesn't work because most of the time, we are biased. Everyone has biases on issues. And its great you find other animals more interesting. That's cool. I find wolves interesting. I love them. I'm going to be honest and say that. I love dogs too. But wolves are my favorite animals.

Edited September 18, 2010 by Ulquiorra+Cuatro+Espada

[Vexx]

I like bats! They're strong and intelligent!

...Well, okay, only the Vampyrum Spectrum has much strength in it for a bat and probably wouldn't be able to attack a wolf, but it's still strong!

....And sure, you can't really teach bats to do various tricks and such, but they're still smart!

Of course I'm biased! I like bats!

 

ಠ_ಠ Can we all agree that people are going to be biased no matter what?

And I'm gonna quote a Spongebob moral on here- "Everyone's good at something!" "But no one's good at everything!"

 

Give me an animal that can hold conversations with a human and I'll be impressed. Until then, realize every animals have something better than another animal.

[Ulquiorra+Cuatro+Espada]

Agreed! Vexx you brought up many good points. I agree we are all biased. That's why I dislike when people point out you are biased... but they are as well. It's how we are!

 

My point I was trying to make is that wolves are strong and smart. Not that they are THE strongest or THE smartest, but that they are smart.

 

I like all animals. I really do. Wolves just happen to be my favorite. My boyfriend says humans are his favorite animal! Haha.

 

I like bats too.

 

:3

 

But this thread IS about wolves... so... yeah. People should be prepared for talk about wolves in this thread, including that they are smart... and pretty. They are pretty looking. It's strange how intense their eyes are.

 

... However, my dog has conversations with me. It's scary. <.<

 

Hahaha.

Edited September 18, 2010 by Ulquiorra+Cuatro+Espada

[Vexx]

Well, as I said to the chick that started this thread... If it was all about how AWESOMESUPERSPECTACULAR wolves are, it'd get boring fast.

Of course, can also work with the other side of the spectrum. :b But at least most of us are willing to admit that wolves can be beautiful, a bit smart, and a bit interesting... Not many wolfaboos admit that there are plenty animals out there that can be much more interesting than wolves, more endangered, smarter, etc etc.

Sure, some of it is based more on the people looking at it, but some of it isn't (like the last two listed there.) ....and really, every time I hear of a scientist excited to study something, it's usually never a wolf. >w> So I'd say that in a way there is something more interesting.

[Ulquiorra+Cuatro+Espada]

I've heard of plenty of people who are more than excited to study wolves. Haha. Wolves are still mysterious.

 

Like where I have my wolf, it's all dedicated to wolf research and people who study wolf behavior.

 

And wolves can be interesting to study. I think anything is interesting to learn about...

 

But of course there are animals we know less about. And that are more endangered. But I really can't say one is more interesting than another.

 

However, compared to their original range, wolves are pretty endangered. I mean if you look at where they used to live compared to where you can find them now, it's kind of sad. Most of where they used to live they have been completely extirpated from areas. But they are least concern for extinction as a whole species...

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Wolf_distr.gif <-- Range map.

 

But really, if you start learning more about them and delving into the subspecies it's really fascinating how many subspecies there are. Particularly the Arabian Wolf.

 

Just because wolves are my favorite animals, I don't consider myself a Wolfaboo. I actually have done a LOT of research and reading on them and want to know about their REAL selves. I don't draw pictures of TEH SPARKLEZY WOLFIES WIFF TEH WINGSSS and such. When I draw a wolf, I like to draw it realistically. Haha.

 

... But you must admit, no animal can howl like a wolf.... I mean other animals howl, don't get me wrong, but a wolf's howl is just so spectacular. Haha. Seeing them howl was one of the coolest experiences of my life.

 

...

 

And isn't this precious... x3

 

Edited September 18, 2010 by Ulquiorra+Cuatro+Espada

[Hawktalon]

And isn't this precious... x3

 

that is so cute !

[Vexx]

And isn't this precious... x3

 

I put that earlier. x3 that's just cute~

 

I dunno, every time I see anything to do with any scientist that's studying anything, it seems to be sea life. ....or crazy cryptozoologists trying to find proof of something or another.

I guess more people are interested in the more unknown things than what's already known. :b Obviously everyone just knows everything about wolves, of course people are gonna be more interested in something else. Something less known about.

 

Edit: God I wish emoticons will die in a fire.

Edited September 18, 2010 by Vexx

[Ulquiorra+Cuatro+Espada]

I'm interested in wolves!

 

...

 

Haha.

 

And I love cryptozoology. Heck I don't care if they really are fake. I love all that kind of stuff. Especially the Jersey Devil!

 

And I think emotions are needed. Haha. Even if I don't like them sometimes, they also help enhance life. If you didn't feel happiness or sorrow or joy life would be so dull.

 

I like art. And art is something that can be scientific and also appeals to aesthetics and emotions. I think that's the beauty of it. I consider myself a very logical person. I like logical people more than overly emotional people...

 

On the other hand I like things that are emotional. I do cry every time I watch The Lion King... <.<

 

Music is emotion. So many songs are about emotions. I think without the ability to feel emotion there would really be no music.

 

But aside from that, I think my MAIN point I would like to make... is this thread is about wolves. So if you want to talk about other animals go to another thread. No one is stopping you. If you want to talk about the animals you like most, go to another thread... It's not like us wolf-lovers are trying to not let anyone talk about other animals...

 

It's just this thread is about wolves. :b

[Vexx]

Not like we have to talk about how SUPERAWESOMESPECTACULAR wolves are, either. :b saying that all wolves should be shot in the face and skinned before being left for vultures to eat is still talking about wolves, after all. (Not my opinion, just a point).

 

 

And emoticons. As in the stupid little round faces.

Hate them, I wish they didn't exist.

[Ulquiorra+Cuatro+Espada]

Yes, I know. But I felt people were saying how we shouldn't talk about wolves... Or more that we shouldn't like them.

 

...

 

I just freakin' like the animals. Look, I respect everyone's opinion but it feels like no one respects the opinion of us who say "hey, I like wolves". It feels as if people are like, trying to get me to stop liking them and like other animals more... O___o ? The argument is "other animals are more interesting". That's great. But I like wolves and find them interesting. So, I will talk about them. Especially in a thread about wolves.

 

And I also understand that we can talk about how we don't think wolves are that great (or about killing them which I think is wrong in most cases) but yes. I see the point. I just don't like people seeming like... I don't know, I'm wasting my time liking them....

 

And yeah, I agree with you there. The only emoticons that should exist are and

 

Haha.

Edited September 18, 2010 by Ulquiorra+Cuatro+Espada

[Vexx]

Well, there's no problem with liking wolves. It's just using that view to base your ideas of things that's annoying.

"OMGZ THEY'RE GETTIN KILLED ALL THE TIME AND ARE ENDANGERED AND OMGZ THEY R BETTAR THAN ERYTHIN AN DESERV BETTAR"

 

There's a difference between 'liking wolves' and 'wolfaboo'. Since there seems to be more wolfaboos than the previous (or they're louder, at least), the folks that simply like wolves seem to be yelled at for all the shiz that wolfaboos bring down upon the rest of us. :c Kinda sucks for them.

[Ulquiorra+Cuatro+Espada]

Well, I still think we should care about wolves.... They don't deserved to be killed.

 

I for one don't like hunting as it is. Unless it is something you do as a cultural practice and/or use the animal for something other than decoration. Something practical, like eating.

 

But I think we need to stop the aerial hunting of wolves. That's horrible. I cannot stomach the idea. That's something where the wolves deserve "oh my goodness those poor animals".

 

 

[Vexx]

Whales are going extinct as well, they are constantly being hunted and killed by people who claim to do it for 'research' but are really just selling their meat. The people that try to keep things like that from happening are also having their own lives threatened by these people.

The polar bears are dying out as well because of the melting ice, losing their hunting grounds and starving.

There are very few Bengal Tigers in the wild anymore.

The rainbow parrot fish is considered endangered due to loss of its mangrove nursery habitat.

 

There's a list of endangered animals here. Have a look. 4 of these are wolves, all far South or, one of them anyway, Africa.

 

There's many other things that can use that sort of care about being killed off than wolves.

[RheaZen]

Whales are going extinct as well, they are constantly being hunted and killed by people who claim to do it for 'research' but are really just selling their meat. The people that try to keep things like that from happening are also having their own lives threatened by these people.

The polar bears are dying out as well because of the melting ice, losing their hunting grounds and starving.

There are very few Bengal Tigers in the wild anymore.

The rainbow parrot fish is considered endangered due to loss of its mangrove nursery habitat.

 

There's a list of endangered animals here. Have a look. 4 of these are wolves, all far South or, one of them anyway, Africa.

 

There's many other things that can use that sort of care about being killed off than wolves.

Nobody thinks of the invertebrate endangered species :<

[Ulquiorra+Cuatro+Espada]

See, this is what I mean.

 

People are trying to belittle those who like wolves and do want to protect them.

 

Okay, I got your point the first time. There are more endangered animals. I know.

 

But that doesn't mean we can still want to protect wolves along with these animals.

 

It's just this pompous air of "oh wolves are just not as special, don't you get it? Why bother caring about them?"

 

...

 

Because I care about them?

 

Dogs aren't endangered at all. Neither are cats. But I care about them. I volunteered at an animal shelter to help those without homes. But, seeing as they aren't rare or endangered was it a waste of time to help them and care about them?

 

I hope not. All that picking up poop and cleaning litter boxes would have been in vain...

 

That's what I have the problem with. Is this attitude people seem to have of "let's not care about the wolves at all".

[Vexx]

Well, I don't mind wanting to protect the wolves.... just stop making it sound like the last two wolves out in the wild are being hunted relentlessly by the evil folks in the helicopters. Because, really, they aren't endangered. Not those wolves, anyway.

 

I plan on perhaps volunteering/opening my own little bat habitat type of thing to take care of bats that fall from the sky for some reason or another, the abandoned babies, the sickly, etc etc. Just because I like bats. Are they some SUPERSPECIALENDANGEREDSPECIES? No. And I'm not even going to try to tell people they are.

 

Then there's also the fact that wolves are, y'know, carnivores. If there's too many in the wild, there's the problem of random livestock coming up dead. So of course there's gotta be population control. Would you rather them just nab a bunch and try to neuter/spay 'em? Think that'd even really be all that helpful? Considering people just hunt to begin with, may as well let 'em hunt.

[Ulquiorra+Cuatro+Espada]

But that's the thing. I know wolves aren't super duper endangered. In fact they've made quite a comeback!

 

But Mexican Gray Wolves are very endangered... They do need to be protected. Definitely.

 

So are Red Wolves.

 

And Ethiopian Wolves. Ethiopian Wolves are the most endangered canid.

 

Also, most people are talking about Gray wolves, Canis Lupus. Many of the subspecies of the gray wolf are threatened or endangered.

 

But still, aerial hunting is WRONG. Wrong in the wrongest sense. If other animals are being hunted this way, I strongly oppose it. It's a very inhumane practice. Just because they aren't endangered doesn't mean they have to be treated in this manner.

 

I guess I don't have a problem with hunting. Well, I don't like it. But I understand people hunt. I guess what I really hate is people taking pictures with the dead animals and smiling and posing with them. Ugg.

 

The wild normally took care of population control. This is why scientists are very interested in Isle Royale in Northern Michigan. It's a perfect example to a healthy predator-prey system in the wild. For the most part they keep each other balanced. We humans kind of mess things up and throw it off balance... Ha...

Edited September 18, 2010 by Ulquiorra+Cuatro+Espada

[Vexx]

We humans kind of mess things up and throw it off balance... Ha...

If it were up to us, I'm pretty sure every animal would be used for meat/fur. =w= Humans suck.

 

I don't think there's any sport in aerial hunting, myself. If you want to hunt something, take the time to try to track down the animal, stay silent, yadda yadda. Unfair advantage with the guns, but it's still better than just picking them off like fish in a barrel.

And the posing with the dead... Mostly for proof they did it than anything. Don't want a "Caught one THIS big!" fake story, after all.

 

Well, the endangered ones aren't hunted, though. Not legally, anyway. :b Of course they're protected, don't have to worry about that.

So again, I dunno why most wolf-lovers just go on and on about the endangered ones... As far as I know, anyone who is caught killing anything endangered is punished severely. Wolf or not.

[Ulquiorra+Cuatro+Espada]

Woot!! Humans suck!

 

Haha.

 

I mentioned the endangered ones to make a point that some wolves ARE endangered. The ones I mentioned are very endangered. Some of the subspecies are very endangered as well and THESE ones people do kill. Usually because they are in countries who have little to no laws that protect animals.. =___=

 

Yes. See, I love wolves. So I want to be informed about them. Haha. I don't like people who talk about how pretty or special they are but know nothing about the real animal. It's just cotton candy fluff.

 

I've actually read a lot of books on wolves that were fascinating. I really recommend "Wolf: Legend, Enemy, Icon" by Rebecca L. Grambo. It was such a great read. It went over how wolves went from a legend that were revered as gods and brothers by humans to evil minions of Satan who were hunted because they were wolves, to a symbol of the wild and mysterious animals (there are still many things to discover about them! Wolves avoid humans for the most part. And I don't blame them...)

 

Why I love wolves:

 

They are the music of the wild. It's a very haunting, striking sound. It's so melancholy. I love howls.

 

Lucky person. What a cool video.

 

And this is my wolf, Tristan, howling hahaha

 

He has a funny howl. :b

 

 

[Callicantzari]

http://www.davemech.org/

 

David Mech is one of the bigger names in wolf research and has been for awhile. He's a pretty good source for actual academic information on the subject. For those here of an age to be able to assimilate more technical papers, his website has a list of his published articles and a couple that can be downloaded.

 

 

I don't know where you live, Vexx but if you're interested in programs to help bats there's a lot going on in the eastern US with white nose syndrome right now. And I'm sure you know about Bat Conservation International as a good starting point to find bat info.

 

Wolves are neat but, yeah, I'm a bat lady myself.

[Kila]

I just like wolves. I'm sick of people telling me reasons why they aren't great. They are. Animals are great. I love other animals.

 

I have a standard poodle. So, I know. She's a very smart dog.

 

And dogs still have a pack mentality. Dogs will make rankings within a home. Dogs have instincts they still follow. If you have ever watched Cesar Milan, he works with this "dog psychology" and most of it is dogs' instincts and how their brains function. And they make packs within their own species. Having two dogs in your home, I bet one is an alpha and one is a beta. Sorry, but dogs still have pack instincts within their own species. Simple fact. But also, wolves in the wild NEED to be in a pack. It's their way of surviving. They hunt large prey that they need more than one wolf to take down. Lone wolves don't do so well. Wolves in a pack have a much better chance of survival, even then it's a tough life. Wolves typically live 3 to 5 years in the wild.

 

But you say some dogs are stronger than wolves. Um, so? Bears are stronger than wolves. But the point of this argument is intelligence, not strength. Wolves still have more strength than some dogs, especially in jaw strength. The biting capacity of a wolf is 1,000 to 1,500 pounds of pressure per square inch. The strength of a wolf's jaws makes it possible to bite through a moose femur in six to eight bites. In comparison, a German shepherd has a biting pressure of 750 pounds per square inch. So yeah, wolves are still strong animals.

 

Yes, wolves aren't as "nifty" as dogs. Dogs have been breed to preform specific actions and therefore are better suited or stronger than wolves. But as I said before, we have our dogs because we have wolves. So without wolves we wouldn't have been able to make our breeds of man's best friend.

 

They do have brains that are 10% larger than dogs that are roughly around their same size. And wolves are big. Really big. My wolf is easily as tall as I am on his hind legs. And I'm nearly 6 feet tall. His paws are the size of my hand.

 

And perhaps you say dogs are smarter, because we've taken the time to TRAIN dogs. To perform tasks for us. Wolves, well, are wild. We don't train them. And if we do, on some level, they are surprisingly clever. Wolves can learn these things that make a dog seem smart, like being able to open a gate or follow human instructions. In fact, wolves who were raised by humans were found to follow human gestures much better than domestic dogs.

 

And since when does "well-trained" equal "more intelligent"? Cats are very intelligent animals, but they don't seem to learn "tricks". They are more independent and are incredibly resourceful and self-reliant". Where canines are more of pack animals.

 

Studies in the early 1980s showed that wolves, from which dogs probably descended, can unlock a gate after watching a human do it once, while dogs remained stumped after watching repeatedly.

 

Now people found the dogs actually learned this faster than thought, but they were waiting for their master's command. So it seems the dogs and wolves could both learn it, but the wolf didn't need a command to prompt they behavior. It just did what it wanted to do to get what it wanted, and that is the open gate.

 

So wolves that are raised by people can also learn things very quickly. But most wolves are wild, and don't need to communicate or interact with people.

 

I think animals like ravens and others you mentioned are very smart, and could be smarter than a wolf. But that's not my point. My point is wolves ARE smart. I don't care if you don't like them or like other animals more than them. That's fine. Not everyone has the same favorite animal. I'm just saying they are smart.

 

And actually, dogs have been able to perform tasks chimpanzees failed at. So if a dog could do it, a wolf would also have the capability.

 

And yeah, I'm biased because I like wolves. But I've done an immense amount of reading and research on them. I've seen them up close. They all had human-like qualities beyond a doubt. And besides, seeing as you don't like wolves that much, or think other animals are better, you too have a bias. You just are on the opposite side. So saying I have a bias to undermine my arguments doesn't work because most of the time, we are biased. Everyone has biases on issues. And its great you find other animals more interesting. That's cool. I find wolves interesting. I love them. I'm going to be honest and say that. I love dogs too. But wolves are my favorite animals.

You haven't been reading my earlier posts, have you?

 

I love wolves. I have spent a lot of time researching them, up close and through other means. I just can put that aside to realize that other animals are superior, and that they're not the most super special awesome animal on the planet. So I've devoted my time to looking into other animals while trying to put myself through school. I have no issue with people liking wolves. I have a huge problem with people who can't get over the fact that wolves are not the most super special animal. Translation? I hate Wolfaboos.

 

I never said that domestic dogs didn't have a pack structure. They do.

 

And please note that pack mentality =/= basic intelligence. I've stated it before. It's imitation and instinct. It's essentially a more basic (perhaps refined is the word I'm looking for?) mob behavior. I also never said they weren't smart. I said dogs were more intelligent.

 

That 1980's study you used, I'd like to see the source. Intelligence varies among individuals. My Jackrat is an absolute idiot when it comes to puzzles (thought she can still figure out how to open boxes to get treats, go figure), but one of her brothers is highly intelligent. It's like people. Intelligence varies and there are genetic defects that cause things like mental retardation. So the study could have been incomplete or conducted incorrectly. It's also very possible that it's outdated.

 

Also, the point of my argument was that dogs are superior to wolves. Which they are. They're more useful than wolves will ever be to people, can preform more tasks (some without training; but some dogs, like guide dogs, will require that training). They can still figure things out on their own and solve basic puzzles. Some dogs even pick up on things on their own. My Uncle's dog Baxter is a Lab. He never had to be taught how to retrieve. He just did it. On the flip side, my dog Mara plays catch and flee. We still haven't been able to get her to return the damn ball, even after twelve years.

 

I would never trust a wolf with my life, in all honesty. A wolf would be more likely to take my life, because they are still wild animals. Even when raised by hand. Take a look at bears and big cats that have been born and raised in captivity. They still have to potential to turn on their caretakers, and many have.

 

I'm having trouble finding some exact reputable studies on the bite force of domestic dogs, though. It is generally agreed that Rottweilers have the most powerful bite force of domestic dogs (at least of the more common breeds, if I understand correctly). However, the wider the jaw, the more powerful the bite force. Wolves are also wild animals. They will generally have a stronger bite force than a domestic dog. Doesn't mean that a Wolfhound still wouldn't kill them for trying to hunt livestock, because it's what they were bred to do. they were bred to be superior to wolves. We created the next step in canine evolution. Whether it's going down the right track now is debatable. We don't have as much need for working dogs as we once did, so some of the breed deviates, and it's just a whole mess of complex.

 

I apologize if I've missed any of your other arguments. I'm not feeling the best today because I'm sick, so if I miss something point it out and I'll try and get back to it when my head's not going to explode.