Abortion

[HeroLink42]

YES ! I know two people who were adopted into families who - apparently - really wanted them - but who had unpleasant childhoods, where they were forced into moulds that simply didn't fit them. To this day one of them - the one who was beaten to try and make her follow a particular religious path that felt wrong to her cannot bear to have anything to do with her adoptive parents. They wanted a child. But - what for ? To force it to be something they wanted ? That's like playing at dolls. They keep trying to get in touch, and she keeps moving to get away from them...

 

I also know of a case where a family who adopted a child who turned out to have a personality disorder went back to the agency and told them to get rid of him for them, and they didn't want him any more. Adoption is not a bed of roses.

 

And yes to the rest of your post too.

This is exactly why I can't stand it when people say "Oh well you can always put it up for adoption". I believe every child should be wanted and no child should be put through what those two were put through. I once read a news article about a couple who adopted a girl and abuseed her under the guise that "the bible told them to." (NOT a jab at religion, just an example of how many adoptive parents are not fit to be parents AT ALL.)

If I had been aborted, I wouldn't have cared. I wouldn't exist. And I think I would have been much more grateful for that than having to live a life unwanted or in horrible conditions.

 

Okay, I understand where your coming from, and as an adopted child, life really /wasn't/ all rainbows and butterflies. I had phenomena, had to get all of y back teeth pulled at around age seven -- and let me tell you, it hurt like heck -- but that doesn't mean there /isn't/ a brighter future out there for teens/children that don't have a home, and have to stay in a orphanage. You shouldn't pity people who've probably become so hardened to that way of life it's like a second skin. Adopted children /do/ have a lot more problems than non-adopted ones, it's true, but still. It just kinda.. got on my nerves. i'm not trying to bash at you, just trying to clarify some stuff. <:

 

I'm not trying to say that all adopted children don't have bright futures at all. I'm sorry if we come off this way! I know it does take a lot of strenght to go through all that. I know a few people who have been adopted who have amazing futures ahead of them too. I'm in no way putting down adoption in general. I just don't think it should be the "solution" to abortions. Though I enjoy hearing the thoughts and experiences of those who have been adopted.

Edited August 8, 2012 by HeroLink42

[Ashes The Second]

I'm not trying to say that all adopted children don't have bright futures at all. I'm sorry if we come off this way! I know it does take a lot of strenght to go through all that. I know a few people who have been adopted who have amazing futures ahead of them too. I'm in no way putting down adoption in general. I just don't think it should be the "solution" to abortions. Though I enjoy hearing the thoughts and experiences of those who have been adopted.

And I completely understand that, just wanted to put my opinion out there. Thanks for listening. :3

[Fuzzbucket]

Yes - to be fair I also know people who were adopted and were delighted with their childhoods. (I even know an adult man who was adopted and who to this day doesn't know he was... I often wonder if he would see his childhood differently if he ever found out.)

[Obscure_Trash]

While we are on the subject of adoption, I'd also like to point out how utterly hard it can be on the mother. Lots of people bring up how abortion can be hard for a mother but how hard adoption can be on the mother is rarely discussed. Lots of people bring up how hard adoption is on kids but rarely on how it affects the mother.

 

Warning for language and mature situations: Her Bad Mother - Abortion Means Never Having to Say You're Sorry About abortion and adoption and how it made the women feel.

Warning for language and mature situations: Breaking the Silence: On Living Pro-Lifers' Choice for Women A pretty non-neutral piece on the difference in having an abortion and having an adoption.

[Fuzzbucket]

This too. A friend of mine who was forced to give her child up in the 60s would love to know how her son is doing, and never will. (because unless HE makes the approach, she doesn't have that right. She has put her name up wherever it can be done - but nothing...)

[HeroLink42]

SockPuppet Strangler, thank you. I read both in their entirety and started tearing up. Particularly at the second one. You have an amazing point that most people don't even think about all of the emotional pain that birthmothers go through. I'm at the point where I want to print those stories out and start handing them out to all the people who insist that adoption is the only option that's in the best interest of the mother and child.

[Sorrowgrave]

On Men's Rights Activists and Reproductive Justice: Men's rights activists complain that men aren't getting a "say" in reproductive rights, which is a mendacious argument of epic proportions. Men have plenty of "say" over reproductive decisions—but it all happens before the pregnancy. They have "say" in choosing the women with whom they choose to have sex. They have "say" over whether they choose to discuss in depth with a partner what they would do in the case of an unintended pregnancy—and what their partners would do. They have "say" in determining what kind of sex they have with a partner. They have "say" over whether they put a condom on, if they choose to engage in PIV sex. Once a woman is pregnant, men's legal "say" ends. They don't have the right to demand abortion, and they don't have the right to demand carrying the fetus to term, because conferring those rights would allow them to exact control over another human's body, which is simply an untenable position. That's why making wise decisions in the first place is key. And if men's right activists don't like that, they need to take it up with the Almighty, or the Intelligent Designer, or Mother Nature, or whatever, which in its infinite wisdom decided that only some bodies (generally female bodies, but not always) should have the ability to get pregnant.

 

this SO much....

 

 

[~Kat~]

Unborn babies can feel pain

 

Scientific evidence reveals that unborn babies do, indeed, feel pain

 

http://www.mccl.org/unborn-babies-can-feel-pain.html

 

New law claims a fetus can feel pain

 

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn1878...-feel-pain.html

[Rosedamai]

Unborn babies can feel pain

 

Scientific evidence reveals that unborn babies do, indeed, feel pain

 

http://www.mccl.org/unborn-babies-can-feel-pain.html

 

New law claims a fetus can feel pain

 

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn1878...-feel-pain.html

After 20 weeks. That's far later than the first trimester, which is the period where most abortions are performed.

Edited August 9, 2012 by ylangylang

[AngelKitty]

Unborn babies can feel pain

 

Scientific evidence reveals that unborn babies do, indeed, feel pain

 

http://www.mccl.org/unborn-babies-can-feel-pain.html

 

New law claims a fetus can feel pain

 

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn1878...-feel-pain.html

Can they comprehend that pain? Even jellyfish will react to something poking at it and react if it senses it's in danger.

 

Also, laws =/= scientific research. In fact, politicians tend to ignore the science, research, and logic when they want things their way.

 

Also also, 20 weeks is fairly late compared to when most abortions happen (the first trimester, before 13 weeks, well before the 20 weeks these articles discuss).

 

I could go on about the fact that women can also experience pain, physical and emotional, that can last for a very long time (years, even), but I think everyone here knows that.

[ShinyTomato]

Unborn babies can feel pain

 

So can tumors who were once fetuses. Feeling pain is not indicative of personhood.

[Shakirie]

I'm neither for or against it. It's each persons own personal right to decide whether they wish to abort their baby.

 

I, however, do not support all the arguments of it being cruel. How come something is only cruel if it's done to humans nowadays? When you take a female animal in to get spayed, and she's pregnant, they will abort her offspring just to fix her, instead of waiting. This is completely different from humans. Animals don't get to make their own decisions like we do.

 

Besides, there's over 7 billion people on this earth already.

[Brite]

Unborn babies can feel pain

 

Scientific evidence reveals that unborn babies do, indeed, feel pain

 

http://www.mccl.org/unborn-babies-can-feel-pain.html

 

New law claims a fetus can feel pain

 

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn1878...-feel-pain.html

Abortions in the trimester allowed can't.

 

So can tumors who were once fetuses. Feeling pain is not indicative of personhood.

 

Wow, didn't know that, thanks, Shiny.

 

Therefore, argument on that one, is invalid

[wonton55912]

People can do whatever they want IMO, as long as they aren't, you know, killing something AFTER it was born. Or aborting illegally.

That's just cruel. And illegal.

 

Though if I happen to SOMEHOW (and this will likely never happen) get pregnant before I'm ready, I'd rather get rid of it before it could have complete thoughts than have what I created mentally screwed up in every way in a foster home in a few years.

[St. Jimmy]

People can do whatever they want IMO, as long as they aren't, you know, killing something AFTER it was born. Or aborting illegally.

Which would happen a lot less if abortion were kept legal.

[~Kat~]

Just heard this on the news.

 

Mississippi has the highest rate of teen pregnancies in the USA at the moment

 

They also said that the tax payers are the ones that are hit hardest by this where I live.

 

I did not make that up.

 

I did some research and here is what I found from 2006

 

A September 2006 report by the Guttmacher Institute compiled teenage pregnancy statistics in the United States gathered state by state in 2000. Based on available data, below are listings of states ranked by pregnancy and birth rates.

 

1. 1.Nevada (113)

2. Arizona (104)

3. Mississippi (103)

4. New Mexico (103)

5. Texas (101)

6. Florida (97)

7. California (96)

8. Georgia (95)

9. North Carolina (95)

10. Arkansas (93)

 

http://womensissues.about.com/od/datingand...nPregStates.htm

 

You understand why I feel like I do when my hard earned money has to help support these babies, because most of these people can not. So they have to get handouts from the government as well, when this is so unfair.

 

Because their parents do not teach them, or these immature children do not listen, I am in favor of it being taught in school.

 

This is why I am also against abortion because a lot of these children did not have to become pregnant either.

 

I know most of you are for abortion. But, instead of abortion, how would you go about preventing and helping others from becoming pregnant?

 

I do believe in abortion for the right reasons as most of you know, but not for the young children playing grown ups and can not even afford, or let alone know how to raise a baby.

Edited August 12, 2012 by ~Kat~

[7Deadly$ins]

It's sort of preaching to the choir around here if youre arguing for better sex ed.

Edited August 12, 2012 by 7Deadly$ins

[LascielsShadow]

Because their parents do not teach them, or these immature children do not listen, I am in favor of it being taught in school.

 

This is why I am also against abortion because a lot of these children did not have to become pregnant either.

 

I know most of you are for abortion. But, instead of abortion, how would you go about preventing and helping others from becoming pregnant?

 

I do believe in abortion for the right reasons as most of you know, but not for the young children playing grown ups and can not even afford, or let alone know how to raise a baby.

I'm pretty sure that every single one of us here is for better sex ed, which would be how we'd do it. The problem is not teens "not listening", it's them not being taught anything beyond "don't have sex" in the first place. In a lot of places, there's nothing for them to be listening to except the same old "Sex is bad and if you do it before you get married you'll go to hell."

 

The parents of most of the teens affected by abstinence-only education are not going to be much help on rectifying the situation because 1, they probably don't know much more than their kids, as it's likely they're *also* products of abstinence-only education, and 2, they're generally proponents of abstinence-only education and thus don't WANT to teach their children anything other than "don't have sex". Of course, either the parents or the schools, or preferably both, should be educating teens (and younger children), but that's not likely to happen until some serious change in policies in a number of states occurs.

 

Better access to contraception of all kinds would be a massive help, too. I say all kinds, because it's always better to double up, and there are some people (like me) who can't use certain kinds. They/we ought to be able to access whichever type(s) will work best for them. I suspect that part of the problem, at least in some cases, is women/girls not being able to get hold of the kind of contraception that would actually work for them.

Edited August 12, 2012 by LascielsShadow

[WereJace]

Just heard this on the news.

 

Mississippi has the highest rate of teen pregnancies in the USA at the moment

 

They also said that the tax payers are the ones that are hit hardest by this where I live.

 

I did not make that up.

 

I did some research and here is what I found from 2006

 

A September 2006 report by the Guttmacher Institute compiled teenage pregnancy statistics in the United States gathered state by state in 2000. Based on available data, below are listings of states ranked by pregnancy and birth rates.

 

1. 1.Nevada (113)

2. Arizona (104)

3. Mississippi (103)

4. New Mexico (103)

5. Texas (101)

6. Florida (97)

7. California (96)

8. Georgia (95)

9. North Carolina (95)

10. Arkansas (93)

 

http://womensissues.about.com/od/datingand...nPregStates.htm

 

You understand why I feel like I do when my hard earned money has to help support these babies, because most of these people can not. So they have to get handouts from the government as well, when this is so unfair.

 

Because their parents do not teach them, or these immature children do not listen, I am in favor of it being taught in school.

 

This is why I am also against abortion because a lot of these children did not have to become pregnant either.

 

I know most of you are for abortion. But, instead of abortion, how would you go about preventing and helping others from becoming pregnant?

 

I do believe in abortion for the right reasons as most of you know, but not for the young children playing grown ups and can not even afford, or let alone know how to raise a baby.

Comprehensive, blunt, HONEST sex ed that cannot be opted out of, coupled with distributing contraceptives like freaking candy. Free. Easy to access for anyone at any time, without any questions beyond making sure they're medically suitable.

 

And safe, legal, access to comprehensive, blunt, honest womens health services including abortion.

Edited August 12, 2012 by WereJace

[hydrargyrum]

I do believe in abortion for the right reasons as most of you know, but not for the young children playing grown ups and can not even afford, or let alone know how to raise a baby.

So who should abortion be for? Isn't not being able to afford or not knowing how to raise a child a good enough reason to get an abortion if you want one? It would be wonderful to live in a world where everyone fully knows how to take care of themselves and prevent pregnancy, but the fact is that we DON'T, and simply saying that we should doesn't solve the issue.

 

It is something we need to work on, there is absolutely no denying that. You're right that it is a major problem and that it's something that needs to be fixed. However, I think your personal experience of both receiving and giving good sex education makes it hard for you to see that it's not so easy for so many people. Unfortunately, your parenting style is not as common as it should be, and for many who don't have that education, they don't even know that they don't know. Forcing them to have a child does not help solve the issue, and instead creates another life that is very likely to receive the same education his or her mother did.

 

The teenager shouldn't be blamed for the lessons they were never taught by the adults. We absolutely need to correct this problem with the education system, but in the meantime, we shouldn't try to prevent them from getting an abortion if they feel like it's the right decision.

[lightbird]

I do believe in abortion for the right reasons as most of you know, but not for the young children playing grown ups and can not even afford, or let alone know how to raise a baby.

So, basically you're saying that that kid who couldn't afford bringing up a child should be forced to give birth to it.

 

That sounds incredibly backwards to me.

 

Note: I think that comprehensive sex ed is MUST, but tbh, I think that in cases like these ^ having an abortion actually IS taking more responsibility for everyone involved, including the potential happiness of the fetus, if it happened to be born.

Edited August 12, 2012 by lightbird

[~Kat~]

I have already stated how I feel about abortion and I know how most of you feel about abotion. We all know that abortion is there if parents of these teenagers want them to have an abortion.

 

I am simply asking if any of you could come up with a solution to help make the teenagers aware of how not to get pregnant by some sort of education if the parents will not give it to them. Any of you that have been pregnant had an abortion, or gave birth and kept the baby or adopted, and were not aware of how not to get pregnant, do you not think you could come up with somthing that would be a better alternative than to have a teenager get pregnant and maybe go through guilt feeling of the abortion or adoption later in life as some of you have described.

 

Some of these same teenagers that get pregnant, end up getting pregnant again. To keep on having abortions is not good for ones body in the long run.

 

 

[Rosedamai]

I have already stated how I feel about abortion and I know how most of you feel about abotion. We all know that abortion is there if parents of these teenagers want them to have an abortion.

 

I am simply asking if any of you could come up with a solution to help make the teenagers aware of how not to get pregnant by some sort of education if the parents will not give it to them. Any of you that have been pregnant had an abortion, or gave birth and kept the baby or adopted, and were not aware of how not to get pregnant, do you not think you could come up with somthing that would be a better alternative than to have a teenager get pregnant and maybe go through guilt feeling of the abortion or adoption later in life as some of you have described.

 

Some of these same teenagers that get pregnant, end up getting pregnant again. To keep on having abortions is not good for ones body in the long run.

Thing is, a parent can pull his/her child out of sex ed classes in some instances, or so I've heard, so unless you're suggesting pulling the kid into some sort of, I don't know, a place where they can learn real sex ed, which would be hard to do anyways because by that age they've probably heard weird facts about sex so much that they wouldn't really believe you, I don't think there's a way to really tell them without informing the parents first.

[Fuzzbucket]

Good sex ed, including details of contraception methods, ideally done by specially trained nurses (so you don't get feeble embarrassed teachers blushing their way through talking about frogs...) IN ALL schools - private, public, independent and religious; no exceptions of any kind - from Grade 3 onwards (earlier I'd say but I can imagine the fallout here if I did) - compulsory for all kids, with no exceptions for the children of small minded parents. Including relationship education - which is usually sadly neglected, and which adds respecting the body - your own and those of others - and the feelings and wishes of others, which is a big help.

 

If a parent keeps their kid away that day - the kid will then receive it as individual tuition. NO exceptions. NOT ONE !

 

Look at Scandinavia and the Netherlands - both places where this happens. The rate of teenage pregnancy is WAY lower than in the UK and the US. Though also - and abortion is freely available. As it, too, must be.

[St. Jimmy]

We all know that abortion is there if parents of these teenagers want them to have an abortion.

This is one of the very few times when I disagree with abortion. The parents shouldn't be able to force someone to get one.

 

Also, I kind of take offense to what you keep saying about "children playing grown ups." Plenty of teens who have sex are mature and responsible.