Abortion

[Shienvien]

I do not feel that is taking responsibility to have an abortion when they could have prevented it in the first place.

Having an abortion is always taking responsibility. It is perhaps not as agreeable method of it as doing everything one can to avoid becoming pregnant in the first place, but it is taking responsibility regardless.

 

you would find you do not have to use anything to be safe.

How, exactly? (If we leave sterilization and abstinence aside.)

[Fuzzbucket]

I can not have anymore children, so I do not have to take any contraceptives.

 

As a matter of fact, a year after I was married, I went off contraceptives, but we made sure not to get pregnant. There are so many ways not to get pregnant, and you do not have to abstain form sex either. If people would do research, you would find you do not have to use anything to be safe.

 

How do you come up with thinking I am not intimate,

I didn't come up wit the idea - I just wondered. You did say why have sex if you don't want to get pregnant !

 

But my sister - a doctor - firmly believes in the doctrine of the flying sperm.... As she says, NO method is 100% except removal of the woman's ovaries. Even a hysterectomy leaving the ovaries in place (as I had for other reasons entirely) CAN (if you are INCREDIBLY unlucky and are left with even the tiniest space in your vaginal vault - excuse me, teenagers !) leave you with an ectopic pregnancy.

 

My parents raised me to be responsible - and even so... and many PARENTS fail - and then their CHILDREN are the ones who end up pregnant through total ignorance. If you've been told a load of rubbish about how babies are made, you aren't going to have the knowledge to avoid pregnancy.

 

And once you realise you can't actually get pregnant by sitting on a chair after a boy sat there first (I kid you not; there is a thread here somewhere where I posted a oad of stuff I found teenagers believed while I was at work on a Teen Pregnancy project !!) - why believe anything else they told you - there is NOT a baby under the gooseberry bush either...

[~Kat~]

Having an abortion is always taking responsibility. It is perhaps not as agreeable method of it as doing everything one can to avoid becoming pregnant in the first place, but it is taking responsibility regardless.

 

 

How, exactly? (If we leave sterilization and abstinence aside.)

Like I said, do research or talk to a dr. I will not go into it as you have younger children on here.

 

It seems many would rather take the easier way out instead of looking for answers or trying to learn from others.

 

 

[lightbird]

Like I said, do research or talk to a dr. I will not go into it as you have younger children on here.

 

It seems many would rather take the easier way out instead of looking for answers or trying to learn from others.

Not everybody has a perfect, unchanging menstrual cycle.

And I don't think that discussing medical things goes agaisnt it being PG-13. It's not porn, you know.

Edited August 7, 2012 by lightbird

[Fuzzbucket]

If you mean withdrawal - that is TERMINALLY unreliable. If you mean working out ovulation dates and so on - even with the old thermometer and the rest - occasionally orgasm can trigger a sudden egg release even if your cycle is usually regular. If you mean non-penetrative sex - sperm has a nasty habit of getting around anyway. See under Flying Sperm (above)

 

Advice columns in women's magazines are full of intelligent women asking how their method could possibly have failed.

[Shienvien]

Like I said, do research or talk to a dr. I will not go into it as you have younger children on here.

I have done research, and have never heard of a single properly proven reliable method of some kind which does not involve using contraceptives of any kind, does not mean sterilization, and does not include total abstinence, which would make a woman be even remotely (95%+ effectiveness) safe from becoming pregnant. I am fairly certain that even if I asked an actual doctor, I'd get the exact same result as with my current knowledge. - It is because of that why I am interested in this/those method(s) you claim exists.

 

(You can always respond in PM if you think even the basic principle of such should not be read by the non-adult members of the site.)

 

[~Kat~]

I didn't come up wit the idea - I just wondered. You did say why have sex if you don't want to get pregnant !

 

Maybe you saw what I posted when it came to social bonding perhaps.

 

I have had a healthy sex life through my life and still have one thankfully.

 

To others

 

I am not saying that the methods are full proof at all I did. I was just very careful of know ing my body, how it regulated and using other methods not being on the pill.

[Rosedamai]

I am not saying that the methods are full proof at all I did. I was just very careful of know ing my body, how it regulated and using other methods not being on the pill.

Kat, I feel that you're and honest, kind person. That said, not everyone has the knowledge or the time even to know how their bodies work and such. I've known a person with a very irregular ovulation cycle who got pregnant-she did not know as she fluctuates between, oh, menstruating twice in 20 days and not menstruating at all in about 3 months-and by the time she found out she was pregnant, it was too late. You've repeatedly said that you condemn only those who know what they might be getting into and who doesn't care, so I won't go further into this issue. I am just curious to why you think having a child should be some form of punishment. I would argue that a child is a blessing, a gift and should be treated as such. I have a hard time imagining why anyone would want to bestow untold suffering on a child who would go through hardships as a parent/both parents would not want the said child, and why anyone would doubt the mother's decision on when they can have a child or not. I've also said untold, countless times what it is like in certain third-world countries if an unwed mother has a baby-which you seem to think of as a suitable punishment for, of all things, having sex-the details of which I'd consider as a form of punishment, if it can be said, that is way more harsh than what their "irresponsibility" entails. Not to mention that you're basically coming off as "oh, those other people were not very careful, they were irresponsible" etc, which many people have pointed out doesn't even consist of even 10% of all abortions. So I'm just curious as to whether you're against abortion in certain cases or in all cases.

Edited August 7, 2012 by ylangylang

[babybluefire]

Yea, fertility awareness only works if you have a regular, normal menstrual cycle with clear and obvious signs. I personally can have cycles that are from 23-46 days on average and no fertility signs one month and extremely obvious ones the next. It would never work for me.

[Shienvien]

Yea, fertility awareness only works if you have a regular, normal menstrual cycle with clear and obvious signs.

Plus, it is ridiculously probable that even if one does have perfectly regular cycle with very obvious signs (not all that common) for a significant time, there'd be just that one fluctuation in it - and that one fluctuation suffices completely to do the trick. It can be freely said that all methods which rely on 'knowing your body' aren't even remotely sufficient for one to feel 'safe'. Rather, those could borderline be grouped with the urban myths.

[Brite]

For people who know how not to get pregnant, but do, I do not feel that is taking responsibility to have an abortion when they could have prevernted it in the first place. Can you not agree?

 

Two sides to that. Yes I think it's irresponsible for a couple to use nothing to protect themselves and get upset when they're pregnant. BUT, I think it's more irresponsible if they think about just abandoning it to a terrible system when abortion can save a terrible life before it begins.

Edited August 7, 2012 by GhostChilli

[Fuzzbucket]

http://iwasateenagemisogynist.wordpress.co...just-pro-fetus/

^ ^

[dragonheart1999]

Some people honestly don't know that unprotected sex will cause babies, because education in some places is just that terrible.

 

Others use faulty methods, such as the pull-out method or have incorrect beliefs about when a human female is most fertile and thus most likely to be pregnant.

 

Others use protection but do so incorrectly, not knowing the right and wrong way to use things.

 

Others use protection but it fails.

ok i didn't think of that thank you.

 

Great point.

 

No I did not feel it is an accident myself most times. Those people are living for the moment because it feels good and probably think oh, I can get an abortion. (Ok, before you all attack me, I am am talking about the people who know how not to get pregnant but will not use any form of birth control. I am not talking about the people who have never been taught you can get pregnant) We have a brain to think with that puts us higher than most things.

 

For every action there is a reaction that happens most of the time.

 

A lot of people have sense that they know how getting pregnant happens, but don't care. Can none of you at least agree to that? I have had a friend whose son got a girl pregnant, and he knew better, but they are paying the price now, but are still kids trying to grow up. Nether one of them wanted to abort the child, but want more out of life like right now, it will just come later than they wanted is all, even after his parents talking to both of them. It just felt to good in the moment what was said, and they did not think she could get pregnant that one time. Seems careless to me. One, they should not have been doing this in the first place.

 

Lets say I want a dress I see in a store but do not want to pay for it, should I steal it!!! Lets say when I was growing up and my parents told me not to take the car, should I sneak and take it anyway. Should I not have to pay a price for doing something I was told not to do?  Some people want to play grown ups that are to young and still depend on their parents. There are consequences when you are bad or do what you are not suppose to be doing. Taking responsiblity is the key here.

 

Please know I am not talking about any of you with my comments up above.

 

That is the thing, just for fun can lead to trouble if you do not take precautions. I know if one of my sons came home and told me they got a girl pregnant, I would be mad as heck, because they know all about the birds and the bees. I would  tell my own children, how disappointed, (and a few more things I will not repeat here, lol) I was in them after knowing all they know about sex.

 

I am not against abortion either if it is used for the right purpose. I will not go into it, click on my name and see what I have posted about this subject if you want to know please before you attack me to hard.

 

http://www.quotev.com/26157389/journal/292733/Abortion/

 

The link above, I do not feel this is a bull story at all. Since I have had 2 children and if I was raped, I would not have an abortion myself. I know how wonderful children are. Just because I do, does not mean you do and I understand that. So if you can, have a little understanding for others as I have for any of you please. It goes both ways.

 

The above link is a guilt trip to some people and for others it is not. I can understand why some of you might say that. If you do not want children, you just don't and there is nothing wrong with it. Yes, some of the precautions fail, I have no problem people having an abortion if the protection you use fails at all.

 

When I was younger, and not married, I took precautions, but I did not have a lot of sex for social bonding, nor for reproduction. I did not have the need for all that type of bonding. I wanted only one person, and that was the guy I was dating. I held myself and body to higher standards for myself. I am not putting any of you down at all by saying this about myself. If people want to bond like that, I have no problem with it, but not all people do that type of thing. Again understansding both sides.

 

I am not going to judge for people doing what they want, but I feel being responsible goes along with it.

i agree with this. that is how i feel.

Edited August 8, 2012 by NixAyum

[~Kat~]

Shienvien

 

Having an abortion in some cases is taking responsibility I agree, but not all.

 

fuzzbucket

 

Unless you have a total hysterectomy, that is the only way to prevent getting pregnant. Some people can not get pregnant though.

 

ylangylang

 

I am an honest and kind person, thank you for the compliment.

 

I am only thinking of people here in America, as I can do nothing, or I will not send money out of this country, as my own people need help first.

 

I am only against abortion in certain cases. Yes, I do believe in abortion.

 

dragonheart1999

 

Thank you.

 

 

I have started to talk to people at work and have come to find that some can not have children. It really irrates them, when I asked them what they thought about people who new how not to get pregnant but would not do anything to stop getting pregnant and had an abortion, they said it makes them angry, because they want a child and can not have any.

 

I have also found out there are a few where I work that were adopted and that have had a wonderful life growing up.

 

Most of you are so negative, not one good thing to say. Have you ever looked on the flip side that the people who can not get pregnant, will adopt and give that child a wonderful life. Better than you or I have had!!! Do you honestly want to punish these kids or their adoptive parents by thinking abortion is the only way to go?

 

Yes, you have some children in the system, who have it rough, and some who have wonderful lives. Try and turn this around just a bit please. Nothing in life is perfect that I know of.

 

Sex Education in school is the way to go then if your parents will not explain. If you are not in school, make it your business to find out the answers about sex and getting pregnant. Be powerful and aware of your own body so you know what you are doing. If you put that down, there is not much help for you I feel. You all can at least do what I have suggested can't you?

 

After reading what I have put about myself, and some come back at me, I feel unique, I really do. As I said, I went off the pill after a year of getting married,and I used methods not to get pregnant. Ok, I was lucky none of them failed before one of you say that. My monthly was always on. But hey, if I got pregnant, I was married and we would have wanted it.

 

Here is a link below, that is so wonderful. Would have been ashame if she had aborted that child, now would it have not?

 

22-year-old Sydney got pregnant after having unprotected sex for the first time just two months after graduating college

 

Woman Gives Baby To Transgender Man And Wife

 

http://www.aol.com/video/having-their-baby...26pLid%3D189268

 

Hugs to all of you,

 

 

[KageSora]

Most of you are so negative, not one good thing to say. Have you ever looked on the flip side that the people who can not get pregnant, will adopt and give that child a wonderful life. Better than you or I have had!!! Do you honestly want to punish these kids or their adoptive parents by thinking abortion is the only way to go?

 

Yes, you have some children in the system, who have it rough, and some who have wonderful lives. Try and turn this around just a bit please. Nothing in life is perfect that I know of.

I'm adopted because of fertility issues. If my birth mother had aborted me rather than adopted me out, I wouldn't care one way or the other. My birth mother was 19, I think, from what tiny bit I know, and I was very lucky that I ended up with a good family, but I'd hardly say it was somehow so much more amazing than the lives of people who were born to couples that wanted them.

 

 

But you know, not all the kids in the system are as lucky as me--they don't get adopted by those people who cannot have their own kid and want so desperately to get a child (if adoption is such a wonderful system, why haven't they adopted? Could it be that the system is more broken than people who claim it's a great alternative to abortion want to admit?)

 

 

And I'm still in favor of legal, safe, affordable abortions--for any reason, and at any stage though I seriously disapprove of the idea of a late-stage abortion for any reason other than medical (but IIRC most that are done late are usually for medical reasons, not somebody went "Hey, I've had this kid in my for 8 months now, but I don't really want it I think I'll go get an abortion!" though, if they DID... I can't say I'd trust them to make good parents). I don't like nor endorse abortion, and wish we lived in a world where the only abortions done were for medical reasons and that the adoption system was a wonderful alternative that placed most (or better yet, all) children with families that love them and raise them right. But, since the world isn't perfect, we have to make do with what we have. And not bringing more children into it to be unwanted, and to suffer for their parents behavior is a terrible idea, as is forcing a woman to be a baby-incubator. She's not a magical baby-making device, she's a living, thinking, feeling person and if she does not want that baby in her body, she should not be forced to carry it. I would hate to be forced to carry a child against my will.

 

Sex Education in school is the way to go then if your parents will not explain. If you are not in school, make it your business to find out the answers about sex and getting pregnant. Be powerful and aware of your own body so you know what you are doing. If you put that down, there is not much help for you I feel. You all can at least do what I have suggested can't you?

 

That's nice and all, and if that works (like it did for me) that's wonderful. But what about the people who have no idea that there IS more to learn, or who end up trying to educate themselves and seeing something disturbing and never going further? A big issue is that parents at times try to block the schools from teaching their kids that kind of stuff, because they feel it should be up to them when and what their kids learn--and then they either don't teach them anything, or teach them BS, or leave out very vital information because they don't think their kid needs it/tell them "DON'T DO IT AND THAT'S IT." and magically assume they won't have sex until they're married then.

[Obscure_Trash]

I have started to talk to people at work and have come to find that some can not have children. It really irrates them, when I asked them what they thought about people who new how not to get pregnant but would not do anything to stop getting pregnant and had an abortion, they said it makes them angry, because they want a child and can not have any.

 

Sounds like a personal problem. I am incredibly sympathetic towards people who cannot get pregnant and want to, but that's no reason people who don't want to get pregnant should have to. 3=

 

Here is a link below, that is so wonderful. Would have been ashame if she had aborted that child, now would it have not?

 

It would not have been a shame if it was the right choice for her. As long as someone is making the right choice for themself, then it isn't a shame. o3o

Edited August 8, 2012 by SockPuppet Strangler

[~Kat~]

I'm adopted because of fertility issues. If my birth mother had aborted me rather than adopted me out, I wouldn't care one way or the other. My birth mother was 19, I think, from what tiny bit I know, and I was very lucky that I ended up with a good family,

 

That's nice and all, and if that works (like it did for me) that's wonderful. But what about the people who have no idea that there IS more to learn, or who end up trying to educate themselves and seeing something disturbing and never going further? A big issue is that parents at times try to block the schools from teaching their kids that kind of stuff, because they feel it should be up to them when and what their kids learn--and then they either don't teach them anything, or teach them BS, or leave out very vital information because they don't think their kid needs it/tell them "DON'T DO IT AND THAT'S IT." and magically assume they won't have sex until they're married then.

I am so glad that you had a wonderful adopting family.

 

If any parent thinks that is all you say to a child is don't do it, they are kidding themseves. MOST kids are going to do it,

 

I told my boys all about sex, not their father, as they felt comfortable talking to me about any and everything, not their dad. I also told them, if they were going to have sex, what they needed to do and if they needed me to get it for them, I would. Some may say this is condoning it, but I would rather them have protection, than to get a girl pregnant.

[Brite]

Most of you are so negative, not one good thing to say. Have you ever looked on the flip side that the people who can not get pregnant, will adopt and give that child a wonderful life. Better than you or I have had!!!

 

Yea, and there's not very many, considering that a lot of them want healthy white kids or healthy kids with no problems.

[Shienvien]

Have you ever looked on the flip side that the people who can not get pregnant, will adopt and give that child a wonderful life.

Look at the number of children currently in the adoption system and not getting out. It is already far higher than that of people who can and will adopt one. Edited August 8, 2012 by Shienvien

[Rosedamai]

I am only thinking of people here in America, as I can do nothing, or I will not send money out of this country, as my own people need help first

I completely understand the sentiment behind this. The thing is, in my humble point of view, Americans, whether knowingly or not, set a precedent for other countries to follow. For example, my country has always had a bit of a gray stance when it came to abortion. However, this has changed-and most of the rhetoric behind was "look at the U.S, many states criminalize abortion" and so on. I'm not saying that you guys should deliberate behind every single legislation for the good of the world and so on, because I think that would be impossible, nor that every country looks up to the U.S as a shiny beacon of hope and blindly does everything that the U.S does. But the thing is these debates make a bigger splash than you might think, so I would like it if people kept in mind of that.

 

Most of you are so negative, not one good thing to say. Have you ever looked on the flip side that the people who can not get pregnant, will adopt and give that child a wonderful life. Better than you or I have had!!!

As an Asian with a lot of Asian-American acquaintances, some of whom were adopted, I'd have to speak against this. So many Asian children are adopted, I think the statistics showed that most international adoptions were those of Asian children. Many of these children have issues with their parents, who are often Caucasian. There are sometimes trafficking or kidnapping at issue with international adoption, because the birth mother does not understand/does not comply with what the adoption agency wants. (link here) I'd also like to go onto the huge amount of racism they face, both from their peers and from their parents, but as this is not a racism thread, I'd like to stay focused on adoption and abortion. My question is, as domestic/international adoptions do cause a lot of trouble, with children going through it later growing up to hate their parents, wish they were dead, ending up dead, etc. statistically, wouldn't it be a bit of a stretch to look at the good parts, when the bad parts are overwhelming?

I'd also like to add that there are places where a woman gets a very strong backlash for carrying the baby to full term without a husband (not to mention, even if you have a husband, if it's an unwanted baby you're not going to be excited for the next 9 months) so giving birth and putting the baby up for adoption isn't a "possible" means for the woman.

[St. Jimmy]

I have started to talk to people at work and have come to find that some can not have children. It really irrates them, when I asked them what they thought about people who new how not to get pregnant but would not do anything to stop getting pregnant and had an abortion, they said it makes them angry, because they want a child and can not have any.

That's very sad, but not my problem. No one should be forced/convinced to stay pregnant just because some other family, who may or may not even get the child, wants to adopt it.

 

Most of you are so negative, not one good thing to say.

You call it negative; I call it realistic.

 

Have you ever looked on the flip side that the people who can not get pregnant, will adopt and give that child a wonderful life.

Yup. Still would get an abortion.

 

Do you honestly want to punish these kids or their adoptive parents by thinking abortion is the only way to go?

Do you honestly want to punish the woman by guilting her into staying pregnant, when she may not be physically or mentally ready, just for the small chance that someone might adopt the kid?

 

[HeroLink42]

I have started to talk to people at work and have come to find that some can not have children. It really irrates them, when I asked them what they thought about people who new how not to get pregnant but would not do anything to stop getting pregnant and had an abortion, they said it makes them angry, because they want a child and can not have any.

 

I have also found out there are a few where I work that were adopted and that have had a wonderful life growing up.

 

While I do think that it's wonderful when a child is adopted into a loving family, this is unfortunately not the case the vast majority of the time. Most children are not so lucky and live very difficult lives.

However, I also don't think it's right for people who can't have children to be so judgemental towards people who get abortions. If a woman is raped and/or can't mentally or physically handle carrying the baby to term, no one has the right to condemn her just because they themselves can't have children. Unless you've experienced what she's going through, you have no right to judge. You don't know someone else's situation. You can't always know the circumstances by which a woman got pregnant. Maybe she did take preventative measures but the condom or birth control failed. If she knew how to use contraception but didn't, I agree that she was being irresponsible and should have known the possible consequences of her actions. Most people who do not use protection were never educated about it in the first place, thanks to the "abstinence only" BS. Even so, it is still ultimately the woman's choice what to do.

 

I don't want this to be taken as an insult to those who can't have children. If someone wants a child but can't, I completely understand that it is something very painful to deal with. My parents tried for a year to conceive before my mother became pregnant with me. She would cry every month when she got her period because she thought that she couldn't bear children. I can only imagine my parents' happiness when she finally became pregnant. However, even then my mother still supported a woman's right to choose.

 

Sorry for long post!

Edited August 8, 2012 by HeroLink42

[prairiecrow]

I have started to talk to people at work and have come to find that some can not have children. It really irrates them, when I asked them what they thought about people who new how not to get pregnant but would not do anything to stop getting pregnant and had an abortion, they said it makes them angry, because they want a child and can not have any.

And when, precisely, did the uteruses of other women become THEIR property or THEIR responsibility? Or even their concern?

 

I can understand the frustration of not being able to have a child when you desperately want one. However, what the people in question are doing -- declaring that their situation should dictate the reality of every other woman -- sounds pretty darned arrogant and egotistical to me. If they needed a kidney, would they presume to demand that a person with two healthy kidneys give them one? :/

[Fuzzbucket]

While I do think that it's wonderful when a child is adopted into a loving family, this is unfortunately not the case the vast majority of the time. Most children are not so lucky and live very difficult lives.

However, I also don't think it's right for people who can't have children to be so judgemental towards people who get abortions. If a woman is raped and/or can't mentally or physically handle carrying the baby to term, no one has the right to condemn her just because they themselves can't have children. Unless you've experienced what she's going through, you have no right to judge. You don't know someone else's situation. You can't always know the circumstances by which a woman got pregnant. Maybe she did take preventative measures but the condom or birth control failed. If she knew how to use contraception but didn't, I agree that she was being irresponsible and should have known the possible consequences of her actions. However, it is still ultimately her choice what to do.

 

I don't want this to be taken as an insult to those who can't have children. If someone wants a child but can't, I completely understand that it is something very painful to deal with. My parents tried for a year to conceive before my mother became pregnant with me. She would cry every month when she got her period because she thought that she couldn't bear children. I can only imagine my parents' happiness when she finally became pregnant. However, even then my mother still supported a woman's right to choose.

 

Sorry for long post!

YES ! I know two people who were adopted into families who - apparently - really wanted them - but who had unpleasant childhoods, where they were forced into moulds that simply didn't fit them. To this day one of them - the one who was beaten to try and make her follow a particular religious path that felt wrong to her cannot bear to have anything to do with her adoptive parents. They wanted a child. But - what for ? To force it to be something they wanted ? That's like playing at dolls. They keep trying to get in touch, and she keeps moving to get away from them...

 

I also know of a case where a family who adopted a child who turned out to have a personality disorder went back to the agency and told them to get rid of him for them, and they didn't want him any more. Adoption is not a bed of roses.

 

And yes to the rest of your post too.

[Ashes The Second]

http://iwasateenagemisogynist.wordpress.co...just-pro-fetus/

This as well.

 

Adoption isn't always fair for all parties involved. Be it the mother, the adopters, or the child. Adoption is NOT all rainbows and butterflies. This has been stated many, many times. I can't imagine what it'd be like to be adopted, especially at an older age (I'm not saying this negatively) nor could I imagine what it'd be like to be a foster child (I've been passed around my family, but I still stayed with my family...) We shouldn't automatically assume that, hey, those kids were adopted! Their life is going to be great now, and when I tell them that they're adopted, they'll be so grateful! No, that's airheaded thinking, and if you're adopting a kid with that thinking, then I feel very sorry for that child.

 

Okay, I understand where your coming from, and as an adopted child, life really /wasn't/ all rainbows and butterflies. I had phenomena, had to get all of y back teeth pulled at around age seven -- and let me tell you, it hurt like heck -- but that doesn't mean there /isn't/ a brighter future out there for teens/children that don't have a home, and have to stay in a orphanage. You shouldn't pity people who've probably become so hardened to that way of life it's like a second skin. Adopted children /do/ have a lot more problems than non-adopted ones, it's true, but still. It just kinda.. got on my nerves. i'm not trying to bash at you, just trying to clarify some stuff. <:

Edited August 8, 2012 by Ashes The Second