Twilight

[terioncalling]

I don't think this is ever adequately explained in the books. I'd usually say that, yes, they do, because that's fundamental to the definition of a vampire, but given that Meyer breaks a bunch of other fundamental rules of vampirism, it's really not a given.

 

Anyone feel like talking about the werewolves? I have fewer issues with them than I do with the vampires, but that's not saying much. Am I the only one who wondered why the werewolves could function with their minds so linked?

Yeah. Given that she admitted to never reading the lore before she started writing, I am gonna guess they don't.

 

 

...her werewolves make the facepalm because of the fursplosion. Most werewolves go through a very painful transformation but hers just explode from human to wolf which is more of a shapeshifter thing than true werewolves. My particular new favorite werewolf transformation thing is how it was described in the show Being Human on BBC.

 

"He should be dead within 30 seconds. The werewolf heart is about two-thirds the size of a human's. But in order to shrink, first it has to stop. In other words, he has a heart attack. All of the internal organs are smaller, so while he's having his heart attack, he's having liver and kidney failure too. If he stops screaming it's not because the pain has dulled, his throat, gullet and vocal chords are tearing and reforming. He literally can't make a sound. By now the pituitary gland should be working overtime, flooding his body with endorphins to ease some of the pain, but that too has shut down. Anyone else would have died of shock long ago. But it won't kill him and that's the thing I find most remarkable. It drags him through the fire and keeps him alive and even conscious to endure every second. Nothing like this could just evolve. This.......is the finger print of God. An impossible lethal curse spread by tooth and claw, victim begets victim begets victim. It's so cruel, it's... perfect."

 

Its just a marvelous explanation and the transformation is done with animatronics, which just gives me so much glee to still see them being used when so much is CG now. <3 the Brits for that one.

 

What do you mean by mind linked? The imprinting?

[slovu]

The imprinting is also creepy, but by mind linking I meant the way they could hear what every other member of their pack was thinking when in wolf form. There were some hints that you couldn't control what you wanted to get through (Leah's inability to stop flooding the rest of the pack with her bitterness about what happened with Sam), and other hints that you couldn't block it out or dampen it (Jacob complaining how awful it was hearing Leah think about it all day), so I'm wondering how anyone would be able to function with all that going on in their head. It's got to be super distracting at the very least. At the most, your thoughts would be indistinguishable from the thoughts of others and you'd go insane.

 

I like the quotation you provided! That is super awesome, and far closer to the heart of what a werewolf should be--utterly terrifying, but also supremely pitiable.

[terioncalling]

The imprinting is also creepy, but by mind linking I meant the way they could hear what every other member of their pack was thinking when in wolf form. There were some hints that you couldn't control what you wanted to get through (Leah's inability to stop flooding the rest of the pack with her bitterness about what happened with Sam), and other hints that you couldn't block it out or dampen it (Jacob complaining how awful it was hearing Leah think about it all day), so I'm wondering how anyone would be able to function with all that going on in their head. It's got to be super distracting at the very least. At the most, your thoughts would be indistinguishable from the thoughts of others and you'd go insane.

 

I like the quotation you provided! That is super awesome, and far closer to the heart of what a werewolf should be--utterly terrifying, but also supremely pitiable.

Oooh. I haven't heard all the much about mind linking.

 

Yeah, hearing what everyone else was thinking would make you go insane in my opinion. Brings to mind one of the characters from Pern who was like Lessa and Brekke in that she could hear dragons all of the time but relatively no control over it and it WAS starting to drive her mad. Aramina was her name, I think. I do know she married Jayge Lilencamp.

 

And indeed it is! I do so love that show because it hits everything in a classic but new sort of way.

[Esau of Isaac]

The imprinting is also creepy, but by mind linking I meant the way they could hear what every other member of their pack was thinking when in wolf form. There were some hints that you couldn't control what you wanted to get through (Leah's inability to stop flooding the rest of the pack with her bitterness about what happened with Sam), and other hints that you couldn't block it out or dampen it (Jacob complaining how awful it was hearing Leah think about it all day), so I'm wondering how anyone would be able to function with all that going on in their head. It's got to be super distracting at the very least. At the most, your thoughts would be indistinguishable from the thoughts of others and you'd go insane.

 

I like the quotation you provided! That is super awesome, and far closer to the heart of what a werewolf should be--utterly terrifying, but also supremely pitiable.

This (the idea of them being linked) is actually a very interesting concept. I like the idea of a pack of werewolves being telepathically linked, to more pointedly show that they work together, whether they want to or not. I don't think there would be much of a problem with hearing the thoughts of others, since they are supposed to be the equivalent of your own, really making them all sort of congeal into one mind controlling different bodies. If there's any real complaint I have about the werewolves, it's more that from what I can tell of what has been shown of the second movies, they cannot --or do not-- take an anthropomorphic form. Which is a letdown.

 

This is making me want to put together a Chronicle for Werewolf: the Forsaken :V

[Dr. Paine]

If there's any real complaint I have about the werewolves, it's more that from what I can tell of what has been shown of the second movies, they cannot --or do not-- take an anthropomorphic form. Which is a letdown.

Funnily enough, that is the one thing about the Twilight series that I do /not/ hate... since it used to be werewolves actually did turn into gigantic badass wolves, not some in-between thing

[terioncalling]

Funnily enough, that is the one thing about the Twilight series that I do /not/ hate... since it used to be werewolves actually did turn into gigantic badass wolves, not some in-between thing .png

 

I don't mind the wolf transformation instead of the anthro myself. Its just the manner they go about it.

 

>_> Exploding from human to wolf is just...weird.

 

This (the idea of them being linked) is actually a very interesting concept. I like the idea of a pack of werewolves being telepathically linked, to more pointedly show that they work together, whether they want to or not. I don't think there would be much of a problem with hearing the thoughts of others, since they are supposed to be the equivalent of your own, really making them all sort of congeal into one mind controlling different bodies

 

So they're the Borg?

[Dr. Paine]

I don't mind the wolf transformation instead of the anthro myself. Its just the manner they go about it.

 

>_> Exploding from human to wolf is just...weird.

 

 

Oh yes, I agree there needs to be some real transformation, not just 'boom wolf'.

 

Exceptions could be made for enchanted skin-mode werewolves, but those are really freaking rare.

[RheaZen]

How would "boom wolf" work anyways?

[Dr. Paine]

How would "boom wolf" work anyways?

Ask Meyer, she's the one who wrote it.

 

(There may be other examples of instant human to wolf transformations, but I've never seen them.)

[Phoeniix]

I've seen the trailer on the VMA awards. First off. I KNOW i am going to like the 1st one better. but i mean who doesent love Dakota Fanning. She is freakin sexy!....lol... but i mean i am glad bella and jacob come closer!...i realy do hate edward. i mean, youre a vampire...act like it!

Edited October 15, 2009 by Phoeniix

[Esau of Isaac]

Funnily enough, that is the one thing about the Twilight series that I do /not/ hate... since it used to be werewolves actually did turn into gigantic badass wolves, not some in-between thing

Still not halfway as cool. This is what they should look like:

 

[Dr. Paine]

Still not halfway as cool. This is what they should look like:

 

Ah yes, the rule of cool... x3

 

As long as it looks better than Lupin in the third HP movie (I was so damn disappointed by that), I can go either way, but sometimes it's nice to see the full shift from one to the other.

[NixAyum]

more of a shapeshifter thing than true werewolves.

Book 4, the Volturi somehow point out that no, they're not 4REAL werewolves with the moon and forced and all, but it's a genetic thing and they ARE just shape shifters taking the form of wolves because of the spirit-ancestor-animal story we heard in book one or two.

 

(How the Volturi know all this immediately is suspicious, but meh. Unless I'm forgetting something about when what'shisface touched Ed and that transfer of info happened. And Meyer did such a poor job explaining sparkles by science, do we really want to see her try the wolves too?)

 

The mental link isn't so much one mind in a bunch of bodies, it's all their minds connected. Voices are still distinct and identifiable but if you think or feel it as a wolf, everyone else as a wolf does too.

 

@picture: love the artistic shredded clothing, much like the Hulk in his purple pants. >>

 

@Paine: I also hated how they did Moony, too lanky/mangy. XP

[terioncalling]

Why on earth does she call them werewolves then? Oi. And muchly agreed - do not want her to try her hand any at explaining werewolves with her science.

 

The mental link isn't so much one mind in a bunch of bodies, it's all their minds connected. Voices are still distinct and identifiable but if you think or feel it as a wolf, everyone else as a wolf does too.

 

That seems a little...intruding. I don't think I'd want to shift into a wolf if everyone else that was one at the same time as me heard every thought and feeling.

 

 

 

Also, ooo, werewolf picture.

[NixAyum]

It's probably easier to just say 'werewolves', it's another popular concept, a contrast/enemy for the vampires, etc.

 

Neither did they. Jake goes on and on about how he thinks about Bella and everyone else is like 'OMFG SHUT UP ALREADY JESUS' and Leah's bitterness about Sam and THEN her dislike of being the ONLY female and having to share so intimately with all those guys that hate her already.

 

Hence why he went feral in book 2-3. Wolf 24/7 in uninhabited Canada, lived on hunting instincts, yadda yadda.

[Esau of Isaac]

Ah yes, the rule of cool... x3

 

As long as it looks better than Lupin in the third HP movie (I was so damn disappointed by that), I can go either way, but sometimes it's nice to see the full shift from one to the other.

Which happens with those depicted above. A better illustration of all the five forms would be something like this:

 

 

The mental link isn't so much one mind in a bunch of bodies, it's all their minds connected. Voices are still distinct and identifiable but if you think or feel it as a wolf, everyone else as a wolf does too.

You yourself stated that one would eventually become insane because of the closeness of all the thoughts, however. In that particular sense, it would be much the same as one mind controlling several bodies, as while they may all be thinking individually, they are together experiencing each other's thoughts as though they are themselves thinking them. If four small squares come together, and their overlapping lines are erased, can they really be thought to be four individual squares, or one larger square?

 

@picture: love the artistic shredded clothing, much like the Hulk in his purple pants. >>

It's actually pretty much the exact equivalent of the Hulk; being in Garou form makes werewolves angrier than usual (most if not all of them already having dangerous tendencies towards unreasonable rage), and when they can pick up and throw cars, that's probably not a good thing >__>

Edited October 16, 2009 by Esau of Isaac

[Dr. Paine]

Which happens with those depicted above. A better illustration of all the five forms would be something like this:

 

 

 

Ah.

 

All but the second one are amazingly awesome

 

The second one looks kinda... kinda like he just needs a wax.

[Esau of Isaac]

Ah.

 

All but the second one are amazingly awesome

 

The second one looks kinda... kinda like he just needs a wax.

Well, the Dalu form is pretty wolf-man-ish. It's meant to still look human while giving some of the bonuses the other forms afford, and also not inspire such a gigantic amount of Lunacy in those that see it.

 

Personally, I would be rocking the Urshul (second from the right) and Gauru (middle) more often than not >__>

[Dr. Paine]

Well, the Dalu form is pretty wolf-man-ish. It's meant to still look human while giving some of the bonuses the other forms afford, and also not inspire such a gigantic amount of Lunacy in those that see it.

 

Personally, I would be rocking the Urshul (second from the right) and Gauru (middle) more often than not >__>

Ah

 

Where exactly are these from, by the way? ._.

[Esau of Isaac]

Ah

 

Where exactly are these from, by the way? ._.

Werewolf: the Forsaken. It's one of White Wolf's primary PnP RPG lines. Its universe makes up one part of the entire World of Darkness, which includes the other two big games, Vampire: the Requiem, and Mage: the Awakening, their own protagonist-characters being obvious. There are others that contribute to the world, such as Changeling: the Lost (when characters play as, of course, Changelings that were stolen by the Fae as kids), Promethean: the Created (where players are corpses re-animated by the fires of Azul, and could be compared to Frankenstein), and Geist: the Sin-Eaters (which concerns humans that survive life-or-death experiences as a result of letting a powerful spirit reside in their minds). All of these games coincide with one another, letting cross-overs sometimes occur. However, after the earlier events of the oWoD (where seriously apocryphal craziness went down >__> ), it's not at all as prominent.

 

Basically, characters that go one-on-one with an Uratha in Gauru form usually have no chance in hell of surviving. Though I've heard of some Mages in other games that creatively used their abilities to turn their opponents' fur into silver. But that's just cold. Thinking on their feet with the rules there, though. >__>

[DragonNighthowler]

I'm more an Apocalypse person. I took a peek at the new line, and I'd rather stick to my old books.

 

As for Meyer's werewolves, I don't really care much. I can cope with the man to wolf mutation, and the man to anthropomorph wolf mutation, all the same. I dislike the wolfman view, but that's only because of a visual preference.

 

The mind connection, it could have been an interesting concept, but Meyer used it only to denigrate women even more (Leah and her constant push-up with Sam).

 

But the imprinting? That was disturbing, turning a killing machine into a lovesick puppy. A wolf will always do what's best for the pack, yet they feel obligued to follow that woman of their desire, which leads me to think they would be able to betray the pack.

 

I also like the concept of turning at full moon, I always play with that in my werewolf games, because it's fun, I like it, and the rules can be turned a bit.

 

Anyways, the main reason why I didn't mind about these werewolves, was because they were humans that turned into wolves, which pretty much complied the basic principle of being a werewolf.

 

If they were humans who were dead, and resurrected at night to pursue brains for lunch, and were being called werewolves, then I might have complained just the same as with the sparkling prince of Fairies.

[Esau of Isaac]

I'm more an Apocalypse person. I took a peek at the new line, and I'd rather stick to my old books.

It looks worse at first glance, but I like the idea of not being a hippy-crazed Garou. The Uratha can be irritating sometimes, with less functionality in an overarching storyline, but I think after a small amount of work, putting together a quality Chronicle is actually easier than Vampire and Mage. To a degree, at least.

[NixAyum]

You yourself stated that one would eventually become insane because of the closeness of all the thoughts, however. In that particular sense, it would be much the same as one mind controlling several bodies, as while they may all be thinking individually, they are together experiencing each other's thoughts as though they are themselves thinking them. If four small squares come together, and their overlapping lines are erased, can they really be thought to be four individual squares, or one larger square?

I didn't say that, someone else did. o-o I haven't posted in here much, and what you quoted was my first post in a while. It might make one go crazy if ALL the max number of wolves were all transformed at once for long long periods of time and there was no getting used to it. But that's just it. They DID (almost 99%) get used to it, even using it to advantages in the few fight scenes.

 

Fact remains they're still separate minds, their square-lines haven't been erased, just maybe transparency lowered. The only time they might be close to one mind is when Sam goes into rawralpha mode, and even then it's just a physical command they can't ignore. I don't think he can make them stop thinking something. If so, I'm pretty sure he would have had Jake not break out.

[Qwackie]

I read the Twilight series, didn't really like it, for one, it is an insult to Dracula, which was the secong best thing I've ever read. Secondly, the characters lack personalty.

[CowlRaven]

I;m beginning to read it. I guess it's kinda good.

 

*kills*