Twilight

[wolfclaw]

Twilight makes me ashamed to have a dog named after a vampire. In fact, I don't believe i've ever heard anyone say the vampires in twilight have fangs. There just sparky immortal people who drink animal blood. Weirdos.

 

 

 

(Before anyone asks, my dogs a long-Haired german shepherd named Lestat. *pats his fluffy head* )

[brokenglass]

yes but Lestat is an actual vampire.

 

You know..

 

He actually was made before the twenty first century...

 

I think you even agreed with me, BG, as far as that.

 

Wait, what?

[DragonNighthowler]

I never didn't get it, if you can believe that. I just also accept that Meyer has the right to call Edward a vampire, even if his concept is stupid.

Then I should have the right to sue her for selling me a product that's not such.

 

However, I don't.

 

Nobody here is against creativity, she could have called this things something else, and everyone would be fine. We won't be having this discussion.

 

Then again, the only vampire trait this diamond golems have is that they suck blood... wow, there are like a hundred mythical creatures that suck blood, and are not vampires. If I can recall with some exactness, Loup Garous were lycanthrope like creatures, who sucked blood, instead of eating the prey (like werewolves do).

 

Really, if only the sun hurt them, it would have made them vampire enough. A single, stupid trait.

 

Which, BTW, she introduced in the books because she "dreamed about it".

 

Which is perhapst the most stupid movement I've ever seen. I have dreamed with my books when writing them, it's logical as it's something that ocupies my time. But just because I dream something, I'm not going to make it a part of my books, if it's a huge incoherence.

Actually, I once did (it didn't have incoherences), but it was giving me so many problems, I chose to delete that part.

 

In summary, I don't think Meyer has that right. The same as I don't have the right to sell you orange juice in a tetrapack with the label "MILK" written in it.

[tintinlachance]

What I love about Twilight is that the central female protagonist has more chemistry with her supposed love interest's adopted sister than with said love interest himself. Team Alice represent.

 

What I don't love about Twilight is that people in the hatedom use it as a reason to demand more boring vampires. Yes, Stephenie Meyer's books are the literary equivalent of cotton candy with a chemical aftertaste. But you know what? Whether it was done haplessly or not, I'm glad she wrote unusual vampires. My favourite vampire stories are the ones that do something interesting with the concept; while Meyer's writing falls hopelessly flat in places, she has some really interesting ideas. People who complain that hers are not Real Vampires ought to consider how often the basic concept of the vampire shows up--throughout a vast number of cultures throughout the world--and what an assortment of ways in which the concept is executed. Want some examples? 7 Vampires Around The World Worse Than The Ones In Twilight. "Vampire" does not, and never has, meant one specific image, whether that image was Lestat de Lioncourt, Bela Lugosi as Dracula, or the bloated, fangless thing that was traditional to many European legends. Claiming otherwise is laughable.

 

I mean, if Meyer's vampires don't count as vampires, do Westerfeld's? Do Thurman's? Cal Thompson and Promise Nottinger can both go out in daylight without being burnt; Cal's got a parasite causing his condition, while Promise was born with it. Neither of them makes a habit of drinking the blood of humans. As far as I'm concerned, they're still both vampires, and frankly, the updating and mutating of the concept is part of what makes them interesting as characters.

 

Meyer writing vampires the way she does isn't like labeling orange juice milk. It's like tossing in some pineapple juice to go with. She doesn't really know what to do with the concepts she's playing with, but that doesn't make the concepts bad in themselves. There are several ideas in her writing that I would absolutely love to see other writers take on; someone with more awareness of werewolf and vampire tropes in general could do neat stuff with the imprinting and the skin like diamonds and all that jazz.

 

Oh, yeah, and Twilight is horrifically anti-feminist. That part sucks, too.

[terioncalling]

What I love about Twilight is that the central female protagonist has more chemistry with her supposed love interest's adopted sister than with said love interest himself. Team Alice represent.

 

What I don't love about Twilight is that people in the hatedom use it as a reason to demand more boring vampires. Yes, Stephenie Meyer's books are the literary equivalent of cotton candy with a chemical aftertaste. But you know what? Whether it was done haplessly or not, I'm glad she wrote unusual vampires. My favourite vampire stories are the ones that do something interesting with the concept; while Meyer's writing falls hopelessly flat in places, she has some really interesting ideas. People who complain that hers are not Real Vampires ought to consider how often the basic concept of the vampire shows up--throughout a vast number of cultures throughout the world--and what an assortment of ways in which the concept is executed. Want some examples? 7 Vampires Around The World Worse Than The Ones In Twilight. "Vampire" does not, and never has, meant one specific image, whether that image was Lestat de Lioncourt, Bela Lugosi as Dracula, or the bloated, fangless thing that was traditional to many European legends. Claiming otherwise is laughable.

 

I mean, if Meyer's vampires don't count as vampires, do Westerfeld's? Do Thurman's? Cal Thompson and Promise Nottinger can both go out in daylight without being burnt; Cal's got a parasite causing his condition, while Promise was born with it. Neither of them makes a habit of drinking the blood of humans. As far as I'm concerned, they're still both vampires, and frankly, the updating and mutating of the concept is part of what makes them interesting as characters.

 

Meyer writing vampires the way she does isn't like labeling orange juice milk. It's like tossing in some pineapple juice to go with. She doesn't really know what to do with the concepts she's playing with, but that doesn't make the concepts bad in themselves. There are several ideas in her writing that I would absolutely love to see other writers take on; someone with more awareness of werewolf and vampire tropes in general could do neat stuff with the imprinting and the skin like diamonds and all that jazz.

 

Oh, yeah, and Twilight is horrifically anti-feminist. That part sucks, too.

Last I read the Cal Leandros books, Promise did have to avoid sunlight and went outside with her skin covered and wearing a hooded cloak. Albeit its been a while since I finished Deathwish but that's what I recall.

 

And as someone stated on the linked page in the comments, I would rather see the ass-and-armpit-propelled-by-fire vampire than Twilight's as they are. I do agree that someone with the knowledge of werewolf and vampire lore could do things better but the question would be, should they? One of my issues - besides science illogic - is the diamond skin and the venom blood because it sounds like one of those other vampires and we've never seen those as main characters because those are hard to sell on their merit or pull off as a main character. They just appear as villains or just Mindless Monster of the Chapter because they just don't appear sympathetic.

 

Also skin like diamonds being the "Skin of a killer!" still makes me facepalm every time.

 

And example of good taking vampire lore and traits and running with it? Jim Butcher features four Courts of vampires in his Dresden Files books. Black hits Bram Stoker on the head (with a few additions of other corpse-like vampire lore), Red hits monster hiding under human skin, White hits the incubus side, and there's Jade but being as they are nearly extinct we have yet to see them.

[tintinlachance]

Last I read the Cal Leandros books, Promise did have to avoid sunlight and went outside with her skin covered and wearing a hooded cloak.  Albeit its been a while since I finished Deathwish but that's what I recall.

 

What I meant was, she's not confined to a coffin or anything of that sort. The sun doesn't automatically translate to insta-death for her, unlike, say, vampires in Dracula, the Southern Vampire mysteries, Let The Right One In, and a whole lot of other expressions of the vampire mythos. Sure, she has to wear sunscreen and carry a parasol, but that's not really stopping her from popping over to the Leandroses' for a pancake breakfast, is it? She's also not the undead (and neither is Cal Thompson, for that matter), if you'd prefer to sub in one of the other widespread traits of modern Western culture vampires; the Cullens actually have her one-upped on that point.

 

What Thurman is doing with the whole "Promise can go out, she's just got to be careful" thing is the exact same thing that Meyer is doing with the whole "their skin sparkles in the sunlight!" thing. She's taking an aspect of the traits we in the Western world associate with vampires and adjusting it. She does it much more consciously than Meyer, yes, and she does it better (which is kind of sad, given how awful Thurman's own writing can be at times--cf. Trick of the Light). But they're both still playing with tropes here, and claiming that no, actually, one of them's just making stuff up and presenting us with fake vampires, that phony, is asinine.

 

One of my issues - besides science illogic - is the diamond skin and the venom blood because it sounds like one of those other vampires and we've never seen those as main characters because those are hard to sell on their merit or pull off as a main character. They just appear as villains or just Mindless Monster of the Chapter because they just don't appear sympathetic.

 

Could you clarify what you're trying to say here? I'm afraid I don't understand.

 

I definitely agree on the illogic of her vampires in some respects, but not because they don't conform to science. (I mean, find me the science that allows Bela Lugosi to turn into a bat--doesn't that defy laws about conservation of mass times, like, a bajillion? And yet one would be laughed out of the room if one suggested that movie!Dracula and his thing for the children of the night wasn't a Real Vampire.) What I think is problematic is that they don't have quite the inner consistency that they should. The main example is that all their bodily functions basically stop when they're turned, and they go all poison-y inside instead, if I recall correctly. (Correct me if I'm wrong here, please and thank you; I know there's a major internal consistency problem involving Edward's dangly bits, but I'm not positive it's exactly this. ♥) Okay, I can work with that. But that means that Edward's sperm? Should, uh. Have turned into poison with the rest of his bodily fluids. The internal consistency of What Her Vampire Is (which is really all that's really required to keep one's suspension of disbelief going) is completely thrown off by the fact that Bella gets pregnant. That kind of thing is a problem, and a huge one, but it's a problem of logic, not science.

 

Also skin like diamonds being the "Skin of a killer!" still makes me facepalm every time.

 

Because she's a terrible writer, yeah. That doesn't make the concept terrible, though; it makes the execution of the concept utterly laughable.

 

I'm not saying Meyer did an awesomesauce job writing her vampires. I am, however, saying that complaining that they don't count as Real Vampires is a poorly thought out position to take that shows a poor understanding of what makes a Real Vampire. The essence boils down to a creature whose existence depends on sucking the life force out of other creatures, generally by drinking their blood. Which, uh. The Cullens do.

 

You might not like how they do it, and that's totally legit--there are vampires I don't like, either (O HAY THAR, ANNE RICE). But to say they're not vampires? That's absurd. They are vampires. Really, really poorly thought out vampires with some awesome ideas that don't get used to even a fraction of their full potential. And Stephenie Meyer is a terrible writer who over- and misuses the word "chagrined." But that doesn't mean she's not writing vampires. It just means she's writing vampires you don't like that she didn't think through very well.

[Dr. Paine]

... F*** it, I give up trying to make my point x.x

 

I'll just say it one last time: IF YOU GET RID OF THE COMMON ELEMENTS OF VAMPIRE MYTH, THE CREATURE IS NOT A VAMPIRE. Add on all the sh** you want, but do not take away the four important traits- sun = pain of some form, HUMANS are prey, not animals (the ones that attacked animals in addition to humans usually had some grudge against that family), vampires have many weaknesses, and they are undead. Meyer took away three our of four, hence, THEY ARE NOT VAMPIRES.

[tintinlachance]

... F*** it, I give up trying to make my point x.x

 

I'll just say it one last time: IF YOU GET RID OF THE COMMON ELEMENTS OF VAMPIRE MYTH, THE CREATURE IS NOT A VAMPIRE. Add on all the sh** you want, but do not take away the four important traits- sun = pain of some form, HUMANS are prey, not animals (the ones that attacked animals in addition to humans usually had some grudge against that family), vampires have many weaknesses, and they are undead. Meyer took away three our of four, hence, THEY ARE NOT VAMPIRES.

These four elements don't occur in a variety of vampire legends from around the world. Claiming that they're all necessary to make a Real Vampire is fairly ethnocentric.

 

Moreover, as far as I can tell, the Cullens count as undead, so actually, she's only taken away two of these. Is half a passing grade here? How does one score a vampire checklist attempt?

Edited October 3, 2009 by tintinlachance

[DragonNighthowler]

Want some examples? 7 Vampires Around The World Worse Than The Ones In Twilight.

 

What you're poiting out here aren't, actually vampires. You're actually stating what I've been trying to say;

"Blood sucking alone does NOT make you a vampire."

 

There are other traits.

 

I have a book, where a magician is able to create fire. He could pretty easily spit fire out of his mouth if he wished.

That fact DOESN'T make him a dragon. There must be other traits to acompany that fact.

 

Meyer's vampires are not interesting. They simply aren't vampires.

 

I don't have any issue with a vampire drinking animal blood at all. But all the traits she included are simply hideous. Super human, super speed, super powers, super hard skin, super beautiful, super...

What happened here? Superman, Spiderman and Flash Gordon got stuck in a teleport machine, and merged in a single creature, or what?

 

BTW, I don't like vampires, so I don't have had the pleasure to read those books. I normally go for mage and werewolf things (Jacob being the only reason why I kept reading the books). But I have had read, and played till boredom, Vampire Dark Age, and Vampire Masquerade. Give it a try, more complex, interesting vampire society (which Meyer has sort of half plagierated), and more interesting vampires too.

Strange enough, all of them die in sunlight.

 

Could you clarify what you're trying to say here? I'm afraid I don't understand.

 

She meant to say that Meyer has tried to explain her vampires from a scientific perspective, and has failed miserably. Obviously, tho, since you can't expect a housewife to suddenly be a genetist. But she should at least try not to look like an ignorant fool, and hold onto the basic principle;

"A mage did it."

 

I write fantasy, and as I'm not a scientist myself, I keep to the principles of fantasy. It's fantasy, it's a different world, there is magic, universe rules are different. End of story.

 

I'm not saying Meyer did an awesomesauce job writing her vampires. I am, however, saying that complaining that they don't count as Real Vampires is a poorly thought out position to take that shows a poor understanding of what makes a Real Vampire. The essence boils down to a creature whose existence depends on sucking the life force out of other creatures, generally by drinking their blood. Which, uh. The Cullens do.

 

Actually, I think there are some basic principles to be respected. Nobody would have complained at all, if they hadn't had that ridiculous;

"We don't come out in the sun, because we glimmer."

 

That imposes two little problems. First, vampires are hurt by sunlight, in variable extension. I won't be Vampire Nazi here, and claim all vampires to puff into ashes, which is pretty much stupid in my opinion. I accept variable pain, or harm, such as these episode from True Blood, where Bill almost nearly died. He was severely hurt, but could stand a few moments of sunlight.

 

The second problem I see is the fact that EVEN with a cloudy day, sunrays still filter through the clouds. If their diamond skin is reactive to sun, it should glimmer anyways, so they would still not be able to come out.

Also, there are some issues with her diamon cells. First, natural diamonds are not polished, so I see no reason why they should glimmer.

Second, that's a Golem.

 

There are many, many ways to make cool, original vampires. I have had to encounter several of them in my games, and I've played a vampire myself with very interesting results.

But this? I mean. sure, pink novel and all that. Honestly, the guy is a dark, mysterious vampire? Or is he some sort of homosexual fashion designer (with all respects to homosexuals)?

 

Honestly, I acept her werewolves, even if they haven't been bitten. I would acept her vampires, if the disease, or condition was genetic, or a curse, or something. But I really can't take a glimmering, flowery golem serious at all.

[tintinlachance]

What you're poiting out here aren't, actually vampires. You're actually stating what I've been trying to say;

"Blood sucking alone does NOT make you a vampire."

 

We are going to have to agree to disagree, because that's actually the opposite of my point. I think we might be looking at the concept of the vampire in radically different ways. I see it as a mutable idea across cultures based in the fear of having one's life force sucked away, with "vampire" not referring to a specific Dracula-like creature but a whole array of manifestations of this fear. I assume that the good people at Cracked, Wikipedia, and a whole host of other, actually scholarly sources (lol) are coming from a similar place. You appear to be basing the concept very heavily in traditional Western culture. Which is fine if it suits you, but it doesn't invalidate my point.

 

Also, I appreciate how you don't feel the need to look at any of the other vampires I referred to and tell me in the same breath to go out and learn something about VtM. Sorry, tabletops aren't my cuppa, nor is it the be-all and end-all to vampirism. They all die in sunlight? Well, it's a good thing VtM is where our vampire myths come from--oh, wait. Just because it plays traditional Western culture vampires fairly close to their origins doesn't make it better. It just makes it one way of doing things. Which again, is fine, but it doesn't invalidate others' choices to alter the concept more radically.

 

She meant to say that Meyer has tried to explain her vampires from a scientific perspective, and has failed miserably.

 

I did get that part. What I mean is the "it sounds like one of those other vampires and we've never seen those as main characters because those are hard to sell on their merit or pull off as a main character. They just appear as villains or just Mindless Monster of the Chapter because they just don't appear sympathetic." part. I'm not sure what's being got at there, except that there's an invocation of tropes of some kind.

 

But this? I mean. sure, pink novel and all that. Honestly, the guy is a dark, mysterious vampire? Or is he some sort of homosexual fashion designer (with all respects to homosexuals)?

 

By "pink novel," do you mean it in novela rosa (sentimental book aimed at women) sense? I've never heard this phrase before and want to make sure I understand what you mean.

 

If that is what you mean, I'd appreciate it if 1) you didn't imply that because it's aimed towards women, it's slightly more understandable that it's mediocre ("I mean sure, pink novel and all that") and 2) you resisted the urge to use flaming-queer stereotypes in an attempt to make a joke. Whether you add in a disclaimer or not, I find it a bit denigrating.

 

Frankly, I think we'll have to agree to disagree overall, because this conversation is going in circles.

Edited October 3, 2009 by tintinlachance

[DragonNighthowler]

We are going to have to agree to disagree, because that's actually the opposite of my point. I think we might be looking at the concept of the vampire in radically different ways. I see it as a mutable idea across cultures based in the fear of having one's life force sucked away, with "vampire" not referring to a specific Dracula-like creature but a whole array of manifestations of this fear. I assume that the good people at Cracked, Wikipedia, and a whole host of other, actually scholarly sources (lol) are coming from a similar place. You appear to be basing the concept very heavily in traditional Western culture. Which is fine if it suits you, but it doesn't invalidate my point.

 

Well, then what's a Succubus? Because last time I checked, it wasn't a vampire.

How about Dementors, invented by Rowling. Are they vampires too? Because they suck people's soul, life force, whatever you want to call them, away.

Mosquitos? Vampires too?

 

A Loup Garou is not a vampire, but a lycan like creature that happens to suck blood.

 

Same with that german elf. That's not a vampire, but a blood sucking fairy like creature, or elven like creature.

 

Independently if I'm basing my facts from western culture or not, sucking blood makes you as much a vampire, as farting fire makes me a dragon. An indu fakir (dunno how they are called), no matter how much fire it spits, he isn't a dragon.

The same as if I now decided to base my diet in blood, that wouldn't make me a vampire.

A sole trait doesn't make a person.

 

To cite an example from my area of expertise.

Nazism ideology was militaristic, and imperialist.

 

Napoleon's ideology was imperialistic, and militaristic.

 

Rome's ideology was militaristic and imperialist.

 

They are NOT the same thing, even if they share a common trait.

 

 

Also, I appreciate how you don't feel the need to look at any of the other vampires I referred to and tell me in the same breath to go out and learn something about VtM. Sorry, tabletops aren't my cuppa, nor is it the be-all and end-all to vampirism. They all die in sunlight? Well, it's a good thing VtM is where our vampire myths come from--oh, wait. Just because it plays traditional Western culture vampires fairly close to their origins doesn't make it better. It just makes it one way of doing things. Which again, is fine, but it doesn't invalidate others' choices to alter the concept more radically.

 

I didn't say I didn't have the need. I said I HADN'T HAD THE PLEASURE TO.

I admitted, that I'm, by no means, vampire expert. But I don't recall a single vampire glimmering in sunlight, being that the reason they seclude themselves in hidden dungeons. I actually said I accept other vampire concepts, the same way I accept other werewolf concepts like the one Meyer introduced (which reminded me of the Uktena tribe, btw).

The Vampires in I Am Legend are not undead, but rather a mutation caused by a disease. I accept them, interesting concept.

 

Glimmering? Diamond cells? Sorry, no.

 

By "pink novel," do you mean it in novela rosa (sentimental book aimed at women) sense? I've never heard this phrase before and want to make sure I understand what you mean.

 

Yes.

 

If that is what you mean, I'd appreciate it if 1) you didn't imply that because it's aimed towards women, it's slightly more understandable that it's mediocre ("I mean sure, pink novel and all that") and 2) you resisted the urge to use flaming-queer stereotypes in an attempt to make a joke. Whether you add in a disclaimer or not, I find it a bit denigrating.

 

1) Not all of them are mediocre. But a good 99% of them are pretty much a waste of trees.

The fact that they are aimed at women makes me despise them even more. As a woman, I feel offended that the world thinks I can spend my time reading romantic trash, as if that's the only literature out there to read.

 

2) Sorry, political correctness doesn't come with me.

[futurelibkeeper]

Wooooow, intense. It was quite interesting going back and forth, I'm not gonna lie. And I think I'll point out that many myths and legends (and not only in Western civilization) classify vampires as those who not only drink blood, but also as those who consume the life-force. The succubus and incubus are considered among them as well, and they may or may not have magical or psychic powers. They mainly prey on children and those they have touched, if they don't suck them dry lol, develop some sort of sickness or disease that causes their victims to waste away. I am, of course, not classifying one kind of vampire, but combining traits of vampires in myths all over the world. There are some vampires, even, that get up at noon and goes to bed at midnight, so even as there is a general aversion to sun, not all do. And as we've never spoken to a vampire, I think Ms Meyer can take some artistic liberties here. If she wants to make her vampires sparkle in the sun, even if that is a bit...odd...she has that right. As it is called a fantasy, I don't think there's one specific way vampires are supposed to be. I've read many books with vampires that the authors made them have no aversion to sunlight whatsoever, and had their vampires be scornful of the cliched vampires in the hollywood version and such. And it keeps it fresh. She tried to make her vamps interesting. Just because it doesn't appeal to you and does appeal to millions of fangirls lol, doesn't make it any less special. Not that I'm saying her vamps are special 'cause, frankly, I wish I could hurt Bella cause she's an idiot.But that's beside the point lol.

[terioncalling]

I did get that part. What I mean is the "it sounds like one of those other vampires and we've never seen those as main characters because those are hard to sell on their merit or pull off as a main character. They just appear as villains or just Mindless Monster of the Chapter because they just don't appear sympathetic." part. I'm not sure what's being got at there, except that there's an invocation of tropes of some kind.

 

By "it" I was referring to Meyerpires. Meaning with the traits they have (diamond skin and venom blood first and foremost) they seem similar to me to those other types of vampires in the list you linked, which - as I said - are types you don't see in literature.

 

And as we've never spoken to a vampire, I think Ms Meyer can take some artistic liberties here. If she wants to make her vampires sparkle in the sun, even if that is a bit...odd...she has that right. As it is called a fantasy, I don't think there's one specific way vampires are supposed to be. I've read many books with vampires that the authors made them have no aversion to sunlight whatsoever, and had their vampires be scornful of the cliched vampires in the hollywood version and such. And it keeps it fresh. She tried to make her vamps interesting. Just because it doesn't appeal to you and does appeal to millions of fangirls lol, doesn't make it any less special.

 

Most people, when creating vampires, take traits from established lore though. As stated previously, Jim Butcher and the three known Courts is a good example. There are, so far as I'm aware, no vampires or blood-sucking or life-sucking creatures in that vein of lore that have diamond skin.

 

Now if she had left it at simply being a trait of her vampires - a supernatural, no-need-for-explanation trait - I would be fine with diamond skin and venom blood. My own vampires that I have been working on since high school once were able to throw fireballs around. I have since cut out that trait but still. But, no, she tried to explain these things through science and came up with that silly thing about hanging chromosomes and venom sperm that makes no sense at all to create a trying-to-be-Alia-from-Dune-kind-of-creepy child.

 

I have vampires that can throw fireballs still. Know how? I made them witches beforehand. There is no science or reason behind my own: the First vampire was born for a reason no one knows and became what he is through trauma from the death of his family. His speed increase two fold as did his senses and he gained the ability to shapeshift and do short range teleportation (as well as a few other powers). Somehow he was able to pass these traits on to others who, through dying in certain circumstances and with a strong will to live, come back from the dead and gain those same abilities. No scientific explanations needed - it just is because that's how they are.

 

Take out the science (and the kid) and I can deal with the vampires. Eddie boy is still a stalker and Bella still needs to be dropkicked in the teeth, though.

Edited October 4, 2009 by terioncalling

[SpecialDays]

Meyer's vampires are not interesting.

 

They simply aren't vampires.

 

I don't have any issue with a vampire drinking animal blood at all. But all the traits she included are simply hideous. Super human, super speed, super powers, super hard skin, super beautiful, super...

What happened here? Superman, Spiderman and Flash Gordon got stuck in a teleport machine, and merged in a single creature, or what?

I agree. Aren't vampires supposed to die in the sun? Because they're night creatures? But apparently in twilight, THEY SPARKLE. =w= It's idiotic. And the fact that Smeyer never actually read a vampire novel, researched, or put any actual fact into her book (besides OMFG VAMPIRES SUCK BLOOD) is also a downer.

 

Vampires are supposed to be beautiful, to lure in their prey, but Smeyer's extent of beautiful is horrible. this letter I found in an anti site explains everything...

 

"From the Vampiric Council regarding Stephanie Meyer

 

Council Chambers

Association of Vampiric Activities Worldwide

1431 Wallachia Ave.

Sighisoara, Transylvania

 

From the Council Chambers of the Association of Vampiric Activities Worldwide

 

Regarding those of the Vampire race in the Cullen family and the now-former human Isabella Swan, with the following issues brought before Stephanie Meyer.

 

It has come to our attention that your creation's popularity among humans - particularly adolescent females - has been on the rise as of late. While we do respect those promoting our kind who achieve fame and glory, we nevertheless must hold you accountable for promoting several grievous misconceptions about our race.

 

 

Grievance the First: Lifestyle

 

It has been discovered through various interviews with readers and fans that you claim the following: Vampires do not sleep, breathe, or eat. Additionally, you state that Edward Cullen drinks animal blood to avoid biting humans. To begin, Vampires should generally sleep in a coffin containing the soil of their homeland. It is not a necessity, but it is highly recommended to preserve vitality. This is a fact that has been laid down since the time of our most ancient ancestor Ch'thon. The concept of not needing to breathe is foolish. Certainly the more powerful among us consider breathing a hobby, however a study of the Cullen family reveals that none of them are at such a level. The consumption of animal blood is something you are only partially correct on. It is common knowledge that nothing can surpass 100 percent genuine virgin blood in terms of performance enhancement. Animal blood works in emergencies, but fresh human blood - preferably virgin - is the status quo.

 

Furthermore, if our kind were to feed solely on animals with lower-quality blood, feedings would increase and it would cause potential instability in the planetary food chain and we could all very well end up extinct.

 

 

Grievance the Second: Method

 

Your portrayal of Edward Cullen in particular is a slight affront to our race. He is described using reference from the novels in the following way:

 

"Edward, like all Vampires in the Twilight series, possesses superhuman beauty, strength, speed, endurance, and agility. His scent and voice are enormously seductive, so much so that he occasionally sends Bella into a pliant daze entirely by accident."

 

Our abilities do vary, so thankfully the idea of Edward being a fast mover is not an affront to us. The rest of the description, however, we take exception to. While the idea of our race being a sexual one by nature is indeed true, Vampires are quite adept at restraint of libido. We remain unobtrusive as need dictates, and merely charming when appropriate. Methods of seduction are to be employed against humans only when a Vampire has reached a state of mental maturity. The idea that Edward - being so young mentally - practically radiates lust is ridiculous. If Isabella Swan is indeed swooning around one such as him, the cause is more than likely akin to a pungent smother than an aromatic caress.

 

A requested message from Proinsias Cassidy states that one need not "look like a total (expletive deleted) wanker t'get some (expletive deleted)." To express things more eloquently, we wish you would cease writing things in an apparent state of self-induced arousal.

 

 

Grievance the Third: Concerning Isabella Swan

 

As is most likely obvious by now, the brunt of our displeasure with you seems to focus on Edward Cullen. Also of concern to us is your handling of the human Isabella Swan. While member Seras Victoria points out that Vampires can indeed fall in love with humans, such likelihood seems to fade as the Vampire grows more accustomed to their lifestyle. The near-immediate conversion to a Vampiric state to further develop a relationship is permissible and indeed encouraged. Unfortunately in your story, it seems it takes most of the series before this happens.

 

By all rights, only a fresh Vampire would be so hesitant to turn the target of their affection to their kind, as they would still cling to humanity. You state that Edward has been alive since the early 1900's. He should have shed such a connection to Humanity by this time. Furthermore, Vampires are generally not driven to attempt suicide simply because of badly-handled romantic situations.

 

 

Grievance the Fourth: Concerning Power

 

Stated above, powers do vary within, and a Vampire's abilities may even change as they gain power and status.

 

Default Vampire powers are the following:

Increased strength

Increased speed

Enhanced senses

Telepathy

Familiars among the animal kind and limited shapeshifting of a related nature

 

Note that some Vampires may not possess these abilities, and some may possess others. Edward's current lineup of abilities is largely satisfactory, although we must state that no human is immune to a Vampire's telepathy. The idea of 'injecting venom into the heart' to convert a human to a Vampire is nonsense. Drinking a humans blood first renders them weak, and if a human is severely drained by a Vampire, only then do they themselves become a Vampire.

 

Additionally, the concept of Vampires having such varied powers among their own kind for the reason you describe is largely ridiculous. Vampires gain and perfect powers as they mature. Please realize that the varied capabilities of the Volturi are primarily telepathic in basic nature, and that the elementalist abilities of the Egyptian Coven's member Benjamin is more akin to the misrepresented nature of the so-called 'ninjas' of "Naruto" rather than the true abilities of any Vampire.

 

Furthermore, the idea of Vampires sparkling in sunlight is seen by us as truly nothing more than a foolish plot device. The most powerful of us are merely annoyed by sunlight, while the vast majority would - as member Proinsias Cassidy describes - "go up like six tons of Symtex."

 

 

Further Comments:

 

President Vlad Dracula would like to state that even if you were a virgin he would not drink from you, for it would only sully our race.

 

Member Proisias Cassidy's message has been removed due to generally inappropriate language.

 

Member Saya Otonashi commends you on including a character who wishes to become a Vampire, however she feels offended that such a character would change so swiftly and practically throw her character away when changing so.

 

Member Angelus advises that the next time Edward Cullen feels jilted in his love life, that he try to sort out the problem himself.

 

Member Louise de Pointe du Lac recalls his own experience in Human-Vampire relations and cannot help but wonder how Isabella might have fared if she had met Lestat.

 

Member Seras Victoria wishes she could sparkle in the sunlight too. She has been reprimanded.

 

 

Council Notes:

 

-We must commend you on the concept of the Volturi, although we find their policies regarding knowledge of our kind and dislike of Vampire children to be largely pointless.

 

-In anticipation of potential backlash regarding oddities among our own race, we wish to settle the following disputes here and shortly. First, concerning the unique nature of Vampires in Saya Otonashi's place of residence, human experimentation has muddled our kind their. The Chiropteran and Cavalier race are genetic deviants. Secondly, Proinsias Cassidy has quietly informed us that he had his fangs filed into normal incisors so as to avoid unwanted attention among humans. Furthermore, Louise de Pointe du Lac has commented on a new Vampire's need to bite and drink from the one who created them. This is not a necessary act and it has been concluded that this is an act done by some to give a Vampire their first blood until they are strong enough to feed themselves.

 

-In reference to your typical styles of romance, we have made contact with huntress Selene concerning her escapades with the Lycanthrope race.

 

-We are aware that the Count currently living on Sesame st. as well as Count Chocula do not conform to the standards set by the Council, however their actions and lifestyle are acceptable as they are useful for drawing in children.

 

-It is the esteemed belief of this Council that in cinematic portrayals of our race, Bela Lugosi and Tom Cruise make far better Vampires than Robert Patterson.

 

 

Sincerely,

Vlad Dracula, Count (President)

Proinsias Cassidy (Head of Human Relations Department)

Saya Otonashi (Deputy Head of Human Relations Department)

Angelus (Redemptions and Counseling)

Louise de Pointe du Lac (Chief Historian)

Seras Victoria (Head of Security)

 

Post-script: Should you happen to be in contact with the esteemed Mr. Richard O'Brien before we are, please remind him that Transylvania is not 'trans-sexual', and we have no record of 'sweet transvestites' living here. The tourists are becoming annoying."

 

[terioncalling]

Whoever wrote that wins 1,000,000 internets.

[DragonNighthowler]

As it is called a fantasy,

 

Is my mage a dragon? He can breathe fire if he wished.

 

Is a mosquito a vampire? So far, she drinks blood.

 

The succubus and incubus are considered among them as well,

 

I thought Succubus were demons.

 

Anyways, Rowling's dementors are not classified as vampires.

 

There are some vampires, even, that get up at noon and goes to bed at midnight,

 

Never heard of such, but I'm open to new knowledge.

 

And as we've never spoken to a vampire, I think Ms Meyer can take some artistic liberties here.

 

Never talked to dragons either, and so far, my mage is still not a dragon.

 

Nobody is complaining at her artisitic liberties. Going back to VtM, White Wolf takes some liberties, but respecting the (existing, BTW) vampire myth.

Eragon also makes his own dragons, but respecting dragon myth.

Dragonlance, Forgotten Realms, and a long list of etc.

 

We're not asking for wands and hocus pokus to make a magician, or ugly old loners with black cats. But even though you might want to add your fantastic touch, your personal ideas, all magicians and witches should be able to do magic. Otherwise, they loose the most determining trait, and become something else, but not witches.

 

Vampires can be super strong, or not. Die with silver (as in True Blood), or with a wooden stake through the heart. Need to be decapitated, or demi gods.

But Drinking Blood, and some for of sun aversion, should be a trait.

 

Geez, even if they didn't die in the sun, I might not have had a problem. Even if it was simply some sort of heliophobia, like many night animals. But this?

 

Just because it doesn't appeal to you and does appeal to millions of fangirls lol,

 

11 million people voted for the worst president in the history of democracy, in Spain.

Just because they are more, doesn't make them right.

 

Going back a few decades, most scientists were convinced homosexuality was a mental disorder, or some sort of disease.

History demonstrated they were blatantly wrong.

 

 

 

BTW Terion, cool signature, but I wish Dean got to kill Sam sometime .

Edited October 4, 2009 by DragonNighthowler

[NixAyum]

-In reference to your typical styles of romance, we have made contact with huntress Selene concerning her escapades with the Lycanthrope race.

 

=D Link want!

 

Just because it doesn't appeal to you and does appeal to millions of fangirls lol,

 

As said above and also by myself earlier, just because it's popular doesn't mean it's right. *coughpickupahistorybookcoughhack*

Edited October 4, 2009 by NixAyum

[Lagie]

I tried very hard to read Twilight as it came highly recommended by a former student whose opinion I trust. I started twice and just couldn't get into it. That wouldn't stop me from recommending it to someone else if I thought it might appeal to them.

[terioncalling]

BTW Terion, cool signature, but I wish Dean got to kill Sam sometime .png.

 

Thank-a, thank-a. Heheh, there are times I wanna smack both of the boys upside the heads for their stupidity.

 

Just because it doesn't appeal to you and does appeal to millions of fangirls lol, doesn't make it any less special.

 

Uh, yes, it does when some of them cause the horror stories we've heard of and go absolutely ape**** when someone says something bad about Twilight. Even when HP was big, there were never any reports quite as bad as the one's heard during this fandom's reign.

 

Also the "I wish I could find a man like Edward!" that I've heard from fangirls and my own relatives hurts my brain because that is NOT the kind of man anyone needs.

[Dr. Paine]

Also the "I wish I could find a man like Edward!" that I've heard from fangirls and my own relatives hurts my brain because that is NOT the kind of man anyone needs.

Actually, I say if they want it...

 

Get an awesome actor who can give them that. Then, one of two things: they learn and can be released to the general public, or are removed from the gene pool.

[Lila]

Do I have to provide an explanation or can I just come up front with it?

 

TWILIGHT SUCKS.

[Dr. Paine]

Do I have to provide an explanation or can I just come up front with it?

 

TWILIGHT SUCKS.

Explanations are kinda nice, yeah.

[WonderBubbles]

I believe that the Twilight Saga vampires aren't true vampires.

No fangs? Come oooonnnn. DX

Sparkles... Uh huh.

 

I thought the series was great for the first five times that I read it, but now it's kinda boring. I can think about it and compare to the real vamps, so to speak.

[Esau of Isaac]

What you're poiting out here aren't, actually vampires. You're actually stating what I've been trying to say;

"Blood sucking alone does NOT make you a vampire."

 

There are other traits.

 

I have a book, where a magician is able to create fire. He could pretty easily spit fire out of his mouth if he wished.

That fact DOESN'T make him a dragon. There must be other traits to acompany that fact.

Right. The mage would have to form into a lizard-like entity to be classified as a dragon. However, Meyer's creatures are just as much vampires as, say, Rice's. Their lack of weakness is to sunlight may be a bad choice, but it's not an integral feature, anymore than a commonly held weakness to holy objects and garlic, or inability to cross running water.

 

They are vampires because they suck blood, and because they are dead.

 

I don't have any issue with a vampire drinking animal blood at all. But all the traits she included are simply hideous. Super human, super speed, super powers, super hard skin, super beautiful, super...

These are common facets of modern vampires. The lack of actual weaknesses is problematic, but this doesn't make them not vampires.

 

What happened here? Superman, Spiderman and Flash Gordon got stuck in a teleport machine, and merged in a single creature, or what?

No; these traits were all modernized decades ago.

 

BTW, I don't like vampires, so I don't have had the pleasure to read those books. I normally go for mage and werewolf things (Jacob being the only reason why I kept reading the books). But I have had read, and played till boredom, Vampire Dark Age, and Vampire Masquerade. Give it a try, more complex, interesting vampire society (which Meyer has sort of half plagierated), and more interesting vampires too.

Explain how Meyer plagiarized Vampire: the Masquerade. I'm seeing zero connections.

 

Strange enough, all of them die in sunlight.

All of them are also weak to someone flashing a credit card in their face, provided they possess True Faith.

 

Or hey, going on your complaint of super abilities, how about the antediluvians? Last I recall the Ravnos antediluvian was able to fight off three Kuei-Jin elders for three days and nights, along with dozens of cabals of mages and packs of Garou (and was in fact kicking their asses) before being struck by a nuke, which he still survived, and only died after hours of being forced under magnified sunlight. Hell, this guy wasn't even fully awake, and was one of the absolute weakest of all them.

 

This is forgetting how far each Discipline went when stretched to its ultimate capabilities. Ten dots in Potence let you punch down mountains, ten dots in Obfuscate makes the world forget you ever existed, ten dots in Dominate lets you control the entire planet, and so on and so forth.

 

Well, then what's a Succubus? Because last time I checked, it wasn't a vampire.

Incredibly shaky. Sometimes they are considered vampires, or suggested to be such, as they have over time altered to be closer to more vampiric imagery. A lot of people would probably in fact define a succubus as a female vampire.

 

How about Dementors, invented by Rowling. Are they vampires too?

Of a sort. They aren't undead humans, however, and they don't subsist off blood, so they're not the sort of vampires we are speaking of.

 

Mosquitos? Vampires too?

Mosquitoes are not vaguely humanoid. They could be called a vampire, if the word is being used to denote a parasitic behavior of sorts (as with the above dementors), but they're not vampires as we are thinking.

Edited October 10, 2009 by Esau of Isaac

[Zeekaice]

Alright. Twilight...

 

I tried reading it for a little bit. It was sort of good until Edward came along. And only sort of.

 

I don't see how it's such a good book, I really don't. Throughout the entire book, it's pretty much just "I love you..." then "Oh, you can't be with me. I'm too dangerous." and Bella's all like "But I love you D:" and then Edward's like "We can be friends." And then they're suddenly boyfriend/girlfriend again.

 

Plus, the person who proofread it didn't do a very good job. It doesn't really make sense to me.

 

Then the fact that they sparkle just...ugh. Really? Why? Why couldn't it be the good ol' "I die if I'm in the sun" thing? It makes much more sense. Sparkling...it just makes them seem too girly. Really, it does. It's like...

 

"Yeah, I'm all cool and fast 'n stuffs!" That's pretty cool, right?

Then it's like

"I sparkle." Then all hopes and dreams of awesomeness just are gone.

 

I mean, yeah, I understand adding something to make the vampires more of your own, but couldn't it be more like..."I can turn invisible so I can get to my victim easier, but I have to be in the dark for it to work, plus, I die in the sun." because, yeah, that's cooler than sparkling, right? Not the best in the world because it was off the top of my head, but it's better than sparkling.