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Get Rid of Name Exclusivity

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22 minutes ago, High Lord November said:

It really just comes down to values and personal preference. There isn't any objective 'best answer', and you can't use your personal preference to argue away someone else's personal preference. Some people love having exclusive names, other people hate it. Whether or not it changes probably depends on how much TJ et al cares, and how easy it is to code/change.

 

The only true middle ground seems like letting people choose if they want the name to be exclusive or not. It would have to be an opt-out system (everything is automatically exclusive unless you check a box) and I don't know how many people would care to go through their scroll and make things non-exclusive. And if someone has names on their scroll and doesn't play any more, it wouldn't really make the non-exclusive people happy. It could open up harassment too, and it would still mean the non-exclusive people would have to think and try out different names to find one they could use.  Then it starts to just get complicated, so is it really worth it?

 I agree with this, it's hard to really argue or try to convince people over a personal preference. My own personal preference is that I just think fun should trump Exclusitivity- but I play differently than others - I just like collecting little dragons and naming them something I think is funny or even tries to follow a naming theme I noticed with the parents. (I mean I have hatchlings named RBG PNG Printer and Skateboard Olliepop rn)

 

I feel if there is any decision made and can work in coding - taking all personal preferences out - it'd be best to get rid of exclusivity all together, It's easier to get over loosing the fact that you had a dragon name first then it is being unable to name half of your dragons or just naming them something like (2G PRIZEKIN HALLOWEEN2020). 

 

If having a name locked in the first place causes harrassment, it's best to find a way to end that harrassment with a nip in the butt. If people are spite killing or wanting to snipe names just so certain people don't get that name, it's easier to just take out exclusitivity so that's not a problem anymore.

 

(I am aware that it is good to deal with harrassers and boot 'em off but also not good for using up valuable time on the moderators part and members who have to deal with that harrassment who might become unwilling to play)

 

I do think the locking system would be an okay inbetween solution but it highly prefers exclusivity still over those who actually want the names to just be free - and at most it'd maybe free up only a couple 100 names. (of which would probably need to be listed for people to have to dig through)

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2 hours ago, Mephino said:

 I agree with this, it's hard to really argue or try to convince people over a personal preference. My own personal preference is that I just think fun should trump Exclusitivity- but I play differently than others - I just like collecting little dragons and naming them something I think is funny or even tries to follow a naming theme I noticed with the parents. (I mean I have hatchlings named RBG PNG Printer and Skateboard Olliepop rn)

 

I feel if there is any decision made and can work in coding - taking all personal preferences out - it'd be best to get rid of exclusivity all together, It's easier to get over loosing the fact that you had a dragon name first then it is being unable to name half of your dragons or just naming them something like (2G PRIZEKIN HALLOWEEN2020). 

 

If having a name locked in the first place causes harrassment, it's best to find a way to end that harrassment with a nip in the butt. If people are spite killing or wanting to snipe names just so certain people don't get that name, it's easier to just take out exclusitivity so that's not a problem anymore.

 

(I am aware that it is good to deal with harrassers and boot 'em off but also not good for using up valuable time on the moderators part and members who have to deal with that harrassment who might become unwilling to play)

 

I do think the locking system would be an okay inbetween solution but it highly prefers exclusivity still over those who actually want the names to just be free - and at most it'd maybe free up only a couple 100 names. (of which would probably need to be listed for people to have to dig through)

The thing is that exclusivity does equal fun for some people. For me constraints always breed creativity.  I value that. You don't. That's fine, it's just an incompatible value system in this case.

 

Either a name is exclusive, or it isn't. Middle ground would look like people who want to keep their names exclusive keeping their names exclusive, and people who don't care about exclusive names using public names. If all names are immediately open, you can no longer enforce exclusivity. It does mean the public group aren't guaranteed to get what they want. 

 

If things did go public, then the best case scenario for me is that you can only have one of a name per scroll. I'd still personally prefer global exclusivity though, and I won't be heartbroken if it changes, I'll just never personally advocate for opening things up. 

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32 minutes ago, High Lord November said:

If things did go public, then the best case scenario for me is that you can only have one of a name per scroll. 

Had brought that up on the previous page and was told that it wouldn't work very well, for instance people who want to do lyrical lineages still wouldn't be able to do them properly.

On that note, besides the name locking idea, another thing that came to my mind was creating a "whitelist" of sorts that includes common names, allowing people to use them freely while still preserving the more original ones. Unfortunately though an idea like that would entail consolidating a very, very, very, very long list of names and still wouldn't benefit cases like lyrical lineages :( It's a thing I figured would at least somewhat work in theory, if only it didn't require so much work that it wouldn't be worth it. Just hoping to brainstorm something, hoping that on the off-chance there's a creative way that benefits everyone and hasn't been thought of yet.

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7 hours ago, High Lord November said:

The only true middle ground seems like letting people choose if they want the name to be exclusive or not. It would have to be an opt-out system (everything is automatically exclusive unless you check a box) and I don't know how many people would care to go through their scroll and make things non-exclusive.

*a few others have said the same but I'm quoting this one because it was easiest to quote on mobile

 

A possible improvement (if implemented) to the exclusivity would be a page that lists ALL your named dragons (unnamed would not be shown) and has the box next to the same [think like the trade hub page when setting up a trade].

 

There could be an uncheck all option that wipes the system.** Then it's just a matter of going back and checking the ones you want to remain exclusive [in my case, I have somewhere around 3,500 named dragons - of those names, I think maybe there's somewhere around 30 names I'd make exclusive...and I can find them all quickly via ctrl-F.

 

**Using uncheck all/unchecking a name would not automatically make it free. There would be a confirmation box like most of the BSA's**

 

Also, the reason I said the default name option is exclusive as opposed to 'free to use' is because of time zones.

 

While I would HOPE there would be a delay before being implemented (if this idea was to be done) - this safe guards those in different time zones who may not be on in time to "reserve" a name they want kept exclusive [ex. I would be upset if I logged in and tried to exclusify Rivenese Bronze- only to find I can't as there's now a few additionals]

Edited by ShorahNagi

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Tj is a fan of all or nothing, so I feel a partial name exclusivity wouldn’t pass. I also see it being a nightmare in terms of name hogging and potentially name stealing. It would be better if name exclusivity was just removed completely.

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I still think having an indicator on whether a name was unique or not would be a pretty good compromise - it'd still allow those who wish to hunt for exclusive names to keep doing so without ruining the fun for those of us who couldn't care less.  Both sides get what they want, at least to a reasonable extent, without radically altering the experience for the other, yes?

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1 hour ago, Falorni said:

I still think having an indicator on whether a name was unique or not would be a pretty good compromise - it'd still allow those who wish to hunt for exclusive names to keep doing so without ruining the fun for those of us who couldn't care less.  Both sides get what they want, at least to a reasonable extent, without radically altering the experience for the other, yes?

Well, no. You find a unique name - great.

 

Someone else then uses it and it is no longer unique.

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On 11/6/2021 at 4:56 AM, High Lord November said:

Either a name is exclusive, or it isn't. Middle ground would look like people who want to keep their names exclusive keeping their names exclusive, and people who don't care about exclusive names using public names. If all names are immediately open, you can no longer enforce exclusivity. It does mean the public group aren't guaranteed to get what they want. 

 

 

This idea of "optional exclusivity" reminds me of certain messaging apps/read receipts, where you must allow your own "last seen" status to be shown in order to see others' status.

 

Maybe a compromise could look something like this (which allows for users to stick to their principles of exclusivity, or non exclusivity):

  • If you choose to opt in to name exclusivity, you get to put dibs on all names on your scroll, but you also give up all rights to use non exclusive names (i.e. status quo, where you already can't use the same name).
  • If you choose to opt out, you get to use all non-exclusive names. If you want to share a name, you must open your whole scroll's names up for sharing too. You don't get the benefits of public names without contributing ^^; All names used by such players, even if currently only used once, become non-exclusive. Over time, more names will be added to the public group if more people want to get access to names already taken.

 

Personally I don't have a preference on this thread :)  

Edited by PonyTales

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On 11/4/2021 at 5:38 PM, kiramaru7 said:

I decided to take another peek at this thread again & I'm really sorry; I don't get why name exclusivity is the be all to end all that those in favor of it  claim it to be. Seriously. Think of your own given names are you any less special in your parents' eyes if the J. Does down the block have a child with the same name? Also think of all the hatred & resentment that would go on if said Does had the only child on the planet with that name, cuz they named their child first. And think of all the weird & stupid work arounds or just weird & stupid names that people would have if everyone on the planet had to have a unique name. Can you imagine how obnoxious those Does would sound if they went on about having 10 kids with names that no one thought of first & how it easy it was for them to come up with those names? Right? Now imagine them saying to their neighbors, who wanted to name their child Bob, but the Does had the name first, that they could try naming their kid B o b or BoB  or bOb, or Bobb, or even 808. I for one can't see that neighbor being told that being very happy about it.  And what about Bob's dynasty, you ask? How do people distinguish it from Bob's dynasty? By the time & place each occurred. And what about those horrible fake!Bob dynasties? And the inbred ones? Well, there's ways to determine those too. So it takes a bit of effort to figure out which Bob dynasty you want, it seems a lot less effort than trying to come up with an acceptable work around for the ones who also want to have a Bob in their family, cuz Bob is a name that screams "mighty destiny". Or maybe they just want to name all their kids Bob. Honestly, having a million Bobs in the world isn't that a thing & it doesn't make your Bob any less special. And for those who like unique names, well, they can name their kid bOb.

 

I just want to say, it's not my intention to call anyone out or make anyone feel bad or insulted cuz they like something I seriously don't get. Names aren't exclusive in real life, with the exception of usernames, but that's not what we're talking about here and they have to be unique in order to identify those who are abusing the system. I do childcare for a living & let's just say you can tell which names were popular in a given period. Is it confusing? Yeah it can be in the beginning, but you get used to it, & to make it even more confusing, my boss & another woman I've worked with both have the same name, but no one has any trouble telling them apart.

 

One more thing; I like to write stories for fun & I've given 2 different characters the same first name & no one to my knowledge has ever confused them or thought they were the same character in a different setting.

 

I have a painfully common name and I hate it, and although my parents gave it to me out of love, I am planning on changing it when they die (they did the super unique thing so many parents do [sarcasm] and named me after relatives). Am I more special than any other human in the world? Absolutely not. But I'd rather be at least a little more unique than the likely half a billion people with my first name, and probably the millions with both my first and surname (I literally never come up in the Google results because of how painfully bland and common my name is). My chosen full name (the combination of first, middle an surname) on the other hand I have yet to see anywhere else on the planet, so I'm excited about it.

I just like the mechanic because it does provide some uniqueness on a site of nothing but sameness other than usernames. Just my 2 cents though.

Also, this whole debate makes me think of The Naming of Cats from CATS and T.S. Eliot, lol.

Edited by Wahya

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1 hour ago, Wahya said:

 

also, this whole debate makes me think of The Naming of Cats from CATS and T.S. Eliot, lol.

 

I think I love you....

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Just as a sidenote...

 

I thought if a player goes inactive for 6 months or more, their dragons lose their names. I know it was that way at one time, because that happened to me, many years back. Now I make sure to log in regularly, cause I had to go back and rename every. single. dragon.

 

Some people are talking like that is not the rule anymore, and dragons keep their names forever. Is this true?

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Yes, that's how it works now. It's been that way for quite a long time.

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4 hours ago, Aniia said:

Just as a sidenote...

 

I thought if a player goes inactive for 6 months or more, their dragons lose their names. I know it was that way at one time, because that happened to me, many years back. Now I make sure to log in regularly, cause I had to go back and rename every. single. dragon.

 

Some people are talking like that is not the rule anymore, and dragons keep their names forever. Is this true?

You're not the only one that happened to and it was discontinued because of that. Most people don't want it to return, there's a few that would be okay with it but the majority of people that've given an opinion are against name wiping.

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On 11/10/2021 at 3:31 PM, Fuzzbucket said:

Well, no. You find a unique name - great.

 

Someone else then uses it and it is no longer unique.

But it was unique when YOU got it.  A lot of the users have voiced that FINDING new names is a big part of their fun, this post was specifically directed at them; I know no compromise will please all of you since obviously people on both sides have diff reasons for their opinion lol

Edited by Falorni
sounded mean initially had to reword better

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Poking my head back into this thread to add something I ran into today. 

 

I can understand people not wanting names to be wiped for inactivity, but could we possibly have names wiped for people who have been banned? I attempted to name a dragon today, but the name was taken. I looked at the dragon, and the owner has had their scroll burnt. 

 

If someone has been banned, they're not going to come back, without intervention from TJ. I cannot see a purpose in not wiping these names. 

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I'm gonna chime in with s'Kairi and say there are a few basic things that make this a bigger issue than it should be. Totally down with the overall arguments on either side, but I agree that if names are "forever kept" on people who kill dragons that *Do Not* become zombies (and disappear into the ether) and people who have been banned from the game or are on so rarely - and the names stay forever - that makes name exclusivity a bit worse in ways that don't really make sense.

 

I get that it was a big thing when The Original Midas Dorkface and Shally lost their names because they are pretty firmly grounded in this game's lore so, while I do not like that names last forever regardless of activity (even after say  - 5 years of inactivity) I can understand because of those examples - things that have literally gone into the nether and cannot be viewed, be bred, cannot be pulled back and cease to exist other than recycled bits - why do those names stick around? If we could clear some of those out first, then at least it would open some options and let the discussion continue on things that don't seem like simple but potential small fixes vs. the larger issues.

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As someone who wants name exclusivity to stick around, I do agree that dead-but-unzombified dragons and the dragons on burnt scrolls should have their names freed up in some manner.

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1 hour ago, Guillotine said:

As someone who wants name exclusivity to stick around, I do agree that dead-but-unzombified dragons and the dragons on burnt scrolls should have their names freed up in some manner.

Yeah, as a name-exclusivity fan I can get behind that.

 

Burnt scrolls especially as they either broke the rules and would not be welcomed back, or maybe actively asked for it to burn their bridges because they wanted a clean break and wouldn't come back without likely wanting a fresh start anyway (assuming that were possible)

 

I would understand a grace period, to allow cases of an accidental ban (rare I assume, but not impossible) to avoid losing names in the event it needs to be appealed and reversed, but the names shouldn't be eternally locked up that way.

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I prefer name exclusivity, but I fully support dragons on burnt scroll having their names freed up. Dead but unzombified is a different story, I would prefer the owner being able to rename the dragon (and thus deciding if that dead dragon want to keep the name around) - there are lineages that start with tombstones, for lyrical lineages and other stuff, while I personally do not have those I can see why some people might want names to stick around on a dead dragon with offsprings. It's much easier than purbred zombie line to make. I feel like that deserve their own thread though.

Edited by Moriaty

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Support for non-exclusive naming, but I will say I'm not super invested one way or another. Mostly I've just noticed a trend lately in the trades where people are pretty insistent for 'nicely' (subjective, obviously) named/no scroll tags (i think that's what people call them?) for the parents. While that's fine, want what you want, it makes it harder for people who don't want to constantly have to come up with 'unique' variations of random sounds smashed together.

 

For context: random sounds smashed together is exactly how I come up with names. Though all of my dragons start with 'psy's' because I got tired of 'Youjira... okay nope that's taken. Wexana? Nope, also gone. Floriathiviesta? WHO HAS THAT.' And that being said, I'd still keep the scroll tag (seriously is that what it's called?) of 'psy's' because 1) I don't trade much so it rarely affects me), 2) I like being able to easily see where my dragons are in a lineage with out having to remember what random heckin' thing I named them, and 3) I'm too lazy to rename and like consistency. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

tldr; doesn't affect me one way or the other but non-exclusivity has my vote because I think it would make the majority of the userbase's life easier.

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Name exclusivity is an outdated concept that hurts creativity and drives people away. As more and more pet sites move away from name exclusivity or start out with non-exclusive names, the more I really can't justify the reasons people want exclusive names. Especially in collecting games like this where one user will have hundreds or thousands of pets that can all have their own unique name. Eventually, those names are going to run out. People have to keep adding garbage they don't want (extra spaces, syllables, letters, etc) to names or give up entirely on certain ideas. Its not fun trying to name your pets just to name them or try to come up with characters/lore when so little is actually available.

 

On other pet sites, I've seen names changing from exclusive to non-exclusive provide a huge boost to the pet community on site. Not having those arbitrary restrictions really opens up an infinite number of possibilities. I would love to see the community here get that same opportunity. It would open up so many interesting lineages that are currently impossible to make.

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On 11/10/2021 at 4:52 PM, Fuzzbucket said:

 

I think I love you....

 

Sorry it took me a hot minute to get back to this! Ha ha ❤️

I don't know if you remember me, but I certainly remember you! I was active here many years ago, but then so many things on this site changed that I don't care for/disagree with that I just lost interest.

This is one of the last things I enjoy that I'd rather not see removed.

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1 hour ago, Wahya said:

 

Sorry it took me a hot minute to get back to this! Ha ha ❤️

I don't know if you remember me, but I certainly remember you! I was active here many years ago, but then so many things on this site changed that I don't care for/disagree with that I just lost interest.

This is one of the last things I enjoy that I'd rather not see removed.

 

I remember you very well. And I'm glad to see we still get along :lol:

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Paradoxically, in my case, it makes it easier to pick names when no two dragons can have the same name. Otherwise we'd have endless options. But this is a personal thing, I know, and I'm not trying to offer it as an argument for keeping names exclusive. 😹 Anyway, myself I wouldn't like name exclusivity to be removed, mostly because I enjoy them being special, I guess. But I do understand the frustration. Actually, I have to say that (unlike most others) I would support name wiping after a considerable period of inactivity. Definitely nothing like 6 months, it would have to be a much longer time, and maybe only after a warning email that would let the player know that since they haven't used their account for X years, their dragons will lose names after X days/weeks unless they log in before that. Then they would have the opportunity to save those names in case they care and plan to return.

 

But I won't try to give any real arguments for my opinions after just peeking at this thread, I really don't have the energy to go through all earlier discussion.

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