Cave egg sprite revamp or reveal

[CryptidUni]

I hope this is not duplicate suggestion but here we go.

___

Introduction: What is this?

Hello and welcome to the topic of “Egg sprites from caves should be revealed” or also known as “please revamp the question mark egg from exploring”.

Context: This is a small idea I had after CB paper dragon snatched from me while I was “reading around” and “stealing eggs”.

 

Main point: I think we should be able to at least see sprites of the already discovered/owned eggs. Which would make the exploring more interesting and quick.

Conclusion: Why?
Reading is a much slower process than looking at a single image. Someone is ought to snatch that rare egg before me while I’m reading the description with excitement. Which means if you are late just by a second, you are not getting that Aeon wyvern. It’s problematic for newbies like me. I don’t wanna scroll through the whole wiki to find it was just a common egg and get egg-locked. Not to mention “Which Egg is which” section doesn’t have a rarity column and that is another small hassle.

Abandoned egg page is not the best either but that’s another discussion for another day.

 

This will make ”exploring” more fun. But the only downside is it might take some server space and loading time. Unless if we make it optional for users we’ll be just fine. Maybe a switch in user settings to disable or enable the “Enigma Egg”.

Closing: I don’t have the biggest understanding on game coding but all I know is it’s a giant mess.

But logically if I know what that egg looks like then why am I looking at a grey oval with a question mark on it?

Which doesn’t make sense even logically/lore-wise?

Gameplay-wise I think it might have been an attempt to minimize server space? Idk

 

Thank you for reading, I hope you have a great day!

 

Edited April 28, 2020 by CryptidUni

[Shokomon]

That's not a bad idea. Like when you unlock the egg in the encyclopedia, you get to see it in the cave as well. It could use the same mechanic that unlocks eggs in the Market, so it wouldn't be something new.

 

I like this.

(I definitely process images faster than words, so I'm on board with that.)

[CryptidUni]

@/Shokomon Yeah exactly dude! Thank you for your support! XDD

[Jazeki]

I don't mind this, but I do want to point out two things:

 

1. The game used to show the pictures of the eggs with the description.

 

2. There was a point where you could copy paste the grab code and change it to lineage to see the egg before you picked it up. People used this to see eggs with similar descriptions (pink vs. flamingo, etc.).

 

Both have been changed to what we have now. You can only see the question mark.

 

One downside is that it would be much easier for someone who has unlocked the encyclopedia/has many years of experience to catch rares/desirable eggs than someone else who has not. Reading can be a chore, yes. But everyone has to take the time to do it and cave hunting is luck of the draw. 

[CryptidUni]

 

...It’s more of a “who memorized most lines of word for the rare egg description” type deal when it comes to stealing eggs, which I don’t really have the time for? I don’t mind the chore, if I had more time.

DC is more of a 15 min break for me. I don’t want it to be ”I am a slow reader/searcher, it’s all my fault that I didn’t get that egg”.
It varies from person to person, of course.

Also someone who’s been veteran of DC would've already knowN the desc as well as the egg sprites so they lose practically nothing. I am saying it would be more advantageous for new players to recognize both.

(And the introduction of market must've had much more hard punch economy than simple egg sprite)

 

P.s: Some of the desc are very similar or identical to each other which was confusing at first.

 

Edited April 28, 2020 by CryptidUni

[Jazeki]

19 minutes ago, CryptidUni said:

 

...It’s more of a “who memorized most lines of word for the rare egg description” type deal when it comes to stealing eggs, which I don’t really have the time for? I don’t mind the chore, if I had more time.

DC is more of a 15 min break for me. I don’t want it to be ”I am a slow reader/searcher, it’s all my fault that I didn’t get that egg”.
It varies from person to person, of course.

Also someone who’s been veteran of DC would've already knowN the desc as well as the egg sprites so they lose practically nothing. I am saying it would be more advantageous for new players to recognize both.

(And the introduction of market must've had much more hard punch economy than simple egg sprite)

 

P.s: Some of the desc are very similar or identical to each other which was confusing at first.

 

 

The similar descriptions are done on purpose. 

 

I can't speak for TJ, but I'm pretty sure the pictures were taken away to even the playing field for everyone. 

 

Again, I don't mind this suggestion, but "I'm new and I don't have a lot of time" shouldn't be the basis for your argument.

[Stromboli]

There's an older thread for this:

 

 

[CryptidUni]

40 minutes ago, Jazeki said:

 

The similar descriptions are done on purpose. 

 

I can't speak for TJ, but I'm pretty sure the pictures were taken away to even the playing field for everyone. 

 

Again, I don't mind this suggestion, but "I'm new and I don't have a lot of time" shouldn't be the basis for your argument.

Hmm yee, I might’ve got bit personal on details.

[CryptidUni]

30 minutes ago, Stromboli said:

There's an older thread for this:

 

 

Oh hey thank you dude!

 

[Shokomon]

31 minutes ago, Stromboli said:

There's an older thread for this:

 

 

I thought that one was specifically around making the egg visible in general, rather than linked to unlocking the encyclopedia. 

[Stromboli]

The discussion turned pretty quickly to linking it to encyclopedia progress, idk if it got busted out into its own thread.

[purplehaze]

I may be wrong, but I feel like this would favor those with faster reflexes even more than the way it is now.

[animatedrose]

Yeah, I have to say this would insanely favor the already fast guys to swipe those desirables even faster. Yeah, it takes less time to process and image than text...so you'd have to be even faster than you already are to win in an image grab contest than a reading contest. This wouldn't really help newbies much unless they already did research before joining. Plus with the image there, the descriptions are rather worthless because nobody will read them.

 

Not saying this wouldn't be nice, but this being put in the "this will help newbies" perspective...sorry but it won't. It will actually hurt them more unless they are in the fast internet users category already. And when holiday time rolls around, oh boy.

[Fuzzbucket]

2 hours ago, Jazeki said:

 

One downside is that it would be much easier for someone who has unlocked the encyclopedia/has many years of experience to catch rares/desirable eggs than someone else who has not. Reading can be a chore, yes. But everyone has to take the time to do it and cave hunting is luck of the draw. 

 

This, so much. It would disadvantage newer players quite disproportionately.

 

1 hour ago, Jazeki said:

 

The similar descriptions are done on purpose. 

 

I can't speak for TJ, but I'm pretty sure the pictures were taken away to even the playing field for everyone. 

 

Again, I don't mind this suggestion, but "I'm new and I don't have a lot of time" shouldn't be the basis for your argument.

 

This, too. We were all new once. (I used to keep a print out of egg descriptions on my desk., And I was even on dialup. S-L-O-W dialup.)

 

12 minutes ago, animatedrose said:

Yeah, I have to say this would insanely favor the already fast guys to swipe those desirables even faster. Yeah, it takes less time to process and image than text...so you'd have to be even faster than you already are to win in an image grab contest than a reading contest. This wouldn't really help newbies much unless they already did research before joining. Plus with the image there, the descriptions are rather worthless because nobody will read them.

 

Not saying this wouldn't be nice, but this being put in the "this will help newbies" perspective...sorry but it won't. It will actually hurt them more unless they are in the fast internet users category already. And when holiday time rolls around, oh boy.

 

Exactly this. No support, sorry.

[Shadowdrake]

I have to say, I think the cave is fair as-is. People with difficulty reading but otherwise fine eyes will have a disadvantage in the biomes but can hunt fine in AP, while people with problems distinguishing eggs such as colorblindness will have a disadvantage in the AP but can hunt fine in the cave. If you added images to the cave it would immediately put the second group at a bigger disadvantage because telling eggs apart at a glance is much faster than reading descriptions.

[DragonLady86]

Also how would alts be handled? Things like dorsals/ridgewings? Even the market doesn't tell you which you are getting. Its supposed to be a gamble.

 

The mystery eggs make it more fair. Everyone is on the same page. 

 

You will learn the descriptions as you go. Best way to hunt rares is to pick ONE and watch for that description.

 

It's a no from me.

[HeatherMarie]

7 hours ago, purplehaze said:

I may be wrong, but I feel like this would favor those with faster reflexes even more than the way it is now.

 

Agree. The whole idea of showing biome eggs has been tossed around for years, and no matter the details of the suggestion it's *always* going to favor a certain subset of users. Those with faster reflexes is a good example. If it's tied to the encyclopedia it's even more unfair, and certainly isn't going to help newbies if you have to unlock things first. 

 

 

3 hours ago, DragonLady86 said:

Also how would alts be handled? Things like dorsals/ridgewings? Even the market doesn't tell you which you are getting. Its supposed to be a gamble.

 

The mystery eggs make it more fair. Everyone is on the same page. 

 

You will learn the descriptions as you go. Best way to hunt rares is to pick ONE and watch for that description.

 

It's a no from me.

 

The alts are, again, an issue that has been discussed with this suggestion many times. And it's a good point. Some have suggested that it be just like the Market where you don't know which one you are getting until you get it, but in the case of the biomes it just doesn't make sense. Especially considering biome eggs have a 5-hour cooldown, it seems immensely unfair to show an egg, grab it and see it's not what you thought, and *then* have to wait 5 hours to abandon it.

 

I also agree that this just isn't needed in general. Of course it's rough when you are new and haven't memorized descriptions or don't know all the dragons, but you will learn. If you are interested in playing the game then you will learn. I've been here for over a decade and I still sometimes goof up, not realizing a certain description is a rare or something... It's part of the game. And it makes it fair across the board, everyone sees the same thing and everyone has to read the description (or a few key words at least). 

 

(It honestly does seem that your suggestions are geared towards you wanting to go fast in this game, get things easier, skip that 'newbie' stage, etc. This game is not a fast game, in any sense. It takes time to learn descriptions, takes time to figure out what is rare/common/etc, even just takes time to raise a dragon from egg to adult. Patience is pretty important in this game. If you simply don't have the time for it, that's fine, you can make that decision. But wanting to 'move up' in the game faster is just not a good reason for drastic changes.)

[Fuzzbucket]

7 hours ago, HeatherMarie said:

 

(It honestly does seem that your suggestions are geared towards you wanting to go fast in this game, get things easier, skip that 'newbie' stage, etc. This game is not a fast game, in any sense. It takes time to learn descriptions, takes time to figure out what is rare/common/etc, even just takes time to raise a dragon from egg to adult. Patience is pretty important in this game. If you simply don't have the time for it, that's fine, you can make that decision. But wanting to 'move up' in the game faster is just not a good reason for drastic changes.)

 

This was my feeling too. Not least given your other thread, trying to buy  egg slots from the market to speed things up. One thing many MANY of us like about this game is that it is leisurely. If you want high speed excitement, perhaps somewhere else will suit you better.

[TJ09]

16 hours ago, Jazeki said:

Again, I don't mind this suggestion, but "I'm new and I don't have a lot of time" shouldn't be the basis for your argument.

Making the game more accessible, especially to people who otherwise wouldn't play (or wouldn't play as effectively as more dedicated players) is a perfectly valid basis for an argument.

 

It's all about finding the right balance of things, and having a valid argument doesn't necessarily mean "this needs to happen," but that doesn't make it any less reasonable of a justification.

[Zhiyi1015]

8 hours ago, HeatherMarie said:

I also agree that this just isn't needed in general. Of course it's rough when you are new and haven't memorized descriptions or don't know all the dragons, but you will learn. If you are interested in playing the game then you will learn. I've been here for over a decade and I still sometimes goof up, not realizing a certain description is a rare or something... It's part of the game. And it makes it fair across the board, everyone sees the same thing and everyone has to read the description (or a few key words at least). 

Exactly, I totally agree that if you want to grab something you would definitely make more research about it. Personally I am not a fast reader too, but I can still grab some CB rares sometimes because I read their descriptions at the wiki uncountable times and learned them when I was a newbie. I have played for around 1 year and I still don't know some of the descriptions. Like recently I just found out that silver eggs have a different description with gold eggs. Seems unbelievable but yeah, I never look at my eggs' description after I breed them. This can be a chance for the others to grab a CB silver at the biomes if there is a silver and I am there, because I always thought it is glow back pygmy. If the images is shown, there would not be such thing happening though. It would become a game for players with fast Internet connection because they don't even need to read the description.

 

Of course if you are a newbie and you have a busy life, you need more time to acknowledge the egg description or maybe you don't even know that's a rare and at that time the others have already grabbed it. That happens to all the newbies. I don't think there is anyone that can memorize the description as soon as they start DC. You still need some time to get familiar with them. I think this is the process everyone should experience when they play DC. it is a matter of time, effort and patience you put in DC. 

 

In addition, the alts is also a good point there. You do not need to be worry to get egglocked by a purple ridgewing or purple dorsal because you can see them. These are all chances if the images are not shown. If you want a rare, trading is a good way too. You can try grabbing some undine, Dark greens, blacks to make some alts and trade them. They are valuable too. If you want the excitement to grab a rare yourself, learn. 

 

I think a very complicated and strict requirement is needed for this to really help newbies. So, I am currently not very supportive about this suggestion unless there is a brilliant idea about how this should work to help newbies. 

Edited April 29, 2020 by Zhiyi1015

[Jazeki]

1 hour ago, TJ09 said:

Making the game more accessible, especially to people who otherwise wouldn't play (or wouldn't play as effectively as more dedicated players) is a perfectly valid basis for an argument.

 

It's all about finding the right balance of things, and having a valid argument doesn't necessarily mean "this needs to happen," but that doesn't make it any less reasonable of a justification.

I understand and see where you're coming from in terms of casual player retention. I agree that the game should be accessible for everyone (to the best of its ability) and I should have included a modifier somewhere in that sentence to properly convey my intent. I meant to say that being new probably shouldn't be the driving argument behind a suggestion. Lots of players are new or simply  don't have the time, energy, or desire to for dedicated game play. But if they stick around, the idea of making a suggestion under the guise of benefitting new players doesn't apply anymore.

 

The concern for me is that CrpytidUni's push for this idea shifted very quickly from unlocking the encyclopedia/enhanced game experience to having an easier time picking up uncommon or rare dragons in their short amount of time that they have to play.

 

I also would like to have an easier time catching things when I'm short on time and I'd probably really benefit from the suggestion if it was implemented, but I don't think this is the best way to handle the growing pains  that come with being new/not knowing all the eggs/not having time to sink into playing.

 

If it were me, and I was new, I'd probably spend even less time trying to learn the game/descriptions and possibly less time playing if this was implemented. I'd just memorize the pictures of all the dragons I want and call it a day if I didn't see them. That's me, though.  

 

I can see where this idea works from a visual gameplay perspective. If we know what the sprite looks like, we probably should be able to see it in the cave. But we have the AP for that. 

 

Again, I don't really care if this gets implemented. But I also don't really see it drastically improving gameplay. 

 

Edited April 29, 2020 by Jazeki
Removed extra space from mobile typing.

[olympe]

16 hours ago, purplehaze said:

I may be wrong, but I feel like this would favor those with faster reflexes even more than the way it is now.

At least visible egg sprites don't favor native speaker > non-native with good English > non-native with a different alphabet, but good English > non-English speakers > illiterates / non-natives who don't know the Roman alphabet.

 

[HeatherMarie]

7 hours ago, olympe said:

At least visible egg sprites don't favor native speaker > non-native with good English > non-native with a different alphabet, but good English > non-English speakers > illiterates / non-natives who don't know the Roman alphabet.

 

 

While I completely understand this and am not trying to argue against this point in any way, I would like to point out that DC *is* an English game, the description guidelines even say outright that descriptions have to be in 'American English', so while accessibility for non-native speakers and such is completely understandable I very much doubt this game will ever be easily accessible for people who don't know English at all.

 

All in all I very much agree with the things @Jazeki said in their last post. There are certain things about DC that I would heavily support changes to under the whole idea of accessibility. The issue is more the idea of pushing for specific changes *only* because you want to get/do things faster from the start without having to 'be the newbie', basically. It may seem like a subtle difference to some, but there definitely is a difference, wanting to fast-track all the good and fun gameplay without struggling or putting in the work/time everyone else has (vs) wanting to make changes specifically because there are better ways something can be done that would help everyone.

[olympe]

1 hour ago, HeatherMarie said:

While I completely understand this and am not trying to argue against this point in any way, I would like to point out that DC *is* an English game, the description guidelines even say outright that descriptions have to be in 'American English', so while accessibility for non-native speakers and such is completely understandable I very much doubt this game will ever be easily accessible for people who don't know English at all.

While that is true, even people who speak English well, but use a different alphabet day in and day out will have a disadvantage over those who use the Roman alphabet. There's also the matter of dyslexia.

[icearashi]

But remember, we already have the AP, we can only see the egg sprite there. I agree to what most people said up there, I understand that newbies won’t be able to get rare eggs as fast as more experienced players. But as the time goes on, you’ll memorise most of it and you’ll be like the experienced players. Yes, alts are probably the biggest problem of this. And I completely agree what the others said about it. It’s just the chances and the joy of grabbing an alt dorsal/ridgewing.