Cave egg sprite revamp or reveal

[Spirulina]

On 4/29/2020 at 12:02 PM, olympe said:

At least visible egg sprites don't favor native speaker > non-native with good English > non-native with a different alphabet, but good English > non-English speakers > illiterates / non-natives who don't know the Roman alphabet.

 

And that's the only resonable argument. 

But still, there always be someone who is color blind for example and find it unfair. 

Guys, it's a GAME

You know, for fun. 

 

Personally I'm not native speaker. 

It's quite hard for me to read fast in not my language, memorize similiar descriptions and maindlesly click before dozen other players. 

And so what. 

Missed few rares. Got another. Had incredibile luck or not necessary... 

 

Remember when game is too easy it's boring

Of course when it's too hard it's frustrating. 

 

But in this case not see the point for changing

And yes, it drives me out to miss nice eggs or even worse, to wait for cooldown after misclick and beeing scroll lock

But without it it will become just stupid clicking time after time until you get what you want. 

It may sounds cliche, but in this game you need to learn you can't get everything in one time, to wait, to choose. 

And mostly to hunt of course 😈

[Fuzzbucket]

2 minutes ago, Spirulina said:

 

It may sounds cliche, but in this game you need to learn you can't get everything in one time, to wait, to choose. 

And mostly to hunt of course 😈

 

Applauds. You ar so very right.

[olympe]

There's patience, and there's "impossible to get". I don't know if it's due to my reflexes, due to not reading fast enough or due to internet speed, but I have yet to catch a CB gold I've been playing DC without a real hiatus of more than two weeks (due to vacation) for 10.5 years. Just saying.

[Nightmon]

Not native english speaking with an attention disorder here! 

Idk if my opinion would really matter, but I like the idea of showing the egg. With only the description, I'm never fast enough. When I am, it's for the wrong egg and when that would egg lock me for at least 6hs 🤷‍♂️ 

 

But I can understand if its out of the question, but something that could still be usefull is maybe if the egg unknown icon actually reflect the size of the egg? Like at least a different sprite for the pygmy, drake or etc. So when I'm looking for a pygmy, I can try to focus on the description of actual pygmy. 

[icearashi]

There will be no reason to have an egg description or any of that then. It is of course hard to get certain dragon eggs from the cave. If you want to be able to get a cb rare, work for it. Similar to how AP only shows images, why would you need extra help with the descriptions?

 

41 minutes ago, Nightmon said:

Like at least a different sprite for the pygmy, drake or etc. So when I'm looking for a pygmy, I can try to focus on the description of actual pygmy. 

I believe every pygmy starts with this egg is tiny/small or something similar to that or at least includes it, if that is there, there is a reason for it. Then if we show the sprites then why don’t we just make the magelight pygmy description: This egg is engulfed in a cool, purple flame?

[Fiona]

Actually, with as many different eggs as we have now, I'd rather like it if the egg sprites were shown in the biomes rather than the mystery egg. When I was new, 12 years ago, there were only a handful of egg descriptions to memorize and it was easy. Now, though I've been here for every release, I often forget the exact description of some of the eggs and grab the wrong one. I'm sure some of you have sharper brains than I do so you don't experience that. So, I'm rather in favor of the suggestion, if it could be implemented in a balanced way. It wouldn't just benefit the newbies at this point. Or benefit the fast clickers. Images are easier to memorize I think, so it potentially could benefit anyone.

[Fuzzbucket]

What about the alts ? Would you just get the main one - all dorsal show purple, all ridgies too ? What about sun/moonstones ?

[Bloommist]

I see both sides and both reasons have merit and mabe there is a way it could be implementedto make it more even or a choice , yes the current game play could be possibly slightly squewed, I can see what people mean when they say it benefits the quicker reflexes, native speakers and so on, and why yes that can be slightly unfair, (without sounding harsh as I dont mean to in any way)

The very idea of a game is supposed to offer some challenges to acquiring objects- I may be native to the english language but I am very dyslexic and not the best reaction time and not the best reader and although I do sadly and frustratingly miss some much wanted eggs it only boosts the whant of play and the very rarity of them, I simply persevere with it and hope for the next time- you could argue this is the case with most games however, complex controls the minority with poorer dexterity have less of an advantage, to much text to read quickly some poorer readers misunderstand or loose aspects of game play, this is however sadly just game mechanics and with DC its simply luck in how my players in the biomes and who is playing at the time (again not to sound harsh I do understand were people are coming from, I to get upset if I miss an egg like the dino I missed the other week)

that may just be my opinion but I think showing the egg images as beautiful as they all are would either

1. make people not take unwanted eggs people will deliberately not take them so less egg turnover (could be wrong with this if so sorry)

2.  take away some mystery of game play 

3. Change basic gameplay some egg descriptions are the same or simlar to make the game more compelling, harder and fun- so the images will make it a lot easier to get certain breeds and eliminate the need for beautiful imaginative descriptions 

 

Also It could be argued images would only help a few extra subjects of people not everyone as a whole 

 

So in my opinion i think it's best to leave as is trying to memorize the descriptions can be fun and has been working fine for the vast majority- but then which nose there could be a good trade if of some sort I just dont know what

[pinkgothic]

19 minutes ago, Fuzzbucket said:

What about the alts ? Would you just get the main one - all dorsal show purple, all ridgies too ? What about sun/moonstones ?

Could continue to use the mystery egg image for those species in particular, or do something like this:   

[Shokomon]

What if it takes a higher goal to see eggs in the cave?

 

Or maybe it could be trophy linked?

 

By the time people reach Gold trophy, they probably know most of the egg descriptions. They could be allowed to start seeing the eggs in the cave. 

 

9 hours ago, Fuzzbucket said:

What about the alts ? Would you just get the main one - all dorsal show purple, all ridgies too ? What about sun/moonstones ?

What about an alternating gif for alt eggs?

Though for separate breeds, the egg of the breed should just show up. 

[Darkrat]

I do not support this as I feel like the images will make it more "who has the fastest internet." If there were no images even in the AP I could see this. I find myself losing a lot more eggs in the ap then the biomes due to the people with faster internet snatching them every time. This evens the playing field as people with slower internet can compete. The eggs in general do not look that similar to each other especially the rares. Paper, cheese, and Dino are very obvious and would be taken instantly. 

 

I especially don't support this as a trophy lock as that further harms newer players. You are not meant to get everything instantly you are meant to graduate to getting better things. 

 

 

[Fuzzbucket]

9 hours ago, Shokomon said:

What if it takes a higher goal to see eggs in the cave?

 

Or maybe it could be trophy linked?

 

 

 

No. The cave is a level playing field and needs to stay that way.

 

Quote

By the time people reach Gold trophy, they probably know most of the egg descriptions. They could be allowed to start seeing the eggs in the cave. 

 

There are still loads of people who show up and say what egg is this - when they have the image to look at. I don't think the recognition aspect works either way - there are people who don't know the egg and people who don't remember descriptions.

 

If we were to see only the eggs and not have the text I would be VERY much against this. For me - a words person - there would be WAY more misclicks than there are now. 

Edited May 31, 2020 by Fuzzbucket

[Shokomon]

6 hours ago, Fuzzbucket said:

 

No. The cave is a level playing field and needs to stay that way.

 

 

There are still loads of people who show up and say what egg is this - when they have the image to look at. I don't think the recognition aspect works either way - there are people who don't know the egg and people who don't remember descriptions.

 

If we were to see only the eggs and not have the text I would be VERY much against this. For me - a words person - there would be WAY more misclicks than there are now. 

I feel like I'm the opposite of you.

 

I get confused by descriptions easily especially with similar wording and that leads to misclicks in Cave.

 

Pictures make more sense to me, so recognition would come easier. (So, it's easier to grab things in the AP.)

 

Though, either way, my reaction time is slow, so I miss eggs all the time.

 

Pattern recognition works in both words and pictures. If the pictures show up, it helps people who lacking in the reading aspect (be it if they have learning disabilities, poor education, slow reading speed, non-native speaker, etc), while the words help those who's visual recognition skills or color recognition is lacking.

 

Those with both skills, well, they probably do well either way.

 

And I did say most descriptions, not all descriptions. There will no doubt be confusion over eggs descriptions or egg images. I just feel like images would help people who skill set leads them to more visual recognition.

 

Also, I would never suggest pictures only. That definitely skews the recognition skill level to the visual side. The only real advantage is that bots would have a harder time recognizing images. (Though, technology is improving in that aspect.)

[Screech]

On 5/30/2020 at 8:17 AM, Nightmon said:

With only the description, I'm never fast enough. When I am, it's for the wrong egg and when that would egg lock me for at least 6hs 🤷‍♂️

On 5/30/2020 at 9:21 AM, Fiona said:

Now, though I've been here for every release, I often forget the exact description of some of the eggs and grab the wrong one.

 

I still do that all the time. People who know me in real life say I have an excellent memory, so yeah, memorizing pictures of eggs and dissimilar egg descriptions is a piece of cake - even though English is not my native language. The similar descriptions slow me down quite a bit, and other people have the time to swipe the egg before I realize what it is. Plus, I don't have particularly good reflexes, or a lot of time on my hands. If the egg sprites were visible, it would benefit me: I would click without needing to process. But with all that said, I don't support this suggestion.

 

Like all games, DC is a question of personal strategy and of learning curves. If I really want a specific breed, I memorize that particular egg description (forgetting/ignoring all the others) and hang around the appropriate biome (or around a page that you know is always packed and has a high turnover, like the Alpine biome - or again use the opposite strategy of hanging around the least-occupied biomes so that there's less competition). I may make mistakes (misclicks and misfilters - I've repeatedly ignored Silver eggs because that's not what I was looking for and the mental lightbulb didn't ignite on time), but hey, I've always considered it as much part of the risk-reward of the game as the egg timers, AP grabbing, creating Neglecteds, using Earthquake, breeding Alts and hybrids, etc.

 

I've been playing since 2009 on a slow internet connection, and most of the good eggs I got in my early days were from the AP because that was the only place that I could reliably tell what I was getting - plus, if I made a mistake there, I could abandon right away and try again. To me, it has always been part of how this game is constructed. And because I couldn't spend more than 15mins online per every few days for most of these past 10 years, I chose a type of gaming/breeding that didn't require crazy cave lurking. I chose not to bother about lineages and only go for sprites I liked. That strategy is now evolving, but for the longest time it helped me get what I wanted from DC. My lineages are terrible but my dragons suit my tastes.

 

I don't feel that the current cave is particularly skewed towards any particular set of skills other than quick-clickers with quick connections - but aren't all click-based games skewed that way? It's like saying that the 100m sprint is skewed towards quick runners with good shoes. Making it easier to visually recognize mystery eggs might be skewing the race towards quick runners with good shoes and good lungs too, while making the descriptions more dissimilar might be skewing towards quick runners with good shoes and good blood circulation. Right now we might have the fairest setup in an unfair world.

 

All that to say that yeah, I'm not for this suggestion, sorry.

[Uther_Pendragon]

 

I really like the mystery eggs in the biomes, where I have to read *most* of the description. It adds a little spice. (is it a red dorsal this time? Nope! Sucks to be me, again!  Did I just get a (gasp) Cb gold?? Nope! Got another Lunar herald, whoops! Gotta stop reflex clicking when 'reflective' shows up!)

 

But: I also like that the AP has the sprites. It's great when there's a specific egg I'm hurriedly hunting for, to be able to see what's what.

 

 I truly enjoy that we have a separate space for both options, and that different styles of brain work is represented. For me, It wouldn't be as interesting if each section was exactly the same.

[olympe]

Yes, all those descriptions - many of which have an identical or almost-identical twin - really mess things up for me. And, honestly, I have an easier time linking the dragon egg to the breed/looks of the adults than with descriptions.

 

We have four distinct breeds with "strange markings on" the egg, two eggs that are "bright and pink", two more that have "brightly colored markings" and two that "resemble a glowing stone". Not all of them can be told apart with the help of the biomes. And that's not even taking into account similar descriptions or identical egg descriptions for breed-only varieties. *looks at Soulstones, Geodes and Shallow Waters* And you really don't want to know how many "brilliant radiance" eggs I caught because I mistook the meaning for "beautiful glow".  Way, waaaay too many.

 

There are four eggs in our biomes that have something to do with a puddle, three that are hot, lots and lots of eggs that have some markings on them - two descriptions actually start with "The markings on this egg...". Three eggs that are hidden, one that sits in front of the others while another one sits before other eggs... you get the idea. It's confusing as heck. And, while the egg sprites showing won't solve all problems (as there are similar-looking eggs around, especially if you're color blind), it would help.

 

And what about alts? I honestly don't care, as long as we don't get a mix of two sprites. Either show the actual variety, or show the more common one and let the finder be surprised if they get the rarer variety instead.

[HeatherMarie]

I do agree that similar descriptions can be hard/frustrating/etc (I've actually missed a few rares because I assumed the description was for a common). I'm not sure 'show images' is an easy fix for that, though, especially when we get into details like alts/variants and such. As for identical descriptions, pretty sure those are done on purpose (I believe at least one artist/etc confirmed it was a deliberate choice?) so I'm not sure that specific example would matter here. 

 

I've also started wondering if description+image wouldn't be *harder* for quick-grabbing than what we have now. Not everyone is going to benefit from images, many people do know keywords in text much easier. Some people would definitely be helped by seeing the egg image. But both text/image together? Vision is kinda complicated in many respects, and the eyes are usually drawn to specific things first. That's partially why vision tests are the way they are, for better or worse they usually have to take into account where the eye is likely to automatically go. I feel like text/image together might be more of a hindrance for many people, the eyes will automatically fixate on either/or the second the page is refreshed, which may mean it actually takes longer for the information to 'click' in the mind as 'specific breed'. I'm not claiming to know everything about this sort of thing, just putting forth a possibility that I haven't seen people really talk about, based on my own experiences. 

 

Edit: Didn't make it clear that I am *not* suggesting one without the other! Obviously what we have now seems to hinder some people, and images alone would be the same. Just putting forth possible issues to work through, definitely not suggesting one without the other!

Edited June 3, 2020 by HeatherMarie

[High Lord November]

I feel like I've had a harder time grabbing rare eggs from the AP compared to the Cave. Especially during the holidays - I know there are more people hunting, but there are tons more eggs and they still go so freaking fast!

 

I have a tendency to miss eggs when reading descriptions, or I'll change to a different biome before realizing that there was a rare egg in the previous biome and have to switch back. And I feel like that gives more chances to other people to pick it up. Sometimes I get the egg, sometimes I don't!

 

I know it's dependent on the person, so in this case I could see arguing for a visual cave section/biome, and a mystery egg cave section/biome. Maybe having two egg pools. I know there's discussion on adding more biomes, or adding an alternative biome. 

[Bloommist]

I know this may not be the option but might be worth mentioning it, but what if it could be made random when you click on a biome it will display images one time but another time the description eggs or some eggs out of the 3 will be images and some question marked instead, all though i guess the latter might be confusing more than helpful

 

Failing that unlockable by encyclopedia but mabe have it as an option that way people like myself and others who like the descriptions can choose to have it off or on and carry on as it currently is and others can progress and get the images over time 

 

Edited June 3, 2020 by Bloommist

[DragonLady86]

1 hour ago, Bloommist said:

I know this may not be the option but might be worth mentioning it, but what if it could be made random when you click on a biome it will display images one time but another time the description eggs or some eggs out of the 3 will be images and some question marked instead, all though i guess the latter might be confusing more than helpful

 

Failing that unlockable by encyclopedia but mabe have it as an option that way people like myself and others who like the descriptions can choose to have it off or on and carry on as it currently is and others can progress and get the images over time 

 

I think this would be problematic for everyone because how to you "filter" what your looking for. I pick just a word or two out of the breed description I'm looking for, or specific color in the ap. 

 

Filter is a bad word choice, but I'm usually looking for something specific and focusing on certain keywords.

[ADN6]

I personally would really dislike this. I like the difference between the AP and the biomes, and like others have mentioned making the eggs visible would completely change gameplay. The AP lets you see each egg, but you don't know the lineage behind it. So even if you see a nice breed, it may have a lineage you don't like (or, if you're looking for freezer fodder, it may have a really nice lineage that you don't want to freeze). Whereas in the cave, you know every single egg is caveborn. 

 

People are going to be able to automatically click stuff much faster when seeing an image versus reading words. That means people who are fast at clicking will get an even bigger advantage over those who aren't (e.g., the AP). Making people read opens up room for error and slows people down, thus making the game more difficult while also giving people who can't just jitterclick on a shiny egg a chance. 

 

I am fairly quick at clicking and I do well in the AP. Less well in the biomes. But I like that added difficulty, especially since caveborn eggs are usually considered more valuable. 

 

The biggest issue I see here is for people who don't speak English as a first language or people who have trouble reading quickly. They're at a disadvantage when they need to read. However, people who are colorblind, as well as people who have trouble clicking extremely quickly are at a disadvantage when the egg sprites are shown. The current system allows for two different styles of gameplay, and I wouldn't be a fan of merging that into only one style. 

[purplehaze]

On 6/1/2020 at 8:05 PM, Uther_Pendragon said:

 I truly enjoy that we have a separate space for both options, and that different styles of brain work is represented. For me, It wouldn't be as interesting if each section was exactly the same.

 

34 minutes ago, ADN6 said:

I personally would really dislike this. I like the difference between the AP and the biomes, and like others have mentioned making the eggs visible would completely change gameplay. The AP lets you see each egg, but you don't know the lineage behind it. So even if you see a nice breed, it may have a lineage you don't like (or, if you're looking for freezer fodder, it may have a really nice lineage that you don't want to freeze). Whereas in the cave, you know every single egg is caveborn. 

 

People are going to be able to automatically click stuff much faster when seeing an image versus reading words. That means people who are fast at clicking will get an even bigger advantage over those who aren't (e.g., the AP). Making people read opens up room for error and slows people down, thus making the game more difficult while also giving people who can't just jitterclick on a shiny egg a chance. 

I agree very much with these views. The way things are set up now allows for two different skill sets or strengths to come into play. It gives the game more variation than it would have if the eggs were visible both places. People with slower reaction times would suffer and the fast clickers would be at a huge advantage.

 

I do not see this as an improvement to the game at all.

[Fuzzbucket]

1 hour ago, ADN6 said:

People are going to be able to automatically click stuff much faster when seeing an image versus reading words. That means people who are fast at clicking will get an even bigger advantage over those who aren't (e.g., the AP). Making people read opens up room for error and slows people down, thus making the game more difficult while also giving people who can't just jitterclick on a shiny egg a chance. 

 

ER - no.I click FAR faster for words than for images - and I'm not alone.

[HeatherMarie]

Regardless of if images-only, description-only, both, whatever: Big Huge NO for any sort of unlocking/encyclopedia-tied/etc. *That* is the *most* unfair idea in this thread. If the reason for this whole convo is helping newbies, *that* would not help them in any sense and would greatly advantage players that have been around for awhile and unlocked everything already. If the reason is 'text is more difficult for some people than others', how would this suggestion help that? Eggs are easier to memorize/remember, okay, but users will still have to *view* eggs in order to get them 'unlocked' in the first place, and until they do they are still in that 'text is harder' position. 

 

No unlocking. No requirements. If this is a suggestion to help people, it can't be hidden behind that sort of thing. 

[Fuzzbucket]

10 hours ago, HeatherMarie said:

Regardless of if images-only, description-only, both, whatever: Big Huge NO for any sort of unlocking/encyclopedia-tied/etc. *That* is the *most* unfair idea in this thread. If the reason for this whole convo is helping newbies, *that* would not help them in any sense and would greatly advantage players that have been around for awhile and unlocked everything already. If the reason is 'text is more difficult for some people than others', how would this suggestion help that? Eggs are easier to memorize/remember, okay, but users will still have to *view* eggs in order to get them 'unlocked' in the first place, and until they do they are still in that 'text is harder' position. 

 

No unlocking. No requirements. If this is a suggestion to help people, it can't be hidden behind that sort of thing. 

 

One zillion % agree with this. Level playing field, please.