Abandoned Page Compendium - Display Suggestions

[Shadowdrake]

26 minutes ago, Stormcaller said:

But if people pick up vamps they are not picking up wall eggs. As a result, it does nothing to reduce the wall itself. 

 

Most people aren't going to pick up wall eggs anyway. They'd rather save their slots for something interesting other than or after the wall. If people actually wanted to pick up wall eggs they wouldn't wall. That's the whole point of a wall--that people won't grab them. So vampires do help break the wall by getting someone else to grab an egg they wouldn't have grabbed beforehand, though it's a very small contribution.

[DragonLady86]

1 hour ago, Stormcaller said:

 

But if people pick up vamps they are not picking up wall eggs. As a result, it does nothing to reduce the wall 

Yes it does. By creating vampires you are turning undesirable eggs into desirable ones. And every little bit helps.

[RealWilliamShakespeare]

I don't see there any point in arguing why walls exist.

 

I'm still rather in favour of the suggestion of limiting the number of eggs per one breeder being displayed. Maybe each breeder could only take up one line of the AP at a time, or something. That way it wouldn't be too much, nor too few, and if they're actually APing more than one breed, there would be a chance for more than just one to show up?

[Uther_Pendragon]

One line of the AP per person/breeder is still a large percentage of space overall. I'm still in favor of 3 at most 4 visible per.

[_DeadPool_]

Any solution that involves limiting eggs shown by breeder, even if it's 3 or so eggs per breeder, means that those who breed only 1 or 2 eggs will lose out. And then if those who breed less are given priority, that means extra work on TJ to code that kind of decisionmaking process in, which is probably more work than it's worth, IMO.

Although, the limit per breeder is probably the best solution i've seen so far.

Edited January 13, 2020 by _DeadPool_

[Ruby Eyes]

Since there is nothing to GAIN by having your abandoned eggs picked up earlier than someone else's, nobody would "lose out."

 

Edited January 13, 2020 by Ruby Eyes

[Uther_Pendragon]

4 minutes ago, _DeadPool_ said:

Any solution that involves limiting eggs shown by breeder, even if it's 3 or so eggs per breeder, means that those who breed only 1 or 2 eggs will lose out. And then if those who breed less are given priority, that means extra work on TJ to code that kind of decisionmaking process in, which is probably more work than it's worth, IMO.

Although, the limit per breeder is probably the best solution i've seen so far.

So the way I'm understanding things, what you wrote would be a prob if it was visible by breed.

 If it's x visible per breeder, I could breed 500 and only x of mine would show at a time while if you bred 2, they would be shown, not get stuck behind my 500 eggs.

[_DeadPool_]

i just mean if the issue with walls is that no one wants to pick up the eggs, then they won't get picked up. and if they are the same general time as 1 or 2 eggs from other breeders, then the 1 or 2 eggs from the other breeders have a high likelihood of dying because they are still hidden behind the eggs of people that bred 3+ eggs. right?

[Ruby Eyes]

There would still a general sorting by time left before spliting up by breeder. Eggs below 4 days usually get picked up faster than those above 5 days.

And eggs below 3 days usually evoke some kind of "rescue mission" activity ...

[Fuzzbucket]

20 minutes ago, _DeadPool_ said:

Any solution that involves limiting eggs shown by breeder, even if it's 3 or so eggs per breeder, means that those who breed only 1 or 2 eggs will lose out. And then if those who breed less are given priority, that means extra work on TJ to code that kind of decisionmaking process in, which is probably more work than it's worth, IMO.

Although, the limit per breeder is probably the best solution i've seen so far.

 

14 minutes ago, Ruby Eyes said:

Since there is nothing to GAIN by having your abandoned eggs picked up earlier than someone else's, nobody would "lose out."

 

 

And they'd have a better chance of being seen and available for pickup if there were only 3 eggs showing from each mass breeder ahead of them.

[purplehaze]

4 hours ago, _DeadPool_ said:

i just mean if the issue with walls is that no one wants to pick up the eggs, then they won't get picked up. and if they are the same general time as 1 or 2 eggs from other breeders, then the 1 or 2 eggs from the other breeders have a high likelihood of dying because they are still hidden behind the eggs of people that bred 3+ eggs. right?

No, they are actually much less likely to get caught behind the wall. If all of a mass breeder's eggs are shown at the same time, then any eggs with even a slightly higher time left will be caught behind the wall and have to wait until all but the last few eggs from that breeder are picked up. But if each mass breeder only has 3 eggs showing then there will be all those other spots on the AP for your eggs to appear in. The only eggs that have a chance of dying are the ones from the mass breeder that have to wait in the queue until someone picks up other eggs from that mass breeder that are shown ahead of them.

 

And I firmly believe that no eggs are actually going to die on the AP even in this scenario. If those three eggs that are showing from the mass breeder get low enough in time they will be picked up. As Ruby Eyes pointed out, there is sort of a rescue mentality that kicks in when you see an extremely low-time egg on the AP -- whether it is actually an egg that you want or not, you will grab it to save it.

 

The only time that eggs die behind walls is during the holidays. And that is because the holiday eggs are artificially pushed ahead of regular eggs that have lower times. So when the wall goes on for more than 7 days, the eggs that were bred before the holiday breeding started will run out of time without ever getting a chance to be seen.

 

[Stormcaller]

It's 7:45 pm and we have a Black Tip wall going on.  I don't know when it started, but I hope it's over soon.

[Lyncerta]

34 minutes ago, Stormcaller said:

It's 7:45 pm and we have a Black Tip wall going on.  I don't know when it started, but I hope it's over soon.

 

There shouldn't be that many of them this time, according to breeder's post:

 

More on topic, I support display limit per breeder for the AP. It seems to be the best of the options as it will not restrain massbreeders and allow AP hunters to have variety of breeds and also lineages to choose from. Now as the walls are so frequent, I need to agree that individual players have a bit to much influence of what appear in AP and some kind of steps should be taken.

But I feel this may create some issues in case of holiday walls. Should this display limit apply to them too? Or maybe it's unnecesary.

Edited January 14, 2020 by Lyncerta

[meeps114]

55 minutes ago, Lyncerta said:

 

There shouldn't be that many of them this time, according to breeder's post:

 

More on topic, I support display limit per breeder for the AP. It seems to be the best of the options as it will not restrain massbreeders and allow AP hunters to have variety of breeds and also lineages to choose from. Now as the walls are so frequent, I need to agree that individual players have a bit to much influence of what appear in AP and some kind of steps should be taken.

But I feel this may create some issues in case of holiday walls. Should this display limit apply to them too? Or maybe it's unnecesary.

It doesn’t seem necessary to keep it for holiday walls. There’s only gonna be ~12 types of eggs anyways, so a wall doesn’t change very much. Also I haven’t found holiday walls to be very pervasive. Usually things move quickly and people probably have less holiday dragons to make walls with.

[Toyo]

1 hour ago, Stormcaller said:

It's 7:45 pm and we have a Black Tip wall going on.  I don't know when it started, but I hope it's over soon.

 

I was hanging about earlier and saw the salts start taking over the AP. According to my action log (abandoning a salt egg), that was around 6PM cave time. So it has already been 3 1/2 hours. 

 

 I would support limiting the number of eggs per breeder per breed in the AP, if that is possible. Like it was pointed out earlier, multi-breed contributors like Terrafreaky do not cause true "walls," but would be constrained by a simple egg limit. 

[Uther_Pendragon]

Two walls in one day again! The frequency is disrupting my groove. One positive about the last Salt wall: I got my raffle entry done in record time, lol.

 

For the holiday walls, don't they turn over quite fast so there's not eggs just sitting? Those are really the only long lasting walls I don't mind because there's so much variety within the lineages. Could the proposed changes mess holiday walls up at all?

 

Good point, Toyo. I keep forgetting that. (X eggs per breeder per breed)

[Stormcaller]

Midnight and the wall is breaking up but there is another breeder right behind it. This time the eggs are varied, but are pretty much very messy ones. 

 

This is why it might be best to limit both by breed and by breeder.

 

Edit:  I just pulled a cb out of the AP, so maybe this blockage isn't going to last long...

Edited January 14, 2020 by Stormcaller
Update

[Fuzzbucket]

NOT by breed. Only by breeder. By breed - you'd lose out when there is - for instance and by popular demand - a BSA wall.

[Lyncerta]

I think display limit per breeder is better as it will prevent blocking AP both with one breed and/or one type of lineage from the same player. With display limit per breed alone or combined with limit per breeder there will be a chance that more desirable eggs of certain breed from one player will be hidden behind massbred, less desirable eggs from another player, which is pretty similar issue to what we have now (walls of low variety, not very desirable eggs blocking everything with higher time), but limited to one breed only.

I don't think it's necessary to combine display limit per breeder with limit per breed, and the latter one alone seems to be less effective in case of lineage variety in AP (one player could still block AP with wall of various breeds and similar type of lineage).

This is of course only what I think may happen, at the end other solutions, like display limit per breed, may turn out to work better, who knows.

 

Basically:

I think current situation with walls blocking AP isn't ideal and some changes are needed

I'm against complicating the whole thing more than it's necessary, it seems to have bigger potential to spawn bugs - that's why I don't like idea of combining display limits per breeder and per breed

For me personally lack of variety of lineages in AP feels almost as bad as one breed wall - and I think limiting eggs displayed in AP by breed will not prevent this from happening as much as limit per breeder.

Intoducing some changes in, for example, how ratios work (I mean that the need of massbreeding would disapear), may significantly decrease the scale of problem with walls, but I still think introducing some kind of solution would be nice. At the end, people with lots of dragons will still have the potential to block the AP with their eggs.

Edited January 14, 2020 by Lyncerta

[StormBirdRising]

I still think the best solution is a 2nd AP. After the auto abandon is reprogrammed by breeder or by breed or by both, those eggs should drop to a 2nd AP. Players would be able to see 60 eggs between the two APs, instead of 30, with one click. Just like in the 6 biomes, moving from one biome to the other with just one click, players would be able to move from AP to AP with just one click.

[Haloclimb]

I still think the best solution is to fix the main reasons behind (seemingly) some/most of the walls (wonky ratios) instead of just slapping a bandaid on the problem and calling it done.

Besides, the solutions proposed have a good chance of not fixing walls anyway; change it so that you only see one line of eggs per breeder, and now instead of having to breed enough Celestials or Blacktips or Canopies or whatever to fill the whole AP, you just need to breed enough to fill one line of the AP. Convince a few friends to join in and also breed enough to just fill one line, and ta da, you now have a walled AP from 5 breeders instead of 1. And instead of needing to collect a thousand dragons to wall, you only need to collect a hundred or so.

 

Honestly, all I can see happening is instead of a wall of one or two breeders, we get walls of multiple breeds that people aren't super interested in; so a line of celestials, a line of blacktips, a line of nocturnes, etc. Then people come back and complain about the AP still being walled, because the reasons walls were being made in the first place are still there.

Personally, I'd try and get ratios fixed, and THEN see if walls are still a huge problem. If they aren't, great! If they are, then absolutely we come back and see how to fix it. (I really really like option 9 for adding incentives to raise eggs.You could even look at stuff like 'hatch 1000 AP eggs for a random prize dragon' or something- probably already discussed during the previous threads as well)

[DragonLady86]

8 hours ago, Haloclimb said:

 

Honestly, all I can see happening is instead of a wall of one or two breeders, we get walls of multiple breeds that people aren't super interested in; so a line of celestials, a line of blacktips, a line of nocturnes, etc. Then people come back and complain about the AP still being walled, because the reasons walls were being made in the first place are still there.

 

You are never guaranteed to get "nice things" in the ap. Even when walls only happened rarely, the ap was generally full of "less desirable breeds". This suggestion isn't trying to fix that. Only the effect of a small percentage of breeders being the majority of what is seen.

[Fuzzbucket]

10 hours ago, StormBirdRising said:

I still think the best solution is a 2nd AP. After the auto abandon is reprogrammed by breeder or by breed or by both, those eggs should drop to a 2nd AP. Players would be able to see 60 eggs between the two APs, instead of 30, with one click. Just like in the 6 biomes, moving from one biome to the other with just one click, players would be able to move from AP to AP with just one click.

 

Not going to happen. TJ said ages ago that it's not OK for people to see different APs. IIRC there was also a coding issue.

 

48 minutes ago, DragonLady86 said:

You are never guaranteed to get "nice things" in the ap. Even when walls only happened rarely, the ap was generally full of "less desirable breeds". This suggestion isn't trying to fix that. Only the effect of a small percentage of breeders being the majority of what is seen.

 

This is so very true.

[Uther_Pendragon]

No we weren't guaranteed to get 'nice things' in the ap, but was it meant to have only one thing for days at a time from one person?
I like variety! All different lineages, breeds and breeders, not just one choice for hours upon hours.

A second ap would be the same thing we have now, especially if someone breeds masses of the same egg. There's only 30 slots on the ap page. That would be two pages of frustration for me for hours to days.

The limit 3 per breeder *seen* would help keep variety, and more breeder's eggs represented. I believe one line of ap is far to much real estate per breeder. (Thanks for clarifying Lyncerta, I don't want anyone's eggs lost behind anything)

 I agree that the ratios are borked and need adjusting, but slapping a bandaid to help the immediate prob, while the larger issue is worked on, could help ppl stay interested in the game in the meantime. 
Incentives to raise ap stuff still feels like forcing me to raise dragons I don't want. I mean, I'd do it for a shiny, ha!, but prob release them all afterward.

I don't play when there's walls since the ap is my main hunting spot due to slow internet. (Instead, I come in here and throw my opinions around, lol.)

[Stormcaller]

4 hours ago, DragonLady86 said:

You are never guaranteed to get "nice things" in the ap. Even when walls only happened rarely, the ap was generally full of "less desirable breeds". This suggestion isn't trying to fix that. Only the effect of a small percentage of breeders being the majority of what is seen.

 

Sorry, but I have to disagree with you there.  What you consider a "nice thing" might be nothing at all like what I consider nice.  Really, any given breed is "more desirable" if you are avidly collecting them for scroll goals, breeding projects, trading, or any other particular reason.  Do you like Gold, Prizes, art, family names?  If so, you would think of them as nice.  Some people here even think long scraggly, messy eggs are nice. Or, you might be seeking just CB eggs; some folks think they're nice too. 

 

The goal we are seeking in the long run is to have variety in the AP so that the chance of finding something nice is available to everyone. It used to be that way. I think we will be more likely to get that variety again if steps are taken to eliminate the excessive breeding that causes walls.  OK, we all seem to agree that the ratios need adjusting and that excessive numbers of eggs appearing in the AP at any given time must be curtailed, but how is yet to be determined. 

 

But, these days the AP is fueled by massive breeding's done by single or multiple breeders at a time. This keeps the hatching times within reason and the game moving along, even if it is in a way that so many of us do not like. My question is, "Will we really have enough eggs sent to fill the AP to this level, with the variety we are seeking, and if not, what will we do about it?"