Abandoned Page Compendium - Display Suggestions

[Uther_Pendragon]

21 hours ago, Fuzzbucket said:

What she said. Mass breeders are playing their way and those of us who don't mass breed play our way. No-one has the right to force different play styles just because they want everyone to play THEIR way. Selective VIEWING is the way to go - as has been said many times in this thread. 6-10 from any one breeder (I'm on the 6 side, but others aren't !)

I still vote 3!!
..To 5 at the very most-which, as I've said a bunch, I feel is too much space for one breeder, out of 30 eggs on a page. (Lol, Fuzz, we'll argue that Til the end!)

 

I know the ratio issue is under discussion, but even if it does end up being a band-aid, I do hope some sort of viewing mech is implemented (soon!) since long, unvaried walls are becoming so frequent. 

[CCatspaw]

You know what, I like the walls. I could tell you how many hours I have sat at the PC trying to get 1 egg and it is snatched by someone else.  With the walls I can atleast get 2 eggs without any trouble.  You might not like walls, but for those of us that have trouble obtaining dragons this is ideal for us.  It has been over 2 months plus now and I still cant get the 2 eggs I need because they are dropped far and few in between and everytime 1 shows up it is so flustrating clicking on the egg and getting the msg that it is not there.  Personally I would love to see the market flooded with those eggs in that are in much demand.  

 

!.  Do Nothing

 

Edited February 23, 2020 by CCatspaw
forgot the vote

[Firefury Amahira]

On 2/20/2020 at 1:17 AM, Gathouria said:

I would be interested to know if TJ has spoken with mass breeders directly for their reasons on walling and their logic for it, and what ideas they may themselves have. If they're planning enough to create such large walls, they've probably put some time into thinking of how the experience could be better for themselves and others. (Though I admit that I'm not sure if any mass breeders have spoken on this thread, as I only know the names of a few)

Blacktip massbreeder here! I've chimed in on some of the predecessors to this thread, and I'd be happy to answer any questions folks have about the why, how, and so on. TJ hasn't spoken with me in particular, but I can only assume he's seen some of my posts in the other threads about the problem. I even volunteered to use my blacktip army as a guinea pig for testing the "limit # of eggs shown of a given species per breeder" idea, given that seems to be the solution short of fixing the ratios that everybody can mostly agree on.

 

A tl;dr version of "why" is pretty much "trying to forcibly bring the blacktip population in line with what the ratios are trying (and failing on account of breed demand versus rarity level) to do, so that it's easier for people to get something other than blacktip eggs from blacktip x whatever pairings." I suspect a great many other massbreeders have similar motivation with their breeds of choice, especially newer commons that take forever to try and use in lineage projects due to the ratios making it almost impossible to get something other than that breed from any pairings. I keep a boatload of massbreeding stats as well, which have indicated that my efforts are gradually doing what I'm intending. This year I'm hoping to do more regular "mini" massbreeds of just my CB blacktips to generate more eggs, but in the form of shorter and less obnoxious walls and see if that has a more pronounced impact compared to previously just doing a few mini-massbreeds and a handful of full-army mega-massbreeds. I'm sure if I bred my entire near-1500 blacktip army every month (or every week to something other than celestials 😲) I'd hammer the ratios much more effectively... but that is an enormous time sink. A full-army "mega" massbreed (including corporealizing some 900+ celestials) takes me a good 8-10 hours to complete, and that is not an effort I can commit to more than a few times a year! A "mini" massbreed of roughly 200-250 pairings I can knock out in maybe 2 hours in comparison.

 

So far, it really does seem like the only solution that doesn't step on anybody's play style besides fixing the ratios/rarity system is to limit how many eggs of a particular breed from a particular breeder show up in the AP at once. It doesn't limit breeders from breeding whatever the heck they want, it prevents (or at least makes it much more challenging) for the AP to get hit by a massive single-breed wall... the only things people can't quite settle on is "what would that do to AP times?" and "how many spots in the AP does a massbreeder get?" and "won't massbreeder's eggs suffer mass die-offs trapped behind that display limit?" The answer to the first we don't know; the answer to the second and third is why I volunteered to be a guinea pig so we could find out. Sadly, no word from on high at this time if such a test run is feasible.

[Gathouria]

19 hours ago, Firefury Amahira said:

A tl;dr version of "why" is pretty much "trying to forcibly bring the blacktip population in line with what the ratios are trying (and failing on account of breed demand versus rarity level) to do, so that it's easier for people to get something other than blacktip eggs from blacktip x whatever pairings." I suspect a great many other massbreeders have similar motivation with their breeds of choice, especially newer commons that take forever to try and use in lineage projects due to the ratios making it almost impossible to get something other than that breed from any pairings. I keep a boatload of massbreeding stats as well, which have indicated that my efforts are gradually doing what I'm intending.

Even with the ratio talk I hadn't really considered that 😳

Thank you for taking the time to explain to me! (I'm really impressed with your spreadsheet! That's a lot of effort going into it that I didn't think of, and I hope TJ takes you and/or other breeders up on your offer). That explanation has inspired me to read a lot more on this debate now.

[StormBirdRising]

So..... is this the end of the discussion regarding fixing the AP so there is a decent assortment of eggs in there and we can hunt in there again? It is so disheartening to have a limited amount of cave time and to be greeted by a wall of absolute crap when I go to the AP. I don't care who makes the walls or why the walls are made. I just want to know if there will be a remedy to the walls of crap or do I just have to suck it up because nothing will be done?

[Stormcaller]

7 minutes ago, StormBirdRising said:

... It is so disheartening to have a limited amount of cave time and to be greeted by a wall of absolute crap when I go to the AP. I don't care who makes the walls or why the walls are made. I just want to know if there will be a remedy to the walls of crap or do I just have to suck it up because nothing will be done?

 

I couldn't have said it better myself!   Now that another holiday is over it's right back to a massive wall.  Please do something to fix it, TJ.

[HeatherMarie]

5 hours ago, StormBirdRising said:

So..... is this the end of the discussion regarding fixing the AP so there is a decent assortment of eggs in there and we can hunt in there again? It is so disheartening to have a limited amount of cave time and to be greeted by a wall of absolute crap when I go to the AP. I don't care who makes the walls or why the walls are made. I just want to know if there will be a remedy to the walls of crap or do I just have to suck it up because nothing will be done?

 

I understand the frustration (I'm getting a little sick of the blacktip walls too), I don't think it's the 'end' of the discussion in a way that nothing will be done, but I do think we've all talked through some ideas and expressed what we feel would be the best solution(s), it's really up to TJ to decide if he actually wants to implement any of these ideas.

Also, again I understand the frustration, but saying the AP is 'absolute crap' is exactly the kind of drama that gets tossed around a lot in threads about the AP and walls. It's not helpful to call the AP walls crap, it comes off as antagonizing and kind of dismissive of others. The AP walls are 'absolute crap' to you, I get that, but that's not a user-wide consensus. Many of us actually like the walls, especially ones that include our personal favorite lineages or breeds.

[random_dragon_collector]

Once again, one player takes over the entire AP for a couple of days.  How is that a functioning game designed for people around the world to enjoy?  Could be they are more noticeable when we've just had a couple of weeks of nothing but holiday eggs.

[Indigo_Dragon]

On 11/12/2019 at 10:49 PM, LadyLyzar said:

 

1. Do nothing. 
2. Limit breeding per scroll. 
3. Limit the number of eggs one breeder has displayed. 
4. Limit the amount of eggs of one breed being displayed. 
5. A way to filter what you see in the AP.
6. Paginate the AP
7. Split the AP into biomes
8. Add extra egg slots for bred or AP'ed eggs
9. Incentives for raising AP eggs (raffles, etc)

 

 

I personally like 5 and 7 myself.

It would make it easier to find the CB eggs for those who are looking for them. And if there are a lot of abandoned bred eggs, that are still making a mess of the bred "biome" then filtering should help.

I am not sure about the paginate since I've heard some others talk of using that to "make it easier to find rares hiding behind the backlog." 

 

For those who would worry about the filter option doing exactly that as well, I would counter and say nobody says the filter must be only breed sort. The way I imagine it, it could filter more by type of dragon - western, pygmy, drake, eastern, sea serpent, etc. 

 

So the CBs are in the biomes they came from. And the bred eggs are filtered by the body type they have. 

 

This way it's not something that can be 'abused to find rares ahead of everybody else" and still offer its own little challenge to find what you want among the body types there. But it makes it easier to circumvent the backlog of some mass breeders blocking the AP page with only their bred eggs and nobody else. Therefore making the eggs behind the backlog dwindle in days left until it actually gets a bit worrisome. 

 

In any case, those are simply my suggestions. Whatever TJ09 ends up doing, that's fair. 

Edited February 27, 2020 by Indigo_Dragon

[Fuzzbucket]

We will never get to filter. For a level playing field, TJ has said all along (and I feel sure this is one where he won't change his mind) that we all have to see the same thing. And let's face it - almost everyone would just filter out all the commons.

 

Biomes don't really apply to bred eggs, so please no to that - it would be a total pain hunting the AP.

 

I stand firmly behind 3. Limit the number of eggs one breeder has displayed. 

 

Failing that I'm behind 1. Do nothing.

Edited February 27, 2020 by Fuzzbucket

[meeps114]

I think another bullet needs to be added to the list of options, which is address the reason why massbreeders feel the need to create walls, aka fix the ratios so they're a bit more reasonable. I don't think that would be harder for TJ seeing as the code is already there, it just needs tweaked

[OMGitsKairi]

On 11/12/2019 at 10:49 PM, LadyLyzar said:

1. Do nothing. 
2. Limit breeding per scroll. 
3. Limit the number of eggs one breeder has displayed. 
4. Limit the amount of eggs of one breed being displayed. 
5. A way to filter what you see in the AP.
6. Paginate the AP
7. Split the AP into biomes
8. Add extra egg slots for bred or AP'ed eggs
9. Incentives for raising AP eggs (raffles, etc)

 

Option 1 is no longer viable. The majority of the populace being unable to use a core function of the site for days on end is completely unreasonable.

 

The best option in my opinion is a combination of options 3 and 4. It would be neat if there was a limit to the number of eggs per breed by one breeder

displayed. For example, if LadyLyzar bred 50 Red eggs, and 50 Pink eggs, and 50 Blacktip eggs, the ideal for me would be to see X number of her Red

eggs in the mix, and/or Y number of her Pink eggs, and so on, rather than just Z number of all of her bred eggs. If that makes sense??

 

Failing that, my second choice would have to be option 2. I know it's been largely unpopular among the player base, but in my opinion it is still a vast

improvement over the current situation.

[TheScorpionKing]

19 hours ago, HeatherMarie said:

 

I understand the frustration (I'm getting a little sick of the blacktip walls too), I don't think it's the 'end' of the discussion in a way that nothing will be done, but I do think we've all talked through some ideas and expressed what we feel would be the best solution(s), it's really up to TJ to decide if he actually wants to implement any of these ideas.

Also, again I understand the frustration, but saying the AP is 'absolute crap' is exactly the kind of drama that gets tossed around a lot in threads about the AP and walls. It's not helpful to call the AP walls crap, it comes off as antagonizing and kind of dismissive of others. The AP walls are 'absolute crap' to you, I get that, but that's not a user-wide consensus. Many of us actually like the walls, especially ones that include our personal favorite lineages or breeds.

 

You know, now that you mention it,

those mass bred eggs really are "crap".

They are not even worth biting.

 

Hence, Option #10:

A giant porcelain toilet bowl icon on the bottom of the AP

and a little handle icon on one of the top corners.

One flush and we can send those eggs

where they belong. 

[random_dragon_collector]

1 hour ago, OMGitsKairi said:

 

Option 1 is no longer viable. The majority of the populace being unable to use a core function of the site for days on end is completely unreasonable.

 

 

 

yep--very unprofessional and not user friendly at all.  do something, TJ--please.

[Duskwing472]

I really like Option 8 👀

[schenanigans]

5 hours ago, OMGitsKairi said:

 

Option 1 is no longer viable. The majority of the populace being unable to use a core function of the site for days on end is completely unreasonable.

 

...

 

Failing that, my second choice would have to be option 2. I know it's been largely unpopular among the player base, but in my opinion it is still a vast

improvement over the current situation.

 

So you get upset, because a mass breeder takes an option of gameplay away from you. So you want to take an option of game play away from other people, that's even more of a core function than the AP?? 

 

There are mass breeds that happen that are not breed specific and provide multiple benefits. The rainbow wall mass breed; BSA mass breeds; RATIO mass breeds, specifically the new release dragons recently. All of these have happened this year already and we're two months in. Not to mention, we've had ER AP for almost a day now. I have been able to gather so many purples and reds already that I'm in desperate need of. 

 

The blacktip breeder has kept stats of her breedings and the blacktip percentages. For over a year. There is physical proof that she has improved the blacktip ratios. 

 

I'm sorry, but I'm not in support of changing the current function from limiting one person's capability to play this game to limiting another person's capability to play this game. I understand that this situation isn't ideal for a lot of people, but it's been this way forever. "Getting back" at the mass breeders is only going to cause more negative effects. 

 

Honestly, options 3 or 4 seem to be the best for all parties involved. Options 5, 6, and 7 are just going to cause other eggs to sit far too long and then they will still eventually cause a blockage. Which will cause people to whine even more. Some people already provide option 9, though it would be awesome if it was a bit more of a widespread thing. 

Edited February 28, 2020 by schenanigans

[Auriene]

I am probably repeating myself, but I am going to repeat it ad nauseam:

 

10. Fix the ratios.

 

Any other solution would be little more than slap a Band-Aid on a much deeper problem.

 

I understand that people have various reasons for mass breeding, but honestly... 'One person's freedom ends where another person's freedom begins.' It surely takes a lot of effort to mass breed a wall that lasts for days, it takes a lot of work to keep records and to make a desirable impact on ratios (or rather, to force other players to make that impact by raising wall eggs). I can respect that, but... I'll be frank: seeing those regular walls of Blacktips and Celestials and sometimes also Nocturnes - often messy ones - makes me not want to build any lineages with them. Even with ratios fixed. Walls made me simply dislike those breeds, and I am not even as active in AP as many other players.

 

[StormBirdRising]

There have been so many great suggestions in this thread regarding reprogramming the current AP so that all players have a chance to benefit from it. I hope that there will be at least 2 APs or that the AP will be in pages or that the eggs will be stacked or that there will be some kind of a limit or some kind of a filter, or anything so that we don't have to wait for days for a massive wall of crap to finally get out of our way and we can just play the game.

[Tawanda001]

2 hours ago, schenanigans said:

 

So you get upset, because a mass breeder takes an option of gameplay away from you. So you want to take an option of game play away from other people,

 

I'm sorry, but I'm not in support of changing the current function from limiting one person's capability to play this game to limiting another person's capability to play this game. I understand that this situation isn't ideal for a lot of people, but it's been this way forever. "Getting back" at the mass breeders is only going to cause more negative effects. 

 

It's mot about 'getting back'. It's about  one set of players being able to force actions on another set of players. Just because it's been that way forever doesn't make it acceptable or fair.Things change, old cb holidays, old pinks (aria), prize dragon raffle every month, these were done to make things 'more fair' for the player base. Did that make some people unhappy, sure it did, but sometime compromise and change are what's needed.. 

Edited February 28, 2020 by Tawanda001

[Fuzzbucket]

11 hours ago, OMGitsKairi said:

 

Option 1 is no longer viable. The majority of the populace being unable to use a core function of the site for days on end is completely unreasonable.

 

Failing that, my second choice would have to be option 2. I know it's been largely unpopular among the player base, but in my opinion it is still a vast

improvement over the current situation.

 

5 hours ago, schenanigans said:

 

So you get upset, because a mass breeder takes an option of gameplay away from you. So you want to take an option of game play away from other people, that's even more of a core function than the AP?? 

 

There are mass breeds that happen that are not breed specific and provide multiple benefits. The rainbow wall mass breed; BSA mass breeds; RATIO mass breeds, specifically the new release dragons recently. All of these have happened this year already and we're two months in. Not to mention, we've had ER AP for almost a day now. I have been able to gather so many purples and reds already that I'm in desperate need of. 

 

The blacktip breeder has kept stats of her breedings and the blacktip percentages. For over a year. There is physical proof that she has improved the blacktip ratios. 

 

This - bolded bit in particular. It's not OK to stop people playing their way, especially when it is designed to improve something which will actually help everyone.Not to mention the designed co-operative massbreeds.

 

Until something is done about ratios, the best option remains 3. Limit the number of eggs one breeder has displayed. 

 

And I am still OK with do nothing. Even though it means I sometimes avoid the AP.

[OMGitsKairi]

5 hours ago, Auriene said:

I am probably repeating myself, but I am going to repeat it ad nauseam:

 

10. Fix the ratios.

 

Any other solution would be little more than slap a Band-Aid on a much deeper problem.

 

I understand that people have various reasons for mass breeding, but honestly... 'One person's freedom ends where another person's freedom begins.' It surely takes a lot of effort to mass breed a wall that lasts for days, it takes a lot of work to keep records and to make a desirable impact on ratios (or rather, to force other players to make that impact by raising wall eggs). I can respect that, but... I'll be frank: seeing those regular walls of Blacktips and Celestials and sometimes also Nocturnes - often messy ones - makes me not want to build any lineages with them. Even with ratios fixed. Walls made me simply dislike those breeds, and I am not even as active in AP as many other players.

 

 

The bolded part is my reasoning for supporting a limit as a secondary option. In no way is it my first choice for a solution. The walls may be bred with the intent of "fixing" the ratios, but the breeder is not the one who then has to raise all of those eggs. The onus falls onto other players who a) may actually want the eggs, or b) don't actually want the eggs, but they know that if someone doesn't pick up those eggs, no one will be able to pick up any other eggs.

 

People don't want to affect the breeder's play in this scenario, but why is it okay for the breeder to force their play style on however many thousands of other players? 

 

Fixing the ratios is important, but tying other players' hands to make what are subjectively "favourable" changes to said ratios is not the way to do it. 

[tjekan]

7 hours ago, schenanigans said:

 

The blacktip breeder has kept stats of her breedings and the blacktip percentages. For over a year. There is physical proof that she has improved the blacktip ratios. 
 

 

The biggest problem with this is that most players do not care about blacktip percentages, nor should they have to. It is not fair for one user to force thousands of others into raising unwanted eggs just to "improve" her pet project, or else be unable to use one of the main parts of the game.

 

I would personally like to see ratios improved--I dislike being unable to breed common checkers for no good reason--however, I still do not think the small improvement in ratios for 3-4 breeds has been worth the disabling of the AP for 1/3 of the time. TJ should fix ratio issues on his end. Ruining the AP hasn't come anywhere close to solving the problem--even blacktips are still difficult to work with, and there are like 70 other breeds for whom the needle hasn't moved at all.

 

The blacktip breeder should be able to keep plugging away at blacktips if that's what she wants to do, but it's a bad assumption that what she is doing is 1) an important improvement in the eyes of the userbase at large, or 2) worth the massive inconvenience the blocked AP is causing other people. There's also no reason to think that making the AP flow again would stop her from doing what she's doing--she could still breed 8000 blacktips if she wants, they would just not hijack the play of anyone else. Win-win.

Fix the ratios on TJ's side and it would be win-win-WIN.

[Stormcaller]

 

The bottom line on this thread, the thing we all keep getting back to, is that whatever our choice is, we still depend on TJ to intervene and fix the situation.  We can argue among ourselves forever but until he acts, nothing will change.

 

I suggest we stop the debate, because it's shown itself to be fruitless. and just keep urging TJ to fix the problem in whatever way he sees fit. It has got to be better than what we have now.

[Kila]

Earlier in this topic someone mentioned that they could only hunt CB eggs through the AP because their internet connection is terrible. Why is it okay for a mass breeder to take away their only means of playing the game? "Breeder's rights" is a lousy excuse when it's impacting other people's means of play. Whether or not you agree with their reasoning or not they're taking the AP hostage and forcing people to either A. Wait for the wall the end or B. Raise all of the eggs that *they* bred.

 

The ratios are broken and outdated. How the AP functions is broken and outdated. I was away from the site for some *eight years* and these were both issues when I left! For there to have been no change in that amount of time is *flooring* to me. It's absolutely bonkers, imo.

 

That's why this conversation is happening, not because "people are mad that one way of play has been taken away" but because the system has been outgrown by the playerbase, and it's not no longer viable to sit back and do nothing.

 

If TJ doesn't want to fix the ratios or allow people to filter the AP (again, excluding rares), then the only options are to either limit the amount a person can breed or limit how many eggs per breeder are shown on the AP.

 

I do like the idea of splitting the AP into biomes, though! Lore wise it would make sense that you'd put an egg back in the environment where you found it.

[random_dragon_collector]

One person shouldn't be able to flood the AP for days.  TJ--please fix that.