Abandoned Page Compendium - Display Suggestions

[Fuzzbucket]

I think you are missing the point a bit. Rephrase: 

 

Quote

You are never guaranteed to get "nice things" in the ap

 

Better perhaps to say 

Quote

You are never guaranteed to get "something you actually want" in the ap

 

As you say, your nice may be my awful; the fact remains that there will never be a time when everything in the AP is something someone desperately wants.  AS to the walls - yes they can be a pain. On the other hand I have a dozen or so new lineages as a direct result of picking up from them. Lines with breeds I didn't particularly like but which I now want to breed. I think - hit me if you like - that it works pretty well as is. Though I would be OK with a limit shown per breeder.

[Stormcaller]

6 minutes ago, Fuzzbucket said:

As you say, your nice may be my awful; the fact remains that there will never be a time when everything in the AP is something someone desperately wants...

 

Right, not everything...  But with variety there is possibility of something.  The hunt itself becomes a positive activity.

 

12 minutes ago, Fuzzbucket said:

 On the other hand I have a dozen or so new lineages as a direct result of picking up from them. Lines with breeds I didn't particularly like but which I now want to breed.

 

IMHO, that sounds a bit like recycling. Some people make lovely things out of old soda bottles that would otherwise be carted away.

[Fuzzbucket]

And isn't that the PERFECT use for the AP ?  

 

I didn't like Nocturnes. This is just one of the lines I shall be extending.

https://dragcave.net/lineage/haczf

 

Another:

https://dragcave.net/lineage/zGmaf

[Stormcaller]

That's a nice use for them. Do you extend them to a certain point, like a sampler, or breed toward a higher generation? 

 

Dragon Cave is surely a wonderful game!   I'm sure it will even get better once TJ fixes it up too.

[Fuzzbucket]

5th gen unless I am inspired.

[meeps114]

Fixing the ratios probably requires the least amount of work from TJ. I hope he’s open to at least trying that. Although I feel like another issue is that the AP wait time goes up to not being incubatchable without walls. I don’t know about others, but that significantly decreases my interest in the AP. Maybe breeding events will have to take place to get the AP time lower? 

[Fuzzbucket]

Breeding events make - walls.....

[Uther_Pendragon]

So, after the last celestial wall, the times were back up to 5+ days after 2 days, so does it really help keep the times down for more than just a small window? To me, it's not worth the loss of use of the ap if I'm having to wait days to have a variety of breeds to catch. Can mass bred eggs be a variety of things instead of a single breed?

 

[DragonLady86]

5 hours ago, Stormcaller said:

 

Sorry, but I have to disagree with you there.  What you consider a "nice thing" might be nothing at all like what I consider nice.  Really, any given breed is "more desirable" if you are avidly collecting them for scroll goals, breeding projects, trading, or any other particular reason.  Do you like Gold, Prizes, art, family names?  If so, you would think of them as nice.  Some people here even think long scraggly, messy eggs are nice. Or, you might be seeking just CB eggs; some folks think they're nice too. 

 

The goal we are seeking in the long run is to have variety in the AP so that the chance of finding something nice is available to everyone. It used to be that way. I think we will be more likely to get that variety again if steps are taken to eliminate the excessive breeding that causes walls.  OK, we all seem to agree that the ratios need adjusting and that excessive numbers of eggs appearing in the AP at any given time must be curtailed, but how is yet to be determined. 

 

But, these days the AP is fueled by massive breeding's done by single or multiple breeders at a time. This keeps the hatching times within reason and the game moving along, even if it is in a way that so many of us do not like. My question is, "Will we really have enough eggs sent to fill the AP to this level, with the variety we are seeking, and if not, what will we do about it?"

First, fuzzbucket already did an excellent job of elaborating what I meant. However, the post I was replying to was saying that limits per breeder will still leave "only undesirable breeds" because we would apparently just see multiple walls at the same time. 

 

I'm well aware people like different things  given my own eclectic hunting style. 

[Stormcaller]

4 hours ago, meeps114 said:

Fixing the ratios probably requires the least amount of work from TJ. I hope he’s open to at least trying that. Although I feel like another issue is that the AP wait time goes up to not being incubatchable without walls. I don’t know about others, but that significantly decreases my interest in the AP...

 

Really?  I was thinking it might be the most work and that that was why TJ was putting it off.  IMHO, it's probably the best long term solution.

 

I don't like long hatching times either, but there might be other answers for that. For example, I think we might have lost players due to the walls. If so, perhaps there might be a resurgence in AP use if the walls stop. Maybe old players would return and/or new players stay longer.

[HeatherMarie]

8 hours ago, Uther_Pendragon said:

So, after the last celestial wall, the times were back up to 5+ days after 2 days, so does it really help keep the times down for more than just a small window? To me, it's not worth the loss of use of the ap if I'm having to wait days to have a variety of breeds to catch. Can mass bred eggs be a variety of things instead of a single breed?

 

 

I could be completely wrong here, but the vibe I've gotten (through both the forum and other DC-chat-spots) is that when a major wall happens for an extended period, it kind of makes a lot of people less interested in breeding to the AP for the duration of that wall. Like, the mentality that the wall is long and frustrating for many people and they don't want to accidentally add to any AP-related issues by breeding their own stuff to it. If that's true, it may explain why times seem to go up rather fast after a wall breaks, because there was that amount of time where not as many people were sending eggs. 

 

While I agree that ratios could/should be fixed/changed, and I do think ratios are at least partially responsible for multiple different frustrations in the game, I pretty much lost hope of anything actually changing a long time ago. Ratio brokenness is not new, people have been talking about it for *years*, with no changes made (at least, no changes announced). Limiting AP display per breeder may seem like a bandaid that doesn't address the real problem, but I think it's probably more *likely* that we'd get an AP-display change than an actual ratios overhaul. 

[meeps114]

11 hours ago, Fuzzbucket said:

Breeding events make - walls.....

I didn’t mean walls of one type of breed, just events to encourage breeding and releasing more eggs than normal to drive down the egg times. There would still be variety

[Lyncerta]

6 hours ago, HeatherMarie said:

I could be completely wrong here, but the vibe I've gotten (through both the forum and other DC-chat-spots) is that when a major wall happens for an extended period, it kind of makes a lot of people less interested in breeding to the AP for the duration of that wall. Like, the mentality that the wall is long and frustrating for many people and they don't want to accidentally add to any AP-related issues by breeding their own stuff to it. If that's true, it may explain why times seem to go up rather fast after a wall breaks, because there was that amount of time where not as many people were sending eggs. 

That's quite interesting. I can relate to "not wanting to add to the AP wall", but it's not the wall going in the AP make me feel like that. There's usually around 2 days delay between what is in AP now and when eggs bred at the moment finally appear there. But there's always a chance someone decide to massbreed around the time I decide to do that, what may end up not very well.

 

Personally, the whole discussion about walls and how they prevent people from enjoying game made me breed less stuff to AP. That's because my main goals in breeding to AP were to lower the time of eggs there and also share the lines I find nice with other people. But with players completely fed up with AP blocked by one player, and since I don't use it often enough to actually benefit from lower times, there's no point.

Edited January 16, 2020 by Lyncerta

[Uther_Pendragon]

Ohhh Heather Marie, that makes sense! 
 

Lyncerta, if you bred 1000 eggs of all different breeds to the AP, I wouldn't complain at all. ( I prob wouldn't even realize, unless I clicked thru to see origin, or if they all had the same surname, lol.) I am personally most affected by only one breed taking over for more than a couple of hours.

 

[meeps114]

50 minutes ago, Uther_Pendragon said:

Ohhh Heather Marie, that makes sense! 
 

Lyncerta, if you bred 1000 eggs of all different breeds to the AP, I wouldn't complain at all. ( I prob wouldn't even realize, unless I clicked thru to see origin, or if they all had the same surname, lol.) I am personally most affected by only one breed taking over for more than a couple of hours.

 

Same, I don’t care if someone breeds eggs to the AP unless they’re all the same breed

[Shadowdrake]

13 hours ago, HeatherMarie said:

Like, the mentality that the wall is long and frustrating for many people and they don't want to accidentally add to any AP-related issues by breeding their own stuff to it. If that's true, it may explain why times seem to go up rather fast after a wall breaks,

I doubt it, since that doesn't make sense timewise. If there were less eggs after a wall it was either coincidental or due a warning by the waller when they were first bred, since people wouldn't have known a wall was on the way when they bred (or didn't breed) unless the AP happened to be at ridiculously high times or you're talking about some duration two days after a wall breaks.

 

More likely people's slots open during the duration of a wall and they choose not to fill them, so once an extended wall breaks there's a lot of players with open slots celebrating the end of the wall by taking everything else from the AP, increasing its time quickly.

Edited January 16, 2020 by Shadowdrake

[OMGitsKairi]

On 1/16/2020 at 10:47 AM, Uther_Pendragon said:

Lyncerta, if you bred 1000 eggs of all different breeds to the AP, I wouldn't complain at all. ( I prob wouldn't even realize, unless I clicked thru to see origin, or if they all had the same surname, lol.) I am personally most affected by only one breed taking over for more than a couple of hours.

 

This is how I feel as well. An assortment of different eggs that I don't want is actually preferable for me to 1000 eggs of the same breed that I don't want. 

 

When there's a variety of different breeds in the AP, even if it's not something I would ordinarily pick up, I'll often grab eggs just to look at their codes or lineages. That's how one of my current ongoing projects actually started; by accident!

[Fuzzbucket]

Mt too - though I have also started three recently from eggs pulled from walls....

[cyradis4]

One of the key reasons people do create walls is because the AP time goes up. The time going up is caused by people not breeding. So one effective way to keep AP time down is for as many people as you can to breed 10 eggs to the AP every day. Or 20. But with no one breeding eggs... the AP will drift up in time. 

 

But for me, I still believe that walls are almost all symptom and the way to fix it is to fix the ratios themselves. Fix that, and people will breed a lot more, and there will be variety. Of course, tehn people will complain about not finding CBs in the AP, but you can never please everyone. Some people want everything handed to them on a gold plated platter (aka low time). 

 

Cheers!
C4. 

[olympe]

Amen to that. I always have some ideas for breeding projects when a new breed comes out. However, it's not worth it because it'll take years for the ratios to even out. I once started a (male) Moonstone x Almerald. I gave up after reaching 3rd gen because Moonstones were just too hard to get from that pairing. Haven't bred them in ages because of the frustration. And it's pretty much the same with all other new breeds. "Oh, I'd love to breed Aqualis x Sunsong. But it'll be literally years until I'll get eggs of both breeds. Let's wait two years or so." Two years later: "Oh, there's that new common breed I'd love to breed to [insert old common breed]. But..." And all about my old ideas will be long forgotten and not get bred in the first place.

Edited January 30, 2020 by olympe

[Stormcaller]

 

22 hours ago, cyradis4 said:

But for me, I still believe that walls are almost all symptom and the way to fix it is to fix the ratios themselves. Fix that, and people will breed a lot more, and there will be variety. Of course, tehn people will complain about not finding CBs in the AP, but you can never please everyone.

 

 TJ really does need to work on  this ratio situation. Anything else might be temporary or just somewhat helpful at best.  And, while he's at it, he could arrange to randomly sprinkle a few CBs in the AP from time to time too. 

[Gathouria]

Since I was having this discussion earlier today, I wonder if something similar has been suggested.

 

Limiting breeding per scroll has been discussed, but what about offering a substantially high limit? Say, 15 successful breeding attempts per day per dragon species, or perhaps higher. That is, of course, far more than any one person could keep on their scroll, and allows someone to breed up to 15 new eggs of a species (on non-holidays). This would allow a scroll, if determined, to breed up to 15 x the number of dragon species available, but would force them to diversify what they're trying to flood the AP with, creating substantially smaller single-species walls.

 

On 1/29/2020 at 9:47 AM, cyradis4 said:

But for me, I still believe that walls are almost all symptom and the way to fix it is to fix the ratios themselves. Fix that, and people will breed a lot more, and there will be variety.

 

I would be interested to know if TJ has spoken with mass breeders directly for their reasons on walling and their logic for it, and what ideas they may themselves have. If they're planning enough to create such large walls, they've probably put some time into thinking of how the experience could be better for themselves and others. (Though I admit that I'm not sure if any mass breeders have spoken on this thread, as I only know the names of a few)

[DragonLady86]

6 hours ago, Gathouria said:

Since I was having this discussion earlier today, I wonder if something similar has been suggested.

 

Limiting breeding per scroll has been discussed, but what about offering a substantially high limit? Say, 15 successful breeding attempts per day per dragon species, or perhaps higher. That is, of course, far more than any one person could keep on their scroll, and allows someone to breed up to 15 new eggs of a species (on non-holidays). This would allow a scroll, if determined, to breed up to 15 x the number of dragon species available, but would force them to diversify what they're trying to flood the AP with, creating substantially smaller single-species 

I'm not a mass breeder and I'm going to still say hard no. No one is talking about limiting how many a person can breed, just how many they can have displayed in the ap.  Sometimes you need lots of attempts to get what you want. Also, what would happen for holidays? I have several dozen Black Marrows and that's a small collection for some. A guaranteed amount of successes for each breed could also truly mess with ratios. How do determine success when breeding two different  species: any egg is success for both or breed  of offspring? 

 

As for TJ asking mass breeders why they do, many have posted in this thread both reasons and discussed solutions.

Edited February 20, 2020 by DragonLady86

[Fuzzbucket]

What she said. Mass breeders are playing their way and those of us who don't mass breed play our way. No-one has the right to force different play styles just because they want everyone to play THEIR way. Selective VIEWING is the way to go - as has been said many times in this thread. 6-10 from any one breeder (I'm on the 6 side, but others aren't !)

[HeatherMarie]

21 minutes ago, Fuzzbucket said:

What she said. Mass breeders are playing their way and those of us who don't mass breed play our way. No-one has the right to force different play styles just because they want everyone to play THEIR way. Selective VIEWING is the way to go - as has been said many times in this thread. 6-10 from any one breeder (I'm on the 6 side, but others aren't !)

 

Exactly this. Limiting breeders that way just because *some* people hate walls is just as bad as the issue of walls limiting hunters playstyles. It's just shifting the frustration/hate/upset from one subset of users to another. How on earth is that a fair solution? (And besides, 15 is *way* too low and pretty much any number that anti-wallers would agree on would be too low. 15 isn't even high enough to do a good lineage-breeding spree, many people do mass-breedings of *rare* and wanted dragons, why should they be limited that way? I have well over 1,000 Aqualises, 15 successful breeds is *nothing*.)