Market Feedback

[osmarks]

Please no market-exclusive dragons. It's meant as a supplement to normal play, not a required thing.

[animatedrose]

While I find the idea of a Market-only breed interesting, the idea that it mostly rewards forum users makes me leery (how would you do that anyway? add shards to the forum?). Way too many people preach about the site and the forum being separate entities. Why would you implement a derg specifically catering to those on the forums (somehow) because their activity here will get them the dragon long before players that aren't here or avoid this place like the plague? And make it only purchasable in the Market? That kinda seems counterproductive unless you're a hardcore forum user.

 

Then we'd have the prize derg issue again, but with a different derg. Which derails the level playing field that the Market was originally made on. And non-forum users are left in the dust, subject to price change once all the purchasing happens and shoot the price up.

 

I don't really get why people want to reward certain kinds of players. The most active, the oldest, the ones with the most dergs on their scrolls, or other such tiers of playing. Chances are, they probably have almost everything in the Market anyway, or I see enough saying that have no use of shards because "they have everything". Why give them a boost that they likely won't even use unless they're army-building, since you can only AP Market eggs and not trade them? Seems kind of like a waste to me. Some users would kill for that kind of boost but you keep locking them out because "oh, you're not active/old/prolific enough in the game, sorry" with suggestions like this.

 

The Market wasn't made for the elite players. It was made for EVERYONE equally.

Edited September 17, 2018 by animatedrose
might've misconstrued things, too early to be typing for me, sorry

[purplehaze]

I have difficulty with Natayah's walls of text -- sorry @Natayah -- but I don't see anything there that really favors forum members over non-forum users.

 

My objection to a Market-only dragon is what others have raised -- a repeat of the Prize introduction that totally skewed the trading market for years! If it were unbreedable, maybe it would be okay (although that negates a lot of Natayah' stuff about breeding mechanics with Coppers and Xenos) but if it is breed-able it would just create a new class of elite players who could dominate the trade market. The only way I see to avoid that, and still have it breed-able, is to make it dirt cheap like the commons so everyone could have one.

[olympe]

I don't quite understand how it's us forum goers who profit the most from the market. Activity on the forums doesn't gain us a single shard for the market

[osmarks]

Actually, according to my very rough analysis, prize trade value is still a bit out of balance. Ignoring how long they've been around, admittedly.

 

Assuming two CB golds are produced per day, as many are produced as prizes. They also breed better - 1 prize per four breedings, roughly (yes, this is technically reverse engineering). Golds seem to breed far more golds. Despite CB prizes and CB golds theoretically being roughly equal in rarity, even 2G prizes are usually considered worth more than CB golds. Even prizefails are valued at a copper or so - approximately 1/4th of a gold. This appears to not reflect rarity well.

 

This can be explained by fewer prizes due to less time available, selection bias on my part (due perhaps to me  not seeing cheaper prizes due to their going fast - their random distribution means that unlike with CB golds going to dedicated hunters, they get sent to random people, who may just want a few sprites they like), inertia in pricing, people not caring much about precise rarity (unlikely), price fixing, or maybe some simpler other thing.

Edited September 17, 2018 by osmarks

[HeatherMarie]

45 minutes ago, animatedrose said:

 

I don't really get why people want to reward certain kinds of players. The most active, the oldest, the ones with the most dergs on their scrolls, or other such tiers of playing. Chances are, they probably have almost everything in the Market anyway, or I see enough saying that have no use of shards because "they have everything". Why give them a boost that they likely won't even use unless they're army-building, since you can only AP Market eggs and not trade them? Seems kind of like a waste to me. Some users would kill for that kind of boost but you keep locking them out because "oh, you're not active/old/prolific enough in the game, sorry" with suggestions like this.

 

The Market wasn't made for the elite players. It was made for EVERYONE equally.

 

Very very much this. I really don't understand the mentality of 'older users deserve something special'.... We already have *plenty*. We have more overall dragons simply by playing longer. We have things like 'original' Vampires and holiday breeds, that no one else can ever get again (and yes, that original date is definitely important to some people). We are more likely to have things like CB rares simply because we've had more time to hunt or trade for them. We have badges for past events that no one else will ever be able to get, we were able to experience those wonderful events simply by being an older user. Why on earth do we need anything else?

 

And yeah, basically the entire POINT of the Market is to *supplement* cave-hunting. To help users who already play and hunt but might not have the reflexes or luck to grab certain breeds. TJ himself said that the Market should never 'supplant' actual hunting. So a Market-only dragon would really just destroy the entire purpose of the Market.

[Zeditha]

I just want to suggest something that has nothing to do with the current conversation but I couldn't think of a better place to put it.

 

It'd be nice if the egg images in the Market linked to the breed's Encyclopedia page.

 

That is all.

[QVic]

On ‎5‎/‎20‎/‎2018 at 10:11 PM, TJ09 said:

This is a temporary thread that will eventually be closed around the new Market feature. Individual, well-scoped suggestions can always be their own thread. Please post bugs/anything broken in help.

 

Design Philosophies:

• .....
• Getting currency should not be a "grind" or require crazy levels of activity.

 

It has been a few months since the Shard system and Market Place is in place.  I agree that it doesn't take a lot of work or grinding to get 100 shard / weeks.  However, sometime due to real life schedule, I cannot always get 100 shards / week.  Would it be a good idea to accumulate unused shard quota for future weeks?  If I only collected 50 shards week 1, then 50 unused shard quota will accumulate to week 2.  So I can collect 150 shards on week 2.  The total limit as of week 2 is still 200 shards.  Maybe we can set a limit that any unused shard quota will be reset in a monthly / yearly basis?

 

On second thought, what if we just set a 5200 shards / year limit?

Just a thought.

[Zeditha]

3 minutes ago, QVic said:

 

It has been a few months since the Shard system and Market Place is in place.  I agree that it doesn't take a lot of work or grinding to get 100 shard / weeks.  However, sometime due to real life schedule, I cannot always get 100 shards / week.  Would it be a good idea to accumulate unused shard quota for future weeks?  If I only collected 50 shards week 1, then 50 unused shard quota will accumulate to week 2.  So I can collect 150 shards on week 2.  The total limit as of week 2 is still 200 shards.  Maybe we can set a limit that any unused shard quota will be reset in a monthly / yearly basis?

 

On second thought, what if we just set a 5200 shards / year limit?

Just a thought.

I'd be far more comfortable, personally, with a monthly limit or a monthly-reset rollover than a year. The reasoning behind my personal hesitance towards a year-long cap is that some players *will* grind, or even feel like they have to grind, to get that 5200 as fast as possible. The players who get those shards fast /can still only earn the same total amount, sure, but they get access to the rewards faster - which may or may not be a good thing for them.

Anyway I feel like the idea deviates somewhat from the relaxed, play-as-much-as-you-want kind of atmosphere Dragon Cave has always had.

 

A monthly-reset rollover, though, I would be completely on board with. If rollovers are reset at the same time as raffles are drawn, that would make sense to me.

...actually, just thought about that. Raffles can occur midweek. So this could work one of two ways:

 - the rollover resets at the end of the week containing the raffle (or the week before the raffle?)

 - The rollover resets at the same time as the raffle; shards gained that week are counted as rollover first, then as that week's.

 

In case that second idea is unclear, here's an example:

Say the raffle is on a Wednesday, and you have a current total limit (100 + rollover) of 200.

By Wednesday night, you have earned 150 shards.

Since the rollover you had was 100, only 50 of the 150 you earned count towards this week's limit, so you can still earn 50 more.

[HeatherMarie]

I definitely would not want to see the shard limits change to an entire year.... As Zeditha mentioned, that would change things a lot. People with the ability to 'grind', even if not *needed*, most definitely would, and would get that year's worth of shards within a couple weeks. Which would put them at a huge advantage to everyone else, even if the advantage was temporary. Personally, in that scenario I would *unintentionally* 'grind' simply because I play way too much (I normally earn my 100 shards in less then 24 hours), and I wouldn't want that. I *like* that no matter how much I play I only get those shard 'rewards' up to a certain point each week.

 

I'm fairly indifferent on unused shard rollover, it does kind of make sense to be allowed to acquire the same amount everyone else does even if that means earning 'extra' in a certain week. 

[DragonLady86]

I'd like the rollover idea for the purely selfish reason of missing 8 one week and how much it bugs me that my total isn't an even number.  I do agree that a yearly reset is too much though. 

[Chaos Rider]

Unrelated, but green Two-headed Lindwyrms, Sunrise/Sunsets and Zyumorphs are still unavailable in the market

[animatedrose]

I like the rollover idea. Not so much the "set the limit to one year" idea. As mentioned, that allows for insane grinding, which can give advantages over others who don't have the time to do that. And with the yearly limit at 5200, gained in what could be days or weeks...need I go on?

 

Possible market crash

sudden Gold/rare rush

RIP all non-grinders when the prices possibly skyrocket past the 5200 yearly limit

 

I like the rollover idea. It wouldn't completely eliminate any unearned shards, though I think putting a cap on that would be needed too. I like the idea of monthly rollover. I'm indifferent on whether it stops due to the raffle or carries on through it until the month technically ends.

[DragonLady86]

17 hours ago, Chaos Rider said:

Unrelated, but green Two-headed Lindwyrms, Sunrise/Sunsets and Zyumorphs are still unavailable in the market

are the lindwyrms possibly like the other colored alts?  Dorsals and ridgewings  you have a chance of getting the other color.

 

not really sure why some are separate and some aren't....but what do I know.

[Chaos Rider]

3 hours ago, DragonLady86 said:

are the lindwyrms possibly like the other colored alts?  Dorsals and ridgewings  you have a chance of getting the other color.

 

not really sure why some are separate and some aren't....but what do I know.

They're biome based. Silver ones in alpine and green in forest. Them and Zyus are the only biome based dragons not in the market. Idk why Sunrise/Sunsets aren't included either

[RealWilliamShakespeare]

Honestly I really don’t like the rollover idea. Shards were set up as a reward for being active, so if you weren’t being active, why should you be allowed to gain more than the monthly limit some other time?

 

And gonna agree that changing the cap to a whole year would probably be a bad idea. The system seems fine as it is now imo

[Soulsborne]

I definitely like the rollover idea (as long as it doesn't accumulate for more than.. let's say a month - so 400 max if you were inactive that month) and in a similar fashion I'd enjoy a monthly cap of 400 shards in general as opposed to 100 / week.

 

Yearly caps would make me grind even if I didn't plan to... I'm strange in that regard

[Fuzzbucket]

31 minutes ago, RealWilliamShakespeare said:

Honestly I really don’t like the rollover idea. Shards were set up as a reward for being active, so if you weren’t being active, why should you be allowed to gain more than the monthly limit some other time?

 

And gonna agree that changing the cap to a whole year would probably be a bad idea. The system seems fine as it is now imo

 

I sort of agree - then again, sometimes I am off line for a bit and as a wildly active player it would be nice to catch up. A year is FAR too much, though. MAYBE as much as a single week ? And ONLY immediately after a week when you didn't hit the limit.

Edited September 24, 2018 by Fuzzbucket

[Zeditha]

I still like 4-week rollover periods, because everyone is going to have that two-week bump in their life where they can't get to the shard limit, and I know it annoys me (mildly) that my shard count isn't a neat number...

(Although mine is because apparently I'm not active enough to get all 100 shards pretty much any week, I usually get around 70 in a fairly active week lol)

 

but yeah, a 4-week rollover would be... nice. It'd give less urgency to the game, IMO.

 

A secondary thought on how it could work: instead of rollover 'periods', where the rollover is refreshed for the new period, a rollover that stays for that amount of time might work better. So if you missed a few shards 3 weeks ago you can still catch up, but if it was 4 it's been deleted.

 

Also definitely a rollover cap. Like maybe you can't roll more than 50 shards over in any given week (leading to a maximum shard cap of 300 if you gain no shards).

[TJ09]

Similar to the trading hub feedback thread, this thread was created to consolidate a lot of opinions, first reactions, and general feedback early on in the life of the market. At this point, it's probably best to fork this thread into smaller threads for individual suggestions (e.g. potential shard rollover).

 

If you'd like posts from here to be split into a new thread (rather than starting afresh), feel free to reach out to one of the moderators for assistance.