Jump to content
TJ09

Market Feedback

TJ09

Please report all bugs in the Help section. This thread is for discussion and feedback only.

Message added by TJ09

Recommended Posts

Let's say it this way: I've been playing for 8 years and 9 months by now. That would have given me roughly 9 CB golds over the years, had the market been there from day one. I currently have 3, none of which were caught by me. So, yes, I'm really happy about the market. :D 

Share this post


Link to post
6 minutes ago, olympe said:

Let's say it this way: I've been playing for 8 years and 9 months by now. That would have given me roughly 9 CB golds over the years, had the market been there from day one. I currently have 3, none of which were caught by me. So, yes, I'm really happy about the market. :D 

Nearly the same here and I must say that I am very grateful for the chance to get a few more, no matter how long it takes. I am in this game for the long haul, not instant gratification. (Which turns out to be a good thing XD )

Share this post


Link to post
2 hours ago, HeatherMarie said:

I still don't understand *why* Chickens are more expensive then Golds

 

I assume because golds can breed so technically bred+CB golds are more common than chickens, who can't breed and thus their only population is whatever's in-cave. Same goes for the other unbreedables.

 

+1 for buying a prize regardless of whatever the price so long as it doesn't take longer than it would to get one from a raffle.

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, Shadowdrake said:

+1 for buying a prize regardless of whatever the price so long as it doesn't take longer than it would to get one from a raffle.

It can literally take forever to get a prize from the raffle, as there's no guarantee you'll ever win one. So that's not much of a restriction. 😛 

Share this post


Link to post
4 hours ago, HeatherMarie said:

I still don't understand *why* Chickens are more expensive then Golds, I most definitely see more Chickens in the biomes then Golds!

Agreed! I actually think that because Chickens can't breed, they're less valuable than Golds. And not many people seem to hoard Chickens for their looks either. But maybe that's just me?

Share this post


Link to post

I was never talking about instant gratification. And honestly TJ is going to have to do something eventually to support the site. Personal views or not. I will continue to use adblockers and there's nothing you can do to change my views on that. Call me a jerk, I don't turn off ads on any site for any reason. I have learned that the hard way. And several others are in their right to do the same. TJ's views might seem admirable but not really something that's going to sustain the site in the long run. I'm actually surprised it's lasted so long!

 

The most games I play with any subscriptions don't really imbalance the game that much or "cater to well off people" I am by far not well off by any means. There's plenty that can be done to make it so it's not a major advantage. And we all know how mobile games are these days! I'm not talking about giving people THIS much of an advantage. I think some of you are overreacting a bit!

 

I'd be on board with lowering the prices a bit but it just seems too underwhelming. Do I think Golds should be handed out? Heck no. But do I think that it's way too expensive as it is right now? Definitely. To be honest, I'm probably not even going to use the market at all in the forseeable future. I'd rather just check the trades.

Share this post


Link to post
5 hours ago, Kiritora said:

I was never talking about instant gratification. And honestly TJ is going to have to do something eventually to support the site. Personal views or not. I will continue to use adblockers and there's nothing you can do to change my views on that. Call me a jerk, I don't turn off ads on any site for any reason. I have learned that the hard way. And several others are in their right to do the same. TJ's views might seem admirable but not really something that's going to sustain the site in the long run. I'm actually surprised it's lasted so long!

 

The most games I play with any subscriptions don't really imbalance the game that much or "cater to well off people" I am by far not well off by any means. There's plenty that can be done to make it so it's not a major advantage. And we all know how mobile games are these days! I'm not talking about giving people THIS much of an advantage. I think some of you are overreacting a bit!

 

I'd be on board with lowering the prices a bit but it just seems too underwhelming. Do I think Golds should be handed out? Heck no. But do I think that it's way too expensive as it is right now? Definitely. To be honest, I'm probably not even going to use the market at all in the forseeable future. I'd rather just check the trades.

 

Not sure what you are talking about when you say TJ has to do something to 'support' the site.... Everything the site is is because of him (and spriters of course). I'm pretty darn sure the ad revenue doesn't completely cover all expenses for such a huge site played by so many people, it's a very safe assumption that TJ puts some of his own money into this site... And of course a *ton* of his own free time with no payment whatsoever... 

 

When you say Golds are 'way too expensive', what exactly are you thinking would be a fair price? I very very much doubt it will ever go below 6 months of shards, personally. And I don't think it should. The current cost of roughly 10 months may seem a bit much to some people, but I can't see it being lowered significantly. The price does fluctuate a bit, though, and will continue to do so. 

 

What do you mean by it being underwhelming? Are you talking about the Market in general, or just the price of rares? Personally I think it's very awesome, to be able to collect shards simply by playing the same way you always do and eventually be able to buy something that you've never been able to catch. The Market has only been a thing for a bit over 2 months, and already I can afford to *buy* an Aeon, or a Blusang, both of which I used to have tons of trouble getting (if I still had my old slower internet I'd still be having that much trouble and would *love* to buy one of those!). Personally I see the Market as more geared towards players who simply don't have the reflexes or luck to catch rares... Maybe for people who grab rares all the time (I know there are some people who even catch CB Golds all the time!) the Market might not be such a huge deal, but for people who struggle to catch certain breeds it's an awesome idea to be able to save up towards a guaranteed thing, instead of trying and failing to catch one for months and months.

Share this post


Link to post
6 hours ago, Kiritora said:

I was never talking about instant gratification. And honestly TJ is going to have to do something eventually to support the site. Personal views or not. I will continue to use adblockers and there's nothing you can do to change my views on that. Call me a jerk, I don't turn off ads on any site for any reason. I have learned that the hard way. And several others are in their right to do the same. TJ's views might seem admirable but not really something that's going to sustain the site in the long run. I'm actually surprised it's lasted so long!

 

Actually, TJ has stated before that ad revenue completely pays for this site without needing extra, but he set up first the ability to donate then later the ad-removal because people ASKED for them.  Granted, that may not be true anymore, I have no idea, but I do know he has mentioned that several times in the past. 

Share this post


Link to post

I can vouch for that. People actually asked here, in S&R, for a way to support the site without any in-game benefits. Which is how the ad removal thing got invented.

Share this post


Link to post
On ‎8‎/‎5‎/‎2018 at 12:52 PM, Kiritora said:

I was never talking about instant gratification. And honestly TJ is going to have to do something eventually to support the site. Personal views or not. I will continue to use adblockers and there's nothing you can do to change my views on that. Call me a jerk, I don't turn off ads on any site for any reason. I have learned that the hard way. And several others are in their right to do the same. TJ's views might seem admirable but not really something that's going to sustain the site in the long run. I'm actually surprised it's lasted so long!

 

The most games I play with any subscriptions don't really imbalance the game that much or "cater to well off people" I am by far not well off by any means. There's plenty that can be done to make it so it's not a major advantage. And we all know how mobile games are these days! I'm not talking about giving people THIS much of an advantage. I think some of you are overreacting a bit!

 

I'd be on board with lowering the prices a bit but it just seems too underwhelming. Do I think Golds should be handed out? Heck no. But do I think that it's way too expensive as it is right now? Definitely. To be honest, I'm probably not even going to use the market at all in the forseeable future. I'd rather just check the trades.

 

I have to agree with @HeatherMarie and others here. The well-off and more active players already have the advantage. How many players only playing for a few hours a week do you know who have managed to catch tons of CB Golds, Silvers, and so on? I can't name one. But the well-off and more active ones who have the ability to be here nearly 24/7, well... Why should they have the advantage in EVERYTHING when they're the ones dominating the cave biomes and the trading hubs already? Why should they control the Market too?

 

The Market was created for a level playing field. That was TJ's goal with it. So that casual players can get the same chance at rare stuff that the more active players have the ability to hunt for and hoard. Players that have never even seen CB Golds, let alone caught any (this includes plenty of older players), now have a chance at them. The current expense and length of waiting--9 months last I checked--is just fine when some players have gone up to 10 YEARS and have been unsuccessful.

 

Do I think the gained shard amount could be higher? Maybe, but right now it's just enough that just about everyone can hit the cap easily. And that's the point. Because if the system catered to the most active, the ratios would jump and the prices would skyrocket. And your little price problem would get worse within WEEKS rather than MONTHS. We'll likely see something similar happen in a few months when everyone saving for a CB Gold (myself included) finally hits the shard amount needed to get one, unless TJ locks prices before then.

Share this post


Link to post

I, personally, consider myself a relatively active player - I visit the trade hub a lot, spend a lot of time hunting the cave, and often hit the shard limit on about Thursday each week.

 

However, I have basically no chance of ever catching my own CB Gold/Silver/Copper (I have a lot of coppers via trading off unbreedables and xenowyrms, but that'd never be enough for a CB Gold). I've seen two golds in the cave so far, but caught none, and never expect to, as I just don't have the reflexes and low-latency internet connection. The Market might eventually be great for me (except for the infuriating lack of biome variants...).

 

I just think that more active players should be rewarded somehow, and that a good way to do that is raising the weekly shard cap a bit so that there is at least some distinguishing factor. Though not for money, especially as it was claimed that ad revenue is already enough.

Share this post


Link to post
3 hours ago, osmarks said:

I just think that more active players should be rewarded somehow, and that a good way to do that is raising the weekly shard cap a bit so that there is at least some distinguishing factor. Though not for money, especially as it was claimed that ad revenue is already enough.

More active players already do get rewarded - by better trades, more of the more valuable dragons and so on.

Share this post


Link to post
1 minute ago, olympe said:

More active players already do get rewarded - by better trades, more of the more valuable dragons and so on.

Better trades? What?

Also, as I said, there are probably dragons which the average user can't catch regardless of activity, because other players are just really good.

Share this post


Link to post

Well, the more you trade, the better trades you'll find (before someone else does). The more you bump your own trades, the more people will see them. 

Share this post


Link to post
4 hours ago, osmarks said:

I, personally, consider myself a relatively active player - I visit the trade hub a lot, spend a lot of time hunting the cave, and often hit the shard limit on about Thursday each week.

 

However, I have basically no chance of ever catching my own CB Gold/Silver/Copper (I have a lot of coppers via trading off unbreedables and xenowyrms, but that'd never be enough for a CB Gold). I've seen two golds in the cave so far, but caught none, and never expect to, as I just don't have the reflexes and low-latency internet connection. The Market might eventually be great for me (except for the infuriating lack of biome variants...).

 

I just think that more active players should be rewarded somehow, and that a good way to do that is raising the weekly shard cap a bit so that there is at least some distinguishing factor. Though not for money, especially as it was claimed that ad revenue is already enough.

 

Why does there need to be a distinguishing factor? There already is. A majority of more active players are the ones dominating the trades and the biomes. Casual players are already being left in the dust that way. The Market is their chance to at least get the things that most active players can usually readily access.

 

I find the Market to be a dream for me. I can finally get my hands on CBs of stuff that I would normally never get. I have seen a Gold and a Silver once in the biomes. I've only been here a year. There are users who have been here ten times longer than me, who were here when those were first released, and NEVER caught one.

 

I think you keep forgetting about a thing called price change. Those are a thing in the Market. If the active players get this advantage you want and raid the Market of all the rare things (because who wouldn't want more CB rares if they were basically handed to you?), casual players would NEVER get them. Ever. That would defeat the purpose of all the work put into the Market and leveling the field for all players.

 

The Market was NOT made for active players. That's the biomes, where they already dominate. The Market was made to give casuals a chance at stuff they had little or no means to get on their own. You remove that chance if you give all the active players an advantage in the Market too. Why not just kick out all the players that can't be on a specific amount of time a day while you're at it?

Edited by animatedrose

Share this post


Link to post

I doubt the market will ever be significant enough to substantially change ratios. Except briefly in spikes where lots of people can suddenly afford something.

 

Anyway. There's probably a point for most active and casual players at which they can't click fast enough to stand any chance of getting, say, a CB gold (without months of ND production attempts). The market helps with this sort of issue, except that it takes absolutely ages to get anywhere, regardless of how much you actually play (above a certain point).

Share this post


Link to post
56 minutes ago, animatedrose said:

 

Why does there need to be a distinguishing factor? There already is. A majority of more active players are the ones dominating the trades and the biomes. Casual players are already being left in the dust that way. The Market is their chance to at least get the things that most active players can usually readily access.

 

 

Yes yes yes. 

 

Personally, I'm what you might call a 'super-active player', I'm literally hunting the AP 5+ hours every single day. And I do *not* want my lack of social life etc to mean I get an advantage in the Market. I already get an advantage simply by being *able* to sit around refreshing the AP and biomes for hours at a time, by having the fast internet and time to catch tons of uncommons/rare-ish eggs to trade for things I really want, I'm almost always here at the very start of a new release which is a huge advantage when it comes to grabbing the new eggs before everyone else crowds the biomes.... There are already *plenty* of advantages in this game for 'active players'. The Market is meant to level that playing field a bit. The Market, imo, is most helpful to people who *can't* grab those rare and hard to get things, whether because of reflexes or time or whatever... I'm not saying it's not helpful at all for the other players, but I certainly don't think it needs to cater to more active players.

Share this post


Link to post

I hope, in near future prices will be more... let us say more balanced. For instane: dino costs 3400, gold 4100, gaia 400. OK about gold, but dino should be much cheaper, let us say 1500 and gaia same. :)

Share this post


Link to post
32 minutes ago, MIGOR said:

I hope, in near future prices will be more... let us say more balanced. For instane: dino costs 3400, gold 4100, gaia 400. OK about gold, but dino should be much cheaper, let us say 1500 and gaia same. :)

 

Don't know about anyone else, but I see Gaias a lot more than Dinos. And I see Dinos a lot more than I see Golds. It makes sense for the super rare stuff to cost a lot, because they need to stay “rare” and not be really affordable. Golds and Dinos are a rare sight, so I think their prices are justified.

 

However, I do agree that the price of Xenowyrms should be heightened - they’re worth a lot more than 400 each. (Is that their permanent price? I never use the market so I’m unaware, but have their prices been lowered because of the raffle this month requiring them, meaning they cost a bit less to buy?? That might explain their low price, but they seem worth more than 400.)

Share this post


Link to post

While I agree the Xeno pricing seems a tad strange, Market prices are not supposed to be based on what something is 'worth' or even how much it's seen in the biomes. TJ said it's about over/underpopulation. When you looked at simple, general population, Xenos are relatively common. They normally breed well, they appear in the AP fairly frequently, and in the biomes relatively consistently. Dinos, on the other hand, are only available in biomes, not breeding, so right away their population is going to be vastly different from Xenos. While I've had pretty great luck with them recently (besides yesterday when I missed *four* in one day) they are most definitely on a completely different tier then Xenos simply because their population can only be made through the biomes.

Share this post


Link to post
2 hours ago, RealWilliamShakespeare said:

However, I do agree that the price of Xenowyrms should be heightened - they’re worth a lot more than 400 each. (Is that their permanent price? I never use the market so I’m unaware, but have their prices been lowered because of the raffle this month requiring them, meaning they cost a bit less to buy?? That might explain their low price, but they seem worth more than 400.)

Well, Xenowyrms are pretty new in the market, but have been at 400 shards since they joined. See Price tracing spreadsheet.

Part of the perceived versus the actual value might be the fact that Xenowyrms seem to be generated as "general" Xenowyrms with an almost common ratio, their type only gets determined through the biome they drop in. (At least it seems that way to me, but I might be way off.) So, you have one almost-common, but with six different sprites (and descriptions), making each of the variants more rare than Xenos in general. Obviously.

Another thing could be player demand. Since Xenos seem rarer than their ratios imply, there's a lot of player demand. The fact that the sprites are very elaborate and drop-dead gorgeous probably adds to that. And higher demand means the eggs disappear even faster than they should, given their rarity - or lack thereof.

Share this post


Link to post
On 8/2/2018 at 1:19 PM, HeatherMarie said:

I still don't understand *why* Chickens are more expensive then Golds, I most definitely see more Chickens in the biomes then Golds! I still have no idea what I'm going to buy with my shards since I don't care about getting a CB Gold and I can catch all uncommons... But it's still fun to watch my shard count increase.

 

forgive me because I am going to mangle the heck out of what I am trying to say....

 

If I understand how the market works... the lower priced items are the least collected from the cave and perhaps bred. They are the commons, and logically they are less expensive - but where it goes with golds and chickens, Chickens are quite uncommon, but they also seem to be heavily collected.  I think to prevent an over abundance of chickens being bought from the market, the system has decided that they should cost more. The price does fluctuate. I'm not going to sit down and attempt to math it because A: I hate math with a passion, and B: Reverse.Engineering is against the rules. But I do believe TJ did say somewhere it had to do with their overall population. I suppose its a deterrent to have chooks costly.

 

I have no idea if that made sense at all

 

As for the market, I am just gonna collect my shards until -  when ever. I actually don't feel like getting anything from the market at this time. Golds or otherwise. (I tend to hoard game currency when I play games.)

 

 

Share this post


Link to post

I believe pricing is based on mystical things known as "the ratios": something like the proportion of all the dragons which should be X species versus how many actually are.

Share this post


Link to post

I am sure some idea of this has come out before, but I'd like to toss it out there. I'd like to see a "Market Only" Dragon available. Why a Market Only Dragon? Well, for Lore Reasons, we have people who study and mess with elements, so .... not counting things like papers and cheese dragons that cannot be made anymore as they existed before a world "Lore and Rules" came to be, it makes sense that, as with certain dragons, some dragons do not exist outside of a laboratory or magic scholarly hall where elements and magicks and science and human experimental mucking, often with things that perhaps we should not be, and being that we are generally a lot worse at this in many aspects to dragons themselves, and we have to be by far more careful, that there would be a "Produced Magical Dragon" that could only be purchased from a Cabal of Mages or whatever in game Lore excuse you want to use for them not existing in the Natural world. It could be even something that GoN's find abhorrent as a corruption of Nature and if they found such a thing sitting in an "egg" form in the State of Nature they would destroy it. So passing from Human to Human would make sense. That's enough on that.

 

The real reason? I know so many many people want "Prize Dragons" to exist in the Market. The problem with the name of "Prize Dragon" becomes problematic if it isn't a prize. If you don't win it in a game or a raffle or whatever, it isn't a prize. It is a purchase. I mean, sure you can say that at least one Spriter is ok with a Marketplace Version of one of the Prize Dragons, and they are "technically" Tinsels and Shimmerscales, but really... They are Prize Dragons. But people want them because they are exclusive and want to be able to have a chance or a way to collect all the dragons. I get that 1000%. The only reason I have any difference of opinion of all was because I basically had already hung-up my Dragon Trading and Heavy Collection Focus and had mostly gone into focus on Player Run Events, then life got crazy and I had to focus on life for a bit, and was mostly gone from here, but I'd pop in now and again. Finally came back, spent a few months cave hunting and finding it actually really enjoyable, not something I have normally done in the past, wanted to return and kick off more time with Player Events again, started poking around the Forums, found them a little hard to read for whatever reason (I had a warm light filter for a bit, then I think my eyeballs just readjusted to where everything was again, perhaps it was more too much info overload not being able to being Forum Pro to Forum Newb, and I have a new monitor and things seem really nice) and so I was starting back into getting that then BAM. So I get those who haven't gotten that BAM, especially when you are already in a state of mind that you are long retired from most of that aspect of the game so it is no longer a driving force to your play, and going - Look Natayah, You can play the Wise Zen Monk all you want, but you really can't speak from a point of view of a "regular active" player anymore for so many reasons. I don't think I would necessarily argue against you on it.

 

But if we have a marketplace, I think it is super ultra-cool that you can get Non-Biome (or like just "THE CAVE" from the OG Cave Days) breeds as that frees up a lot of Breeding options now. I want to go crazy buying Xenos now just to see if there are some of them I want to play around with. There is always a chance anyway of them making a random Xeno, but you can have even more fun with a non Biome based breeding when that is how the dragon was originally created. That is HUGE For Xenos and Coppers!!

 

But I still think we should still consider a "Market ONLY Special Dragon." It should look super cool, and it should be expensive, and it should ONLY be available from the Market. I mean - Yes, everyone who does the time and activity will eventually have enough Shard to buy them. But you will have to make those decisions, and if it is a super cool dragon, there will be choices on what is more important to you, and I like the idea that shards are not only earned via normal game play, and it doesn't require insane activity, but if you want to keep it accumulating, you gotta be at least a little more than once in awhile active to get enough to buy more expensive things. And doing those things, from breeding, to grabbing eggs to hatching eggs and growing dragons and trading dragons and whatever else is usually also a good indication of a person who is engaged in the game. Maybe they aren't engaged on the Forums (and to be fair, sometimes not all players want, or need, or don't really do English, so avoid the Forums). But there is a good number of engaged players who are heavily engaged in the Forums. And I want there to be some reward system or something in place that rewards this activity not just because they are super engaged and do so much for the Community that really helps keep other people involved (be it via off game official or non official Pages, Sites, Chats, or just Forum only), that is *GOOD* for the Game! The shards and the Marketplace are such amazing additions. But I still would really like to see that Market Only Dragon as the Final way that people can say, "I've been here for a long time, I've got something cool to show for it. Or multiple somethings cools and I *EARNED* this." Because it seems like a lot of the issues I see, and understand, are people saying those very things. It really makes me sad when people feel and say "I've been here for so long and what do I have to show for it?" (Well, probably more than you think, but this isn't really a tangible game, so you aren't going to have a special pin or button. The best you get is pixels, but I totally get you.)

 

I also would like to possibly revisit the idea of badges and display cabinets and whatever for accomplishing certain tasks or feats or whatever - but that is another thread.

 

Mostly, an engaged player base has a lot of non-tangible items, and a lot of feelings or special things that are special in a way that takes explaining (for example - special lineages - not all people know what a certain lineage means or doesn't mean when the adult dragon has the same pixel as all the others of its breed.. Maybe a Special "Earned by Collecting & Spending Shards" or other things, although they are still pixels, they are pixels recognized by the community as something (Dragons, Badges, Displays in Cabinets, Special Eggs, Whatever), and maybe that will help with some of that stuff. Or maybe not. But if there isn't going to be a change on the "Prize" thing, that is at least an option to start with. Things take time, and we don't always get what we do or don't want. But I myself am happy, and I would also like to see others more happy too. And I'm not looking for a Limited Edition Dragon that only the first 200 people can buy as that seems..... too much like a pay to play or grind to win game. And this game keeps its charm and reason I like to come back is because it is exactly NOT that. TJ goes out of his way to make that. You can pay to not have Ads. You ain't getting special treatment cuz you did that. I approve. However, I also don't want to start a whole other issue where people are upset about Limited Edition Stuff. We had that with CB Holidays, and we actually reversed that I and I think, despite my initial shock, I am super very happy about that. I wouldn't want anything like that near the marketplace as I am hoping it continues to stay what I feel the really positive and cool thing that it is, and will continue to be as new things are added and rolled out.

 

Although again, I want to make clear, I don't have an issue with things where you either Win or you Don't. That is a part of playing games. But having come out on the Winning side of things, after just returning from a long hiatus, I cannot even begin to remember how I felt about when I gave up on the crazy dragon collecting via trades and valued items and settled into a "I'lll be happy with what I have, see what I can pick up along the way, and let the universe do its thing." I'm no longer a competitive player. Not having access or having access to things doesn't bother me, and that just isn't why most players play the game, or at least start the game. It is a Collectibles Game, after all.

 

Yah I should have gone to bed an hour ago.

Share this post


Link to post

I'd only agree to a special market only dragon if it wasn't too terribly expensive. NOT Gold-tier expensive. Something like a 1000 shards or something, NOT 4000+. And maybe make it unbreedable. To me a market-exclusive dragon seems more like a trophy than a building block for lineages, we've got the biomes and CB dragons for that. And I can't help but to kinda fear a super-expensive special exclusive dragon would mark the return of the **** ing irritating 2G Prize fiasco, where everyone and their mother only asked for very low-gen Prizes only a select few people had access to. But this time people keep asking for 2Gs of this special dragon that's hard to get and nothing else. Sure, it'd be a dragon that's available for everyone... but the problem is that not everyone has the patience to save up shards for YEARS to get a crazy-expensive thing. Case in point: I gave up on saving for a market Gold because there are so many other things in the market that tempt me way more than any uninteresting-looking overrated and over-hyped Gold could ever do. Plus Golds can be found in the biomes even if they're vanishingly rare; a market-exclusive dragon cannot show up in the biomes.

Share this post


Link to post
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.