Trading Hub Feedback

[Starscream]

5 minutes ago, purpledragonclaw said:

 

I think that's appropriate for the Wants box, it states what will be accepted and what will be declined.

 

I also recommended Starscream's post so it's easier to find.

I wanted a second thought on that because I was sort of yes, no... yes... no yes? so yeah, I think its flyable too.

[animatedrose]

Hey, they finally pinned the rules to the top of this thread. Progress at last! *claps*

[Pendragon]

Joining in on this as someone who was just notified by a kind soul that offering my forum name in the Trade Hub for people to find my wishlist/pm me was apparently bannable. I think that for many of us who have used DCF as an extension of DC for years it is VERY easy to assume that this new function was meant to work with the trading culture already established on DCF before, given that the was no way to actually trade without partaking in DCF trading before the Hub. To me, it seemed like a nice new addition for those who don't use the forum to trade and a way for those of us who do use the forum to do quick small trades / filter through teleport links easily. 

 

NONE of these guidelines are listed on the Trade Hub itself, so I assumed it was acceptable to list trade information like normal, particularly for a trade where someone might be looking for my wishlist or want to inquire about their offer. It seems odd to preach that DC/DCF are separate and then only post the rules for the Trade Hub on DCF. Maybe it is my fault for not looking into this thread before, but it never crossed my mind there was discourse about the rules going on until someone told me I was breaking a rule that was not actually stated any where on site. 

[ninish]

Just to clarify for some people, as to why the word "misuse" alone was not clear enough:

 

When in any site, i see 'don't misuse this thing' it generally refers to:

-not posting mature/irrelevant content

-don't be rude/offensive/agressive

-don't post malicious links

-don't beg

 

This all is "the internet's common sense", or "the internet's unspoken etiquette rules". So... in my head, asking for PMs, or posting a link that directed people to my profile, which is a game-related place, where all i have posted is my dc gaming info (wishlist, a random journal, etc) was... normal? i really don't understand how we were supposed to infer that we couldn't ask for PMs, post safe links to wishlists... I mean, I wasn't begging, i wasn't writing/linking to anything inaproppiate... i've been playing the game for 9 years, and i'm very glad to have the trading hub, but as it was said before, i had no way of knowing that contact between the game and forums was forbidden, or that external links (even most links) were forbidden <- this please, have it be clearly stated somewhere, please, as DC's common sense is very particular.

 

There's nothing wrong with a site having its unique set of rules, i think neopets has a heavy set of rules too, if i remember right? but these need to be very very very clear and include examples, considering that:

1) it's aimed at all ages

2) not all the userbase speaks english fluently (for example, that word 'willful' in the ToC is throwing me off atm... because it has several translations to Spanish, and i quite don't understand which one it represents in that context :c ) (Also, the ToC says, "without the user's permission", but we can't write our permission in the hub... i know the wants box is a 'wanted dragon box' - and maybe it should be renamed somehing like that to avoid more misunderstandings -  but apparently the current stand of DC is that *all* verbal interaction between users is forbidden within the site, so maybe that part should be updated to reflect that? like, don't call out to people, don't refer to your own user name, etc., because as of now, i can read that as allowing me to post my agreement to being contacted both insite and outsite.) [also, please don't say "if you don't speak english then don't play!" or "learn better english!" i'm too tired to elaborate on this, but i'm quite sure an important amount of players don't have english as a mother tongue.]

 

heck, the day before somehow wandering into this thread i had even made a wishlist in google docs, because i now have a better mobile that supports google docs much better, and had been linking to it in my trades (it worked wonders), because i could easily access it from both my phone and laptop, and was adding a tiny url to it in my trades... anyway i avoided getting banned by the skin of my teeth.

 

uhh... this came out quite wordy. i hope i didn't bore you to death too

*coughcough* anyway! I'm glad to see the rules pinned up there! :'D much easier to find this way.

 

Also, can we have something like a temporary lift on bans calling out to users when it is to warn them, until the hub / its guidelines get updated? Like, just posting trades to remind xxx person,  who is doing something bannable, to seek out this thread?  that would serve as a visible warning too to other curious users, until these rules will eventually be known to most users.

 

because since people are doing bannable stuff because they see other people do them, then if they see people posting reminders to read the rules, then they might follow in curiosity...

yeah this is just a sleepy idea.

 

I hope everyone has a lovely night~

 

 

[JavaTigress]

7 hours ago, HeatherMarie said:

@skauble Oohhh thanks for the clarification! Personally I would love to see that 4-limit lifted, I think a lot of people have wanted that even before the hub. And in those cases it definitely would be nice to be able to somehow indicate that you have more you are willing to trade/offer.

This.

 

IF I have more than four I can offer, either I need a way to offer the lot at once if I am offering on the hub, or ELSE an acceptable way to contact the owner of the trade to let them know I have more I can send.

 

All things considered, lifting the limit might be better if TJ isn't ALLOWED to allow for contact on-site?

[Kaini]

Please refrain from making trades just to warn people or direct them to this thread. That is obviously spam, and it's just cluttering the hub with trades that aren't actually trades, and reducing our ability to use it for... actual trading.

 

I understand the well intended spirit behind it, but it's just spam.

[Starscream]

8 minutes ago, Kaini said:

Please refrain from making trades just to warn people or direct them to this thread. That is obviously spam, and it's just cluttering the hub with trades that aren't actually trades, and reducing our ability to use it for... actual trading.

 

I understand the well intended spirit behind it, but it's just spam.

Plus, it probably will get moderated.

[Alrexwolf]

6 minutes ago, Kaini said:

Please refrain from making trades just to warn people or direct them to this thread. That is obviously spam, and it's just cluttering the hub with trades that aren't actually trades, and reducing our ability to use it for... actual trading.

 

I understand the well intended spirit behind it, but it's just spam.

 

so like we can't even help protect each other from the vague undefined rules without getting in trouble? have a freakin' heart, we're just trying to protect each other and especially other users who don't use DCF who will never know. You don't tell them. You can't contact them. We can't contact them any other way besides trades.

 

like i get that it's against the rules but actually modding that for spam at this point is borderline cruel when you can't even help users yourself on the main site understand why they've gotten in trouble. at least people are trying to help. 

[DarkEternity]

8 minutes ago, Alrexwolf said:

 

so like we can't even help protect each other from the vague undefined rules without getting in trouble? have a freakin' heart, we're just trying to protect each other and especially other users who don't use DCF who will never know. You don't tell them. You can't contact them. We can't contact them any other way besides trades.

 

like i get that it's against the rules but actually modding that for spam at this point is borderline cruel when you can't even help users yourself on the main site understand why they've gotten in trouble. at least people are trying to help. 

One person already got banned from the trading hub from trying to warn people. 

[Kaini]

1 minute ago, Alrexwolf said:

 

so like we can't even help protect each other from the vague undefined rules without getting in trouble? have a freakin' heart, we're just trying to protect each other and especially other users who don't use DCF who will never know. You don't tell them. You can't contact them. We can't contact them any other way besides trades.

 

like i get that it's against the rules but actually modding that for spam at this point is borderline cruel when you can't even help users yourself on the main site understand why they've gotten in trouble. at least people are trying to help. 

 

I shouldn't have to explain why this is the exact opposite of helpful. It's spam, it's clogging the hub with trades that aren't actually trades, and creating the idea in other people's heads that that sort of thing is okay, which leads to more spam.

 

 

We're working on a better solution. We're doing our best with limited tools and a brand new feature. Have some patience, we're just people, and it's our job to help.

 

 

Calling us cruel isn't going to change anything for the positive.

[DarkEternity]

Just let them be banned. 

[Alrexwolf]

it IS cruel. You're banning people for rules that don't exist (on the site anyway...) and then blaming people who try to help them and banning them too. 

 

the ban hammer should be retired and the trading hub should be closed until TJ can iron out the rules. it's not fair to ANYONE right now - mods or users. Users are being blamed for not knowing the rules. Users are being blamed for trying to help others know the rules.

 

how is anyone supposed to know the rules if they don't have a forum account and they dont get warned via the trading hub. you are hog tying people and banning them, then not explaining to them (I know it's because you can't but still doesn't that show how fricked up this is?), then blaming them because they got in trouble for something that wasn't explained and that they COULD NEVER HAVE BEEN TOLD IN THE FIRST PLACE.

[HeatherMarie]

Okay, TJ has already said that BANS ARE NOT PERMANENT, any current bans are going to be retroactively moved to a warning-level type system, etc. Right now it's frustrating, yes, but being banned is NOT the end of the world right now because things ARE going to change! Mods have said so, TJ has said so. Just because it's not happening fast enough for some people's preference doesn't mean it's *cruel* to ban people for *obvious* spam. Are there things that people have been banned for that may not be clear as bannable, sure. But I'm pretty darn sure every single person who's using the trading hub to 'warn' others about this stuff is completely aware that that is *definitely* not an okay use of the Want box. 

 

I completely understand the frustration over vague rules, but *deliberately* breaking the rules because you want to 'warn' people really isn't going to help anything. Things are going to change. Bans are going to be retroactively changed. Rules are going to be posted on-site. We've already been told all of that. A little patience can really be beneficial in this situation. And if it's too frustrating to use the hub in the meantime, then don't.

[Starscream]

Thank you heathermarie, that exactly.  I am thinking maybe I should add that somewhere to that pinned post.

 

the system may be one that could lead to a permanent ousting, if one continues to ignore the rules (once they are properly posted). I don't know exactly what the system will entail until it is set up - so lets not make assumptions until we have solid word from the site programmer himself.

[Kaini]

Updates have been made to the hub, and terms of service.

 

Quote

 

Trading Hub

The trading market is now paginated, and the rules have been made clearer—in particular, it should now be extremely obvious that anything other than "wants" or "haves" is not allowed, nor are off-site links. Violations of the trading rules will no longer result in a guaranteed permanent ban. In most cases, the first ban will be for a day, though for particularly bad offenses, more severe consequences may still happen. 

Site Terms

The site terms have been changed; the primary updates are simply clarifications in the wording to make things easier to read. The terms also now clarify that the rules against buying eggs apply specifically to off-site actions (since buying eggs on-site is obviously something we've now had for three months).

 

 

 

(Speak of the devil and he shall appear, haha)

[TJ09]

Quote

Describe what you're offering and/or help others understand what types of offers you are looking for. If creating a public trade, your message should be applicable to many people using the trading hub, not just a specific person.

Warning: Use of trading messages for any purpose except those stated above may result in disciplinary action, such as loss of ability to create public trades. Off-site links are forbidden.

 

The primary changes:

• "Haves" are specifically called out as okay.
• The warning is now explicit about what "misuse" means (spoiler: it means the same thing we've been saying—anything that's not outlined as okay is not okay).
• Only off-site links are forbidden. This is intentional, and it's possible that explicit ways of actually linking to e.g. a group may be introduced in the future.
• Things such as "the offer from X I just got" or "egg XXXX that repulsed" are now forbidden by way of messages needing to be applicable to more than just a single targeted person.

[purpledragonclaw]

Kaini, beat me to it! I was going to link it here!

 

Please, everyone, continue the discussion in this thread with these updates in mind.

[Shadowdrake]

33 minutes ago, TJ09 said:

it means the same thing we've been saying—anything that's not outlined as okay is not okay

With all due respect, you didn't actually outline anything last iteration. It was one sentence of "what the box is for" and one sentence of threats.

 

 

Anyway your ban math is broken unless I'm actually banned for the next hundred millenia.

Edited August 26, 2018 by Shadowdrake

[purpledragonclaw]

I'm willing to bet that's a bug that will be fixed soon. I'm sure more bugs will come up as we use it more, as with any new feature that's rolled out.  

[Fuzzbucket]

It might be wise to specify that forum links are "off site" - I believe they are ?

[osmarks]

Please put the page control stuff at the bottom too for mobile users.

[Aalbiel]

7 hours ago, Shadowdrake said:

With all due respect, you didn't actually outline anything last iteration. It was one sentence of "what the box is for" and one sentence of threats.

 

 

Anyway your ban math is broken unless I'm actually banned for the next hundred millenia.

 

That's just in case you're a vampire, sorry. (Broken maths is broken).

[Fiona]

Is it possible to make the Have/Want box a bit bigger? It's hard to fit a specific "Have" in the box such as a 2nd gen from Spriter's Alt and still have room for what I want, most especially when that want needs to be fairly specific. I was looking for any one of 4 specific breeds last week and had to get very creative with my wants to make it begin to fit. I was actually hoping that the update would give a separate "have" box with as many characters available as the original "want" box.

[JavaTigress]

16 minutes ago, Fiona said:

Is it possible to make the Have/Want box a bit bigger? It's hard to fit a specific "Have" in the box such as a 2nd gen from Spriter's Alt and still have room for what I want, most especially when that want needs to be fairly specific. I was looking for any one of 4 specific breeds last week and had to get very creative with my wants to make it begin to fit. I was actually hoping that the update would give a separate "have" box with as many characters available as the original "want" box.

True... especially SINCE it would be NICE if I have precogged an egg or hatchie, to be able to let others KNOW.

[Moonlight_Eevee]

Also can we have the navigation at the bottom of the page as well?