Trading Hub Feedback

[Sazandora]

I've had way more success with trades on the trading hub than I've EVER had on the forums. Just a few weeks of trading in the hub vs. years of trying and getting nothing on the forums. I am SO glad trading hub is a thing now, I don't even browse the trade forum anymore, unless I'm posting my own trades there.

 

So I kindly ask to NOT shut down the hub. Sure, it needs some fixing -- pagination needs to happen as soon as possible and we need a "have" box. But I'm not sure implementing those is worth the effort of temporarily shutting down the incredibly useful trading hub.

 

yeah I am kinda venting out some of my frustrations with forum trading here. Seriously, forum trading.

Edited August 6, 2018 by Sazandora

[Whirlaway]

1 minute ago, Suzumiya said:

 

I was never planning on using a person's name. Just saying what the person offered and mentioned that I want to accept but can't. Now I know it's not allowed, so I will not do that. We need to make a list of all these rules and pin it! Unless it's somewhere and I missed it. If I did...well, I guess I need to read stuff more carefully.

 

They aren't pinned anywhere. You have to look through many pages of threads to even start to see what could be considered bad or good.

[osmarks]

It doesn't just need pinning. It needs to be onsite, where people will actually read it.

 

Also, we need an actual sane coherent ruleset.

[49ER]

Ok I saw something mentioned a couple pages back and I cannot find it again but someone mentioned saying you have something that is precog'd x --Is THAT now bannable too????  How are we supposed to to genderswaps?

[Kaini]

What I'm saying is everyone here (that has a forum account...) is bemoaning the lack of features we have on the forum. And for now that works - again, the hub is still new and it will be improved in time.

 

I'm sure people without a forum account are delighted to trade at all.

[49ER]

Why can't it be like if you sign up for an acct or something where you have to read the terms and rules and check if you agree to them before using or signing up.  Maybe people won't read them carefully, but at least they had the chance to, and then the mods could say, hey you agreed to the terms before using it.

[osmarks]

The fact that the hub works doesn't mean it doesn't need additions, and you are ignoring the rules issue.

@Kaini

[Shadowdrake]

3 minutes ago, Kaini said:

I'm sure people without a forum account are delighted to trade at all

Until they're blocked from trading after telling someone they have too many eggs one too many times, at which point they have no way to contact a mod.

 

@Suzumiya You shouldn't have to read a forum thread or get banned because there's no rules on-site, that's the point I'm making.

Edited August 6, 2018 by Shadowdrake

[Suzumiya]

5 minutes ago, Whirlaway said:

 

They aren't pinned anywhere. You have to look through many pages of threads to even start to see what could be considered bad or good.

 

This is why I ask questions. I know it makes me sound like an idiot or lazy...but...er, I guess I am lazy if I don't want to read through 30 pages to find out all the rules. I'm sorry. Guess I should take some time to read all the posts and find out all the exact rules. It'll give me something to do. Summer break, so I'm home all day for a week. My best friend is in summer school. Hah. 

[HeatherMarie]

1 minute ago, 49ER said:

Why can't it be like if you sign up for an acct or something where you have to read the terms and rules and check if you agree to them before using or signing up.  Maybe people won't read them carefully, but at least they had the chance to, and then the mods could say, hey you agreed to the terms before using it.

 

What exactly would be in those terms though? It's already been mentioned multiple times that putting a full 'rules' list is simply not realistic because there will *always* be something that's against the rules and seems common sense to most people but someone will say 'well it wasn't specifically in the terms so it has to be allowed!'. So would the terms simply include something like 'the Want box is *only* for describing what dragons you want and *not* for anything else'?

[osmarks]

Just now, HeatherMarie said:

 

What exactly would be in those terms though? It's already been mentioned multiple times that putting a full 'rules' list is simply not realistic because there will *always* be something that's against the rules and seems common sense to most people but someone will say 'well it wasn't specifically in the terms so it has to be allowed!'. So would the terms simply include something like 'the Want box is *only* for describing what dragons you want and *not* for anything else'?

There are things already mentioned which help with getting dragons you want but which are banned. In any case, actually listing exceptions would make the rules tighter, not looser.

[49ER]

Ok I am still waiting for an answer on whether I can put Have: this hatchie , precog'd x  Want:  genderswap

[osmarks]

1 minute ago, 49ER said:

Ok I am still waiting for an answer on whether I can put Have: this hatchie , precog'd x  Want:  genderswap

I think you can. The nebulous haze of rules has been said to allow it.

[Sextonator]

It would also cut down on abuse because people who are innocently breaking the rules will know that what they're doing is against the rules and they'll stop. It's not like people will see the rules and go "What's technically against the rules that isn't specifically defined that I can use to get myself banned?"

[49ER]

Thank you osmarks!

[olympe]

2 hours ago, JavaTigress said:

I am not sure I would like this at ALL.

 

Sometimes people have valid reasons for  cancelling and redoing a trade.

 

For instance MAYBE they wanted to add an egg/hatchie to it?

What about if an egg hatches and cancels the trade? Seems unfair to penalize the person for it THEN.

 

Has bumping REALLY been a huge enough problem to warrant such a drastic 'fix'?

( Legit question as I use the trade hub once in a while only.)

And "sometimes" is not a problem if there's a penalty of 20% of your magi population going on cooldown. So, you have 11 magis. You post 1 trade (10 magis off cooldown left), cancel it (due to penalty, only 8 magis off cooldown left). You do it again and still have 5 magis left.

 

It's not like this system prevents bumping/reposting. It merely punishes, which is especially noticeable when used extensively. And I never meant to punish people for teleports self-cancelling due to stuff hatching or growing up.

 

And, yes, someone cited an example of one player keeping 5 trades on the top of the trading page for 20 minutes through constant bumping.

1 hour ago, Kaini said:

Doubtful that'll happen considering the rules are right there and clear. Or at least they are to 99% of the people on the hub, since the majority of the posts are perfectly fine, even if the user doesn't have a forum account. Seems to be clear enough for most, yes?

 

If you have to justify putting something there, and make leaps to justify it ('a PM link could be considered helping people understand what you want!') then maybeeee one can kinda realize it's not allowed.

 

 

And again if a trade is too complex for the hub (you're looking for a specific mate for a dragon you already have, etc) we have the forum and that's always worked just fine.

 

Edit: Still need Pagination though, haha.

It's nice for some slightly clearer rules to be put on the forum, but they're needed on-site for everyone who doesn't have a forum account and happens to know where to look. And your quote doesn't even get covered by what's on the site.

Wants

Enter a message to help others understand what types of offers you are looking for.

Warning: Misuse of this text may result in disciplinary action, such as loss of ability to create public trades.

Links to groups ("need mates") would help others understand what I'm looking for. Still forbidden. Asking for a PM on the forums could do that, too. Forbidden. Link to a dragon's lineage page (mate for DrAg0) would fit the bill. according to site standards. Forbidden. "Want: CB gold NOW. Will keep bumping." Very clearly stating what they want, but fortunately forbidden, too. Want: The offer of xxx I accidentally declined." Forbidden.

Haves - definitely not covered by that. Fortunately allowed. 

 

And, last but not least: Not every player has a forum account. Giving certain information regarding site rules only on a different site is a bad idea. The same goes for using a feature (eg. trading for mates, bloodswaps...).

 

8 minutes ago, Kaini said:

What I'm saying is everyone here (that has a forum account...) is bemoaning the lack of features we have on the forum. And for now that works - again, the hub is still new and it will be improved in time.

 

I'm sure people without a forum account are delighted to trade at all.

 

 

We may have more options for stating our wants in forum posts, but these things don't have nearly the amount of traffic the trading hub has. I'm sure people without a forum account would be even more delighted if they could trade for what they really want. Or know what they are and aren't allowed to post in the wants section before getting banned from trading again for ignoring the rules that aren't to be found on DC itself.

 

@49ER: The precogg'ed part should be covered by wants, which are officially sanctioned by TJ.

[Shadowdrake]

13 minutes ago, HeatherMarie said:

It's already been mentioned multiple times that putting a full 'rules' list is simply not realistic because there will *always* be something that's against the rules and seems common sense to most people but someone will say 'well it wasn't specifically in the terms so it has to be allowed!'.

The forums has a guideline and the descriptions page has a guideline and I've yet to hear issues with those. If mods take issue with someone going "oh this rule wasn't in it" they can still keep the user banned because when is a user even going to say that unless they've been trade-banned? More rules means less people inadvertently breaking those rules and getting reported which means less work so there's literally no downsides that I can think of except "some jerk in a 100 proceeds to get banned and tries unsuccessfully to argue it". The fact that people have asked the same questions about what's allowed at least 3 times in the same thread indicates that the rule (singular) is bad and should be expanded.

 

 

@49ER you can, it's a have and a want and mods are perfectly fine with people being misleading or wrong in their haves so even if the hatchie wasn't gendered what you said you're still in the right.

Edited August 6, 2018 by Shadowdrake

[osmarks]

I find your idea of punishments for cancelled teleports both useless and too punitive.

 

Disabling 20% (one fifth) of your magi with a stupid cooldown will make it difficult to do legitimate things like, well, bumping at all, changing wants, having stuff grow, etc, and will disproportionately impact new players with few magi.

 

@olympe

 

[HeatherMarie]

3 minutes ago, olympe said:

And "sometimes" is not a problem if there's a penalty of 20% of your magi population going on cooldown. So, you have 11 magis. You post 1 trade (10 magis off cooldown left), cancel it (due to penalty, only 8 magis off cooldown left). You do it again and still have 5 magis left.

 

It's not like this system prevents bumping/reposting. It merely punishes, which is especially noticeable when used extensively. And I never meant to punish people for teleports self-cancelling due to stuff hatching or growing up.

 

 

But why on earth should *legit* cancellations be punished just because some people abuse the bumping? That's a horrible way to enforce rules, honestly, punishing everyone who is totally innocent along with the wrong-doers. And it will still *heavily* affect people who trade a lot (5 Magis left?? I can use more then that in 15 hours!).

[Kaini]

11 minutes ago, osmarks said:

The fact that the hub works doesn't mean it doesn't need additions, and you are ignoring the rules issue.

@Kaini

 

I just said it isn't finished yet, definitely needs additions, and will get improvements in the future. And that patience is a virtue.

 

My opinion is that the rules are fine the way they are. I don't see it as an issue and we're just going to disagree on that.

[49ER]

osmarks you are right, but it is better than someone having a total trade ban for what is STILL an undetermined amount of time

[49ER]

Kaini the fact that people are posting about all this and asking questions means they are not so clear cut for everyone.  

[osmarks]

1 minute ago, 49ER said:

osmarks you are right, but it is better than someone having a total trade ban for what is STILL an undetermined amount of time

For cancelling trades or bumping? That's probably allowed.

[49ER]

1 minute ago, osmarks said:

For cancelling trades or bumping? That's probably allowed.

Lol, I am not sure anymore, For whatever reason people want teleport magis disabled.

[osmarks]

2 minutes ago, Kaini said:

 

I just said it isn't finished yet, definitely needs additions, and will get improvements in the future. And that patience is a virtue.

 

My opinion is that the rules are fine the way they are. I don't see it as an issue and we're just going to disagree on that.

They are clearly not fine; they gloss over a lot of things which are banned and ignore a thing which isn't. The canonical rules are probably just what TJ09 said some time, but I don't know where the full list is and neither will most non-forumgoing traders.

 

Yes, it may eventually be improved, but I really do not understand why we got insignificant button recolors but not a vital thing like pagination.