Trading Hub Feedback

[Ruby Eyes]

And make sure each of those buttons can be pressed only once, to avoid spamming.

[StarSea]

15 hours ago, Fuzzbucket said:

DC allows people under the age of 13 with parental consent, and anyway it is a site that is very likely to attract people under that age. And the fact that a child signs up where they shouldn't and its parents didn't know is no defence for the website in law. Sock said ages ago that we have to assume under 13s are in the game and even here.

5 hours ago, Fuzzbucket said:

 

When my grandson signed up - years ago, I asked a mod if he could play - who told me it was OK as long as his parent said OK. She did; he did. He was 11 at the time.

 

There is in fact at least one member here who actually refers in posts to the fact that she is 12 years old. (she's probably 13 by now - just checked, but certainly wasn't when she posted that.)

DC's registration page page says "I agree that I am 13 years of age or older.", and has for at least a few years. I'm aware it used to allow underage users by requesting parental consent, which it no longer does and now requires all new users be 13+.

 

That member, I'm sure I know who you're talking about, should not have signed up and was on DC in violation of the ToS and COPPA. I don't know how many years ago your grandson signed up, but if you were to ask today, the staff should outright tell you no regardless of if his parents gave consent or not.

 

And if sites didn't allow messaging on their site just because users under 13 have probably signed up in violation of the ToS, no site would ever have messaging or anything. It's the staff's duty to ban and remove the information submitted by a user when they find out that they are under 13, it's not their duty to bubble-wrap everything just in case users violate the ToS. The ToS is there for a reason. If DC staff are made aware of a user being under 13 and don't do anything about it, then yes, DC has a problem.

 

 

To try and keep the information available, these links are also relevant:

15 hours ago, Whirlaway said:

Aren't the rules that DC isn't for anyone under 13 though? So COPPA has nothing to do with it? TJ more or less said it's due to a non-competing clause in his actual day job, in this thread.  https://forums.dragcave.net/topic/183317-messaging-system-on-dragcave-website/?do=findComment&comment=9724816 and https://forums.dragcave.net/topic/183317-messaging-system-on-dragcave-website/?do=findComment&comment=9725141

 

Edited August 2, 2018 by StarSea

[olympe]

3 hours ago, Ruby Eyes said:

And make sure each of those buttons can be pressed only once, to avoid spamming.

Definitely. If pressed once, they should be greyed out, too. Or disappear altogether. 

[Kirono]

7 hours ago, olympe said:

Definitely. If pressed once, they should be greyed out, too. Or disappear altogether. 

 

Maybe grayed out to let you know you *did* "say" something to the other person.

 

ALSO it'd be nice, if an "Accept" button is greyed out to know whose issue it is (ie: You're Full. They're Full).

 

Turns out some muffin offered on my egg but is full on eggs?! Like why? I double checked my scroll to make sure I wasn't the issue.

[49ER]

Question on reporting...there is somebody constantly bumping trades, pretty much every 5 or 10 minutes.  If I do report there is no place to say why I am reporting it, and most likely the trade will no longer be there by the time they look at it, because it will have been bumped with a new teleport.  So how should this be handled?

[HeatherMarie]

1 minute ago, 49ER said:

Question on reporting...there is somebody constantly bumping trades, pretty much every 5 or 10 minutes.  If I do report there is no place to say why I am reporting it, and most likely the trade will no longer be there by the time they look at it, because it will have been bumped with a new teleport.  So how should this be handled?

 

Bumping sort of has to be allowed right now, to a certain extent, since there is no pagination... But if the bumping seems unreasonable even with that in mind, like long before it's actually disappeared off the page, the best bet would probably be to PM a mod. If something can/should be done they could alert TJ.

[49ER]

I understand with the no pagination, but this is like if 5 trades came in after it, where they are nowhere near off the first page.  And I don't know who the trade mods are.

[Starscream]

Until there is some sort of flood control system, these reposts are something we have to(unfortunately) deal with. However, they should not be reported - unless they are posting stuff that does not belong in that want box. However,

I'll raise this suggestion Once again, to the powers that be. I fully understand the annoyance of this sort of frequent reposting activity is causing.

 

Any mod can deal with the trades issue.

[HeatherMarie]

Not sure if there are any 'official' trade mods, but PMing a Global Mod would probably work. LadyLyzar and purpledragonclaw seem to be the most active of the Global Mods. 

 

edit: Ninja'ed!

Edited August 4, 2018 by HeatherMarie

[olympe]

Why do you think we need to bump if something falls off the first page? We have filters. So, why not implement a rule (until pagination is a thing) that forbids trade bumping for stuff that hasn't fallen off the first page when filtered by breed?

[Aalbiel]

4 hours ago, olympe said:

Why do you think we need to bump if something falls off the first page? We have filters. So, why not implement a rule (until pagination is a thing) that forbids trade bumping for stuff that hasn't fallen off the first page when filtered by breed?

 

Not everything is valued by breed.

 

For instance, yesterday I was trading an all-number code. If I was depending on people to filter by breed, it would've very quickly fallen into oblivion because the breed itself isn't what people would be looking for. The only filter they could use to find it is the free text one, for instance by searching "code". Who's to judge when it's fallen off the first page when the free-text filter is used? It would completely depend on which search you've entered. Same for SA-kin, prizekin, etc. No to banning bumps, unless of course pagination is implemented (pagination please, already, jfc), then fine.

[Soulsborne]

On 7/30/2018 at 11:32 PM, HeatherMarie said:

 

 But you can? You don't have to own a breed to filter it, just unlock the egg in the Encyclopedia by viewing 5 (I think it's 5?). That's fairly easy to do for everything except the rarest breeds, and even things like Dinos and Chickens are relatively easy to find if you spend some time in hatcheries.

 

As a kind of newish player I wanted to say "thank you" because I honestly didn't know that. I assumed after a while that the trade feature wasn't for things like gold dragons otherwise I should have been able to sort for them.. now I know how to get that to work also already tested it with 5 eggs from a hatchery site and violà - gold dragons available for filtering, yay!

[DarkEternity]

3 hours ago, Soulsborne said:

 

As a kind of newish player I wanted to say "thank you" because I honestly didn't know that. I assumed after a while that the trade feature wasn't for things like gold dragons otherwise I should have been able to sort for them.. now I know how to get that to work also already tested it with 5 eggs from a hatchery site and violà - gold dragons available for filtering, yay!

You can also use the front page of the trading hub itself to unlock stuff by clicking the view link from the lineages, it can help with stuff that's harder to find on hatcheries.

 

For neglected dragon egg entries which are hard to get, I think I got mine mostly from dead eggshells from the encyclopedia thread on the forum and discord, those were hardish but not too bad. 

[HeatherMarie]

7 hours ago, Aalbiel said:

 

Not everything is valued by breed.

 

For instance, yesterday I was trading an all-number code. If I was depending on people to filter by breed, it would've very quickly fallen into oblivion because the breed itself isn't what people would be looking for. The only filter they could use to find it is the free text one, for instance by searching "code". Who's to judge when it's fallen off the first page when the free-text filter is used? It would completely depend on which search you've entered. Same for SA-kin, prizekin, etc. No to banning bumps, unless of course pagination is implemented (pagination please, already, jfc), then fine.

 

This is very true. Frankly I think it's just not reasonable to expect people to filter by *every single breed* one at a time just to see if there might be something they want. Often people aren't looking for one or two specific breeds, and even searching the free text filter can be very iffy if you aren't sure *exactly* what you are looking for (and even if you are, the filter isn't all that great, since searching for 'ice' can also bring up 'nice' and such....). This is, of course, where pagination would be a *huge* help, but until then I really don't think banning bumps is a good idea in general, since it is a very real concern that once your trade falls off the main page it really might never be seen.

[Whirlaway]

I still strongly believe that Trading Hub rules should, very logically,  be put on Trading Hub's main page for all people to see instead of the few who use forums. Very few people use forums in comparison to those that play the game and it is downright rude to ban people for rules they don't know exist because no one has placed them where they belong which is on the Trading Hub page, not here on the forums only.

 

 

[Starscream]

2 minutes ago, Whirlaway said:

I still strongly believe that Trading Hub rules should, very logically,  be put on Trading Hub's main page for all people to see instead of the few who use forums. Very few people use forums in comparison to those that play the game and it is downright rude to ban people for rules they don't know exist because no one has placed them where they belong which is on the Trading Hub page, not here on the forums only.

 

 

 

this is on the page when you add your text before submitting your trade: It actually is there and is clear.

 

 

Quote

 

Wants

Enter a message to help others understand what types of offers you are looking for.

Warning: Misuse of this text may result in disciplinary action, such as loss of ability to create public trades.

 

 

[SHODAN]

Misuse seems like it can be very subjective?

"Hey, X, I'd like to accept but it looks like you are locked."
I personally don't think this is a problem, naming someone directly and giving them a reminder is helpful -- it is VERY easy to get egg/scroll locked in this game, and if they are offering on a trade that one has then they obviously want what's on the trade and probably don't realize they are locked. Though, you want to make sure that you aren't the one that is locked either. From what I hear this constitutes as "misuse" because you aren't allowed to interact with someone on an individual level (or otherwise, considered as harassment)? Correct me if I'm wrong, please, because I wouldn't have known this because I never use the forums.

Since the Trading Hub descriptions are so small and sometimes you might want a variety of things, like trading for specific prize lines or lineages, you basically need an image or link for this which I can't figure out is forbidden or not, unless you want to add a group to your scroll which seems... not very ideal... In the sense of just adding a "Don't be locked." to the end of your trading description can prove somewhat difficult if you are looking for several things and need to mention them all.

[Starscream]

Just now, SHODAN said:

Misuse seems like it can be very subjective?

"Hey, X, I'd like to accept but it looks like you are locked."
 

simply put, that is not a want/have.

[olympe]

And yet, that does not cover texts like...

• Want: The gold from the person whose offer I accidentally rejected.
• Haves
• Want: 3 eggs; can't take eggs for another 2 hours

All of these could be considered user-to-user interaction and don't exactly meet the rules (save for the first).

 

Personally, I'd say "Hey, X, I'd like to accpet but you ar locked." is a want. It says quite clearly "I want what you're offering NOW!" 'And very much so.

 

And because of that - and the fact that even you mods don't agree on all points, we need rules and guidelines. As "easy to understand" as it is, at easy it is to disagree on what's acceptable and what isn't.

[SHODAN]

Okay, again, not the best example but one I can think of people using, and understandable.

But is it acceptable if you say something like that, but then add your wants at the end (assuming they fit) incase someone else comes along?

Also -- let's say you make a trade and you are looking for something a bit pricy. You add something to the end like, "I can add X and Y when they are off CD." Assuming this trade already has 4 dragons in it, can you accept an offer from someone on the first trade, and then have a trade later mentioning them (and again, another set of aproppriate wants) and still be okay?

Think something like, "H: All CB rares. W: 2g prize. Can add X and Y when off CD..."
Other trade later, "H: X and Y, user Z if you want these, otherwise I want A and B"
Also imagine if you don't directly name the user but say "the person who..." okay or no?

Should this situation be avoided altogether? I would say something like this is best suited to a forum post though, and an element of trust would be needed for trading hub stuff, but still.

Also finally, blank trades? I see them personally as "offer whatever." Are they fine or no?

Edited August 5, 2018 by SHODAN

[DarkEternity]

Could examples of the text that have gotten people banned be placed on the trading hub? I assumed that racism and insulting people were what counted as misuse. 

Edited August 4, 2018 by DarkEternity

[Lucere]

1 minute ago, DarkEternity said:

Could examples of the text that have gotten people banned be placed on the trading hub? I assumed that racism and insulting people were what counted as misuse. 

 

The things people have been banned for so far include song lyrics, and for using the want-box as direct communication (as in something like "hey, username I'd like to accept but you're egglocked").

[DarkEternity]

1 minute ago, Lucere said:

 

The things people have been banned for so far include song lyrics, and for using the want-box as direct communication (as in something like "hey, username I'd like to accept but you're egglocked").

Are we still allowed to link simple short lists of dragons we want from external websites, put haves in the wants box or link dragon groups containing mates we want? Also is asking for ious banned like it is on the forum?

[Lucere]

Just now, DarkEternity said:

Are we still allowed to link simple short lists of dragons we want from external websites, put haves in the wants box or link dragon groups containing mates we want? Also is asking for ious banned like it is on the forum?

 

Apparently, links are banned, so I wouldn't put a link to anything in the want-box (even if it's to a DC group).

 

Haves in the want-box seems ok but I'm not 100% sure. I have seen a mod do it, but some other users have argued that a haves in the want-box would still constitute as "misuse" so I'm not sure. To be safe, I'd probably do something like "Have: CB Mint; Want: CB Aria" rather than just "Have: CB Mint"

 

And not sure about IOUs. Probably not a good idea since it's banned on the forums. 

[HeatherMarie]

4 hours ago, SHODAN said:

Okay, again, not the best example but one I can think of people using, and understandable.

But is it acceptable if you say something like that, but then add your wants at the end (assuming they fit) incase someone else comes along?

Also -- let's say you make a trade and you are looking for something a bit pricy. You add something to the end like, "I can add X and Y when they are off CD." Assuming this trade already has 4 dragons in it, can you accept an offer from someone on the first trade, and then have a trade later mentioning them (and again, another set of aproppriate wants) and still be okay?

Think something like, "H: All CB rares. W: 2g prize. Can add X and Y when off CD..."
Other trade later, "H: X and Y, user Z if you want these, otherwise I want A and B"
Also imagine if you don't directly name the user but say "the person who..." okay or no?

Should this situation be avoided altogether? I would say something like this is best suited to a forum post though, and an element of trust would be needed for trading hub stuff, but still.

Also finally, blank trades? I see them personally as "offer whatever." Are they fine or no?

 

I'm not sure the whole 'adding x and y' would be beneficial in general? I mean I have no clue if it would be considered 'misuse', but I don't think it'd actually do much good, personally. Since there is no direct communication on the game there is no way to communicate whether the other person actually wants the 'x and y' that you offered to add, there is no guarantee that user Z would even see your note to them on a completely separate trade, and in general it just seems like trying to find a loophole for the limit on how many things you can offer in a trade. I'd much rather see the ability to offer more things on a trade then see people attempting to get around that limitation with something like that.

 

Blank wants have been talked about before, in general I don't think there is much that can/should be done there. Some people don't really know what they want, or just want to see what they might get offered, or whatever. It might be better if they actually put 'offer whatever', but if they don't oh well. Any sort of mandatory-want text, ie forcing people to put *something* in the Want box in order to make the trade in the first place, will only lead to complete nonsense in the Want box in order to fill that requirement. I've seen it elsewhere, when there is a mandatory text box there will often just be people going 'this is my mandatory text' or 'obligatory text here' or whatever. You can't really force people to actually put down what they want.

 

4 hours ago, DarkEternity said:

Are we still allowed to link simple short lists of dragons we want from external websites, put haves in the wants box or link dragon groups containing mates we want? Also is asking for ious banned like it is on the forum?

 

I would think that IOUs would be banned simply because there is no possible way to *do* an IOU on the game itself. In order to communicate to the other person about the IOU it would have to be on the forums anyways, so there is really no reason to talk about IOUs in the Want section on the game itself.