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TJ09

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The really crazy thing about not allowing PMs for further negotiation is that meanwhile they expect people to be on the forums to know about that rule. Double standards much?

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This is getting weird, if not ridiculous.

 

What we need:

  1. Show wishlists. Why not make it acceptable to link to the wishlist thread on these forums, as well as to groups on our scroll? No other links allowed, only to DC and DCF?
  2. Ask for PMs on forum. No mentioning of username. If your username on DC isn't the same as your DCF name, name the first dragon(s) on your scroll "Username on DCF is my_name_here" - or any variation thereof. (Ideally, we would be able to put up a link to our forum profile on the top of our scroll. Since we'd have to put the link there ourselves, this is clearly opt-in.)
    • Why not mentioning usernames in trades? Simple. We have trolls with lots of bots. Imagine what happens if one of them put in "PM Starscream on forums for details!" I'm 99.9999% sure Starscream would not be amused, as she does not welcome unsolicited PMs.
    • If we can't do this directly, there's still the option for bred eggs to have the parents renamed. "Contact my-name-here on DCF" and "my-name-here accepts IOUs"
  3. Cancel trades occasionally, but with strict limits to re-posting. Flood control might not be enough, though.
    • Why? We have trolls with lots of bots. Imagine a couple of trolls who keep the trading hub hostage by posting any kind of random egg. "Want: CB gold. Will re-post every 10 seconds."
    • Why? Because we don't have pagination. Plus, pagination does not help all that much if it only shows the top 20 trades, which get re-posted every minute or so. Being able to scroll down might be more useful, really.
  4. Pagination. I know you know. But it's true anyway.
  5. A clear set of rules on-site regarding what is and isn't acceptable in trading notes ("Wants").

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I agree with all that except for the weird hoops to jump through regarding putting up your forum username.

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Maybe in account settings you could literally have a forum username field, in the same way we have a scroll username field on our forum profiles we can fill in and have displayed. 

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I'd prefer a proper central approach to sticking that info in every trade, but what about people with hidden scrolls?

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3 minutes ago, osmarks said:

what about people with hidden scrolls?

Nothing about them. Not everyone wants a connection made between their scroll and their forum account.

 

The scroll name field in the forums is for moderator eyes only. To make your scroll name known to others, you need to add it to your signature or post it somewhere.

Edited by Ruby Eyes

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Just now, Ruby Eyes said:

Nothing about them. Not everyone wants a connection made between their scroll and their forum account.

You may want to hide your scroll and not your account.

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15 minutes ago, olympe said:

This is getting weird, if not ridiculous.

 

What we need:

  1. Show wishlists. Why not make it acceptable to link to the wishlist thread on these forums, as well as to groups on our scroll? No other links allowed, only to DC and DCF?
  2. Ask for PMs on forum. No mentioning of username. If your username on DC isn't the same as your DCF name, name the first dragon(s) on your scroll "Username on DCF is my_name_here" - or any variation thereof. (Ideally, we would be able to put up a link to our forum profile on the top of our scroll. Since we'd have to put the link there ourselves, this is clearly opt-in.)
    • Why not mentioning usernames in trades? Simple. We have trolls with lots of bots. Imagine what happens if one of them put in "PM Starscream on forums for details!" I'm 99.9999% sure Starscream would not be amused, as she does not welcome unsolicited PMs.
    • If we can't do this directly, there's still the option for bred eggs to have the parents renamed. "Contact my-name-here on DCF" and "my-name-here accepts IOUs"
  3. Cancel trades occasionally, but with strict limits to re-posting. Flood control might not be enough, though.
    • Why? We have trolls with lots of bots. Imagine a couple of trolls who keep the trading hub hostage by posting any kind of random egg. "Want: CB gold. Will re-post every 10 seconds."
    • Why? Because we don't have pagination. Plus, pagination does not help all that much if it only shows the top 20 trades, which get re-posted every minute or so. Being able to scroll down might be more useful, really.
  4. Pagination. I know you know. But it's true anyway.
  5. A clear set of rules on-site regarding what is and isn't acceptable in trading notes ("Wants").

 

. "Want: CB gold. Will re-post every 10 seconds."    trolls who post that, will be banned/blocked in short order.

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Enter a message to help others understand what types of offers you are looking for. Please do not include links and do not ask users to contact you directly.

 

FIXED.

 

If your users feel that your rules are not saying what you thought they were saying, maybe some clarification is in order. And right now, it is NOT clear from the rules as written that haves are okay, that links to the specific kinds of dragons you are looking for are not okay, and that asking for PMs for various trade reasons are is not okay. It doesn't have to be a huge long list that no one will read.

 

Also, please put a warning system in place instead of just instantly banning people who thought something would be allowed that wasn't. 

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We definitely need a clear set of rules in the hub and I'm not sure why the hub didn't get them in the first place since rules are incredibly important. Right now it's just "don't misuse and we aren't going to tell you what things are misuse just figure it out based off of who has been banned". Which, I know is most likely not what the original intent was, but that's what it's become. I've had some debates with others over what exactly falls under the category of misuse which is enough proof that it's too up to user interpretation until a mod steps in. I've even seen questions and confusion about what is reportable. Rules need to be incredibly clear and not vague, otherwise you get people banned who had no idea they did anything wrong.

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58 minutes ago, Starscream said:

 

. "Want: CB gold. Will re-post every 10 seconds."    trolls who post that, will be banned/blocked in short order.

So they only write "Want: CB gold." And repost every 10 seconds. No rule broken.

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A bit of a longer message box, say 250-300 characters would probably let most people fit in a decent sized want list without resorting to a url to a list or 'please pm for other offers'. I've seen a number of people confused by lineage terminology and further shortening most species names down to two letters would be a puzzle for a lot of people. Sure it would take up a bit more screen realestate (and here I must post the obligatory: pagination pleaseeee) but a little more room never hurt, please, some of the dragon names are really long like red tailed wyrm and you can't shorten it down without confusing everyone. 

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7 minutes ago, olympe said:

So they only write "Want: CB gold." And repost every 10 seconds. No rule broken.

 

This! Seriously Starscream, sometimes it seems you're jumping through hoops to discount simple logic. What troll would post "lol I'm a troll I'm going to flood the trading hub" in their wants. That's bringing up a point that's not even going to happen. Please stick to the actual points people are making, I think this one was fairly clear and made by several people.

Edited by Aalbiel

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Also what if scripts had a bsa that enlaged the wants box slightly?

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1 minute ago, DarkEternity said:

Also what if scripts had a bsa that enlaged the wants box slightly?

I would prefer not to have important features locked behind a BSA.

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16 minutes ago, LibbyLishly said:

Enter a message to help others understand what types of offers you are looking for. Please do not include links and do not ask users to contact you directly.

 

FIXED.

 

If your users feel that your rules are not saying what you thought they were saying, maybe some clarification is in order. And right now, it is NOT clear from the rules as written that haves are okay, that links to the specific kinds of dragons you are looking for are not okay, and that asking for PMs for various trade reasons are is not okay. It doesn't have to be a huge long list that no one will read.

 

Also, please put a warning system in place instead of just instantly banning people who thought something would be allowed that wasn't. 

I think that simple addition to the rules would insure that people who don't intend to misuse the message will understand. Of course there will always be some who will come up with something that isn't covered and then say . . . "but you never said we couldn't..." but I think those would be mostly people who are trying to squirm around the rules, not trying to comply with them.

 

It is obvious that the wording as it exists is not as clear as you seem to think it is and needs to be changed.

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1 minute ago, DarkEternity said:

Also what if scripts had a bsa that enlaged the wants box slightly?

I think it should be adjusted in the hub, not tied to whether or not people collect a certain dragon.

 

While I can see the push for no conversation in the want boxes, it is really confusing to see just now that people can't ask for people to PM them when the general consensus is to take trade talk to the forum anyway.

 

Honestly though, I don't like how people are herded over to the forum if they want to do anything properly on the site. Either make forum use optional--truly--or merge the site and forums like other pet sites do (under a single login). We also really need clear rules on the site at this point instead of "Oh, yeah. This is banable too. Just now. Because it is."

 

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51 minutes ago, LibbyLishly said:

Enter a message to help others understand what types of offers you are looking for. Please do not include links and do not ask users to contact you directly.

 

FIXED.

 

If your users feel that your rules are not saying what you thought they were saying, maybe some clarification is in order. And right now, it is NOT clear from the rules as written that haves are okay, that links to the specific kinds of dragons you are looking for are not okay, and that asking for PMs for various trade reasons are is not okay. It doesn't have to be a huge long list that no one will read.

 

Also, please put a warning system in place instead of just instantly banning people who thought something would be allowed that wasn't. 

Yes to this.

 

To be honest I can say I have seen PLENTY of times Lately where people got their trade privileges revoked when they didn't really understand what the rules WERE.

 

That isn't right IMO. And while, as some have said, their will be those looking for loopholes...I think dealing with those would be EASIER ,not harder, if we make the rules clearer. No links or asking for PMs is a pretty easy thing to add to it and would cut back on the issues we are having with this, I think. I hate to see people BANNED because they just plain didn't KNOW. Don't get me wrong, rules and consequences for breaking them DO need to be in place.

 

As Libby said, It doesn't have to be huge and complicated.

 

It just needs to be CLEAR. ESPECIALLY if the consequences for a violation are insta-perma-ban.

Edited by JavaTigress

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27 minutes ago, JavaTigress said:

To be honest I can say I have seen PLENTY of times Lately where people got their trade privileges revoked when they didn't really understand what the rules WERE.

 

That isn't right IMO. And while, as some have said, their will be those looking for loopholes...I think dealing with those would be EASIER ,not harder, if we make the rules clearer. No links or asking for PMs is a pretty easy thing to add to it and would cut back on the issues we are having with this, I think. I hate to see people BANNED because they just plain didn't KNOW. Don't get me wrong, rules and consequences for breaking them DO need to be in place.

 

As Libby said, It doesn't have to be huge and complicated.

 

It just needs to be CLEAR. ESPECIALLY if the consequences for a violation are insta-perma-ban.

 

Yes to everything Libby and Java have said. If I'm honest, there are some of these "unsaid rules" that I dislike and/or find dumb. But I'm not here to fight the rules just because I don't like them. However the fact that you can get banned from trading for going against a rule you can't reasonably be expected to have any knowledge of is ridiculous, unfair, mind-boggling, and unbelievable.

Edited by Aalbiel

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11 minutes ago, Aalbiel said:

 

Yes to everything Libby and Java have said. If I'm honest, there are some of these "unsaid rules" that I dislike and/or find dumb. But I'm not here to fight the rules just because I don't like them. However the fact that you can get banned from trading for going against a rule you can't reasonably be expected to have any knowledge of is ridiculous, unfair, mind-boggling, and unbelievable.

Absolutely!

 

AND, after some thought, I am sort of inclined to agree with @LibbyLishly on a warn system of some kind, too.

Black and White SORT works with something simple, like dragon naming ( AND even THEN I think they deal with the particular dragon with the offensive name BEFORE doing anything blanket to a scroll?) but with something more complicated like trade? That is going to take a bit more subtlety and nuance I think. For instance I could see banning someone from using the text box feature on public trade without blocking trade entirely? AND it wouldn't NEED to be permanent. AND then if you repeatedly cause a problem.... then ban. ALL of that, of course, depending on the severity of the offense. Some thing maybe DO deserve an insta-perma-ban, do not pass go, do NOT trade dragons.

 

Seems more fair than how it works now.

Edited by JavaTigress

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2 hours ago, olympe said:

 

  1. Cancel trades occasionally, but with strict limits to re-posting. Flood control might not be enough, though.
    • Why? We have trolls with lots of bots. Imagine a couple of trolls who keep the trading hub hostage by posting any kind of random egg. "Want: CB gold. Will re-post every 10 seconds."
    • Why? Because we don't have pagination. Plus, pagination does not help all that much if it only shows the top 20 trades, which get re-posted every minute or so. Being able to scroll down might be more useful, really.

 

I'm staying out of the 'rules/bans' convo for now, but I once again have to say *please* do not punish and limit legit cancellations. There is a huge difference between a troll reposting repeatedly just for the sake of it, and someone legitimately canceling and reposting for a ton of other possible reasons, and if there is going to be any sort of limit on reposting there *needs* to be that distinction. So please no 'strict limits' for completely legitimate cancels/reposts, otherwise the hub is going to be a heck of a lot less useful to those of us who already use it properly.

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Reposting this in thread to display how non-evident the current "don't misuse wants" are, even taking it literally as just asking for which dragons you want.

 

Things that are "Wants ("[helping] others understand what types of offers you are looking for")" but are still prohibited:

  • Off-site links to a list of offers you want.

  • On-site links to lineages or groups of dragons as examples of offers you want.

  • IOUs of dragons not currently available that you want, such as holidays.

  • A specific egg that is not on your scroll that you want.

Things that are also prohibited, despite the fact that the forums are official and some people keep saying to use them over an actual in-site mechanic:

  • PM links to forum
  • putting your forum contact name
  • saying you would like to be contacted on forums
  • saying you would not like to be contacted on forum
  • literally anything connecting the official DC site to the official DC forums

If there's official policy that you don't want the forums and the site even visibly connected because of job reasons just say something and stick "no contact info or requesting contact allowed" in rules.

Edited by Shadowdrake

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11 minutes ago, HeatherMarie said:

 

I'm staying out of the 'rules/bans' convo for now, but I once again have to say *please* do not punish and limit legit cancellations. There is a huge difference between a troll reposting repeatedly just for the sake of it, and someone legitimately canceling and reposting for a ton of other possible reasons, and if there is going to be any sort of limit on reposting there *needs* to be that distinction. So please no 'strict limits' for completely legitimate cancels/reposts, otherwise the hub is going to be a heck of a lot less useful to those of us who already use it properly.

Yeah, AND it would be NICE if our trading history included if a person declined? 


That way I would KNOW not to repost?

 

Also YES PLEASE to pagination or some other way of more easily browsing trades?

Edited by JavaTigress

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I think TJ's job-related conflict has to do with not setting up a scroll to scroll communications system as I understand it.  But asking for people to PM you and your forum name is _____, should not be a conflict with his job.  

So I would ask that you reconsider that ruling.  This new feature is supposed to be fun, and add to the enjoyment of playing DC.  And even though I have asked many times and many ways, are the bans permanent, temporary or is there a way to appeal those and if so, how?

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I'd like a way to see ALL the trades on the Trade Hub. As it is, my trades probably go for days without being seen. I had a CB SILVER up for offering on and I only wanted some Siyats, but by the time it was apparently visible (at least to my friend here on DC) the STUNNED hatchie had began to grow again and had less than an hour to mature. Why can't we see multiple pages? If there is a way to see more trades, please let me know! It's frustrating having no one seeing your trade until the hatchie is almost grown or the egg has already hatched, canceling the trade.

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