Release several new "real" rares

[Saami]

The biomes shuffle every 5 minutes and the eggs appear. Otherwise there would not be a bunch of uncommon and rares in the trading threads.

Well, yes I'm aware that the biomes shuffle, but there's a reason people are still wanting to do something about caveblockers. The common eggs generated don't just disappear into the ether. There's a reason we even still use the term 'caveblockers'. Adding rares isn't going to make people pick up the super commons anymore than the rares we already have do.

 

I'm not saying we shouldn't have more super rares. I'm actually pretty neutral since I - like a lot of older players - don't even hunt for rares much anymore. I'm just pointing out that adding them won't help if the cave is still moving like a snail.

[Natayah]

When people say they want to "see more rares", I am under the assumption it isn't just Gold/Silver level of "rare". I'm not sure if the OP meant the number 20 as literal or not. I figured it wasn't.

 

My support is that, in the future, I would like to see some more dragons in the Xeno to Copper to Blusang to Pyral Alms to Silver level of rarity released too. I have no specific number or percentage to normal eggs in mind. I also am not greatly vested in if this idea is or isn't implemented or even when.

 

It's a dragon pixel game and TJ can do whatever he likes. I'm not sure why arguments are even entering this discussion about if he does or doesn't "listen" to players. Ideas are posted, people respond, life goes on.

 

Comparing TJ to GTA, a multi millions or billions dollar backed company is weird to me. IDK I'm not a gamer.

 

I have never been able to catch silvers and golds and never will. I can trade for Blusangs Coppers and Xenos and that ilk. I do try to gift to people who didn't have those or don't have a small set that I feel they should have. Like people have done for me.

[olympe]

But if you do not hunt or breed rares now, why should  you care if there are more??? As in: I cannot use it, so nobody should???

 

ETA:

I think that the people opposing new rares are forgetting something quite important.Nowadays, they cannot catch Golds and Silvers, understood. But during the initial release, not only the fast catchers will have a chance at the new rares, everybody will. And there's a big difference between the quantity of Golds and Silvers dropping today and the quantity that will be available during the release. And, based on experience, I would bet that the rarity will not be announced.

Trust me, you have no idea how rare drops work. I was there for trios - and managed not a single CB in the first couple of months. Competition was very fierce, I was an absolute noob, and the drops mixed in with older eggs very quickly.

 

I was also there for the release of the nebulas (and BBW,hellfires and sunsongs), and although they're not rares, they acted like rares due to TJ fiddling with the ratios. Despite really trying to catch them (as, once again, I knew them from the DR section), I got only on on their release date (April 1). My 2nd CB is from two months later, my third CB nebula is from end of June, my fourth from end of September. It took me almost a year of regular cave hunting to catch CB nebula number five. And this is a common, after all! So much for catching during a release.

Blusangs were pretty bad, too. Not quite as bad, IMHO, but still.

 

I was there for coppers, too. They weren't quite as bad on day 1, but that was more thanks to the nature of the release (1 dragon every day for 1 week) because people had their scrolls full when they finally appeared. (Was it on day 4?) For other releases, people will empty their scrolls, though, and keep catching instead of waiting until they unlock.

I was smiling while reading someone that is opposing new rares but got her Coppers during the initial release. The best opportunity to collect un-commons has been when they were released: Coppers and Pyralspites are an obvious example. I'm willing to bet that my "unproven assumption" is quite more proven than the opposite assumption.

Not really. Coppers don't really count because of the nature of the 7-day release. When you get two new eggs every day (1 male, 1 female) and suddenly there are three new sprites, you're out of luck unless you decide to sacrifice another breed. I was lucky on two counts: I decided to breed the hybrids (hellhorses) from the previous day way later, so I had my scroll empty (there was that hunch that the next day, we'd get something rare-to-uncommon) and I knew the copper egg descriptions on sight thanks to having watched them being worked on in DR. I knew they were coppers (=metals!), I knew they were supposed to be uncommon, and I knew about user-driven rarity (especially when "shiny!" is involved). Three things that made me grab a pair of each ASAP instead of hatching what I had and catching later. Thanks to other people making different decisions, there was very little competition.

 

All those three examples are mere uncommons. Think about it. And tell me again that, if a true rare gets released, "everybody has a chance of catching theirs early on". It's the same kind of chance everybdoy has of catching their golds and silvers. For some of us, it's no chance at all.

 

 

Btw, the reason I don't hunt for rares (=golds, silvers) is that I know from experience that I won't get them anyway, if I even see them at all. I don't breed them (much) because of the rotten chance for success, which doesn't get any better if you have very little breeding stock available in the first place. Despite that, I love the sprites and would love to get more and use them in lineages and all. The sad truth is that it isn't possible for me to catch more, and not feasible to invest in rare lineages. Which is very frustrating to me, as I feel left out of a portion of the game that involves some of the most gorgeous sprites on site. And I don't want more of that frustration, of that feeling of being left out. And I really don't want to be left out of an even bigger portion of the game.

 

I would love more rares in this game. Not one or two, but four or five or more real rares. I don't see this as something that no one will be able to get; I see it as another goal, another challenge, another reason to keep playing this game. You don't have to collect rares. You don't have to try. But for those of us who appreciate the challenge... Why not?

That's very generous of you to concede that I don't have to try. But ask yourself: Why wouldn't I want to have some of the new shinies (which people want to be shiny and spectacular, or they wouldn't make sense as rares)? Of course, I'd want them. But, being both rare to begin with and shiny (which leads to high demand and ratios getting out of whack), I won't be able to get them anyway. Which would leave me out of another part of the game. I don't want to be left out. I want to collect all sprites with at least 4 CBs of each breed (for lineage purposes). I want to be able to breed my own 3rd gen checkers. That's part of my play style. Adding more rares (which I won't be able to get) will only add to my frustration.

Edited May 4, 2016 by olympe

[SullenCat]

When people say they want to "see more rares", I am under the assumption it isn't just Gold/Silver level of "rare". I'm not sure if the OP meant the number 20 as literal or not. I figured it wasn't.

 

My support is that, in the future, I would like to see some more dragons in the Xeno to Copper to Blusang to Pyral Alms to Silver level of rarity released too. I have no specific number or percentage to normal eggs in mind. I also am not greatly vested in if this idea is or isn't implemented or even when.

Personally, I'm 100% okay with any release "in the Xeno to Copper to Blusang to Pyral Alms to Silver level of rarity" too. I wish for a Gold level rarity too. As in: not mutually exclusive.

Now let's look at what we got in the last year (intentionally excluding Holidays):

- March 2015: Gemshards, Plated Colossus, Striped River Dragons.

- April 2015: Anagallis.

- June 2015: Xenowyrms.

- July 2015: Spirit Wards.

- August 2015: Lunar Heralds.

- March 2016: Antareans & Sapphires.

- April 2016: Celestials.

Of all those, only the Xenos are uncommon, Lunars are common to uncommon. The others are common, try watching the biomes and count how many refreshes go by while they sit there. Not persuaded? Go browse the trading threads.

Again, I wish for Gold-level rarity. I would not complain if there were a few Xeno-to-Silver rarity releases.

 

 

 

 

 

[olympe]

Xeno rarity is fine for me, really. Silver is very borderline, as I don't usually even see them, no matter how long I hunt. Golds are so rare that I'd say CB golds are a myth if I didn't see them in trades all the time.

[SullenCat]

Trust me, you have  no idea how rare drops work. I was there for trios - and managed not a single CB in the first couple of months. Competition was very fierce, I was an absolute noob, and the drops mixed in with older eggs very quickly.

 

Blusangs were pretty bad, too. Not quite as bad, IMHO, but still.

 

I was there for coppers, too. They weren't quite as bad on day 1, but that was more thanks to the nature of the release (1 dragon every day for 1 week) because people had their scrolls full when they finally appeared.

 

All those three examples are mere uncommons. Think about it. And tell me again that, if a true rare gets released, "everybody has a chance of catching theirs early on". It's the same kind of chance everybdoy has of catching their golds and silvers. For some of us, it's no chance at all.

 

 

Btw, the reason I don't hunt for rares (=golds, silvers) is that I know from experience that I won't get them anyway, if I even see them at all. I don't breed them (much) because of the rotten chance for success, which doesn't get any better if you have very little breeding stock available in the first place. Despite that, I love the sprites and would love to get more and use them in lineages and all. The sad truth is that it isn't possible for me to catch more, and not feasible to invest in rare lineages. Which is very frustrating to me, as I feel left out of a portion of the game that involves some of the most gorgeous sprites on site. And I don't want more of that frustration, of that feeling of being left out. And I really don't want to be left out of an even bigger portion of the game.

Trust me, I've a pretty good idea how rare drops work. I was there for the Coppers. I was not a forum member but I was reading it. Once I saw TJ's post, I was betting (have witnesses) those were going to be special. Emptied my scroll and went after them. I'm still persuaded that many people got so few Coppers, not only because they didn't want to abandon the releases from the previous days and hunt for Coppers(do not forget that more people are in the biomes, more eggs are released) but also because they got two and by midnight were bouncing up and down to get the next day release. That is fully documented on the relative topic. Long story short: the Coppers are uncommon-to-rare, the eggs were available during the release, people chose to not get them.

Based on what I saw then, rares would drop significantly during a new release.

 

ETA: deleted, because that was mean.

Edited May 4, 2016 by SullenCat

[Mommy578]

So, I was thinking specifically creating a Mother's Day and Father's Day one.

[Jazeki]

Just noting that it seems a bit unrealistic to compare the ability to catch trios, blusangs, and coppers with any future rares that will be released. Trios and blusangs were released when we wad one biome. Coppers came smack in the middle of a huge multi-day release schedule so people were working with limited scroll space. Future rares should be compared to the xenowyrm and pyralspite releases if they're going to be compared at all. And even then, those weren't really meant to be rare.

 

 

Edit: I'm still in favor of the release of new rares, both real and user-driven. Just putting my two cents in concerning the "you don't understand how it works" I see going on in the thread. And now I melt back into the rest of the forums/ consider bed.

Edited May 4, 2016 by Jazeki

[olympe]

Well, when Trios were released, there were three of them. We only had one cave instead of 6 biomes, but we only had a little over 35 different eggs (including all three trios) then, compared to the 110+ we have now. (Not counting breed-only and holiday stuff for obvious reasons.) Considering that many breeds drop in more than just one biome, there isn't that much of a difference in the ratio of breeds per cave then and breeds per biome now.

 

Despite that, by the time a regular Westeuropean user gets a break to look online (late morning, around 4 AM cave time), the cave was either empty or filled with blockers. Not trios. That's 4 hours into the release. And, at least originally, trios were treated as rares, evidenced by their inabilitiy to breed with either metallics, each other, geodes and holiday dragons. (Rare x rare breeding wasn't possible back then.)

 

Xenowyrms and pyralspites cannot compare to a true rare. Their breeding rates suggest that they're way more common than golds or silvers, so it's obvious that there dropped more of them than we'd see in a regular rare drop.

 

Also, coppers were easily available during the initial drop partly because people chose not to get them. If everybody had done what we did, namely pick up 6 or 7 of them instead of merely 2, the competition would have been that much fiercer, the biomes empty that much faster, the drops mixed in with older eggs that much earlier. Which is why coppers cannot compare to a true rare. Plus, there were three different sprites to collect, which means that people had to spread out in order to get them all.

 

Same for Xenowyrms: They're merely uncommon, plus there are six of them - one in each biome. That means, for one, there's less competition because for one, people are spread out over all 6 biomes and second, because you've only get 7 egg slots to fill with 6 different kinds of eggs. A release of one rare will cause a very different situation, where everyone tries to snag 7 of that one breed. Which means more competition and more people left in the dust.

Edited May 4, 2016 by olympe

[Sir Barton]

But if you do not hunt or breed rares now, why should  you care if there are more??? As in: I cannot use it, so nobody should???

 

ETA:

I think that the people opposing new rares are forgetting something quite important.Nowadays, they cannot catch Golds and Silvers, understood. But during the initial release, not only the fast catchers will have a chance at the new rares, everybody will. And there's a big difference between the quantity of Golds and Silvers dropping today and the quantity that will be available during the release. And, based on experience, I would bet that the rarity will not be announced.

You see that argument goes both ways. You want it, so my opinion/frustration shouldn't matter?

 

I'm a collector. This is a collecting game. Creating something else that I can't collect breaks the game for me. That's why I care. And considering that releases are no longer scheduled, it's easy to miss one and thereby miss your only chance to catch that new rare.

 

Olympe has covered everything quite well so I won't rehash that. I just wanted to answer the question posted to me.

 

Edit: You want new rares for trade fodder. Since rares tend to trade for rares, those who can't catch them still will never be able to get them, so how exactly does that solve anything?

Edited May 4, 2016 by Sir Barton

[Fuzzbucket]

You see that argument goes both ways. You want it, so my opinion/frustration shouldn't matter?

 

I'm a collector. This is a collecting game. Creating something else that I can't collect breaks the game for me. That's why I care. And considering that releases are no longer scheduled, it's easy to miss one and thereby miss your only chance to catch that new rare.

 

Olympe has covered everything quite well so I won't rehash that. I just wanted to answer the question posted to me.

This, and what ADP said too. In many ways I would like all eggs to be equally common End to the nasty stock market, end to it being worth anyone's while to cheat, and a level playing field for all.

 

Now I know that's a non-starter. But as one who plays half the time in Europe and half on cave time - there is a HUGE difference in the ability to catch new releases - even though when I'm on cave time I have a VERY slow and dodgy connection. The more level one can get it for people all over the world the better. The idea that release days make life easy is only true for those who are on line for the hour or so after that releases starts - though I have noticed that TJ has been trying to fix this, and I applaud him for that.

 

I suppose there will be new rares in the end. But I can't say the prospect fills me with wild joy, and I am acutely aware I shall have to trade for them. So I don't support this one. Personally, I shall carry on trying to find that last gold CB I need...

 

Edited 4 times so far for typos...

Edited May 4, 2016 by fuzzbucket

[Obscure_Trash]

Everyone is allowed an opinion. You do not have to agree with it to respect that.

 

People are allowed to support this or not for whatever reason. Please stick to debating the topic rather than a person or insinuating they are not allowed their opinion.

[Ruby Eyes]

Personally, I shall carry on trying to find that last gold CB I need...

Will it ever be the last one though?

 

There will always be something more sought-after than everything else. If rares exist, these are usually filling that sought-after role. Otherwise, the search disperses a little, depending on people's tastes.

 

Personally, I could support this suggestion if the rare dragons in question are somewhat NOT pretty and totally unusable in lineages.

[Confused Cat]

Personally, I could support this suggestion if the rare dragons in question are somewhat NOT pretty and totally unusable in lineages.

This.

 

(I wanted to write more, but I keep deleting what I wrote because I don't want to sound too negative. I'm just afraid a new rare breed would make the game more frustrating for those who "need" CBs for their style of playing, and frustration makes me sad, and I don't like being sad.)

[Fuzzbucket]

Will it ever be the last one though?

 

There will always be something more sought-after than everything else. If rares exist, these are usually filling that sought-after role. Otherwise, the search disperses a little, depending on people's tastes.

 

Personally, I could support this suggestion if the rare dragons in question are somewhat NOT pretty and totally unusable in lineages.

Well kinda. I always wanted two pairs, and I have 1 1/2 !

 

But I like your rare nasties thought

[olympe]

There is some truth to that. If a rare was ugly, I wouldn't want it. (However, the suggestion is about a number of shiny, sparkly and overall amazing rares.) If a rare was unbreedable, I couldn't care much less. (The only unbreedables I collect are papers...) But that isn't what this suggestion is about, either.

 

Re "Will it ever be the last one, though?": Yes and no. Yes, there's a goal I really want to reach. (4 CB of each breed, 2 male + 2 female adults. The same for each color morph, like with coppers.) I certainly wouldn't scoff at an extra or two or three, but I don't feel like I *need* them. There is a difference.

[Ruby Eyes]

(However, the suggestion is about a number of shiny, sparkly and overall amazing rares.)

Is it? I must have missed that part in the opening post. "Amazingly ugly" could also fit that bill though.

 

If a rare was unbreedable, I couldn't care much less. (The only unbreedables I collect are papers...) But that isn't what this suggestion is about, either.

Neither was mine - I just said "unusable in lineages" which doesn't mean unbreedable (then I'd have said so) but rather unpleasant enough that nobody - or not too many people, at least - would feel inclined to make checkers or somesuch with them, and thus be sad about not being able to get them.

[pinkgothic]

I think that the people opposing new rares are forgetting something quite important.Nowadays, they cannot catch Golds and Silvers, understood. But during the initial release, not only the fast catchers will have a chance at the new rares, everybody will. And there's a big difference between the quantity of Golds and Silvers dropping today and the quantity that will be available during the release. And, based on experience, I would bet that the rarity will not be announced.

 

While I get what you're trying to say, I feel that if we want to improve the cave, we should consider the long-term effects, not something that may or may not be true for a handful of days as the suggestion first comes into effect. Otherwise, in this case, it seems you're essentially arguing for the scenario presented in Could there be a Metals only event? and to me it makes about as much sense - people who aren't there for the relative bounty will (rather arbitrarily) have to struggle. That doesn't just include people who are playing at the time who choose not to turn up; it also includes anyone who joins the game in later months, entirely by merit of their join date. (This is also true for CB holidays, of course - so, for completion's sake, note that I support making past CB holidays available in some way.)

 

That said, many people who were here for the copper release didn't get their share of CBs - but it's difficult to view that in an objective light, since it was in the middle of daily releases of what otherwise were commons, and a lot of people did not have egg slots and thought they could get them later. As such, that was a fairly unique situation.

 

Generally speaking, I'm admittedly a little aghast about this suggestion. I'm not sure if people are supporting it because a lot of us have hit the point where we're willing to try anything or because many people that do are players who want a challenge in their Dragon Cave gameplay, but I do emphatically not want to inflict this on the mid-casual, lineage-interested, completionist-collector players of Dragon Cave (i.e. people who want at least one of every sprite, but who, while steady players who keep track of the game, don't get on Dragon Cave every day (barring unusual circumstances)). It sounds like a complete disaster for them.

 

To perhaps explain where I'm coming from:

 

I have 'my share' of CB golds and CB silvers and it breaks my heart that other people who want them and have been playing for years don't, even with whatever magic changed in 2013-ish and made them more plentiful. I refuse to collect any more CB metallics for myself because they're so scarce that I would feel like a complete jerk to take even one more, even if it would sometimes be convenient. I can catch CB metallics (rarely, as befits their regrettably intended state, but I can), I could probably catch whatever new rares you want to throw at me. It would be tedious and annoying and not increase my enjoyment of the game (I am not playing this game for a challenge), but I could do it and I would.

 

Others will not be so lucky.

 

If the underlying problem you want to solve is that the trade market is missing a value mid-section which would make unobtainables more obtainable, I would much rather discuss see species that are not obtainable becoming easier to obtain, such as releasing CB prizes to the cave, removing hard-coded rarity, or the likes. (Emphasis on "or the likes", there are lots of suggestions about it and none of them are perfect solutions. Not perfect, but better than this.)

 

This strikes me as especially important because if this does end up having the effect that more (and different) people have rares to trade, then the prices of unobtainables will likely just adjust accordingly, really. As in, for example, instead of asking a CB actual rare for a 2G prize, people will ask for a whole set of CB rares, so the effort you need to invest is about the same.

 

(For completion's sake: 2G prizes and comparable things often do not go for CB rares at all, since CB prize owners usually have their share of CB rares very quickly. That said, if one is a CB prize owner, one must either be very low-key about ones prize and what one wishes in return, or one has to demand something that is objectively difficult to obtain, simply because as a prize owner, one can only produce so many 2Gs - so it makes sense to jack up the publicly visible price so you that the interest is manageable. Otherwise you constantly have to turn people down because your dragon is on breeding cooldown, which I imagine is not at all fun. In other words, the scarcity of the prize dragons is the bottleneck (even with the last raffle's increase in their numbers).)

 

(Also for completion's sake: 2G prizes of course aren't the only interesting thing out there. They're just the most obvious example that comes to mind.)

 

There is some truth to that. If a rare was ugly, I wouldn't want it. (However, the suggestion is about a number of shiny, sparkly and overall amazing rares.) If a rare was unbreedable, I couldn't care much less. (The only unbreedables I collect are papers...) But that isn't what this suggestion is about, either.

 

Keep in mind how golds used to look. While some people got really attached to them (which I imagine will always happen), the sprites had some serious issues and didn't fit into the overall look-and-feel of the other sprites, with their second gold outline, the heraldic design, the flat shading, anatomy issues, not particularly sparkly goldness (a rather dusty colour, really), et cetera.

 

I actually literally wasn't collecting them for a while because of that. Subjectively, I frankly found them really ugly (sorry to the people who like them T_T). As such, purely for myself, I wasn't fussed about them being rare, it didn't impact me, and it 'felt' fair to have a species that I didn't at all want on my scroll also be unobtainable. (Nonetheless, as far as suggestions for the cave went, I did not want them to stay as rare as they were back then, because others did want to collect them, because they have a different play-style.)

 

(Essentially, while I feel 'ugliness' would be a good thing for new rares, if we must have them, I would still argue against new rares.)

 

That said, if they're so ugly they don't 'look rare', you have the CB Almandine Pyralspite effect, where the species is objectively super rare but almost no one is willing to treat them that way in trades, because it feels like a bug (as it, in fact, turned out to be) or like a mysterious temporary affliction.

 

tl;dr:

 

I am not a sprite-completionist player.

I can catch CB rares (sometimes).

I acknowledge that I am a player who pours an exceptional amount of time into this game compared to the majority of the player base (which is true for a lot of forum goers).

 

As such, I have no reason to believe this suggestion would make me, personally, suffer more than annoyance.

 

I also have reason to believe this suggestion would make the lives of other players more difficult. Specifically, players that are sprite-completionist*, lineage-interested** but not as deeply dedicated to the game as the average person who takes part in game suggestion discussions.

 

As such, I would really rather not see this.

 

Footnote:

 

I would be OK with this if:

 

- I am wrong about how frustrating this would be for most people, especially those who aren't partaking in this suggestion. (Note: This is not a point of argument; as in, you can't convince me of it unless you're TJ and have convincing site statistics. I'm not looking to be convinced about this. I'm saying I could easily be wrong, and that if reality looks that way that I absolutely don't think you should listen to me over what reality tells you, because I would not want that.)

 

or

 

- The mathematics of the ratios works in such a way that means the suggested increase in the number of hardcoded CB rares would somehow objectively have a feedback effect that would make each individual rare at least an order of magnitude easier to obtain than CB silvers are at time of writing. (In other words, someone who can catch on average 1 CB silver a year would be able to catch 10 CB silvers a year with the same dedication and effort.)

 

___________________________________

* which seems to be a vast majority, but I might be mistaken

** judging by the progression of eggs in the abandoned page (when I hunt there, factoring out CBs, 50%+ lineages usually look deliberate to me), this could be true for maybe 20% the player base, assuming about half the player base breeds their dragons, and the lineage-interested people on average breed more than those that don't.

Edited May 4, 2016 by pinkgothic

[Sethiss]

I may be misunderstanding the suggestion, but wouldn't adding more rares to the cave make the situation WORSE? I mean, it's an utter nightmare to get CB metals for most players. Adding more unobtainables seems like it would only increase frustration.

[Fuzzbucket]

___________________________________

** judging by the progression of eggs in the abandoned page (when I hunt there, factoring out CBs, 50%+ lineages usually look deliberate to me), this could be true for maybe 20% the player base, assuming about half the player base breeds their dragons, and the lineage-interested people on average breed more than those that don't.

As to the AP bit there - I catch loads from the AP - and chuck them back because others don't build the same lineages as I do. A perfect royal blue x crimson lineage doesn't interest me, as I'm not working on that. I have on occasion been inspired to start something new because of an AP catch - but if one is already building lines, one only wants ones that FIT, like.

 

So in a way, we need more communication to make those move faster !

 

And yes, I agree with Sethiss. I do think it would make things worse rather than better.

Edited May 4, 2016 by fuzzbucket

[pinkgothic]

As to the AP bit there - I catch loads from the AP - and chuck them back because others don't build the same lineages as I do. A perfect royal blue x crimson lineage doesn't interest me, as I'm not working on that. I have on occasion been inspired to start something new because of an AP catch - but if one is already building lines, one only wants ones that FIT, like.

 

Oh yeah. There's lots of variety. I wasn't trying to make any sort of point about how useful the AP is or isn't, just using it to gauge (super roughly) how much interest people playing the game might have in lineages (as in, making them). Differently worded, not talking about "people interested in the lineages that are found in the AP", but "people interested in making lineages with their dragons, using the composition of the AP as evidence".

 

Sorry for the confusion.

Edited May 4, 2016 by pinkgothic

[Fuzzbucket]

Oh yeah. There's lots of variety. I wasn't trying to make any sort of point about how useful the AP is or isn't, just using it to gauge (super roughly) how much interest people playing the game might have in lineages (as in, making them). Differently worded, not talking about "people interested in the lineages that are found in the AP", but "people interested in making lineages with their dragons, using the composition of the AP as evidence".

 

Sorry for the confusion.

Well, the thing is (no confusion, really ) that when I breed for a lineage, MOSTLY I want to keep what I get.... so most of mine don't end up in the AP. Though fair comment actually - when I get the wrong breed, I sometimes dump.

[purplehaze]

Obviously, everybody is allowed to support or oppose whatever suggestion. TJ is able to identify how many support or oppose (whatever the number of multiple "yay" or "nay" posts posted by the same), and is important to know the motivations behind different points of view. At least is important for us, members of the community, could be for TJ as well.

I stated my opinion and my reasons for it. My objection is about having the reasons that Sir Barton and I and others have given being restated in such a negative tone. I think TJ is capable of interpreting what we said without your help and I suspect other members of the community can do so also!

 

I have more or less resigned myself to never having enough CB Golds to do anything with. I honestly don't find them that attractive and amazing anyway. But suggesting that a whole bunch of new and amazing rare dragons should be introduced makes me incredibly sad. I know that I could never hope to have CBs of them and for reasons already stated before in this thread, CBs are important to those of us who are lineage builders. Introducing more unobtainable, but highly desirable, dragons would not improve the game for me.

 

The somewhat questionable premise that everyone who is here for the original release will be able to get plenty is no help to those who may miss, for whatever reason, the first few hours of the release, because it is very certain that they will not drop plentifully for very long if they are to be "real" rares.

Edited May 4, 2016 by purplehaze

[olympe]

(However, the suggestion is about a number of shiny, sparkly and overall amazing rares.)

Is it? I must have missed that part in the opening post. "Amazingly ugly" could also fit that bill though.

 

 

Well, it may not be in the OP, but it seems to be general consensus.

One stipulation tho.. if it's going to be a RARE, it needs to have AWESOME artwork. Not just good, but really great artwork. This kind that makes you go WOW! whenever you see one.

And, in direct reference:

Agreed. I know of several scripters spriters that would make us go WOW! And some!.

On top of that, if it's going to be rare it generally needs to look like it fits the bill, and that is another challenge altogether.

 

Also, about the rare = metal stereotype, I personally keep hoping for a rare that isn't metallic or jewel-like.

We have some really nice dragons on the completed list that could fill this order.

I think it would be nice to see the Grace, and Lepidoptera dragons from the completed list be rare since the sprites are gorgeous and have enough wow factor to qualify.

Support! I'm not as familiar as many of you with the Completed list but there are some spectacular sprites there that deserve stardom.

Because to some degree rarity is user driven I think the bare name of the dragon must say "rare and precious" alone for them to take a place as highly sought rares.

 

I'm not saying the sprites suggested aren't worthy. All I'm saying is that for a true rare I think you need one that shouts "I'm a rare!" not just by beautiful sprites but also by the bare name.

 

Let's take the Mithrils. When you think of mithril (by whatever spelling is chosen, since there are multiple out there) don't you think "That should be a very rare and precious thing" because of the lore associated with the name? Of course, the current sprites don't live up that that.

I wasn't thinking of specific dragons.  But we do have some amazing spriters that are able to create gorgeous sprites in no time at all.  Although I personally think that we should have at least one jewel based rare that has a crystalline aspect to it.  To me, a dragon based on a jewel is lacking if all it takes from the jewel is color.

I also can't see why a sprite (or indeed its name) has to be awesomely different to qualify. I would be happy to see loads of existing ones as rares in the sense that their sprites are up to scratch. I'm not naming any in partic as tastes differ.

IF we get new true-rares, they really must be spectacular. *snip* Silly as it might be, but when I look at a dragon and think "rare".... I think "SHINY!"

There's a difference between a well executed sprite of an ugly dragon, and a poorly executed sprite of a beautiful dragon.  As far as I know, those in DR already strive for both skillful art and exciting design when creating new dragons, and TJ already selects those with the art he thinks is best to add to the site.

 

I agree with your sentiment that rare dragons should be really special, but as far as I know, the site already strives for maximum specialness when creating common dragons.  I don't see what more could be done to make the rares even more special.

 

 

Compared to:

Personally, I could support this suggestion if the rare dragons in question are somewhat NOT pretty and totally unusable in lineages.

In direct reference to this:

This.

and

I like your rare nasties thought

 

That's a ratio of 10 people who agree that rares need to be shiny and special and pure awesomeness compared to 3 people in favor of adding ugly rares. (Yes, I noticed that fuzzbucket is in both camps.)

 

So, forgive me for getting the impression that this suggestion is about shiny, special, aweseome-looking new rares.

[Kovia]

Did we ever say that rares have to be shiny? Personally my favorite dragon here is the Daydream and those aren't shiny in the slightest.

 

Pretty doesn't automatically mean metallic. People tend to just assume that because the existing ones are Gold and Silver.

 

Ugly can sometimes be charming in its own way. I hated the Brimstones when I first saw them but they're starting to grow on me.

 

So yeah, any design can be assigned any rarity. Heck, maybe a better solution is to take something beautiful and make it common as dirt. (Probably not, I'm half joking here.)

 

I see no reason for the hostility I'm seeing. I was on the fence about this and you guys have driven me to support it.

The addition of a rare hurts nothing. Sure, some people whine later that they didn't know it was rare or missed the release or something, but those same people whine about commons being added. We have had rare added in fairly recently and now they are part of a thriving market.

 

I'm sorry but your personal goals have no impact on core game mechanics. The point of a personal goal is to have something to occupy your time, not frustrate you. Personally, I think those of you complaining about not being able to get the rares you "need" are doing it wrong.