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SullenCat

Release several new "real" rares

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Uh, _Sin_, the reason I put that the way I did is because I'm the conceptor and principal sprite artist for the current Mithrils. They need redone desperately, probably starting with brand new sketches. (Though I do still like the sketches that Sif drew based on my rough concept sketches... but they've too much wing and not enough detail on the dragon.)

Oh I was perfectly aware, that was the reason for the smiley smile.gif I was trying a gentle nudge.

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I support new Rares - always have.

Everyone and their cousin's uncle's girlfriend's brother-in-law's goldfish want CB Golds or 2G Prizes.

Let's make a new Rare that will help balance out the trading market.

Golds/2Gs may still be in demand, but so will the new Rares that come about (hopefully).

Don't come out with 10 Rares, though! xd.png Maybe a couple or a few.

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Actually... I believe that to release only one or two real rares would be counter-productive. The outcome would be that, instead of catching Golds and Silvers, the fast catchers would be catching Golds, Silvers and NewRare. That would not improve anything, would not open the market, would just make things worse. At the same time, while I would like to see at least 10 to 20 more real rares available, there is no pressing need to release them all at once. Let's say one per quarter?

And be the case that older sprites are redone and/or new sprites are created, that would still need time... at least a few weeks?

But think of this. Instead of catching 3 golds and 4 silvers, they're catching 2 golds 3 silvers and 2 of the new rare. That's at least one more gold and silver that the rest of the populace can have a chance to get their hands on, and it's even better with more new rare species. The more rares, the more the rare hunters have to split their egg slots and rares get spread around to more people.

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I support new Rares - always have.

Everyone and their cousin's uncle's girlfriend's brother-in-law's goldfish want CB Golds or 2G Prizes.

Let's make a new Rare that will help balance out the trading market.

Golds/2Gs may still be in demand, but so will the new Rares that come about (hopefully).

Don't come out with 10 Rares, though! xd.png Maybe a couple or a few.

Hey, one a quarter means 4 this year. After one year, the strategy can be re-evaluated and there would be enough feedback. Maybe a couple during the birthday? Just because the majority of the forum (and not only) users, unless they live under a rock, know about it and will be around and that will be their best chance to catch a rare.

 

But think of this.  Instead of catching 3 golds and 4 silvers, they're catching 2 golds 3 silvers and 2 of the new rare.  That's at least one more gold and silver that the rest of the populace can have a chance to get their hands on, and it's even better with more new rare species.  The more rares, the more the rare hunters have to split their egg slots and rares get spread around to more people.

Edit: Oops, got your point now. 100% on the same page.

Edited by SullenCat

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No support.

In fact, I'm 100% against this idea.

Every time that a new dragon is released at certain point the drop slow down and someone raise the question "is this going to be a rare dragon" and the reaction is the most negative possible. People freak out. The community hates rare dragons. Rare dragons are good only as trade fodder and I'm also 100% against the idea to feed the greed and unfairness that I see in the market.

Actually, I would like to see all dragons transformed in commons and uncommons, including golds, silvers and shimmers. This is a collection site, everybody should be able to have CBs of all dragons available.

The community hates rare dragons? Well, color me shocked. The drama about new releases comes from the possibility that they will be rare and people might not get enough. That does not equal dislike. If rares were hated you would not be able to give them away.

 

Now going on what Fi said:[i'm not saying the sprites suggested aren't worthy. All I'm saying is that for a true rare I think you need one that shouts "I'm a rare!" not just by beautiful sprites but also by the bare name.] There is a lot of truth in this. How often do new people ask how to get rares or come up with suggestions to make it easier...Rather often. If Brimstones, which are much the same color as golds, were actually gold dragons and seldom dropped and the current golds were butterscotch dragons, it would be very hard to get enough brimstones.

Edited by ainisarie

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Thanks, but no thanks.

 

Adding 10 new rares to the mix would probably give us 6 times as many rares to hunt (if we consider only golds and silvers as rares), meaning that their numbers are six times as hight as before, too. However, I still cannot catch CB golds, and even CB silvers are very few and far between. (Average is less than 1/year.) So I really don't want more rares, which equals "dragons I'll probably never be able to catch in the biomes by myself" for me.

 

I don't mind more uncommons like xenos, but I'm very much against new rares unless there's an alternate way to get them.

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What she said. I am a lineage builder and rares are just dragons I tend not to use because they are too much like hard work. Nebs and undines are more fun as challenges, because at least you get another chance!

 

ETA I also can't see why a sprite (or indeed its name) has to be awesomely different to qualify. I would be happy to see loads of existing ones as rares in the sense that their sprites are up to scratch. I'm not naming any in partic as tastes differ.

Edited by fuzzbucket

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I'm ambivalent about more true rares. On the one hand, I think we could use a number of more breeds that are around Trio / Copper rarity, but those are more what I'd term "uncommon" than true rare. But once you get up to Gold and Silver rarity, you start to really get into Drama Central. I think that a whole slew of uncommon types like Trios would really help give an intermediate step between "dirt common" and "rare". Trios have been out a while, and so have Coppers.

 

And don't forget the user-driven factor. Part of the reason CB Golds and Silvers are so in-demand is that so many users want and use them because they are perceived as "more valuable".... which since they are rare and so already harder to get, its easier to drive them into "user-driven" rarity. Its a cycle.

 

So, long and short of it is....

IF we get new true-rares, they really must be spectacular. The only ones on the completed list that feel to me right now that they scream "RARE" are the Tanglewyrms and Mythrils, and a large part of that is the quality of the sprite and how shiny they are. Silly as it might be, but when I look at a dragon and think "rare".... I think "SHINY!"

 

Cheers!

C4.

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I'm glad that Blusangs are not rares because I collect them since I first joined the site. I have several CBs, they are easy to catch. But I think they look like jewels, I've been naming mine after gems.

 

See? We don't need more real rares, just more beautiful dragons.

I couldn't agree more. I'm not in favor of market value and think value should be in the eye of the beholder. I don't see a reason to have more dragons with impossible to catch drops and hideous breeding ratios. That zaps a great deal of fun out of the game for many.

 

No support for more rares. The player base already has shown its ability to create false rares. I see no reason to add to that by letting us create more ultra-rares.

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I don't even try for Golds any more. I have never caught one and frankly don't intend to try. I have two CBs that were gifts from generous players. I rarely breed them, except by request and then give away the offspring. I don't even try to build lineages with them and toss back metallic lineages that I find in the AP. They just spell frustration for me and are not worth the wheeling and dealing necessary to continue them. I have seen very few CB Golds in trading that are not asking 2nd gen Prizes or maybe Neglecteds in return.

 

I was lucky enough to be around when Silvers were a bit more common than they are now and so have more of those. I still don't do much with them in lineages, but at least don't find them impossible.

 

I would really not care to have more dragons like that that are beyond my reach and beyond hope of ever being able to have enough of them to breed a lineage on my own scroll, which is what I prefer to do. If a new rare were to be released I would probably just write it off like the Golds as soon as I realized it was rare. sad.gif

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I would love if there were quite more rares. Everybody wants Golds and Silvers because they are rare. If there was more diversity there would be more chances of catching something that people would want to trade for. I'm with cyradis4: new rares should be spectacular!

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/snip

So, long and short of it is....

IF we get new true-rares, they really must be spectacular. The only ones on the completed list that feel to me right now that they scream "RARE" are the Tanglewyrms and Mythrils, and a large part of that is the quality of the sprite and how shiny they are. Silly as it might be, but when I look at a dragon and think "rare".... I think "SHINY!"

There's so much talent in this community that I'm sure that other spectacular dragons, to add to those screaming "RARE" right now, could be created in the short or medium term, to be released as Real Rares.

For what concerns suggestions... While I've no problems with non-metallic rares, I admit I would like to see jewel-inspired rares. For example, using Red Gold as an inspiration. Enamels. The obvious gems: diamonds, rubies (red, brown, violet), emeralds, sapphires, topaz (yellow, pink, red, blue). Agate, lapis lazuli, malachite, carnelian, morganite, alexandrite, cat's-eye, jacinth, amethyst, aquamarine, amber, jade, turquoise, opal, pearl (not forgetting mother-of-pearl), amber, coral, ivory and jet. So many choices.

http://www.britannica.com/media/full/303500/139261

Edited by _Sin_

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I'm really not concerned with what the concepts are so long as the artwork is better then average. We have some excellent artists on site and I'm sure if they chose to sprite 'rare' dragons, their work would be awesome.

 

What matters tho is the actual release of real rares. Since TJ doesn't like labeling dragons with their rarities, I'm not sure just how many 'real' rares there are. Some folk say only 2 (gold & silver).. some add coppers, trios, xenos or blusangs. Whatever. Thing is we need more real rares that folk know are rares.

 

There are currently so many commons and uncommons in the cave, we never see rares at all. Wouldn't adding more make it more likely to see one? I don't think I've even seen a Silver in over a year, and it's been longer than that since I've seen a gold. The last one I actually acquired was around Mar 19, 2013 and I had to trade 20 hatchlings for it. I'd gladly make the same trade again, but no one is trading Golds for less than 2nd gen Prizes or Neglecteds these days.

 

So maybe what we need are more rares to help balance out all the commons and uncommons. Plus give everyone more chances to at least see a rare, even if we can't catch them.. someone will and hopefully, they'll trade them for a more reasonable price.

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The only real issue I see with this is a potential social backlash. People who missed the release, who thought the new dragons wouldn't be rare, who are upset they didn't get as many as person x, etc. If it can be complained about, people will complain.

 

I think releasing a group of dragons saying that they are rare is a bad idea. Whether all at once or over time, if people know that they are rare, people will grab a ton during the release. People already grab tons of any release jic they turn rare.

 

 

Not sure how to balance that tho, maybe release them along with some commons? Or as a birthday event?

 

I'm all up for anything new with a beautiful sprite. I'm toying with an idea of my own for a prism or prismatic dragon, might post it might not idk. I'm still at a sketch phase and I can't sprite at DC's level.

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TJ never announces rarity anyway so we'd all learn the same way... over time. Plus folk are going to complain regardless.. for any reason or none at all. It's time to stop listening to the whiners and just play the game. Trolls are going to troll, that's their thing.. and the only way to deal with them, is to ignore them and not feed them.

 

The MAJORITY of DC players just want to enjoy themselves, collect dragons, build lineages and whatever else we do to play the game. It's that small vocal minority of whiners and trolls that get us upset and we have to learn to ignore them. If there is a real reason for a complaint, more folk would say something, the mods would tell TJ, and TJ would fix it. He may be stingy with upgrades and improvements, but he ALWAYS fixes 'real' problems.

 

Most of the time, I don't think he even bothers to listen to us when we ask for things. But that doesn't mean we quit asking.. eventually, hopefully, he will listen and give us upgrades and new features. But I'm not going to hold my breath waiting, lol.

 

edit for spelling

Edited by Cinnamin Draconna

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Most of the time, I don't think he even bothers to listen to us when we ask for things.

And that's the reason why these threads don't bother me. I know exactly the distance between some users suggest something and TJ make it happen. There are threads sitting in this section for more than 6 years. smile.gif

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There are currently so many commons and uncommons in the cave, we never see rares at all. Wouldn't adding more make it more likely to see one?

Thank you, exactly my point.

I do not know exactly how many breeds there are in the biomes right now. The wikia references 163 but I assume that includes Holidays, NDs, Prizes, Zombies etc. Let's assume that there are 130 breeds in the biomes. Even ignoring ratios, how many chances there are of a Gold or a Silver popping up? Now let's assume that the 10 rares were added, one every other month, and 20 more not-rares were added during the same period. That would substantially increase the chances of seeing, maybe even catching a rare.

Furthermore, as pointed out earlier, if there's a good catcher sitting for hours in the biomes, still... can catch not more than 7 and, all things being equal, will catch a mix, leaving more for the rest of us. More people with rares leads to more people gifting, including low-gen bred babies.

 

Afterthought: if the actual trend continues and more common releases are added, without balancing with rares, harder and harder will be to see those famous metals.

 

Editing to reply to Kovia:

I don't think the rarity would be disclosed, we would just find out at a certain point, think Coppers - even if they are uncommon. What happened when Golds and Silvers were released? I was not around at the time. I think that other breeds chould be added at the same time, let's say 2 or 3 common/uncommon releases for every rare?

Edited to remove off-topic.

Edited by SullenCat

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And sometimes he listens. Think Solstices. Think cave blockers. He does.

Solstices still don't have a way to identify the time they were bred, the color it's still a lottery.

And none of the several suggestions about cave blockers and AP were implemented.

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Not sure how to balance that tho, maybe release them along with some commons? Or as a birthday event?

 

I'm all up for anything new with a beautiful sprite. I'm toying with an idea of my own for a prism or prismatic dragon, might post it might not idk. I'm still at a sketch phase and I can't sprite at DC's level.

There's a birthday this month. Hint, hint!

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Actually I was talking about his and Odeen's decision about the color of the Solstices. And about the work done to stop the AP from blocking the access to the biomes. Give the man credit when credit is due. Anyway, I will not further reply to off-topic.

These two examples are good examples of how the suggestions don't get through, not how TJ listen to the sugestions. We didn't get what we wanted, we got something similar but not exactly what was requested.

Actually the only time that I see TJ giving exactly what a player wanted was when he gave us the Christmas game back. Everything else is still on hold in this section and a couple of things were implemented in a different fashion, not what was requested.

 

I foresee the same result for this suggestion about rares so I'm not worried. smile.gif

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I wasn't thinking of specific dragons. But we do have some amazing spriters that are able to create gorgeous sprites in no time at all. Although I personally think that we should have at least one jewel based rare that has a crystalline aspect to it. To me, a dragon based on a jewel is lacking if all it takes from the jewel is color.

I'm trying to visualize but (due to the lack of a single artistic bone in my body) not being successful. Do you mean transparency or crystalline structure?

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Thank you, exactly my point.

I do not know exactly how many breeds there are in  the biomes right now. The wikia references 163 but I assume that includes Holidays, NDs, Prizes, Zombies etc. Let's assume that there are 130 breeds in the biomes. Even ignoring ratios, how many chances there are of a Gold or a Silver popping up? Now let's assume that the 10 rares were added, one every other month, and 20 more not-rares were added during the same period. That would substantially increase the chances of seeing, maybe even catching a rare.

Furthermore, as pointed out earlier, if there's a good catcher sitting for hours in the biomes, still... can catch not more than 7 and, all things being equal, will catch a mix, leaving more for the rest of us. More people with rares leads to more people gifting, including low-gen bred babies.

 

Afterthought: if the actual trend continues and more common releases are added, without balancing with rares, harder and harder will be to see those famous metals.

 

Editing to reply to Kovia:

I don't think the rarity would be disclosed, we would just find out at a certain point,  think Coppers - even if they are uncommon. What happened when Golds and Silvers were released? I was not around at the time.  I think that other breeds chould be added at the same time, let's say 2 or 3 common/uncommon releases for every rare?

 

 

And sometimes he listens. Think Solstices. Think cave blockers. He does.

If I didn't count wrong, we currently have 111 breeds in the cave. Let's round it to 110. (Counting color morphs for coppers, dorsals and the like, as well as day/night glories and sunrise/sunset eggs as one breed each.) Additionally, we have 11 or 12 dragon breeds that are available, but not in the cave (hybrids, geodes, avatars, GoN, vamps, NDs), 2 prizes (not counting color morphs), plus holidays. (I also counted seasonals as one, because there's only ever one kind of seasonal available in the cave anyway.)

 

Sure, adding 20 rares would increase chances for almost everyone to see them. But catching them? Only the fastest, as usual. And while they will be able to fill up on all of them, the rest of the players is going to be left in the dust.

 

I'm fine with uncommon-to-rarish, like coppers even. But absolutely totally against almost-impossible-to-get-without-breaking-the-rules rare like golds.

 

 

ETA: IMHO, TJ does listen to us, at least when it suits him. I've been here for a while, and a number of suggestions from users have been implemented - although not always in exactly the way as suggested.

La femme project, giving dimorphism to many breeds as well as adding male purples? Check.

BSAs like teleport and fertility? Check.

Hatchie-Incubate? No check, but the limits got adjusted so that you don't need it unless you raise ER eggs mostly.

Increasing egg limits? Check. (Of course, it has come up again. We are insatiable, after all!)

Doing away with the AP blocking the cave (later biomes)? Check.

Making CB eggs available throughout the hour? Check.

Shuffling the eggs in the biomes more often than once per hour? Check, we got the 5-minute-shuffle/drop.

 

Overall, he does listen to us - if he agrees that a suggestion has merit and most players seem to be in favor. At least that's the vibe I get.

Edited by olympe

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Sure, adding 20 rares would increase chances for almost everyone to see them. But catching them? Only the fastest, as usual. And while they will be able to fill up on all of them, the rest of the players is going to be left in the dust.

This is where we disagree. Based on some scrolls I saw very recently, there must be at least 10 CB golds dropping every day. I assume the same for the Silvers. Based on that assumption, if there were 12 rares, that would mean 120 available every day instead of 20. Would that solve all problems? No. But would improve the situation. And I believe on improving, one step at the time.

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Most of the time, I don't think he even bothers to listen to us when we ask for things. But that doesn't mean we quit asking.. eventually, hopefully, he will listen and give us upgrades and new features. But I'm not going to hold my breath waiting, lol.

I'm not holding my breath either. I've been on a rather long DC hiatus and only check the site and the forum occasionally, mostly during holidays and when I have absolutely nothing better to do.

 

And guess what? Not a single thing changed in this game beyond "NEW DRAGONS!!1!1". That's on par with one of those GTA Online updates where Rockstar does nothing but add new cars for players to waste in-game and/or real-life money on. It's probably enough to arouse interest from people who were waiting for major changes for a week (and that's really generous), and then it's just going to sink back to the bottom of their priorities.

 

At this stage, the root problem I see is not that TJ doesn't listen to the playerbase, but that the game has been terrifyingly static over the years. When was the last time that we saw some major, nay, noteworthy gameplay mechanic change? I can't recall one, looked all the way back to January 2015 in News and gave up without finding one.

 

 

My current impression of the state of the game and S/R is that there's no point discussing anything. It doesn't matter if I start an idea, agree to an idea, disagree with an idea, get into a heated debate over an idea, get spriter opinion on an idea, get spriter support/opposition on an idea, get TJ to respond to an idea, get TJ to voice the feasibility and possibility of an idea or whatever. Nothing is going to actually change in a foreseeable future anyway.

Edited by CNR4806

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I'm trying to visualize but (due to the lack of a single artistic bone in my body) not being successful. Do you mean transparency or crystalline structure?

There are a few ways to do it. Crystalline structure is probably the easiest. Horns and spines made out of crystal and somewhat oversized to make it more spectacular, and/or crystalline growths elsewhere. It can also be done without actually having crystals growing from the body, such as scales of a type that give the impression that the whole dragon is really a faceted gem. Transparency is also a possibility, but I think the crystalline nature of gems is a better thing to transfer to the dragon. Although, I prefer a dragon that is beautifully shaded to give the impression of translucence to one that actually shows the background through.

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