ANSWERED:Earning Special sprites via Activity

[Vhale]

You're right, and I do realize that. It would also penalize those who are under gold trophy level, if you look at it that way, so the "who-is-it-penalizing" approach obviously cannot be the only approach we take. That's why I suggested specifically the cap working around egg hatching, not how many eggs can you hatch + how many hatchlings can you raise + 12 teleports or what have you. Just a base number that will make sense to most people and whereby you aren't limited simply to that activity. This is just me explaining my reasoning, not necessarily saying, "This is the way it must BE!"

 

In my mind, dragon prices should be high - it should (again, according to me) take six months to a year of reaching the weekly cap to obtain a CB Prize. Seeing prices in the thousands makes sense to me, possibly more (again, I don't feel like mathing).

 

But I'm not particularly married to any ideas at this point.

I don't disagree on the year thing. I've a bit biased about the work aspect because I played MMOs for years. Blizzard went through this thing with Daily quests where you could do them for various awards, but only 20 per day. Then last expansion they removed the cap. As many as you wanted. All day. Ugh. Burn out city. So while I think it should be something that takes patience is good, I don't want to see people forced to spend 1-2 hours a day doing it.

 

Being something of an OCD breeder/power gamer at times, there's how fast I can raise eggs and there's how fast I can raise eggs. For maximum speed, snatch ap eggs. Hatch them. Rinse repeat. If I took time to hunt the cave or the ap, I'd be slowing down my point gain. No time to mess with lineages either or trade. That would be a waste of an egg slot that would potentially give me a point. It's obsessive, but I can't say I haven't done it in other games.

 

That's also why I think the cap needs to be low enough that people can still play how they want rather than just be pressured to raise any egg asap.

 

For the math! 365 days a year. So, assuming 7 points per week means 365 points for 1 year of saving.

[olympe]

On average, you're correct.

 

I don't disagree on the year thing. I've a bit biased about the work aspect because I played MMOs for years. Blizzard went through this thing with Daily quests where you could do them for various awards, but only 20 per day. Then last expansion they removed the cap. As many as you wanted. All day. Ugh. Burn out city. So while I think it should be something that takes patience is good, I don't want to see people forced to spend 1-2 hours a day doing it.

That's what I'm afraid of, too. I mean, I don't want DC to turn into a chore like that. I don't like grinding. Which is why I advocate caps.

[natli]

Hi, I just wanted to add something to many ideas in this thread. My goal is to incorporate as much of the lore/mana/elements as possible into getting those 'special dragons' through activity. Here goes:

 

From breeding you would get random elements of Creation mana. But for it to count, an egg would need to stay on your scroll for a day.

From raising, freezing and releasing dragons you'll get random elements of Change.

And from killing/biting/zombiefying/neglecting/earthquaking Destruction mana. Killing already has a cap - dead egg takes a slot, and you can kill only five adults.

Neutral mana would be gained from games everybody seems to love so much.

 

And various amounts/combinations of mana (and I mean the specific ones: Air, Time, Earth) of that will get you different 'special dragons'.

 

edit: added earthquaking.

Edited January 20, 2015 by natli

[olympe]

You can only kill 5 things within 2 (?) weeks. You can add to that number by using BSAs (EQ, Bite) or letting eggs/hatchies die from sickness or neglect.

 

Just saying.

[TCA]

As for mana, keep in mind that for the event there was no real difference between the types when it came to progression, the types were for flavor while collecting.

 

For any sort of suggestion where you gain points of some kind flavored as mana I'd prefer it that way.

[Tawanda001]

Hi, I just wanted to add something to many ideas in this thread. My goal is to incorporate as much of the lore/mana/elements as possible into getting those 'special dragons' through activity. Here goes:

 

From breeding you would get random elements of Creation mana. But for it to count, an egg would need to stay on your scroll for a day.

From raising, freezing and releasing dragons you'll get random elements of Change.

And from killing/biting/zombiefying/neglecting/earthquaking Destruction mana. Killing already has a cap - dead egg takes a slot, and you can kill only five adults.

Neutral mana would be gained from games everybody seems to love so much.

 

And various amounts/combinations of mana (and I mean the specific ones: Air, Time, Earth) of that will get you different 'special dragons'.

 

edit: added earthquaking.

I don't care at all for this, it would involve needing to trade mana for some players, something I'm very much against. And especially if mini games only give one sort of mana, you force players into a particular play style to collect the other types of mana.

Reasons given in the other thread, quoted here

As in to get a particular dragon you need x number of fire mana and x number of water and x number of neutral mana in some specified combination? Different dragons would have different combinations?

Because I totally don't want that.

How would that work for someone like my daughter who basically only collects two of each new release and usually only breeds in order to AP holiday eggs, how would she be able to collect enough of the different kinds of mana? Because random generation of mana is probably not always going to be that random, you're bringing in an element of luck again. I'd rather stick with a set price, this is worth 1200 points of any type, not you need to have 300 of this and 400 of that, etc.

 

[natli]

@olympe

Yes, but EQ and Bite takes an eggslot, and letting eggs die means keeping them on your scroll for a long time. You cannot do that en masse. Letting eggs die out of sickness - I didn't think of that. I guess it's a weak point.

 

@TCA & Tawanda

The purpose behind collecting specific types of mana is to make it very difficult and time consuming. I want 'special sprites' to stay rare.

[DragonNighthowler]

I don't care at all for this, it would involve needing to trade mana for some players, something I'm very much against. And especially if mini games only give one sort of mana, you force players into a particular play style to collect the other types of mana.

Reasons given in the other thread, quoted here

Agreed. For example, if I don't want to risk a scroll slot by failing biting, why should I be forced to do it only to gather that type of mana?

 

I'm still a strong advocate to keep things simple. In my opinion, it is the fairest of systems. Even for people with very specific scroll goals, they can raise and abandon the dragon later (which they have a right to do, they shouldn't be forced to keep a dragon they don't want and abandon is a legal action).

 

The whole issue with the badges, the badge in itself should be considered unfair then because it implies a difference in how many egg/hatchlings users can raise. I don't think it is that hard to get to gold badge and, then again, even in people with specific scroll goals, does it really matter if it takes me 3 months to get the special dragon and them 5 months? It's not like they won't be able to get the goal at all. Only that it'll take them a bit longer.

 

is to make it very difficult and time consuming

 

I didn't think this suggestion was thought out as something that had to be time consuming. Quiet the contrary, it was an alternative to time consuming activities like having to play a game to get the points.

 

If this is supposed to be time consuming, then I'm against it. Many users joined the game precisely because it wasn't time consuming. I'd rather this be kept that way.

[Fuzzbucket]

@TCA & Tawanda

The purpose behind collecting specific types of mana is to make it very difficult and time consuming. I want 'special sprites' to stay rare.

Difficult - OK.

 

Time consuming - not OK. Not everyone CAN spend all that time on dragcave so you are at once disadvantaging some players. It HAS to be a level playing field.

 

Grinding as, effectively, a requirement will turn off MANY players.

[Sir Barton]

Difficult - OK.

 

Time consuming - not OK. Not everyone CAN spend all that time on dragcave so you are at once disadvantaging some players. It HAS to be a level playing field.

 

Grinding as, effectively, a requirement will turn off MANY players.

It would certainly turn me off.

[Vhale]

Time consuming doesn't have to mean spend 3 hours per day collecting various types of mana. It can mean, spend 1 year collecting points to buy said dragon. The mana game was a fairly decent example. It was short. 14 days to get tickets. But, it's still a daily quest. As Dragon Cave is now, it doesn't make you visit the site each day. I don't want to see the laid back nature of the site dismantled.

[natli]

I see nobody likes my suggestion, oh well

 

@Vhale

What I had in mind was a slow, long process where you'll have to think what you're doing in order to collect the right kind and quantity of mana. So that the sprites would be hard-earned and still special. I certainly didn't think of playing for 3 hours straight, I have a job lol

[AnanoKimi]

Difficult - OK.

 

Time consuming - not OK. Not everyone CAN spend all that time on dragcave so you are at once disadvantaging some players. It HAS to be a level playing field.

 

Grinding as, effectively, a requirement will turn off MANY players.

As Vhale said, Time consuming doesn't mean it you will be forced to sit for 3 hours and do x task like that every day. It means it will take some more time than others depending on their schedule to get what they want but they will eventually get there.

 

Personally if its time consuming I would like it. If you really want it, then work for it how ever long to get it however quick, or however little so long as you can get there eventually. It ensures that well some of the rare and special sprites remain that way. Personally I think that should be the point of these suggestions. Not about how easily you can get something but how attainable it is in the long run whether it takes you 6 months of playing something 3-5 hours a day or takes you 1 year of playing something 1-3 hours a day. Yes it might get disheartening for some who take longer than others, but still. I mean if you really want it, you gotta work for it. This wasn't originally something meant to be easily obtained by everyone anytime they wanted. It was meant to be won by a few who got lucky.

 

But then again that's just my view point and it really seems that trying to keep something like prizes and the such rare or exclusive because well that's how they were introduced and seemingly meant to be seems to be the least popular opinion. But that's my two cents. Quote this as you like I'm not gonna check back anytime soon so try not to direct any responses directly at me. Feel free to pick apart this logic though.

[Fuzzbucket]

But it does mean that retired people like me would have an advantage over people with jobs, children to look after etc.

[Tawanda001]

I simply want it to obtainable for all players regardless of play style.

 

My daughter simply does not breed her dragons except at holidays, to go to the AP. She doesn't (usually) breed for trades as she doesn't like that aspect of the game, she doesn't breed for herself as her goals are simply to collect 2 of each sprite, she has said she won't breed and release just to gain points.

So if you make breeding a mandatory part of collecting the right kind of mana to get a specific dragon how does she participate in that? She's only able to get that type of points 3 times a year?

 

That's why I'd rather not need specific types of mana, each type tied to different activities. Not all players will want to do those all of those things so I think we need to have different ways of collecting mana points, and that it doesn't matter which types of mana are collected.

[Vhale]

I believe the example was hatching eggs, they didn't have to be self bred. But as far as your daughter, while I can sympathize with her. On the other hand, activity denotes that some action must be taken. Otherwise there would just be a cooldown timer and everyone gets an egg for Christmas. So, what action is she willing to take?

[angelicdragonpuppy]

I think it makes sense to have points handed out for a variety of different reasons, so that most play styles will find a way to fit in. Yes, more active players will thus earn prizes faster, but everyone can earn the same stuff eventually. Honestly, that's already how the game runs; people who limit themselves to only collecting a few of each sprite are severely lacking in BSAs / breeding fodder / easy encyclopedia filling / more egg slots compared to players who collect masses of stuff, and people who don't breed very often also miss out on having stuff to trade and quick encyclopedia filling. The more you invest in the game, the more you get out of it, but--both before, AND here--you can still slowly earn everything regardless. People who only collect one of each sprite will eventually amass enough to get trophies, a few BSA dragons, maybe some rares they can breed for trading, etc etc even if it takes a while. Just as those people will slowly amass points through this system.

 

In other words, while I don't think less active / more limited players should ever be excluded from anything, I also think it's silly to hold back more active players just because some people are less active / choose to limit themselves. A system where everyone can slowly earn everything, but more work can earn faster rewards, makes the most sense to me.

Edited January 21, 2015 by angelicdragonpuppy

[Fuzzbucket]

I do think that ordinary CAVE activity should be just as "valuable" and effective in terms of getting the necessary whatever (mana, points, who cares) as games of some kind.

 

Sure more active players will get more of whatever it is- but no-one should have to grind away at games they don't want to play as the only way to get whatever it ends up being. When I'm playing, I want to spend my time breeding, catching, gifting and trading - not playing some game that has nothing to do with any of that CORE activity except being the only way to get an egg of some kind.

[Guillotine]

Now that you bring it up, I agree that any minigame should have a (weekly?) cap on how much you can earn for this kind of thing if it's implemented at all. That said, capping normal gameplay points doesn't seem like it'd make much of a difference, although I can see the pros/cons to both sides.

[angelicdragonpuppy]

I do think that ordinary CAVE activity should be just as "valuable" and effective in terms of getting the necessary whatever (mana, points, who cares) as games of some kind.

 

Sure more active players will get more of whatever it is- but no-one should have to grind away at games they don't want to play as the only way to get whatever it ends up being. When I'm playing, I want to spend my time breeding, catching, gifting and trading - not playing some game that has nothing to do with any of that CORE activity except being the only way to get an egg of some kind.

Ah no, I wasn't talking about games (if you were speaking in answer to myself)

 

I meant instead of just having points for the absolute basics of "hatching eggs / raising to adults or frozens," we could also award points for trading, using BSAs, sending one way teleports, breeding (with DAILY CAPS on this one to prevent insanity ), naming, describing, viewing certain amounts of dragons (probably good to have a point cap for this one, too--viewing should be encouraged, giving everything in the cave softshell should not be!), and so on and so forth. Things that ARE a part of DC gameplay as we already know it, but aren't necessarily utilized as a part of everyone's gameplay.

 

So, say, someone who only collects one of each sprite, names them, and gives other people views would still gain points and be able to cash in someday, but someone who does all that stuff and also trades, gifts, and breeds on a daily basis would gain points more quickly. Same reward for everyone in the end, more active people just can get there faster.

[HeatherMarie]

angelicdragonpuppy, that sounds just about perfect. With all those different elements to earn points for, it would severely cut down on the 'it's not fair, have to do things I don't want, etc' reactions.

[Tawanda001]

I believe the example was hatching eggs, they didn't have to be self bred. But as far as your daughter, while I can sympathize with her. On the other hand, activity denotes that some action must be taken. Otherwise there would just be a cooldown timer and everyone gets an egg for Christmas. So, what action is she willing to take?

I'm in favor of a system that uses both minigames AND activity for points. Equally.

Minigames for the players who simply want to collect, don't use the forums, don't trade, and use DC as it was originally set up, as a game that did not depend on interacting with other players in order to get dragons.

 

If large amounts of points are going to be the only way to collect some dragons there needs to be a way for those solitary players to get those points without making them participate in breeding or raising dragons they don't want.

And I don't think that it's right to say well they can breed and abandon, or raise and release, or bloat their scrolls if that's not something they want. Some players get rather attached to their little pixel pals and have an aversion to kill/abandon/release.

 

In other words, while I don't think less active / more limited players should ever be excluded from anything, I also think it's silly to hold back more active players just because some people are less active / choose to limit themselves. A system where everyone can slowly earn everything, but more work can earn faster rewards, makes the most sense to me.

I agree but more work might mean playing more minigames too. I think there does need to be a weekly cap, but I don't think that people who have one play style vs another should be able to 'get there faster'. I don't think it should matter how the points are earned. If someone would rather play minigames for hours instead of doing scroll activities why should that make any difference as to how fast they can earn enough points to get the 'store' dragons?

 

Edited January 22, 2015 by Tawanda001

[Syphoneira]

Ah no, I wasn't talking about games (if you were speaking in answer to myself)

 

I meant instead of just having points for the absolute basics of "hatching eggs / raising to adults or frozens," we could also award points for trading, using BSAs, sending one way teleports, breeding (with DAILY CAPS on this one to prevent insanity ), naming, describing, viewing certain amounts of dragons (probably good to have a point cap for this one, too--viewing should be encouraged, giving everything in the cave softshell should not be!), and so on and so forth. Things that ARE a part of DC gameplay as we already know it, but aren't necessarily utilized as a part of everyone's gameplay.

 

So, say, someone who only collects one of each sprite, names them, and gives other people views would still gain points and be able to cash in someday, but someone who does all that stuff and also trades, gifts, and breeds on a daily basis would gain points more quickly. Same reward for everyone in the end, more active people just can get there faster.

 

 

Hi, angelicdragonpuppy!

 

If I may expand on one of your points, encouraging more people to keep fansite Viewers open by giving them points shouldn't be giving any eggs Soft Shell the way mass Viewing of/Clicking on individual scrolls might, but would increase Unique Views, improving the horrible number ratios we now have, which is something slowing down cracking, hatching, gendering and growing up of our dragons and, in order to compensate, requiring much higher numbers of Views from the currently relatively limited player sources regularly running Viewers.

 

And regarding another: someone somewhere (I have a rotten memory, lol,) had suggested applying the number of any proposed daily cap for breeding on a *weekly basis*, as some people can't get on daily or may have a weekly breeding schedule, which would help maintain the freedom of individual game-play integral to DC.

 

 

 

More generally, I personally would certainly appreciate having a simple, time-waster game along the lines of Mana Alchemy (not something complex or involved as a game-within-a-game which distracts from DC itself or affects the focus on DRAGONZ! ) to give us something handy to do while waiting for dragons to come open, people to answer PMs, etc. and feel it would be ideal to also have such a game forming an alternative method of gaining points particularly important for those with limited scroll-goals and interests regarding breeding/collecting dragons.

 

I do have a sneaking suspicion that this general route (which I very much hope would be instituted in the manner of magically summoning dragons using accumulated mana, rather than purchasing them using the currency of points,) may become the only potential method for any increase in the DC CB Holly population, and we've already missed one year's potential for such addition through the Raffle (I'm assuming) in the interest of reducing other and more immediate issues, on which it already demonstrates a positive effect.

 

But for a lot of us, nothing says DC Christmas like the iconic Holly, and it must never become endangered again!

 

 

 

Additionally, for those concerned about 'rarity' and 'trade value of offspring disappearing once everybody has them', I would like to ask: when have the bulk of DC players ever felt that having TWO of any dragon was sufficient?

 

Many of us like to be able to create lineages, so even if everyone theoretically had a CB pair of everything that was difficult to obtain/previously Raffle-only, swapping/trading/gifting of especially 2nd gens for lineages among us would be a big issue, and great fun for all those wishing to do this.

 

I know on the Prize thread (prior to its closing) there was some discussion about a suggested separate thread specifically for CB owners wishing to blood-swap (which, if it were an option, would help get a lot of these posts the heck out of the way of other trade posts in other threads, as a number of people seem to desire, but without making any remaining usable threads more restrictive to other categories of players at less lofty trading heights,) raising immediate concerns of exclusivity.

 

This, in both cases, relates to the psychological effect which extreme scarcity has had upon directing and limiting our perceptions and reactions overall.

 

Granted, this relates to my personal experience, (although I strongly feel it does generally,) but if, when I was gifted my 2nd gen Tinsel back in 2011, I'd been smart enough to FIRST keep one and swap another, (which I'll finally do now, if I ever get another egg from her, ) I'd have had THREE low-gens each presumably producing an average of 3 eggs a year to start off with - and through all of this time.

 

(And I'd really like to start an even-gen line from her, too, drat it...)

 

Because once you start gifting/trading, there will ALWAYS be a huge pool of people you'd desperately love to be able to gift something really nice to/trade with/for NAOW - and I've been waiting since 2011 to increase the gifting pool from that source and am still waiting.

 

One dragon/a few dragons which produce irregularly won't go far among so many wonderful people encountered on DC, and this would be all the more true where this includes the ability to start with a (typically slow-producing) CB Prize.

 

Prize owners who swap are typically *increasing their breeding pool* in order to potentially produce more, and/or a greater variety in, the eggs of their lines, and almost certainly many of those produced will be traded/gifted off their scrolls and into the community.

 

And this would also hold true for those gaining CB Hybrids, Alts and Hollies through any such mechanism as this.

 

So for those objecting to the idea of decreased rarity among difficult-to-obtain dragons via any means - think of the increased options in game-play, access to wider ranges among lineages and the reduced boredom among those now only dreaming of possibilities.

 

By its nature, scarcity reduces/shuts down a large part of whatever economy/ecology it affects, whereas reduction of the scarcity expands it all.

[angelicdragonpuppy]

@Syphoneira: What if points could only be gained for giving UVs? Then people who DID try to bomb things wouldn't be able to laugh that they're getting free points from it, while people who do sincerely use it would benefit hatcheries, as you said *w*

[Obscure_Trash]

@Syphoneira: What if points could only be gained for giving UVs? Then people who DID try to bomb things wouldn't be able to laugh that they're getting free points from it, while people who do sincerely use it would benefit hatcheries, as you said *w*

I kind of like this. My only concern would be that this gives an advantage to people with dynamic vs. static IPs, although the advantage probably wouldn't be that great that it's really too worrisome.