ANSWERED:Earning Special sprites via Activity

[laertid]

Why not keep it really, really simple?

1 point for hatching.

1 point for raising to adulthood or freezing.

This.

If we add points for "breeding an egg", people will breed everybody with everybody, just for points, and AP will be full of inbred long-lineaged commons. If we add points for naming dragons, there will be players who just don't like naming their dragons. So plain and simple is the best way there is. This idea I like.

[olympe]

Well, people won't do that if there's a cap of getting 1 point per day for breeding - it doesn't matter if you breed one pair or 1000, you'd still only get 1 point. So there really isn't any incentive to breed your whole scroll. The same goes for naming or using certain BSAs.

[laertid]

Well, people won't do that if there's a cap of getting 1 point per day for breeding - it doesn't matter if you breed one pair or 1000, you'd still only get 1 point. So there really isn't any incentive to breed your whole scroll. The same goes for naming or using certain BSAs.

That can be the way, but then we'll have a EVE Online type thing (time-dependent skills\money\whatever, pretty sure it's not EVE-only, many browser games have this or something like this). Meaning the player who has been playing for, say, 1 year, will be always "richer" (in term of points) than player who has been playing for 10 months. Like this.

 

And the egg problem: even if people will breed 1 egg a day, there most likely will be AP blocked like a traffic jam in a Sunday evening. Because many players breed only on request, or when their expensive dragons (say, 2-nd or 3rd gen tinsel\shimmer) are off cooldown, or just when they feel like it, or whenever - but not every day. We have lots of people in DC. Imagine that each active player will breed an egg every day... aaand where it goes, most likely in the AP.

 

(Also, forgive me if I'm missing something in your post, but I kinda don't understand the way it will help with "naming dragons for points". Pretty sure there are people here who just don't like to name their dragons. So no points for them? Or "hatch something, name it, release it into the wilds" scheme?)

[MedievalMystic]

i dont support this.

 

we already get badges, lineages and sprites for normal activity.

 

 

i hoard and collect Gold Wyvrens, Nebulas, Moonstones and Prizes lines; not because i get something out of it (good trading fodder) but because i personally like those dragons.

 

for me, collecting the sprites and their lineages is enough of a reward. i dont need a special sprite rewarded to me for doing what i already do *shrugs*

And that pretty much sums up how I feel about this idea.

[olympe]

That can be the way, but then we'll have a EVE Online type thing (time-dependent skills\money\whatever, pretty sure it's not EVE-only, many browser games have this or something like this). Meaning the player who has been playing for, say, 1 year, will be always "richer" (in term of points) than player who has been playing for 10 months. Like this.

Yes, people who've been playing a year will be richer than those playing 10 months - unless the 1-year-player has "bought" something with his "money" in the meantime, or isn't all that active. But that's the way with everything, even the number of dragons on our scrolls or the amount of "precious" dragons we have. It's the way collectible games work.

 

And the egg problem: even if people will breed 1 egg a day, there most likely will be AP blocked like a traffic jam in a Sunday evening. Because many players breed only on request, or when their expensive dragons (say, 2-nd or 3rd gen tinsel\shimmer) are off cooldown, or just when they feel like it, or whenever - but not every day. We have lots of people in DC. Imagine that each active player will breed an egg every day... aaand where it goes, most likely in the AP.

It might, giving us back the 5 day eggs or even 4 day eggs. Incuhatchables will be picked up almost instantly if there is enough open scroll space. It's not as if the AP would block the biomes any more.

 

(Also, forgive me if I'm missing something in your post, but I kinda don't understand the way it will help with "naming dragons for points". Pretty sure there are people here who just don't like to name their dragons. So no points for them? Or "hatch something, name it, release it into the wilds" scheme?)

Nope. If you really don't want to name but feel you just have to get that additional point every day, you'll just name and then unname your dragon (by using "rename" and deleting the name). Simple as that.

[Tawanda001]

I don't really care for this unless it's implemented along with something like the store idea. This favors one type of game play over others.

For me personally it would not be a problem, as you can see by the size of my scroll.

However I can see that it would not be fair to those like Slaskia and to my daughter who has a similar type of play style.

One of the reasons she likes the game is the fact that she does not need to interact with other players (holidays are an exception), no clicking on other peoples scrolls, no picking up eggs others have bred, very little trading, and please do not ask her to kill or abandon or release one of 'her' dragons, not going to happen for the most part. So while I don't think she's a very 'active' player shes been playing for seven years and makes sure to get the new releases, but if the only way for her to earn points for a dragon is this, well it might take her another seven years to get enough points to get anything.

Meanwhile somebody like me is earning points left and right because my play style fits right in with this.

OTOH a mini game that doesn't involve any sort of interaction with other players or their dragons, doesn't make her change her play style to pick up or breed eggs she doesn't want, that would be right up her alley.

Edited January 19, 2015 by Tawanda001

[cyradis4]

I don't really care for this unless it's implemented along with something like the store idea. This favors one type of game play over others.

For me personally it would not be a problem, as you can see by the size of my scroll.

However I can see that it would not be fair to those like Slaskia and to my daughter who has a similar type of play style.

One of the reasons she likes the game is the fact that she does not need to interact with other players (holidays are an exception), no clicking on other peoples scrolls, no picking up eggs others have bred, very little trading, and please do not ask her to kill or abandon or release one of 'her' dragons, not going to happen for the most part. So while I don't think she's a very 'active' player shes been playing for seven years and makes sure to get the new releases, but if the only way for her to earn points for a dragon is this, well it might take her another seven years to get enough points to get anything.

Meanwhile somebody like me is earning points left and right because my play style fits right in with this.

OTOH a mini game that doesn't involve any sort of interaction with other players or their dragons, doesn't make her change her play style to pick up or breed eggs she doesn't want, that would be right up her alley.

I personally feel that the best way is to combine the two.

 

You can earn x mana in a week of play. Said mana can be earned by:

- Playing a mini-game

- Hatching / growing dragons

- some combination of the two

 

So that when you hit your limit of x for the week, you can't get more until the following week, but otherwise it has no effect on you.

 

That way, both play stiles are accommodated and gives people a lot of options.

 

Also, I think giving points for breeding an egg is.... not a good idea.

1 pt for hatching

1 pt for growing

2 extra pts if you bred, hatched, and grew the same egg?

 

Cheers!

C4.

[Fuzzbucket]

Also, I think giving points for breeding an egg is.... not a good idea.

1 pt for hatching

1 pt for growing

2 extra pts if you bred, hatched, and grew the same egg?

 

Cheers!

C4.

Works for me.

[LibbyLishly]

I personally feel that the best way is to combine the two.

 

You can earn x mana in a week of play. Said mana can be earned by:

- Playing a mini-game

- Hatching / growing dragons

- some combination of the two

 

So that when you hit your limit of x for the week, you can't get more until the following week, but otherwise it has no effect on you.

 

That way, both play styles are accommodated and gives people a lot of options.

 

Also, I think giving points for breeding an egg is.... not a good idea.

1 pt for hatching

1 pt for growing

2 extra pts if you bred, hatched, and grew the same egg?

 

Cheers!

C4.

I think this is the best approach, too - combining the minigame ideas with 'passive' point earning, with an overall cap that encompasses both. Your proposal as to how normal activity points should be awarded is my favorite so far. Nice and simple, with a bonus for keeping it all on your own scroll.

[Jazeki]

I personally feel that the best way is to combine the two.

 

You can earn x mana in a week of play. Said mana can be earned by:

- Playing a mini-game

- Hatching / growing dragons

- some combination of the two

 

So that when you hit your limit of x for the week, you can't get more until the following week, but otherwise it has no effect on you.

 

That way, both play stiles are accommodated and gives people a lot of options.

 

Also, I think giving points for breeding an egg is.... not a good idea.

1 pt for hatching

1 pt for growing

2 extra pts if you bred, hatched, and grew the same egg?

 

Cheers!

C4.

I like this combination.

[Slaskia]

I personally feel that the best way is to combine the two.

 

You can earn x mana in a week of play. Said mana can be earned by:

- Playing a mini-game

- Hatching / growing dragons

- some combination of the two

 

So that when you hit your limit of x for the week, you can't get more until the following week, but otherwise it has no effect on you.

 

That way, both play stiles are accommodated and gives people a lot of options.

 

Also, I think giving points for breeding an egg is.... not a good idea.

1 pt for hatching

1 pt for growing

2 extra pts if you bred, hatched, and grew the same egg?

 

Cheers!

C4.

I'm down with this. More choice is always good.

 

Especially if CB prizes are available as 'buying' option. I've always hated the idea of CB prizes only being available through a game of chance (raffle). It never should have happened, imo...and I would like the site to start moving away from that precedence.

[lightningsky]

only read OP & bits of thread//

 

I support this. So much.

The 1 point for hatching an egg & 1 point for freezing it or it growing to adult.

 

So basically, get points for playing Dragon Cave how you would anyways. I mean it makes sense, play the game to get even cooler goodies to play the game more. Right? I like it and it seems the least complicated of the other suggestions I've seen. This one rewards activity with the basic functions of the site. No need for fancy games and the such (even though mana alchemy wasn't fancy, to me) lol!

 

I would hope this system could award us with CB Alts, custom codes for commons, and *whispers*CB prizes*sshhh*...I'm -open- to the idea of exclusives (since it would be easy to accumulate points) but honestly, I can do without it 100%. There really is no need for those if we can receive all of what I listed.

[Syphoneira]

I personally feel that the best way is to combine the two.

 

You can earn x mana in a week of play. Said mana can be earned by:

- Playing a mini-game

- Hatching / growing dragons

- some combination of the two

 

So that when you hit your limit of x for the week, you can't get more until the following week, but otherwise it has no effect on you.

 

That way, both play stiles are accommodated and gives people a lot of options.

 

Also, I think giving points for breeding an egg is.... not a good idea.

1 pt for hatching

1 pt for growing

2 extra pts if you bred, hatched, and grew the same egg?

 

Cheers!

C4.

 

 

This would certainly suit my preference, ideally including some system of collecting points for (API-connected) fansite Viewing, such as I believe Sin has been working on, (or planning to, when real life allows) and which, if feasible, would also improve conditions for our growing dragons in the form of better Unique Views and the attendant faster hatching, maturing and adult times.

 

 

 

However, I would, if I may, like to add some general thoughts regarding various potential factors, which may affect possibilities.

 

 

If the outcome should be zero-sum, rather than cumulative 'play-at-your-own-pace', how does a cap function, unless along the lines of regarding whoever hits an ultimate cap amount first is the one to win, making this into a rushed slog for some, and simply hopeless for others, or making this a draw entry, similar to the Raffle, or?

 

I've no idea, but I expect some of you brilliant others do.

 

 

I am, of course, merely speculating, but I wonder whether TJ would have failed to include Hollies (the quintessential DC Christmas dragon, which was almost extinct in CB form when he initially reintroduced the Holly as an HM option,) as an optional choice in the Raffle, (I would guess - and am indeed assuming - in order to ameliorate various ongoing issues by expanding the number of Prizes this year,) unless he had some idea of opening another avenue of making these available to the community.

 

At this point, it would seem quite possible that the Raffle will, as was seen this year, in future be for Prizes alone and that either some alternate method of obtaining these previous HMs, potentially such as one of those variously presented on Suggestion threads such as this or some hybrid of suggestions from among them, would be incorporated into DC *or that these previous HM options may otherwise perhaps no longer be made accessible to the players in any form*.

 

While we have no means of knowing TJ's plans, it would behoove us to work together to find and support whatever would be (to most) the most preferable/least objectionable manner in which what were previously HMs could be distributed, rather than have the iconic Holly population again become subject to attrition.

 

There were no additions to the CB Holly population from the Raffle this year, and even if TJ should be working on a plan, whether or not based on ideas from one or more suggestion(s), this would take time to implement and for people to 'earn' dragons from it, and the next breeding season could well go by prior to any new increase in the CB Holly pool, potentially making this a 2-year setback, at best.

 

(Certainly, there are other dragons of interest involved; however I'm focusing on the Holly for a number of reasons which should be evident to anyone playing at DC for any length of time. )

 

While many of us would like to see some simple time-waster game similar to Mana Alchemy available onsite, many of us would prefer to have options beyond playing a game within a game to 'earn' otherwise unobtainable dragons, and this 'play to earn' suggestion happens to be one a number of us like.

 

IF I recall correctly, on another thread TJ stated something to the effect of believing that distribution would need to be zero-sum in order to prevent inflation which, in the case of games being chosen as the mechanism, I'd suspect strongly limits chances of obtaining such dragons to those who happen to be good at these particular games and/or have the time and inclination to play them as long/much as they please/need.

 

With zero-sum, the limits on points gained in the direction of this Suggestion (intended to be cumulative so that everyone could 'earn' dragons eventually) would, I should think, be more strongly dependent on time available to spend on DC.

 

Unfortunately, as far as I can see, (granted, chronically half-asleep with eyelids at half-mast,) zero-sum turns everything into a bit of a treadmill, on top of the rest...

 

Of course, I have no idea of what's actually going on, these are merely some (rather sleep-deprived, lol) observations on some things I've seen.

 

And, worst case scenario, we can simply ignore the whole point/mana/whatever thing and proceed as normal.

 

So, I dunno, but if any one or parts of any/all of these Suggestions should become the only means of DC maintaining or increasing the population of what have been HMs the past few years, having something acceptable to the bulk of us hashed out could, potentially, make quite a difference.

 

But if TJ's potentially going with zero sum, how does this affect what we've been brainstorming on regarding this 'play-at-your-own-pace' idea, I wonder?

 

Certainly NOT suggesting that it be abandoned - I like it best myself and am not happy with the zero-sum possibility - but I do think that alternatives for such a scenario should perhaps *also* be considered along with it, so that perhaps more palatable compromises could be available to propose in any such event?

[olympe]

I don't think zero sum is going to work...

[Slaskia]

Hm...I just realized something. If we limit 'points' to hatchling eggs and raising dragons to adulthood, that may put those that breed to gift/abandon at a disadvantage.

 

For instance, yesterday I did a rare spurt of mass breeding prize dragons with the intent to gift the shiny results in the Departure thread. Out of 21 dragons, I got 13 eggs, 7 of those being prizes: I abandoned the prize fails.

 

Since I abandoned/gifted the results, I would have gotten no points for this 'activity'. Perhaps instead, there should be a cap on how many points we can gain each day (or week) via breeding itself?

[Fuzzbucket]

Hm...I just realized something. If we limit 'points' to hatchling eggs and raising dragons to adulthood, that may put those that breed to gift/abandon at a disadvantage.

 

For instance, yesterday I did a rare spurt of mass breeding prize dragons with the intent to gift the shiny results in the Departure thread. Out of 21 dragons, I got 13 eggs, 7 of those being prizes: I abandoned the prize fails.

 

Since I abandoned/gifted the results, I would have gotten no points for this 'activity'. Perhaps instead, there should be a cap on how many points we can gain each day (or week) via breeding itself?

Didn't someone say no points just for breeding - only for raising ?

[Slaskia]

Didn't someone say no points just for breeding - only for raising ?

Aye, that's what I am disputing. I don't raise many dragons aside from spurts during new releases. While I rarely breed, when I do, it's sometimes not for myself (aside from a couple of lineage projects and that's only two dragons a week...both said lineage projects are at a standstill right now due to a streak of 'no interest' results ).

 

I'm just trying to eliminate disadvantages due to playstyle, that's all.

[Syphoneira]

All I can say is, I mostly breed to gift and can understand not giving points for breeding.

 

Points for raising dragons is good, and I'd like to see points for fansite Viewing, which would also benefit our dragons hatching/gendering/growing up times.

 

 

 

Edit: lol, said I CAN understand NOT giving points for breeding - waaaaay too many problems!

 

I'm big on keeping things simple, being rather simple-minded myself!

Edited January 19, 2015 by Syphoneira

[cyradis4]

All I can say is, I mostly breed to gift and can understand not giving points for breeding.

 

Points for raising dragons is good, and I'd like to see points for fansite Viewing, which would also benefit our dragons hatching/gendering/growing up times.

Ok, here's why giving points for breeding probably isn't a good idea, unless there's a weekly cap to the number of points you can get:

 

- Person Mint decides to troll the AP and gain lots of points

- Person Mint goes and breeds every single Mint they have, sending 600 Mints straight to the AP

- Person Mint collects 600 pts

- Person APHunter spends several hours unhappily looking through 600 messy Mints before going to do something else

 

Perhaps if there was a limit, say... you only get the point if the egg stays on your scroll for several seconds, so that auto'ed eggs don't count?

 

Cheers!

C4.

[SolarCat]

Then maybe add points for one-way teleports, too?

If you want to reward people for gifting.

 

This would still exclude those who breed nice things to abandon, but I don't see a way to add this into consideration without also rewarding mass breeding (some of which is nice and some of which is not). The people who breed to abandon aren't looking for rewards at all anyway, though, or they'd be setting up trade links instead, even if just to receive that "Thank you!" via PM.

[olympe]

Well, I suggested this with a cap.

 

You get 1 point (or whatever amount you deem suitable) for breeding at least once a day. You won't get more than 1 point per day for breeding. If you breed 1 mint, it's 1 point. If you breed 1000 mints, you still only get 1 point total from breeding. (Why would you want to breed that many then?)

 

I'd suggest the same kind of feature for catching an egg (equality, lol) and using the teleport BSA of one of your dragons. (Hey, trading and gifting can be a very nice thing. And you're much more likely to find a taker if you gift something nice than when you trade. So, in essence, this promotes mostly gifting.)

[Syphoneira]

Well, I suggested this with a cap.

 

You get 1 point (or whatever amount you deem suitable) for breeding at least once a day. You won't get more than 1 point per day for breeding. If you breed 1 mint, it's 1 point. If you breed 1000 mints, you still only get 1 point total from breeding. (Why would you want to breed that many then?)

 

I'd suggest the same kind of feature for catching an egg (equality, lol) and using the teleport BSA of one of your dragons. (Hey, trading and gifting can be a very nice thing. And you're much more likely to find a taker if you gift something nice than when you trade. So, in essence, this promotes mostly gifting.)

 

 

I could go with that although, as actually stated, despite mostly breeding to gift, I'm fine with no points for breeding.

 

It's also been suggested that the cap be 7 points a week, for those who can't play often/do weekly breedings, and that, if feasible, would make even more sense.

 

But on the other hand, the simpler the better - although, on that 3rd hand I have around here somewhere, it would also have to be related to however many points people prospectively got on games, if a mix of mechanisms was being considered, so additional points for the things you mentioned might be downright necessary - which also means I don't have to search out that extra hand!

[LibbyLishly]

I don't know if anyone else has suggested it, but perhaps the cap could be the total number of eggs a gold trophy scroll could possibly hatch in one week with incubate (someone who is better at math than I am can figure out that number; I was an English major and I am too tired right now to bother). The cap could be reached faster by having hatchlings grow up or using any of the other proposed methods - e.g., minigame if incorporated, using teleport, breed/hatch/grow a dragon exclusively on your scroll. That way people who don't participate in trades, who like to freeze, etc. aren't penalized, and at the same time, the cap is high enough that you do have to be regularly active to reach it (7 points seems quite low to me).

[Vhale]

I don't know if anyone else has suggested it, but perhaps the cap could be the total number of eggs a gold trophy scroll could possibly hatch in one week with incubate (someone who is better at math than I am can figure out that number; I was an English major and I am too tired right now to bother). The cap could be reached faster by having hatchlings grow up or using any of the other proposed methods - e.g., minigame if incorporated, using teleport, breed/hatch/grow a dragon exclusively on your scroll. That way people who don't participate in trades, who like to freeze, etc. aren't penalized, and at the same time, the cap is high enough that you do have to be regularly active to reach it (7 points seems quite low to me).

Yes, it would then penalize people doing neglected, vamps and some lineages as you have to wait for the other person to take the egg.

 

Bear in mind while talking about points is that they are relative. 7 points is low if the dragon costs 5,000. It's high if the dragon costs 10. It may be best to talk in points as, average daily activity can achieve a dragon in x number of months.

Edited January 20, 2015 by Vhale

[LibbyLishly]

Yes, it would then penalize people doing neglected, vamps and some lineages as you have to wait for the other person to take the egg.

 

Bear in mind while talking about points is that they are relative. 7 points is low if the dragon costs 5,000. It's high if the dragon costs 10. It may be best to talk in points as, average daily activity can achieve a dragon in x number of months.

You're right, and I do realize that. It would also penalize those who are under gold trophy level, if you look at it that way, so the "who-is-it-penalizing" approach obviously cannot be the only approach we take. That's why I suggested specifically the cap working around egg hatching, not how many eggs can you hatch + how many hatchlings can you raise + 12 teleports or what have you. Just a base number that will make sense to most people and whereby you aren't limited simply to that activity. This is just me explaining my reasoning, not necessarily saying, "This is the way it must BE!"

 

In my mind, dragon prices should be high - it should (again, according to me) take six months to a year of reaching the weekly cap to obtain a CB Prize. Seeing prices in the thousands makes sense to me, possibly more (again, I don't feel like mathing).

 

But I'm not particularly married to any ideas at this point.