The (un)Official IOU Suggestion Thread

[Fuzzbucket]

I can understand shooting the idea down because of the fact everyone values tings differently, but I do think you guys have the ability to work out a scale. I base my scale on what i see when i hunt, and what I am able to breed. You guys are awesome at your ability to work out when things are wrong (tracking fail breeding with luminas, and bite statistics) and Im positive you guys can work out relative rarities.

 

 

At the very least, I did try to come up with an idea to give you guys a proper arguement towards making ious official, and maybe its possible that my insanity will trigger better forum based guidelines for whats ok. Its only one option, theres plenty out there, and if you guys want them back, you'll find a way to make it work. My option focuses on forum side because i do not believe tj should have to code ious into the main site.

Nor do I. But I cannot see a value system worked out that would be acceptable to everyone. I think it WOULD end up being personal - just as - in effect - IOUs - and all trades ! - are at present. And even if a BSA is set up - lovely thought ! - it will still not stop people IOUing in private.

 

I favour them staying as they are - and I think the idea of having an auto- correct as SolarCat suggested is a good one.

 

If there is a way to make them official. I think individual valuations set on trades - including IOUs - will have to stay. Because TJ has ALWAYS said - and I believe he always will - that there are no commons/uncommons and that rarity is all in our tiny minds. No, I don't quite believe it either. But I know that in my own mind, some things that are supposed to be common are VERY hard to find at times....

 

Also of course - they haven't gone. They just aren't "official". I actually don't get why that matters, but others mind, so...

[arlymaye]

..........What I think is best here is really to design a new set of rules (between everyone, mods and users) clarifying exactly whats ok and whats not ok for ious.....

 

 

.........No, this doesnt make it any "safer" to engage in ious, no it doesnt build it into the game. All this does is at least build a guideline for what /could/ be ok to ask for in the event we can settle on a set of guidelines

So, in essence IOUs are not allowed in the official DC trading thread now is because we lack a reference point as to what can be IOU'ed and what cannot be? But I don't really see a need to enforce such a strict guidelines on trades at all. Trading is between two individual member and whatever value of their trades are assigned between the two person. No matter how much we try to set a certain value on certain breeds, people will always see it differently. TJ has many times said that there are no clear designation on breed's rarity on DC. While we may assign each breed's their status, we simply cannot use it as a yardstick to determine whether one trade has a better fulfillment chance than the other.

[Thuban]

Arly: Not what i said at all. The reasons ious arent around has been hashed half to death already. What i was trying to suggest is the users coming up with their own system/suggestions/guidelines to pitch to the forum mods, to convince them that allowing iou trades to come back can work. Having some form of guidelines that /you/ guys can agree on is a great way to give your mods room to wiggle for allowing them. Im not trying to encourage "us vs them" mentality at all. I rather enjoy modding by what users define the rules as, my old forums worked out great with that mindset. My channels on the irc work well in that mindset to. #dragonlotto rules are what my users decided the rules should be, with a few things i added in to adjust for some problems that were coming up.

 

I wasnt giving hard set number. I was giving possible "up to this number of this rarity at most" examples. You could still ask for whatever you wanted pretty much, if you value 8th gens as mch as 2nd gens, more power to you.

 

Kishing: no, you could trade based on your values, my examples were using cbs as the example base rate since those are /usually/ most desired. Bred ones should be considered equal in terms of breed, but longer lines have less demand. I wasnt choosing to weigh demand in on the example scale. What i was doing was giving "at most" on a scale of cbs based on my own personal scale of trade, since my example /was/ using my scale.

 

Getting caught up in the details is a bit difficult because obviously its something that would need its own thread to work out the kinks. All this idea is supposed to break down to is "create a forum based economy on a system you guys agree on". If you want to go with what TJ has supposedly said, then obviously All eggs that arent considered rares should be able to be swapped 1:1 and (example) askig for offering 3 of any of those eggs for a rare should be fine. asking for more than 3 non rare dragons for you rare would be in the iou catagory, so at what point do the mods cut off the number you can ask for. Im challanging you guys to set those numbers. if 27 commons is ok for a rare based on a scale, then anything after 30 would be outside of the allowed ious, and something a mod /could/ mod.

 

If you guys genuinely want to discuss this out as an option to figure out if its something that could work or not, I dont mind trying to work out the kinks in pm and making a new thread.. But i wont be hijacking this suggestion any further. this thread wants to gather ideas for working them into the site. The idea's details don't need worked out /here/. it buries other ideas if we continue.

[Fuzzbucket]

I can see that people seem to want this all to become an "official" part of the game. I can't say I mind one way or the other,and sometimes having detailed rules, rather than leaving things private, can make things so codified that something that worked OK in private becomes illegal.

 

But because this thread is about encouraging the mods to allow of some guidelines we can put together, in order "legitimise" IOUs in threads (I THINK that is what is being asked for ?) we need to look at HOW to make it work. I would have said the IDEAL was by BSA - and that the two people involved would then set their own values within that. That almost means no need for "values" all to be hashed out regularly in threads.

 

Given the totally subjective nature of VALUE - it seems to me that there are otherwise two possibilities. One would be that each person interested has their OWN scale of values in their profile. If I like yours and you like mine we can probably work something out.

 

The other is indeed some kind of thread here with a list of what you might call base values. I cannot begin to imagine how to set those up, or who would do it (I know I would disagree with some people's view of some dragons !) and the scales could not IMHO be "legally enforceable" (and the mods CANNOT have to police any of this.) The "values" would also need to change - probably quite often. And people would have to be free to make their own offers (so I would VERY much like to see that autocorrect thing for IOU !)

 

But something like Thuban's post:

 

Hatchie for hatchie, egg for egg: a reasonable rate of exchange would be:

 

2-3 caveblockers = 1 common (seasonals, some bsa)

 

6-9 commons = 3 uncommons = 1 rare (cb blusang, gw, stripe, bred metals)

 

3-5 rare = 1 ultra rare

 

And maybe another bit saying that hatchies have added value - as in worth more than an egg if influenced, alt, the right colour nebbie and so on.

 

Leaving aside who says what dragon is in which group, here we hit another hiccup though.

 

If this is a DC "rate of exchange" - why does it not apply to ALL trades. At which point we risk some kind of DC stock exchange.... And that is why I...

 

...but that is for another thread !

Edited January 12, 2013 by fuzzbucket

[cyradis4]

I would strongly object to any sort of system that forced me to trade my eggs / hatchlings for a certain value. I would, in fact, stop trading.

 

I do not value some things others love. I love some things others think aren't worth much. Sometimes I'm willing to offer / accept a lot more / less for something I could easily get myself because I want it *right then*.

 

IOUs are personal and I feel need to stay personal. If I'm forced to publicly announce them, I'm not going to do them. Period. I've never failed to complete an IOU (except one where the user went inactive when the egg finally arrived, and I'll still complete it once she's back), and I've had several IOUs owed to me which have never arrived. I've some I"m still working on, too.

 

Having it optional to show the IOU, yes, and yes I'd probably make some visible. Having some sort of rating system using the BSA I suggested, sure.

 

Have an in-cave currency? Sure.

 

Assign values to dragons? No. Force people to "register" their IOUs? No.

[Thuban]

I would strongly object to any sort of system that forced me to trade my eggs / hatchlings for a certain value. I would, in fact, stop trading.

 

I do not value some things others love. I love some things others think aren't worth much. Sometimes I'm willing to offer / accept a lot more / less for something I could easily get myself because I want it *right then*.

 

IOUs are personal and I feel need to stay personal. If I'm forced to publicly announce them, I'm not going to do them. Period. I've never failed to complete an IOU (except one where the user went inactive when the egg finally arrived, and I'll still complete it once she's back), and I've had several IOUs owed to me which have never arrived. I've some I"m still working on, too.

 

Having it optional to show the IOU, yes, and yes I'd probably make some visible. Having some sort of rating system using the BSA I suggested, sure.

 

Have an in-cave currency? Sure.

 

Assign values to dragons? No. Force people to "register" their IOUs? No.

Thank you.

 

I did stop trading for a long time after iou advertisements were banned in the chat, because I didnt agree with the way they were banned. It seems as though people can agree that offering things in hand for ious is ok, and that offering to hunt or breed is a bit more fuzzy.

 

Yes values need to be per person, my idea wasnt exactly for a hard set value system, more of a general guideline the "users" come up with, that the mods could use for coming up with what is acceptable to be offered as ious. Obviously, setting up ious for hollies in feb shouldnt be able to be offered this soon.

 

In cave currency... im sort of against. This site is pretty much about trading dragons.. so they would have to be considered the currency, until a day that onsite currency is built in. Im also not a fan of iou trading being built into the site. However, if someone comes up with a concept that has a well thought out BSA that can work, then sure, by all means I could support it being worked in. I would rather see a concept designed for the purpose, rather than trying to force an exisiting concept in cave to do it.

 

Im also against having contracts, or registration for ious. Its up to the people involved in the trade to work it out. Having something public would be a waste of forum space.

[Fuzzbucket]

I rather agree with cyradis4 - but since this is a thread about how to make it work and we have been asked NOT to say we don't want it to without at least carrying on the discussion (and since I am already carrying a warn from another thread ) I was trying to be constructive - as if it does happen, I would rather it happened in a way that didn't mean I would just feel like leaving !

 

And an in cave currency with set values would do that for me. UGH. But one via BSA - OK. And one with individually user set values - OK too.

[Pixxelation]

Here's an idea:

 

On teleport, under the offers, is the ability to offer an IOU. You select a male, female, and which gender's egg you owe. Under IOU is a CB IOU thing where you choose the breed you owe.

 

On your scroll, there is a quill and ink badge, and when anyone clicks it, it shows a list of what you owe, and to whom, as well as who owes you what. It shows the username or, in itallics, anonymous, and when the IOU was made. When accepting an IOU, you can choose to appear anonymous or have your name visible on the person's list.

 

 

 

 

Would this be a way to make IOUs officially part of the game without them being binding?

Quoting this because it got buried.

 

Basically, it would expand on teleport, while not making IOUs binding. The best part is that your lsit would be public, so you could see if someone is reliable on their IOUs.

[Pokemonfan13]

Two weeks is absolutely no time at all. Absolutely no way should it just auto cancel if a user is inactive for just two weeks- what if a family member dies and they're offline, or their internet gets canceled or finals happen- heck, I live in China and I'm like to lose connection just because for that long. If the person breeds or obtains the IOU egg and the reciever is inacitve and fails to pick up the egg it should cancel because tat's unfair, but it shouldn't auto-cancel just because they've been offline for a bit.

....temporarily cancel. IE it comes back when the person comes back.

 

 

 

Edit: Just read the pages that appeared while I was gone. x3

 

 

A value system just seems more trouble than its worth, and I am totally lost as to why setting a value on everything would allow IOUs to come back. A value system that is anything more than a rough guideline would have to constantly be updated as breeds' rarity fluctuates, and nobody would agree on the values either.

Edited January 12, 2013 by Pokemonfan13

[paradoxangel]

Would it be possible to have, for example, a link under where you offer what you have in a teleport, that instead says Make IOU Offer

 

When this link is clicked, it takes you to another page with up to four empty boxes (because you can teleport four things, so to keep it consistent, you can't offer more than 4 IOUs at a time)

 

and you click the empty boxes and select an egg type (or a hatchling type), whether or not it is CB, lineaged or doesn't matter (could be labeled as ANY)

 

and then you submit it.

 

To help make IOUs more regulated, you don't get eggs snapped off your scroll once bred, you aren't forced to hand them over, etc. But instead, you can only make a limited number of accepted IOU offers. After you reach your cap, you can no longer offer IOUs on trade links. Will this prevent people from taking it to PM? No, but honestly they do that now anyway and you are just as likely to be screwed over. However, not being able to make IOU requests over links is probably a good indicator of how good someone is about paying back their IOUs promptly.

 

I would recommend not setting this number ridiculously low either- people who have IOUs for metals and things are obviously going to take longer, and making them use 1 of 4 IOU slots to do it is just going to make people grouchy. I would recommend something along the lines of 16- four whole IOU slots on four different people, which seems like more than enough for anybody who is actively working at paying back IOUs.

 

The good part of this idea is that you are going to be able to offer CB things as IOUs, not just stuff you bred. Additionally, there is a small way you are tracked in how good you are at repaying IOUs, but it's not public or shaming, but does serve a purpose in keeping you honest (because after a point, you simply cannot make anymore via teleport.)

 

The cons? I'm sure you'll come up with plenty. It's probably not as public or binding as some people would like, but again, making it that binding and public will be seen as incredibly rude, invasive and unlikeable by many people who play this game. To get IOUs back, we need to be willing to compromise on some fronts. Give a little leniency and trust to the people making these IOUs- you have to in IOU situations ANYWAY. If you're ever in doubt on how well you can trust someone, you can always say, please make that IOU offer on this teleport link. If they can't do it, you probably can't trust them to fulfill their IOU (or at least not promptly)

 

 

(Because I'm not great at telling but decent at showing, I'm including a crappy drawing of what I mean below for the form)

 

 

 

Offer on this teleport

 

 

[input password here]

 

Please select up to four eggs or hatchlings to be offered.

 

[]

 

[]

 

[]

 

>Make IOU Offer< []

 

 

Clicking Make IOU Offer brings you to a page like this:

 

[] [drop down window to select egg/hatchling][drop down window for breed][drop down window for CB/Lineaged/ANY]

[] (same for above)

[] (same for above)

[] (same for above)

 

 

 

After you make an IOU trade and it is accepted, you can go into "active teleports" once you get the promised egg/hatchling/whatever, click on the still active IOU teleport, and click a button that says, submit IOU trade. From there you select an egg/hatchling on your scroll to send off. The system checks if this egg/hatchling matches what is owed in this trade. If so, the system checks to see if there is room on your trade partner's scroll, and deposits the trade if there is (and this is very important) SAYS SO IN BIG LETTERS ON THE SCROLL THAT A TRADE HAS BEEN COMPLETED, and by whom (for either a limited timeframe, or until you click the words, so it isn't there forever). This way, if you are IOU'd a mint, but you frequently take IOUs for mints, you know both that 1. you didn't accidentally pick that up from the AP, it was a trade you accepted and 2. you know that player A sent you the mint and not player B or C.

 

If the recipient does not have room on their scroll, the egg/hatchling is not sent, and instead stays on your scroll.

 

Perhaps you can attempt to resend your egg/hatchling X number of times every X days (EXample. You try every 24 hours for 4 days to send off an egg, the person is locked every time.) (maybe this even varies between hatchlings and eggs, obviously hatchlings have less time to try to send them) and after that point, it nullifies your active IOU trade because hey, you /tried/. (this part is only a suggestion!)

 

Additionally, in your active teleports section, you can see all IOU trades owed to you, and by whom. Perhaps you can get alerts in there, such as "X has attempted to send you mint egg, (1) times, but your scroll was full.) The alerts could help you in case you are worried about missing incoming IOUs because you are locked.

 

>Attempting to send IOUs via this network, with the counting system that counts up how many times someone tries to send an egg over so many days only counts up when it's the same egg/hatchling.

Example: Someone attempts to send a mint egg twice (out of say, four attempts) but then forgets and it grows up. They get a new mint egg and attempts to send it. The count for how many times you attempted to send this restarts at 1 because it is a new egg.

 

 

 

The only part I don't have a simple explanation/solution for is, if you do select lineaged, how do you indicate lineage you intend to supply?

 

Anyway, sorry for the horrible rendering above.

 

[Karma1981]

I like Paradoxangel's idea..it seems well thought out and fairly easy to create and add to the site i would think

[brairtrainer]

Would it be possible to have, for example, a link under where you offer what you have in a teleport, that instead says Make IOU Offer

 

When this link is clicked, it takes you to another page with up to four empty boxes (because you can teleport four things, so to keep it consistent, you can't offer more than 4 IOUs at a time)

 

and you click the empty boxes and select an egg type (or a hatchling type), whether or not it is CB, lineaged or doesn't matter (could be labeled as ANY)

 

and then you submit it.

 

To help make IOUs more regulated, you don't get eggs snapped off your scroll once bred, you aren't forced to hand them over, etc. But instead, you can only make a limited number of accepted IOU offers. After you reach your cap, you can no longer offer IOUs on trade links. Will this prevent people from taking it to PM? No, but honestly they do that now anyway and you are just as likely to be screwed over. However, not being able to make IOU requests over links is probably a good indicator of how good someone is about paying back their IOUs promptly.

 

I would recommend not setting this number ridiculously low either- people who have IOUs for metals and things are obviously going to take longer, and making them use 1 of 4 IOU slots to do it is just going to make people grouchy. I would recommend something along the lines of 16- four whole IOU slots on four different people, which seems like more than enough for anybody who is actively working at paying back IOUs.

 

The good part of this idea is that you are going to be able to offer CB things as IOUs, not just stuff you bred. Additionally, there is a small way you are tracked in how good you are at repaying IOUs, but it's not public or shaming, but does serve a purpose in keeping you honest (because after a point, you simply cannot make anymore via teleport.)

 

The cons? I'm sure you'll come up with plenty. It's probably not as public or binding as some people would like, but again, making it that binding and public will be seen as incredibly rude, invasive and unlikeable by many people who play this game. To get IOUs back, we need to be willing to compromise on some fronts. Give a little leniency and trust to the people making these IOUs- you have to in IOU situations ANYWAY. If you're ever in doubt on how well you can trust someone, you can always say, please make that IOU offer on this teleport link. If they can't do it, you probably can't trust them to fulfill their IOU (or at least not promptly)

 

 

(Because I'm not great at telling but decent at showing, I'm including a crappy drawing of what I mean below for the form)

 

 

 

Offer on this teleport

 

 

[input password here]

 

Please select up to four eggs or hatchlings to be offered.

 

[]

 

[]

 

[]

 

>Make IOU Offer< []

 

 

Clicking Make IOU Offer brings you to a page like this:

 

[] [drop down window to select egg/hatchling][drop down window for breed][drop down window for CB/Lineaged/ANY]

[] (same for above)

[] (same for above)

[] (same for above)

 

 

 

After you make an IOU trade and it is accepted, you can go into "active teleports" once you get the promised egg/hatchling/whatever, click on the still active IOU teleport, and click a button that says, submit IOU trade. From there you select an egg/hatchling on your scroll to send off. The system checks if this egg/hatchling matches what is owed in this trade. If so, the system checks to see if there is room on your trade partner's scroll, and deposits the trade if there is (and this is very important) SAYS SO IN BIG LETTERS ON THE SCROLL THAT A TRADE HAS BEEN COMPLETED, and by whom (for either a limited timeframe, or until you click the words, so it isn't there forever). This way, if you are IOU'd a mint, but you frequently take IOUs for mints, you know both that 1. you didn't accidentally pick that up from the AP, it was a trade you accepted and 2. you know that player A sent you the mint and not player B or C.

 

If the recipient does not have room on their scroll, the egg/hatchling is not sent, and instead stays on your scroll.

 

Perhaps you can attempt to resend your egg/hatchling X number of times every X days (EXample. You try every 24 hours for 4 days to send off an egg, the person is locked every time.) (maybe this even varies between hatchlings and eggs, obviously hatchlings have less time to try to send them) and after that point, it nullifies your active IOU trade because hey, you /tried/. (this part is only a suggestion!)

 

Additionally, in your active teleports section, you can see all IOU trades owed to you, and by whom. Perhaps you can get alerts in there, such as "X has attempted to send you mint egg, (1) times, but your scroll was full.) The alerts could help you in case you are worried about missing incoming IOUs because you are locked.

 

>Attempting to send IOUs via this network, with the counting system that counts up how many times someone tries to send an egg over so many days only counts up when it's the same egg/hatchling.

Example: Someone attempts to send a mint egg twice (out of say, four attempts) but then forgets and it grows up. They get a new mint egg and attempts to send it. The count for how many times you attempted to send this restarts at 1 because it is a new egg.

 

 

 

The only part I don't have a simple explanation/solution for is, if you do select lineaged, how do you indicate lineage you intend to supply?

 

Anyway, sorry for the horrible rendering above.

I think that if you supply lineaged you should specify the parents. Then the person knows what to expect.

[paradoxangel]

I agree, brair.

[TheGrox]

I actually really like paradoxangel's idea c:

[Pixxelation]

Would it be possible to have, for example, a link under where you offer what you have in a teleport, that instead says Make IOU Offer

 

When this link is clicked, it takes you to another page with up to four empty boxes (because you can teleport four things, so to keep it consistent, you can't offer more than 4 IOUs at a time)

 

and you click the empty boxes and select an egg type (or a hatchling type), whether or not it is CB, lineaged or doesn't matter (could be labeled as ANY)

 

and then you submit it.

 

To help make IOUs more regulated, you don't get eggs snapped off your scroll once bred, you aren't forced to hand them over, etc. But instead, you can only make a limited number of accepted IOU offers. After you reach your cap, you can no longer offer IOUs on trade links. Will this prevent people from taking it to PM? No, but honestly they do that now anyway and you are just as likely to be screwed over. However, not being able to make IOU requests over links is probably a good indicator of how good someone is about paying back their IOUs promptly.

 

I would recommend not setting this number ridiculously low either- people who have IOUs for metals and things are obviously going to take longer, and making them use 1 of 4 IOU slots to do it is just going to make people grouchy. I would recommend something along the lines of 16- four whole IOU slots on four different people, which seems like more than enough for anybody who is actively working at paying back IOUs.

 

The good part of this idea is that you are going to be able to offer CB things as IOUs, not just stuff you bred. Additionally, there is a small way you are tracked in how good you are at repaying IOUs, but it's not public or shaming, but does serve a purpose in keeping you honest (because after a point, you simply cannot make anymore via teleport.)

 

The cons? I'm sure you'll come up with plenty. It's probably not as public or binding as some people would like, but again, making it that binding and public will be seen as incredibly rude, invasive and unlikeable by many people who play this game. To get IOUs back, we need to be willing to compromise on some fronts. Give a little leniency and trust to the people making these IOUs- you have to in IOU situations ANYWAY. If you're ever in doubt on how well you can trust someone, you can always say, please make that IOU offer on this teleport link. If they can't do it, you probably can't trust them to fulfill their IOU (or at least not promptly)

 

 

(Because I'm not great at telling but decent at showing, I'm including a crappy drawing of what I mean below for the form)

 

 

 

Offer on this teleport

 

 

[input password here]

 

Please select up to four eggs or hatchlings to be offered.

 

[]

 

[]

 

[]

 

>Make IOU Offer< []

 

 

Clicking Make IOU Offer brings you to a page like this:

 

[] [drop down window to select egg/hatchling][drop down window for breed][drop down window for CB/Lineaged/ANY]

[] (same for above)

[] (same for above)

[] (same for above)

 

 

 

After you make an IOU trade and it is accepted, you can go into "active teleports" once you get the promised egg/hatchling/whatever, click on the still active IOU teleport, and click a button that says, submit IOU trade. From there you select an egg/hatchling on your scroll to send off. The system checks if this egg/hatchling matches what is owed in this trade. If so, the system checks to see if there is room on your trade partner's scroll, and deposits the trade if there is (and this is very important) SAYS SO IN BIG LETTERS ON THE SCROLL THAT A TRADE HAS BEEN COMPLETED, and by whom (for either a limited timeframe, or until you click the words, so it isn't there forever). This way, if you are IOU'd a mint, but you frequently take IOUs for mints, you know both that 1. you didn't accidentally pick that up from the AP, it was a trade you accepted and 2. you know that player A sent you the mint and not player B or C.

 

If the recipient does not have room on their scroll, the egg/hatchling is not sent, and instead stays on your scroll.

 

Perhaps you can attempt to resend your egg/hatchling X number of times every X days (EXample. You try every 24 hours for 4 days to send off an egg, the person is locked every time.) (maybe this even varies between hatchlings and eggs, obviously hatchlings have less time to try to send them) and after that point, it nullifies your active IOU trade because hey, you /tried/. (this part is only a suggestion!)

 

Additionally, in your active teleports section, you can see all IOU trades owed to you, and by whom. Perhaps you can get alerts in there, such as "X has attempted to send you mint egg, (1) times, but your scroll was full.) The alerts could help you in case you are worried about missing incoming IOUs because you are locked.

 

>Attempting to send IOUs via this network, with the counting system that counts up how many times someone tries to send an egg over so many days only counts up when it's the same egg/hatchling.

Example: Someone attempts to send a mint egg twice (out of say, four attempts) but then forgets and it grows up. They get a new mint egg and attempts to send it. The count for how many times you attempted to send this restarts at 1 because it is a new egg.

 

 

 

The only part I don't have a simple explanation/solution for is, if you do select lineaged, how do you indicate lineage you intend to supply?

 

Anyway, sorry for the horrible rendering above.

This could work in conjunction with my idea. That would fix the issue on lineage. Also, I think a public list would help to show reliability of a person. Maybe only show the eggs owed to you when you view the list without /user at the end.

 

Instead of a link, I think the IOU things should just be listed with eggs/hatchies at the bottom.

[xeyla]

I actually really like paradoxangel's idea c:

I second this! I think its well thought out, and I would totally use it, if it were implemented.

[paradoxangel]

My biggest problem with a public list is, more than for reliability reasons, it's going to be used to SHAME people.

 

It's going to turn into, oh, you owe 8/16 possible IOUs. Why is that?

 

Instead of someone going, oh, you have an available IOU or four to use, awesome we can make this work, they are going to pass on a trade because someone has more IOUs than the average DC user. And if a user goes inactive, things won't breed, tragedies happen and one or more parties are away for a time?

 

I just would really rather not see it turned into a shaming tool. Many people want it to keep people honest and show how reliable they are, and I get it, I really do, it sucks waiting on IOUs you can't be sure are going to come in. But putting up a list anyone can look at so they can see how long it's taken user X to catch user Z a cb white egg and JUDGE them based on that seems incredibly wrong. Which brings me to another point. You're going to be able to see who and what all is involved in someone else's trade business.

 

I don't think it's anyone else's business how player x handles a trade with player z. For all you know, those players had a falling out, and they've permanently reneged on a trade with them. That shouldn't influence their play with every single other person on this site. (This doesn't even begin to get into, someone trying and failing for 20 breedings in a row to produce an egg, something that isn't even remotely their fault.)

 

I would love to see how well other players do at handling their IOUs, all the same, though, without doing something that seems like invading their play style or privacy. Perhaps we could compromise in a less-invasive way? Instead of looking at their actual past or current IOUs, we could have an trades stats page for each player?

 

Example:

 

Player: paradoxangel

Total trades since 2013 (or implementation date): 34

Dragon that has teleported the most: Blah blah magi friend

Total completed IOU trades: 13

IOU trades in progress: 2

Average IOU trade turn-around time: 1 week

Dragon breed most teleported: mints

Most teleports in one day: 6

 

THIS way, you get all of the relevant information without being too incredibly intrusive, and it's turned into a little stats page that everybody can have fun with.

 

And the big part here is, I think, that you get to see turn around time, which I would imagine is the stat most people care about when it comes to IOU trades. How long am I going to have to wait on this dragon to come in?

 

I wouldn't think it'd be terribly difficult to implement?

[blackdragon71]

I find myself liking paradoxangel's idea. The sort of stats she suggested should be kept private though, like the action logs and other various things no one sees on our account settings, so that folks don't also do the begging thing if we happen to have prize dragons or whatever crazy thing is in vogue at the time. Though it could also be covered under the option to turn off your scroll name.

 

Thumbs up to this one. Where's that poll, gist?

[paradoxangel]

I find myself liking paradoxangel's idea. The sort of stats she suggested should be kept private though, like the action logs and other various things no one sees on our account settings, so that folks don't also do the begging thing if we happen to have prize dragons or whatever crazy thing is in vogue at the time. Though it could also be covered under the option to turn off your scroll name.

 

Thumbs up to this one. Where's that poll, gist?

The whole point of the stats was that it wouldn't be showing off all your exact trades and with who. Just a brief summary of how many trades you've made, how long the IOU ones took, etc. Unless you were trading tinsels like they were going out of season (and showing up in the most dragons traded stat because of that) you shouldn't even be able to tell that person has any tinsels, let alone if they have something desired. It'd just be a badge or a /user page that gives a few quick hits about what that person's trade style is like.

 

Which I would think would require you to know who they are anyway, and therefore you'd already have their scrollname??? And could look manually to see if they had anything desireable?

 

I'm a little confused as to what you're driving at here, because the whole point of the suggestion is that anyone can see the overall details (turnaround time, total trades, etc) without seeing all your tiny intimate details (you doing a trade with your best friend who's name is mentioned in the list as a result, accidentally revealing her as an HM prize winner or some such.)

 

And you wouldn't be able to use the /stats page to beg for anything. It would be just a page with words on it. You couldn't perform actions on it, like requests or teleports.

[DarkEternity]

IOUs are personal and I feel need to stay personal. If I'm forced to publicly announce them, I'm not going to do them. Period. I've never failed to complete an IOU (except one where the user went inactive when the egg finally arrived, and I'll still complete it once she's back), and I've had several IOUs owed to me which have never arrived. I've some I"m still working on, too.

This. I feel like the solutions being proposed here are worse than or at least equally as bad as the IOU ban. :/

 

The BSA suggestion is the best of the lot but I still feel super uncomfortable about the whole prospect.

Edited January 13, 2013 by DarkEternity

[siliconrose]

I think there ought to be a reasonable expiry on IOU trades, like six months or a year. Perhaps that could be listed as a separate stat. In any case, if the person who owes the IOU wants to fulfill the trade despite that, that's fine, but maybe it shouldn't be tracked as unfulfilled.

[paradoxangel]

I think there ought to be a reasonable expiry on IOU trades, like six months or a year. Perhaps that could be listed as a separate stat. In any case, if the person who owes the IOU wants to fulfill the trade despite that, that's fine, but maybe it shouldn't be tracked as unfulfilled.

I don't think that's an unreasonable suggestion at all.

[mpolo]

I really think that IOUs should remain unofficial, with no official mechanism that "enforces" them, and so forth. However, I think they should be tolerated as an "at your own risk" option. What I would like to see:

 

1) Stating that I would accept an IOU for a particular trade is again permitted in the trading threads. (I don't really object to a wordfilter on IOU to make it clear that this is at my own risk, but I'm not sure it brings a lot.)

2) Stating that I am OFFERING an IOU should not be allowed, I think. As others have said, the period leading up to Christmas, Halloween and Valentine's Day should be an exception to this, for the holiday eggs in question.

 

An idea occured to me that is probably too much work for the mods, but I will suggest it in case someone can help flesh it out to something workable. How about an IOU "black list" thread. This would need to be a moderated thread, I think — a mod would have to make some attempt to verify the situation, and probably edit overly emotional posts. Then, if I have had an IOU unfulfilled for several months, I could post a simple "User XX did not fulfill an IOU to me." Then if someone had questions about whether to accept an IOU, they could check the blacklist thread to see if the person is likely to be trustworthy. [Honestly, I would probably accept IOUs even without checking such a list. On the other hand, I've never been "burned" on an IOU.]

[paradoxangel]

From what I've seen, blacklists on the forums are a huge no-no.

[Obscure_Trash]

Yes, personal blacklists are not allowed and we certainly won't be coming up with a mod sanctioned one. I think that would take away any trust members have with mods if we participated in such a thing, as well as it would be an abuse of our power, I believe. ^^