The (un)Official IOU Suggestion Thread

[StormWizard212]

I'm against the public blacklists as well. Something I would be for, however, would be a note/icon/something on a person's profile or next to their IOU offers if they have successfully completed x number of IOUs. Something that kind of says "this person is especially reliable with IOUs".

 

I like paradoxangel's idea as well.

[Fuzzbucket]

I'm against the public blacklists as well. Something I would be for, however, would be a note/icon/something on a person's profile or next to their IOU offers if they have successfully completed x number of IOUs. Something that kind of says "this person is especially reliable with IOUs".

 

I like paradoxangel's idea as well.

I still favour the BSA thing.

 

If something were to show on a profile - I'd rather see something like "this person has completed x% of IOUs offered" - but how can you do that ?

 

If I have made two and filled both - I am at 100%. Big deal. But I happen to have that 3 y/o one for a silver, and the two commons who are refusing to breed now that I promised a baby . Neither one is my fault.... There is nothing I can do about them... And I don't offer IOUs a lot, nor do I want to. So I would look - unreliable.

 

If not by BSA, I am still most of all in favour of the censorkipz option.

Edited January 13, 2013 by fuzzbucket

[TheGrox]

I can't see how a "this person has completed x% IOUs" would help in seeing if the person is reliable. What about all of us who have tinsel IOUs? Or people who offer metal IOUs?

 

I would prefer a number of IOUs completed to be shown, if anything - percentages are too ambiguous. You could have completed '100%' of your IOUs, but only ever done 1. Or you could've done hundreds of IOUs, but have a much lower percentage due to them being rares, and people leaving and not collecting their owed eggs.

[LaHaine]

In some other game I play, it's against the rules to buy Cash Items (in-game items paid with real money) from other players with in-game money, for the exact same reason, the Game Masters are not responsible if you get scammed. The trades are risky because the person has to go to the Cash Shop, pay with real money, and send you the gift and then you have to pay that person back with in-game money (sometimes you'd have to pay first, depending on the person's trust). And yeah, a lot of scams occured.

 

Solution:

Since many people didn't have access to Cash Shop, and these trades happened daily, one of the biggest forums created a system that worked out fine. Basically for each successful trade, both would give good Reputation to each other on the forum. This trade reputation bar would be visible by everyone on the trade subforum. So when making a trade with that person, you'd take in consideration her/his reputation bar. I believe it also had a space to make a comment on the trade, but it was taken out, but maybe it would be useful too (comments like, if both people agreed to make it public, "I currently owe This Person X Tinsels")

 

You can consider this a black list, but seriously, when we are talking about risky trades, people's reputation, if a person is trusty or not, is important. And how do you know that, if the stats are private?

 

If people want IOU's to remain personal, then let's just keep it the way it is.

 

 

I didn't read every page of this topic, so if someone else already suggested it (the percentage/number of IOU's idea is kinda similar), then I'm agreeing with it

Edited January 13, 2013 by LaHaine

[StormWizard212]

I can't see how a "this person has completed x% IOUs" would help in seeing if the person is reliable. What about all of us who have tinsel IOUs? Or people who offer metal IOUs?

 

I would prefer a number of IOUs completed to be shown, if anything - percentages are too ambiguous. You could have completed '100%' of your IOUs, but only ever done 1. Or you could've done hundreds of IOUs, but have a much lower percentage due to them being rares, and people leaving and not collecting their owed eggs.

Yeah, this. That's why I'd prefer to see some kind of marker for someone who has completed a certain amount of IOUs, or even just the number itself.

[TheGrox]

I suppose having a reputation bar, like LaHaine said, and giving people rep for each IOU they repay would work. c:

[blackdragon71]

If something were to show on a profile - I'd rather see something like "this person has completed x% of IOUs offered"  - but how can you do that ?

 

If I have made two and filled both - I am at 100%.  Big deal. But I happen to have that 3 y/o one for a silver, and the two commons who are refusing to breed now that I promised a baby  . Neither one is my fault.... There is nothing I can do about them... And I don't offer IOUs a lot, nor do I want to. So I would look - unreliable.

 

This was basically what I was getting at with my post, though Fuzz stated it more completely than I did. There are just too many variables that make the stats portion of the idea too unreliable, and leave too many questions, such as things out of our control, like dragons that suddenly have to be treated for frequent migraines, because they don't understand promises.

Edited January 13, 2013 by blackdragon71

[Fuzzbucket]

This was basically what I was getting at with my post, though Fuzz stated it more completely than I did.  There are just too many variables that make the stats portion of the idea too unreliable, and leave too many questions, such as things out of our control, like dragons that suddenly have to be treated for frequent migraines, because they don't understand promises. 

Can you treat that pair of mine, please ????

 

I HATE the idea of giving reputation stars - like ebay feedback, it is - too easily manipulated. To the extent that sellers there may no longer give negative feedback - they would too often threaten justifiably dissatisfied buyers. I can see that happening here too if we tried it .

 

Actually - comes back with additional thought - I hate that so much I would give up doing them. I do them so rarely anyway that whatever bar I had it would look like I was a Bad Person.

 

I still support the BSA and/or the censorkipz and no more cottonwooling people. Take the risk and accept the risk, end of. I support it more and more the more other ideas I see. I think I'd better leave this thread

 

But I think with the kipz, I would be happy with them back in threads but NOT as initial offers - with NO recourse to ANYONE if it goes wrong.

 

As far as blacklisting goes -I saw the other day that someone had in their profile a list of people they will not trade with and why. That is one way to do reputations... though I was a bit - startled !

Edited January 13, 2013 by fuzzbucket

[TheGrox]

As far as blacklisting goes -I saw the other day that someone had in their profile a list of people they will not trade with and why. That is one way to do reputations... though I was a bit - startled !

As far as I am aware, blacklists, even in profiles, are against the rules. I've seen mods edit them out of some people's profiles.

 

I am definitely against blacklisting.

Edited January 13, 2013 by TheGrox

[Fuzzbucket]

As far as I am aware, blacklists, even in profiles, are against the rules. I've seen mods edit them out of some people's profiles.

 

I am definitely against blacklisting.

Oh...

 

Luckily, and HONESTLY, I forget whose it was !

Your avvie has changed. That gave me a turn...

 

But if whitelists, like, blacklists are an obvious complement. I do HATE ebay feedback.... (in case anyone assumes I have had a bad time - no - mine is 100% +ve and always has been - but I still hate it.)

[paradoxangel]

 

Example:

 

Player: paradoxangel

Total trades since 2013 (or implementation date): 34

Dragon that has teleported the most: Blah blah magi friend

Total completed IOU trades: 13

IOU trades in progress: 2

Average IOU trade turn-around time: 1 week

Dragon breed most teleported: mints

Most teleports in one day: 6

 

If we're talking about this...I don't have percentage completed in there anywhere.

 

 

I have # completed total. But it doesn't say out of how many. (You could take out the how many are active part? Although I don't think it matters. It could just as easily be a year old 2nd gen IOU as a 2 day old hatchling IOU, there isn't a way to tell...)

 

I also have turn around time...which is the average time it takes you to fulfill one.

 

 

And the stats page is just a suggestion and not even part of my original idea. It was supposed to seem fun and informative WITHOUT getting incredibly invasive.

 

 

 

If you're talking about something else in the thread, I agree. % total completed seems like it could get easily skewed by bad breedings and I wouldn't want it listed.

[RainDear]

The only person who knows how honestly and how hard you have tried to fulfill your IOUs is you. I can't support holding someone up to public scrutiny when actually trying but having abysmal luck can look just like not even trying at all. In my opinion, IOUs should be just between to two participating parties.

[Fuzzbucket]

The only person who knows how honestly and how hard you have tried to fulfill your IOUs is you. I can't support holding someone up to public scrutiny when actually trying but having abysmal luck can look just like not even trying at all. In my opinion, IOUs should be just between to two participating parties.

This.

 

The percentages was brought up by someone else (might even have been me; I forget now; see sig) as numbers are tricky - but so are percentages and indeed so are everything we could use to allegedly show reliability.

 

The thing is that this isn't like making something for someone - "OK , I make jewellery, I'll make you a necklace of x design if you knit me a scarf" or exchanging babysitting or whatever - concrete things that can for certain sure be delivered.

 

We can't entirely (and in the case of rares we can hardly at all !) control what our dragons will do. So rating on IOU fulfilment is really tough, as however hard we try, it may not be our fault that we have:

 

Player: flurp

Total trades since 2013 (or implementation date): 34

Dragon that has teleported the most: Tiddles

Total completed IOU trades: 2

IOU trades in progress: 5

Average IOU trade turn-around time: 11 months

Dragon breed most teleported: magma (no, really, I think it is !!!!)

Most teleports in one day: 12.

 

Because if you average out all my ious - that coy silver means that that IS my average turn around time. NOT GOOD. But I am sweet and lovely (well, OK, no perhaps not...) and I DO fulfil all IOUs.

 

WHEN I CAN.

[TheGrox]

As far as I can see, we don't need a reputation system of any kind. One might be helpful to give a general idea of someone's reputation, but there are so many flaws that it probably won't happen. The problem with IOUs, as stated by Socky, was that they are not an official part of the game, NOT that people are moaning about them going wrong. I think paradox's original idea (without the statistics thing), would make them an official part of the game, as would the BSA idea. Surely this is what we should be focussing on?

[paradoxangel]

As far as I can see, we don't need a reputation system of any kind. One might be helpful to give a general idea of someone's reputation, but there are so many flaws that it probably won't happen. The problem with IOUs, as stated by Socky, was that they are not an official part of the game, NOT that people are moaning about them going wrong. I think paradox's original idea (without the statistics thing), would make them an official part of the game, as would the BSA idea. Surely this is what we should be focussing on?

Everyone seems to be forgetting that the stats thing was just a suggestion that isn't a part of the system I came up with.

 

We don't have to do that stats thing if you hate it.

 

I only mentioned it as a compromise because some people want IOUs to be INCREDIBLY public, and this was my way of still putting /some/ information out there, without showing every single IOU made by you in excrutiating detail.

 

 

Can we please discard the whole idea, stop bagging on it, and move back to the proposed systems, please?

[Fuzzbucket]

Everyone seems to be forgetting that the stats thing was just a suggestion that isn't a part of the system I came up with.

 

We don't have to do that stats thing if you hate it.

 

I only mentioned it as a compromise because some people want IOUs to be INCREDIBLY public, and this was my way of still putting /some/ information out there, without showing every single IOU made by you in excrutiating detail.

 

 

Can we please discard the whole idea, stop bagging on it, and move back to the proposed systems, please?

Sure. Just several people DID seem to feel that we should be able to see how safe people are. I disagree, so indeed, let's move on !

[Pokemonfan13]

I don't really like having turnaround time stat, unless it also says like the top 3 dragons IOUd. Someone might only IOU metals and tinsels and they'd, by the nature of the beast, have a MONTHS long average turnaround. If the fact that they only IOU tinsels and metals and other hard-to-breed things isn't part of the data they'd seem to be a very untrustworthy IOU trade partner when it is in fact the opposite.

 

And that would be essentially my position. Apart from the list of commons from my CB holly I need to breed, my turnaround is rather slow because almost all my IOUs are metals and tinsels, but unless the person vanishes on me they're guaranteed to get the egg eventually.

 

 

Edit:

Oh, and IOUs where the recipient has been vanished for x amount of time [2 weeks? 1 month?] shouldn't count for the stats. It's rather unfair to have your average turnaround time messed up by someone you made an IOU to a year ago and then promptly left dragcave. If you can't fulfill the IOU it shouldn't count against you. If the person returns [i had one of them, someone I thought gone forever recently popped up] then the stats count again, but ideally not counting the vanished time in the turnaround since that's still not fair. So if they were around for 1 month after the IOU before leaving and were gone for a year and then it took another month to get them the egg the turnaround time should be 2 months, not 14 months.

Edited January 13, 2013 by Pokemonfan13

[schmupti]

I don't really like having turnaround time stat, unless it also says like the top 3 dragons IOUd. Someone might only IOU metals and tinsels and they'd, by the nature of the beast, have a MONTHS long average turnaround. If the fact that they only IOU tinsels and metals and other hard-to-breed things isn't part of the data they'd seem to be a very untrustworthy IOU trade partner when it is in fact the opposite.

It's the "Show me your scroll before I trade with you" problem all over again.

 

Person wants to know I'm going to take good care of their lineaged egg.

 

Person's going to see my horde of Greens and 6 dead eggs, assume I'm experimenting for a neglected, and flip their noggin. It won't matter that I also have a horde of Vampires and the dead eggs are all CB very-commons.

 

Much as I like the idea of building up a visible reputation as a trade/IOU partner, I think earlier comments on user privacy are a very valid point. paradoxangel's simple IOU slots option is a nice way to make IOU's manageable in the system, so users can track their own IOU's/UOme's. Working with someone via PM whose slots are all filled is up to the user and a risk they take on their own head.

[Fuzzbucket]

It's the "Show me your scroll before I trade with you" problem all over again.

 

Person wants to know I'm going to take good care of their lineaged egg.

 

Person's going to see my horde of Greens and 6 dead eggs, assume I'm experimenting for a neglected, and flip their noggin. It won't matter that I also have a horde of Vampires and the dead eggs are all CB very-commons.

 

Much as I like the idea of building up a visible reputation as a trade/IOU partner, I think earlier comments on user privacy are a very valid point. paradoxangel's simple IOU slots option is a nice way to make IOU's manageable in the system, so users can track their own IOU's/UOme's. Working with someone via PM whose slots are all filled is up to the user and a risk they take on their own head.

Right on.

 

I still think - given that this will all - whatever happens in terms of absorbing it into the game - HAVE to be down to players' honesty, I would rather see it between individuals, in private with very obvious warnings that you are TAKING A RISK HERE and no-one will go in to bat for you.

 

That would apply up to a point even if it were done by BSA, I think...

Edited January 14, 2013 by fuzzbucket

[SolarCat]

As far as tracking IOU stats, I keep this page up-to-date with mine. It shows all trades both ways, so not just ones where I owe something but also what I'm owed.

 

It works for me.

[Fuzzbucket]

As far as tracking IOU stats, I keep this page up-to-date with mine. It shows all trades both ways, so not just ones where I owe something but also what I'm owed.

 

It works for me.

Wow.

 

*is VERY impressed*

 

Mine are just in a word document on my machine....

[siliconrose]

That's really beautiful, SolarCat! I'd love to have something like that available. (I might crib off your wiki, if you don't mind?)

[SolarCat]

That's really beautiful, SolarCat! I'd love to have something like that available. (I might crib off your wiki, if you don't mind?)

Help yourself! I'll confess I took the basic formatting off of Dragon Trees, and I just modify it as I need to now.

 

It's great for tracking breeding projects, too...

[Karobb]

As usual, people have gone off the deep end because of some clue less users who might imagine an IOU is a guarantee, I mean come on, really?

 

Not sure why the intelligent portion of the population needs to suffer for this. Also, IOU in signature is still in the post, so yeah, that makes sense NOT.

 

Instead of always recommending complicated coding, why not insist people try to have some common sense, or give people credit for the common sense they possess?

Edited January 24, 2013 by Karobb

[Obscure_Trash]

I'm not sure how "IOUs are not an official part of the teleport action, which is what the Trading section is for" keeps coming off as "we are tired of people whining about IOUs gone wrong" or even "users don't understand that an IOU is not a guarantee". D:

 

But in any case, this thread is NOT for just saying the rule should be reversed. Please made sure you've read the OP.

 

EDIT: Which brings up the question of why we haven't (excuse me if I missed it) brought up changing the name/description of the trading section and therefore its function? Or something like that, maybe?

Edited January 24, 2013 by SockPuppet Strangler