DC Gold

[DragonNighthowler]

You CAN raise hatchlings, right? The official thing against IOUs doesn't prevent people from arranging them in private and people take hatchlings of blockers or bred BSA dragons and the like as payment for a lot of things. I used them to pay off a huge CB black IOU [before the thing against IOUs, but that's mainly because I haven't needed to trade recently].

Well, yeah, I have done it a couple of times myself. But I thought this would make things simpler.

 

But I could be wrong, really. I'm not trying to convince anyone on this matter, when I'm not sure myself it could be a good idea.

Actually, it is probably a terrible idea, since, as someone pointed out, economy in online games tends to crash to the point it makes it unbearable for users to play, but since this wasn't based on any sort of buying and selling things at a market, I thought it might work.

[kerrikins]

Okay. I know that a huge part of the thought process here is that "catching/breeding ____ for ____ is hard/mostly luck based, so if we introduce currency, that problem will be solved!"

 

Except it doesn't work that way.

 

There are two ways that this is going to go.

 

Possibility A:

 

Currency is implemented. People feel out the new system - how long it takes to earn currency - from there, they assign a value. The market has its ups and downs, but eventually it stabilises. Those above will have their eggs just sit without offers, those below will see their eggs snatched up and realise that they've been pricing below the 'market value'. Some, depending on their goals, may price 'just below' the market level to encourage turnover and make currency as fast as possible.

 

Those who achieve the fastest turnover or who make the most sales are able to snatch up those eggs that are priced higher and higher. The perception of 'value' gradually increases. Players, with more and more currency, continue to push these prices higher and higher.

 

Newbies and those players without the time/energy/luck to accumulate currency continue to be left behind. New players especially find it harder and harder to get the breeds that are most desirable.

 

 

Possibility B:

 

Currency is implemented. People feel out the system - how long it takes to earn currency - from there they assign a value, except this time, limits are involved. The market has its ups and downs and one of two things happens: either the limits match the difficulty of 'obtaining' currency, or the limits do not. In the first scenario, a market much like the one I laid out in my first possibility develops. In the second scenario, players who are not happy with the price being so 'easy' to obtain then turn *back* to trading in eggs because that has a set, agreed upon value.

 

Either way you end up with a system that's similar to what we have right now on DC, except more complicated. It's natural for an economy to develop, but the thing is, right now DC is simple and we don't have things to worry about like currency sinks and inflation. In ways DC mirrors the world - there are the very rich, the middle class and the poor, but the barriers to ascending aren't actually as difficult as they might seem.

 

I'm not against currency just ~because~ it's different. I'm against it because it's different in a way that I do not believe would bring more joy to the site or improve it, and because I feel that the amount of effort it would take would not be proportional to what it would bring to the site and the community.

 

Just my .02 (or so.)

[Fuzzbucket]

I kind of wanted to imply the contrary. Sorry if it was misunderstood, but I kind of meant CB are highly valued while a common from a lineage, no matter how long it took to create, is of very little value.

Really, how much would you pay for this?

No spriter alts, no special eggs, just two common caveblockers. It took several months to create, tho, and I am very proud of it. I really value lineages more than I value CB, because of the work behind them, yet the market values CB higher than lineaged eggs.

I would not PAY a single sausage ! I would not and will not play in any way that involves money. But I have lineages kind of like that

 

- here's a pretty one ! - and I WOULD trade. As you know

 

Or (not to rain on Howler's parade) one of my floating ones.... Weird lineages are great fun. MUCH more fun than going shopping.

 

(and Cinnamin, as I said post and posts ago - I WILL breed any of my stripes for you... FREE ! I also know someone else who breeds them free for whoever. Don't diss the gifting threads etc !)

 

One big thing though.

 

It would be optional. You believe that ?

 

Look at ebay. Paypal was optional for sellers when I signed up in some bygone age. I preferred it that way, as I didn't want to get involved with all their fees. Now you MAY NOT SELL there without offering paypal as a payment option. They swore they would never do that when I signed up - but now...

 

Optional becomes compulsory in no time flat. This game is very different from all those games where you buy stuff. That's why I enjoy it.

[DragonNighthowler]

I would not PAY a single sausage ! I would not and will not play in any way that involves money. But I have lineages kind of like that

 

- here's a pretty one ! - and I WOULD trade. As you know

 

Or (not to rain on Howler's parade) one of my floating ones.... Weird lineages are great fun. MUCH more fun than going shopping.

 

(and Cinnamin, as I said post and posts ago - I WILL breed any of my stripes for you... FREE ! I also know someone else who breeds them free for whoever. Don't diss the gifting threads etc !)

 

One big thing though.

 

It would be optional. You believe that ?

 

Look at ebay. Paypal was optional for sellers when I signed up in some bygone age. I preferred it that way, as I didn't want to get involved with all their fees. Now you MAY NOT SELL there without offering paypal as a payment option. They swore they would never do that when I signed up - but now...

 

Optional becomes compulsory in no time flat. This game is very different from all those games where you buy stuff. That's why I enjoy it.

I think our problem is we love creating lineages as much as we love making people happy with them.

 

That's a really interesting one you have there, tho ^^

Never thought about it.

[Fuzzbucket]

Well quite. Lineage creation with commons is enormous fun

 

Off to cuddle my pillow/balloon one, in limbo for the drop and the zombie thing ! As for Sir Barton's Pillow/Brimstone one - it's the funniest thing in years. (I hesitate to post an example, as the dragons aren't mine !)

 

Most of us do not NEED more ways to "make this game fun". It IS fun. Shopping is NOT fun. I have to buy shoes this week. I cannot tell you how much I am dreading it. I wish I could breed some from my existing much loved but frankly past it pairs.

[DragonNighthowler]

Well quite. Lineage creation with commons is enormous fun

 

Off to cuddle my pillow/balloon one, in limbo for the drop and the zombie thing ! As for Sir Barton's Pillow/Brimstone one - it's the funniest thing in years. (I hesitate to post an example, as the dragons aren't mine !)

 

Most of us do not NEED more ways to "make this game fun". It IS fun. Shopping is NOT fun. I have to buy shoes this week. I cannot tell you how much I am dreading it. I wish I could breed some from my existing much loved but frankly past it pairs.

You've quiet convinced me. You're right, there is something more interesting and challenging in getting hatchies for trade, or simply do as always, spend hours in my notebook writing down possible lineages with the strangest combinations.

Money, that's the easy way out for getting that only CB rare I'm lacking, but the point I lasted over 3 years in this game (might be more, I'm like dogs when it concerns time, don't really know how it works) is because it is like nothing else out there.

 

I also dread buying shoes, or going shopping for that matter.

[olympe]

It would screw with the ratios too much. Even if they were exempt from the ratios, it would still devalue the eggs too much, IMO. Why bother catching a gold yourself when you can buy a CB pair and start your own lineage? (True, you could have months and months before you could afford both, but still.)

Not necessarily. All TJ would have to do is make bought eggs not count towards the ratios. :rolleyes:Also, such a system would make sure that players who don't want to raise more dragons due to set scroll goals are not forced to change their playing style, for the regular golds/silvers/whatever would still drop in the cave in the same amount they do now. Second, a DC shop would be the badly needed money sink and automatically put price caps on regular trades - for who would pay more for a 2nd gen of any kind than the CB you could buy at the shop? And all of that could be accomplished quite easily. (If you want to know how bought breeds can be made to not count towards the ratios, highlight the following passage.)

All he'd have to do is declare bought eggs as another breed, like with bright pinks and BSA pinks. The difference is that the bought eggs would have the same description and the same sprites as their regular version, and would only be able to breed the regular breed (like bright pinks only breed BSA pinks or their mate's breed, but never more bright pinks).

 

So, you want to buy a CB gold? It will look exactly like a regular gold, and breed regular golds (or its mate's breed), but the ratios will count it as X-gold (whatever X is supposed to mean).

Also, if it took up to 500 DC$ to get a CB gold - for example! - and you'd only ever get 1 DC$ for each hatched egg, it would take you about 21 weeks = 5-6 months to be able to accomplish that if you have a gold trophy. Of course, you could make additional money by trading good stuff away, but you don't have to.

[Amazon_warrior]

We're a site that runs off of ratios, having a shop to buy said dragons from, even if prices change, changes it from being a ratio ran site. Suddenly we're basically like Magistream, having a shop to buy eggs from.

...but what if shop eggs *were* connected to the Cave ratios? Buying an egg would mean one less appearing in the Cave/being bred. If there's a rush and lots of people buy eggs of a specific breed, fewer would be bred, fewer would drop in the Cave and the price would rise dramatically as a result. (If the Cave can use the ratios to determine how often an egg is successfully produced either in the Cave or by breeding, then I'm pretty sure some calculation could be introduced to link a price tag to this.) Players would have to balance between cave-hunting long enough to catch what they want without paying for it, or spend their time raising more common breeds to get enough money to buy what they want. *shrug* Just a thought.

 

Also, isn't the Cave itself an epic example of spontaneous egg creation? Where *do* they all come from? /shot

[whitebaron]

I wish I could breed some from my existing much loved but frankly past it pairs.

Hear Hear!

i really need to come up with a way to do this. While I like shopping, they seem to always take those out of their lineup that I liked most.

 

 

As for saving up 6 months for a CB Gold: Easy to do, when you don't need anything else. This also helps players who have most of what they want anyway. I can deal with not buying anything else but ultrarares, but can someone who cannot catch a vine, black, red, blusang wait for just that one dragon or would they rather buy 5 reds or 10 vines instead?

Edited November 4, 2012 by whitebaron

[PointOfOrigin]

...but what if shop eggs *were* connected to the Cave ratios? Buying an egg would mean one less appearing in the Cave/being bred. If there's a rush and lots of people buy eggs of a specific breed, fewer would be bred, fewer would drop in the Cave and the price would rise dramatically as a result. (If the Cave can use the ratios to determine how often an egg is successfully produced either in the Cave or by breeding, then I'm pretty sure some calculation could be introduced to link a price tag to this.) Players would have to balance between cave-hunting long enough to catch what they want without paying for it, or spend their time raising more common breeds to get enough money to buy what they want. *shrug* Just a thought.

 

Also, isn't the Cave itself an epic example of spontaneous egg creation? Where *do* they all come from? /shot

Tying a shop to cave ratios is a bad idea. It would epically mess up any breeding results. I can already imagine people complaining that their dragons haven't given them an egg in months.

 

No, to egg shop from here.

[Fuzzbucket]

If there were ever an egg shop (which heaven forbid) the eggs bought there could be absolutely and permanently sterile. Then they could indeed be taken out of the ratios as they would never affect anyone. But those that determined to have them could have their CB gold to look at and stuff.

 

Why wouldn't that be nice ?

 

BECAUSE - BREEDING is half the point of this place and BUYING stuff is NOT.

[Amazon_warrior]

Tying a shop to cave ratios is a bad idea. It would epically mess up any breeding results. I can already imagine people complaining that their dragons haven't given them an egg in months.

 

No, to egg shop from here.

So.... how's that different from right now? I have pairs I've bred constantly for months on end without a single egg being produced. The abrupt Seasonal drought completely screwed with my HF x Winter lineage - it won't be finished until the Winter breeding season starts. If the price rises as demand increases, the system should be self-balancing. It'd be tricky to begin with, though, even with prior analysis of what a player at the different scroll levels could reasonably be expected to earn and spend. Mind you, the only way this would benefit the have-nots versus the haves is that the shop would be utterly impartial - so long as you have the money, you can buy the dragon. No faffing around currying favour or promising someone 60 hatchies or whatever to get that shiny thing, unless you deliberately choose to.

 

Eh, don't get me wrong, I'm not wedded to the idea of a shop or currency, I'm just tasting possible ways it *could* be done. Playing Devil's Advocate, if you will.

Edited November 4, 2012 by Amazon_warrior

[Fuzzbucket]

You can see it now.

 

I bought a DEFECTIVE EGG and I WANT MY GOLD BACK

 

Purchases are seen as coming with guarantees- as well they should, IMHO ! Catching is not.

Edited November 4, 2012 by fuzzbucket

[olympe]

I could also imagine a DC shop selling fertility drugs - each one for a special breed. Like, you want to breed a winter from winter x hellfire? Buy a winter fertility drug (for the price of a CB winter - or maybe half that), give it to your winter dragon, breed him - and voilà, winter egg. Would be very, very nifty for all kinds of lineages. Sure, the price may be high, especially for rare dragons - but to some of us, it would be worth it.

[PointOfOrigin]

So.... how's that different from right now? I have pairs I've bred constantly for months on end without a single egg being produced. The abrupt Seasonal drought completely screwed with my HF x Winter lineage - it won't be finished until the Winter breeding season starts. If the price rises as demand increases, the system should be self-balancing. It'd be tricky to begin with, though, even with prior analysis of what a player at the different scroll levels could reasonably be expected to earn and spend. Mind you, the only way this would benefit the have-nots versus the haves is that the shop would be utterly impartial - so long as you have the money, you can buy the dragon. No faffing around currying favour or promising someone 60 hatchies or whatever to get that shiny thing, unless you deliberately choose to.

 

Eh, don't get me wrong, I'm not wedded to the idea of a shop or currency, I'm just tasting possible ways it *could* be done. Playing Devil's Advocate, if you will.

Nah, don't worry. It's fun playing Devil's Advocate

 

Maybe the level of complaining wouldn't change, but it still wouldn't change the fact that bought eggs would be included in the ratios. More CB (in this case bought) eggs = less breed ones.

[Fuzzbucket]

I could also imagine a DC shop selling fertility drugs - each one for a special breed. Like, you want to breed a winter from winter x hellfire? Buy a winter fertility drug (for the price of a CB winter - or maybe half that), give it to your winter dragon, breed him - and voilà, winter egg. Would be very, very nifty for all kinds of lineages. Sure, the price may be high, especially for rare dragons - but to some of us, it would be worth it.

And here we start to get into "to those who have" - as older players would always be far "richer". I'd hate to see any currency that directly affected game play.

 

Not to mention valuations... Or do you mean pay with an EGG ???

 

ACTUALLY if there ever WERE a shop, paying with eggs and hatchies would be more in line with the spirit of the game than gold as a currency.

[Amazon_warrior]

I could also imagine a DC shop selling fertility drugs - each one for a special breed. Like, you want to breed a winter from winter x hellfire? Buy a winter fertility drug (for the price of a CB winter - or maybe half that), give it to your winter dragon, breed him - and voilà, winter egg. Would be very, very nifty for all kinds of lineages. Sure, the price may be high, especially for rare dragons - but to some of us, it would be worth it.

Ha, I would *totally* buy those for some of my lineages! *pokes the Rainbow dragons with an accusing finger* The irony is, I spend a fair bit of time raising commons because they're fundamental components of my lineages, waaaaaaay more so than shinies are, it'd just be nice sometimes to get the common that I wanted.

 

 

@fuzz: How on earth would prices based on eggs and hatchies be regulated? Anyone who could code such a thing probably shouldn't be wasting their time running a sprite-collection site... Also, regarding older players being "richer" - don't we deserve it, not even a little bit? We've paid our dues with time spent hunting the cave, raising dragons, arranging trades, whatever. I consider myself to be a pretty successful player and I'm extremely proud of my scroll and dragons, but I didn't get my first metallic until nearly two years after I joined DC. I've been lucky, I've worked hard, and people have been incredibly kind and helpful to me. I think I should be allowed to enjoy the benefits of that, especially in a game where there is purportedly no hoarding, just collecting.

Edited November 4, 2012 by Amazon_warrior

[olympe]

ACTUALLY if there ever WERE a shop, paying with eggs and hatchies would be more in line with the spirit of the game than gold as a currency.

If that wouldn't put the ratios out of whack, I don't know what would. "Sell" 100 common hatchies (which don't count towards the ratio any more) to buy one rare (which then does count towards the ratio)!

Edited November 4, 2012 by olympe

[Fuzzbucket]

Ha, I would *totally* buy those for some of my lineages!    *pokes the Rainbow dragons with an accusing finger*  The irony is, I spend a fair bit of time raising commons because they're fundamental components of my lineages, waaaaaaay more so than shinies are, it'd just be nice sometimes to get the common that I wanted. 

Yeah kinda - if my magi/ember deliberately inbred lineage would ever give me a magi...

 

Yea but no but - no thanks.

 

But this does raise - again - the question of valuing. Some commons really ARE worth more to me than rares. Because of what I want them for.

 

@ olympe. Maybe the things received in payment could just go straight to the AP where they WOULD stay in the game. Or simply count for the rest of the year as if they had never been spent ?

 

Not that I like the idea, but in case it happens (like someone else said) best it happen in a tolerable fashion. (and without gold )

Edited November 4, 2012 by fuzzbucket

[Chanilove]

Chanilove, do you mean my post with the bolds on page 11?

Yes, that's the one I was referring to. I guess it was further back than I thought. They should really change the "cons" to just link to that post, honestly.

 

On the topic of creating an egg-shop, I'm against it. I can't support spontaneous egg creation and wouldn't even if it wasn't warned against in TJ's post. I may just be a derp, but I don't see how it'd mess with the ratios if you had to raise tens of commons to purchase rare eggs. Feel free to enlighten me -- I'm not the best with these sorts of things. If the ratios would get screwy because of it, I don't see TJ excluding the dragons bought there from cave ratios. This system drives DC, in a way, and I don't think he'd enjoy outlining a loophole in it.

Edited November 4, 2012 by Chanilove

[brairtrainer]

Yes, that's the one I was referring to. I guess it was further back than I thought. They should really change the "cons" to just link to that post, honestly.

 

On the topic of creating an egg-shop, I'm against it. I can't support spontaneous egg creation and wouldn't even if it wasn't warned against in TJ's post. I may just be a derp, but I don't see how it'd mess with the ratios if you had to raise tens of commons to purchase rare eggs. Feel free to enlighten me -- I'm not the best with these sorts of things. If the ratios would get screwy because of it, I don't see TJ excluding the dragons bought there from cave ratios. This system drives DC, in a way, and I don't think he'd enjoy outlining a loophole in it.

This. The only way a shop would work is if we got rid of the cave all together, or if it offers something other than eggs, because the ratios control everything and changing it would cause a game overhall.

 

If you want a dragon game that has this then learn to code for yourselves and make it a seperate game. This really has no use to DC

[Fuzzbucket]

If you want a dragon game that has this then learn to code for yourselves and make it a separate game. This really has no use to DC

QFT.

 

This place is DIFFERENT. LOVE it for being so !

[schmupti]

- The maximum bid would be 75m. If a user has auto-sell chosen, and someone bids 75m, they will automatically get that dragon.

 

- If all the users bid 75m, there will be a random selection of the winning user.

 

- Users will NOT be able to combine dragons with money in their bids. This is to prevent out-bidding through rare dragons AND money.

These items from the megapost make me twitchy. Maybe I'm misunderstanding--it's early, I'm not yet caffeinated...

 

Artificially capping the amount anyone can earn, artificially capping the amount anyone can bid and forbidding combined offers specifically to prevent out-bidding, combined with a system where any offers with numerous max bids automatically default to a lottery system.

 

That's not really currency. Folks who trade 'desirable' hatchlings and eggs are always going to end up in this automatic raffle where they get only X monies/glorified raffle tickets, regardless of the perceived value of their offering, they can only have so many of those raffle tickets (which artificially limits their participation in these lotteries each day), and they can only be used to toss in a highest bid on someone else's eggs and wait to see if they're the winner.

 

THAT's a system that's mostly run on luck. I can't see why anyone would bother with it.

 

 

ETA: the gist of your suggestion, explanations and fine-tuning seems to always turn back to DC manually putting a limit on the values--taking that control out of users' hands because you feel trading prices for them are ridiculously inflated.

 

The points above, though, squash values entirely for folks who use the currency system: no matter how rare or new, an egg will never be worth more than your cap. So the stuff that's most costly now will remain costly, because nobody trading CB metallics, hollies, etc., would use this--it wouldn't be in their best interests.

Edited November 4, 2012 by schmupti

[olympe]

In other words, it would defeat the purpose of creating an in-game currency in the first place. Exactly.

[AzureZeroX]

...Guys. If it isn't broken...don't fix it. The site has as many members as it does for a reason, its a successful formula. Yes sometimes it does get stale, but the lack of complexity is its charm.

Honestly I'm one of the "Older players" that often goes on Hiatus, but even so I ALWAYS come back, because its just the simple joy of knowing that it wont be ridiculously complicated for me to get what I missed when I do return, that keeps me coming back every time. I'm not against it entirely because some form of change might keep things fresh, but I'm also perfectly content with the way things are right now.

I would die if it turned into something as complex as Magistream, that site just wasn't my cup of tea. I love DC, and I always will.

Edited November 4, 2012 by DarkdragoonXHybrid