Sexism

[whitebaron]

i did some research: standard us army gear is about 60-80 lbs, depending on which unit you are in.

 

you have to lug around other stuff too, but most of that is either specialists equipment (that not everyone/only some carry) or situation based (water for desert ops is one of the worst offenders)

 

But you typically don't run around in as much as you have to theoretically carry, as there are camps, transports, or just your current post, where you definitely don't carry whats not immediately needed.

 

 

as for socks statement: yes, don't judge, but dont refute my initial statement either.

Because there are differences, its harder to get into some jobs as a woman, and harder to get into some jobs as man, too.

[Bacon_Strips]

Oh and btw, has anybody talked about sexism against men, because I found an interesting article: http://www.safercampus.org/blog/2011/03/es...lture-hurt-men/

I consider myself blessed that I have not experienced much sexism directed towards men in my life so far. The sexist remarks I most frequently encounter are the "Guys can't show emotion because it makes them weak", and the "Suck it up, you're a guy" ones. Men experience a great deal of emotions, yet are typically not allowed to reveal them in public, causing inner turmoil to build, which sometimes leads to violent behavior. While society seems to have no problem with girls sharing their feelings and seeking someone to talk to, boys would simply be told to deal with it and stop acting emotional. The risk of getting shunned by peers also makes boys less likely to express their feelings, letting it bottle up inside of them.

 

I've had a few male friends who were miserable because they didn't want to speak up out of fear of being made fun of or thought of as "less masculine".

Edited February 15, 2014 by Bacon_Strips

[Red Dragonette]

That's really sad.

 

It makes me wish society would start teaching boys and men to let out their emotions, so that we can all get along better.

[Kith]

That's really sad.

 

It makes me wish society would start teaching boys and men to let out their emotions, so that we can all get along better.

There's two sides to that coin as well. A lot of girls are brought up to either play hard to get, conceal their true thoughts/feelings/intentions from, or assume psychic power of the guys around them (especially a significant other). Mind games don't really do anyone any good, so if men were brought up to express their emotions and women were brought up to present their wants, needs, emotions, etc. clearly, we'd have an easier time with interpersonal communications in general.

[BlitzDrake]

:| I really hate reading about stuff like this. It sucks because it basically just teaches guys not to show emotion and to suffer and crap just to be like "yo man I be so tough" while on the inside suffering. Why? Ooooh because if they show "weakness" then they aren't a man.

[gizmo1960]

When someone tells me it is unmanly to show emotions, I remind them that a "real man" is one that gas the GUTS to show his emotions.

And if they disagree...... I tell them "why don't you step a little closer , or are you afraid of getting hit?"

lol

[St. Jimmy]

The issue of society telling men to hide their feelings stems from misogyny, though. Women are viewed as the emotional, irrational ones, so the men are basically being told "stop acting like a silly woman and suck it up."

[KageSora]

The issue of society telling men to hide their feelings stems from misogyny, though. Women are viewed as the emotional, irrational ones, so the men are basically being told "stop acting like a silly woman and suck it up."

Yeah. Most, if not all, issues men face due to sexism are tied back to misogyny in some form or another.

 

That's why I'm always really confused when guys are all "IM NOT A FEMINIST BECAUSE I HAVE PROBLEMS TOO SCREW YOU". If we dismantle the system that's causing these issues, then a great deal of their problems will be eased and/or solved as well.

[whitebaron]

Yeah. Most, if not all, issues men face due to sexism are tied back to misogyny in some form or another.

 

That's why I'm always really confused when guys are all "IM NOT A FEMINIST BECAUSE I HAVE PROBLEMS TOO SCREW YOU". If we dismantle the system that's causing these issues, then a great deal of their problems will be eased and/or solved as well.

It will dissolve itself anyway, eventually. Just dont expect it to be as fast as the extreme/violent feminists want it to be. A hundred years ago, voting for females, and basically anyone that was not of the leading race, was unheard of in most countries of the world.

 

Its only thirty years ago, that some countries introduced general voting for women. You cant expect people that were raised before that, to change their attitudes, and their child generation neither. I will not live to see absolute equality, but I think I dont need to - the current situation already is pretty good, considering the above.

[KageSora]

It will dissolve itself anyway, eventually. Just dont expect it to be as fast as the extreme/violent feminists want it to be. A hundred years ago, voting for females, and basically anyone that was not of the leading race, was unheard of in most countries of the world.

 

Its only thirty years ago, that some countries introduced general voting for women. You cant expect people that were raised before that, to change their attitudes, and their child generation neither. I will not live to see absolute equality, but I think I dont need to - the current situation already is pretty good, considering the above.

...Er, you DO realize that that's not "dissolving itself" but those are changes that were made by people who realized the system was wrong and fought to alter it? Kinda like, y'know, what feminists try to do?

 

And of course it's not going to change right away. These things take time. But we can speed it up by working together and helping to educate people. Change only works if enough people realize that it needs to happen, after all.

 

And actually, the kids are often being able to have their minds changed. With the movements and how it's easier to access information (in general depending on where you live) with advances in technology, they get the values the older generations tried to teach them questioned at younger ages when they're more likely to change their minds.

 

 

And, also, screw the "it's pretty good, I don't need to live to see it absolute" attitude. That's the attitude that screws over a lot of things. "pretty good compared to before" isn't good enough. It's a start, and it's an observation, but it everybody had that attitude people wouldn't strive for change.

[pudding]

It will dissolve itself anyway, eventually. Just dont expect it to be as fast as the extreme/violent feminists want it to be. A hundred years ago, voting for females, and basically anyone that was not of the leading race, was unheard of in most countries of the world.

 

Its only thirty years ago, that some countries introduced general voting for women. You cant expect people that were raised before that, to change their attitudes, and their child generation neither. I will not live to see absolute equality, but I think I dont need to - the current situation already is pretty good, considering the above.

Well thousands of years ago, we didn't have a written language. Since the past seems to be such a good judgement of the now, let's just abandon that. In fact, how about we just abandon language in general and return to grunting at each other in caves?

 

I do expect that of people. It is a choice to be a bigot. Opinions can be changed, just like the system. What I can't change is the fact I am a girl and I should have the same rights as any other homo sapien. If you can't change your opinions, then at least don't express them. Feminists aren't about trampling males under our feet. Feminists are about men and women on equal standing.

 

 

 

Here's a fantastic quote about rape culture. There shouldn't be a trigger warning but I'll say it just in case.

 

“Gentlemen. This is what rape culture is like:

 

Imagine you have a Rolex watch. Nice fancy Rolex, you bought it because you like the way it looks and you wanted to treat yourself. And then you get beaten and mugged and your Rolex is stolen. So you go to the police. Only, instead of investigating the crime, the police want to know why you were wearing a Rolex instead of a regular watch. Have you ever given a Rolex to anyone else? Is it possible you wanted to be mugged? Why didn’t you wear long sleeves to cover up the Rolex if you didn’t want to be mugged?

 

And then after that, everywhere you go, there are constant jokes about stealing your Rolex. People you don’t even know whistle at your Rolex and make jokes about cutting your hand off to get it. The media doesn’t help either; it portrays people who wear Rolexes as flamboyant ***s who secretly just want someone to come along and take that Rolex off their hands. When damn, all you wanted was to wear a nice watch without getting harassed for it. When you complain that you are starting to feel unsafe, people laugh you off and say that you are too uptight. Never mind you got violently attacked for the crime of wearing a friggin time piece.

 

Imagining all that? It sucks, doesn’t it.

 

Now imagine you could never take the Rolex off.”

 

 

[Syaoransbear]

It will dissolve itself anyway, eventually. Just dont expect it to be as fast as the extreme/violent feminists want it to be. A hundred years ago, voting for females, and basically anyone that was not of the leading race, was unheard of in most countries of the world.

 

Its only thirty years ago, that some countries introduced general voting for women. You cant expect people that were raised before that, to change their attitudes, and their child generation neither. I will not live to see absolute equality, but I think I dont need to - the current situation already is pretty good, considering the above.

I don't see absolute equality ever happening. But I'm not at all okay with how things are right now. I can see why you are though, you get to be the gender that is valued for their skills and personality. I'm stuck as the gender whose hair will be considered far more important than anything I ever accomplish and more important than any other quality I possess.

 

Ugh, I can't stand being female.

[tjsweepers]

I admit to not reading this whole thread, just the last page or 2, but Syaoras...it's only your most important feature, if you let it be what defines you.

 

I'm a mechanic, a diesel mechanic for a city transit authority and the only woman, hell they had to convert the mop closet into a woman's bathroom for me and I only got the job after I shortened Tara Jane to TJ on my resume.

There was a fair amount of back lash, yes i can't lift as much as the guys and there are some things that take me considerable longer to do because I'm just not as strong as my male counterparts, but more often then not I get the difficult troubleshooting stuff because that is my strong suite. I'm the only one in the entire company to rebuild Hybrid engines and work in the high voltage systems.

It took them a while to figure out i wasn't there to flirt and was not scarred of getting dirty.

When i go on road calls and fix buses that have broken down on the street, I usually get a "you go girl" from other women.

Heck, you know those commercials for the collages where they have an alumni saying how going to the school had made a big difference in there life? I'm going to be in one for the tech school i graduated from.

As far as being a mechanic goes, I know i'm doing darn good, woman or not, even with bus funk in my hair.

I do dislike how TV makes it seem that in order to be successful as a woman you have to be hot. No you just have to work hard and have a realistic view of yourself.

Edited February 16, 2014 by tjsweepers

[Syaoransbear]

I admit to not reading this whole thread, just the last page or 2, but Syaoras...it's only your most important feature, if you let it be what defines you.

I don't think it's as simple as letting it or not letting it be what defines me. Society says that is what defines me and everything else is secondary. That my achievements simply do not matter as much as my appearance. My opinion is irrelevant. Female olympic gold medalists have had their entire achievements overlooked in favor of discussing what they looked like. Entire industries and careers only exist by making sure everyone thinks a woman's appearance is her most important trait. It's not something I can just click off unless I can click off society.

 

But really, I try. I don't wear makeup, I don't do my hair beyond making sure it's clean and out of my way, I wear clean clothes. I try to be the change I want to see, which is a society where appearance is irrelevant. But still, when going to a retirement party my dad, my husband, and my brother can all look however they want but my mom insists that I have to 'look nice' by putting on makeup and and doing my hair, as though normally I do not look nice. It's not even just "your appearance is your most important feature", it's "your appearance is your most important feature but no matter what you look like you still need to alter it." It does not feel pleasant to belong to a gender whose most important feature is something that will never be good enough.

[tjsweepers]

"your appearance is your most important feature but no matter what you look like you still need to alter it." It does not feel pleasant to belong to a gender whose most important feature is something that will never be good enough.

 

Yes, and just think of all the companies making a massive profit from this. I do have to say that people do judge people on how they look, I sure wouldn't buy food from someone who looked messy and unclean. And that "hot" girls coffee always seems to be ready before mine >-<

I am comfortable in my own skin with the myriad of flaws that Society seems to think I would be better without.

 

Your mother, and mine too for that matter, seem to think that girls need to fit into this 1970's prototype of 'ladylike.' I get the you need to dress nicely to attract a good man spiel from her a lot, but honestly, i don't think i want a man who only would want the spit polished version of me. and if there is one thing i hope to teach my daughter, it's that you set your own self worth. As soon as you start using someone else's set of standards, you will fall short almost every time and that just makes you feel like crud and feed the cycle when you spend money to "fix" it.

[gizmo1960]

The hot girl probably got her coffee first because of some young guy who hasn't learned what true beauty is.

Being pretty is ok,but, I think a woman that has skills and can be self reliant is quite attractive.(a guy still likes to feel needed tho)

I think your hubby is a very fortunate man.

[TwilitProphet]

So just now my grandfather threw a pretty freaking sexist hardball at me. I was very upset about how someone spoke to me over the phone (speaking to me as if I was an idiot), and I swore to myself as I hung up the phone. My grandfather heard me. You know what he said?

 

"Stop talking like that. Women don't look pretty if they say things like that."

 

I of course got angry at him and called him out on it. This is a man who, although he puts me through hell for everything I say and do that doesn't fit his bill of what I should be doing, absolutely bashes people who are sexist. Upon being told how sexist what he said just was?

 

"I don't give a [hilarious use of swears when he just yelled at me for swearing] what you think. The fact of the matter is, you're a woman and you shouldn't swear."

 

My blood is boiling right now. My brother violently swears (to the point that makes me scared of him) when something upsets him and my grandfather has never batted an eye. I swear and say one word when I'm upset and he always gave me dirty looks. I used to think it was because my grandfather just doesn't like me as much as my brother. But now I know it's because he's sexist and thinks just because I swear like any other 23 year old (and people in the television shows and movies he watches all the time) that somehow I'm going to be less attractive as a woman.

 

-- I can only comfort myself with the fact that in a few years I'll be able to move to Virginia where I don't have to be anywhere near this man ever again.

[King_Max_Cat]

*snip*

My grandfather heard me. You know what he said?

 

"Stop talking like that. Women don't look pretty if they say things like that."

 

I of course got angry at him and called him out on it. This is a man who, although he puts me through hell for everything I say and do that doesn't fit his bill of what I should be doing, absolutely bashes people who are sexist. Upon being told how sexist what he said just was?

 

"I don't give a [hilarious use of swears when he just yelled at me for swearing] what you think. The fact of the matter is, you're a woman and you shouldn't swear."

 

My blood is boiling right now. My brother violently swears (to the point that makes me scared of him) when something upsets him and my grandfather has never batted an eye. I swear and say one word when I'm upset and he always gave me dirty looks. *snip*

Wow, sucks to live with your Grandpa. A suggestion; get him angry enough to start swearing and then tell him he doesn't seem like a "proper" old man when he swears? Honestly this is a little tiny bit funny (mostly unfortunate, but still funny).... Tell him "well you're my elder and you should set an example for me so YOU should be the one not swearing..."

[Koroshiya-Ichi]

"I don't give a [hilarious use of swears when he just yelled at me for swearing] what you think. The fact of the matter is, you're a woman and you shouldn't swear."

 

My blood is boiling right now. My brother violently swears (to the point that makes me scared of him) when something upsets him and my grandfather has never batted an eye. I swear and say one word when I'm upset and he always gave me dirty looks. I used to think it was because my grandfather just doesn't like me as much as my brother. But now I know it's because he's sexist and thinks just because I swear like any other 23 year old (and people in the television shows and movies he watches all the time) that somehow I'm going to be less attractive as a woman.

 

-- I can only comfort myself with the fact that in a few years I'll be able to move to Virginia where I don't have to be anywhere near this man ever again.

Holy , your grandfather might just keel over if he ever met me. When I'm not holding myself back I curse far more than even any rude-mouthed man I've ever met, but I've never had someone get on my case for it being 'unfeminine' (though I have no other vaguely feminine traits about me at all, maybe that's why.) I haven't read the rest of the thread so I'm sure it's come up a bunch of times before, but jesus, it's not any woman's duty to look or act attractively. Putting up with crappy sexist attitudes from relatives you can't avoid is one of the worst feelings.

 

I still can't believe how ignorant people can be about the negative impact their words and beliefs can have on their own family, particularly to kids and teens when they're still developing and hearing all that BS can really impact their self-image and worldview. Years ago my dad and I got into an apoplectic fight because I asked him to please throw away a piece of trash he left on the kitchen counter (which he is ALWAYS doing, to this day, because he knows my mother or I will throw it away for him if it's there long enough.) He rounded on me about trying to make him pick it up because it's just another one of my "stupid feminist issues" - which it IS, but that didn't even occur to me when I had asked him to pick it up. I just want to live in a house without trash rotting on the kitchen counter and I get yelled at for literally 20 minutes until I'm in tears because my own father has made me feel like I should be ashamed to have feminist views. I mean, what AUDACITY, to take offense to the fact that it's only the people without a penis that always have to clean up the filth HE creates.

 

...sorry, didn't expect to go off on that rant. The rage from that incident and others has stewed in me for years, we've had what seems like the same arguments for like 15+ years. Things like this really make me want to move out, but I can't.

 

 

 

 

edit: I've been reading a bit of the last few pages now and have a few questions/comments...

 

The hot girl probably got her coffee first because of some young guy who hasn't learned what true beauty is.

 

(incoming additional rant after my response to your post; please note that the vasty majority of what I'm about to say isn't directed at you, gizmo, your post just sparked some serious feels that I had to get out...)

 

What is true beauty, in your opinion? Is it physical, psychological, or a mix of both (and if so, to what degree/in what ratio)? More importantly, what value does it have beyond its role in interpersonal compatibility and chemistry between potential partners? I mean, at the end of the day who cares if someone is beautiful or not? My views on "beauty" - and I hesitate mightily to even use that word to refer to the screwed up self-esteem-crushing concept it has come to describe - are much more radical than most, as I don't subscribe to the idealistic "everyone is beautiful on the inside/in their own way" theory that many people seem to espouse. Of COURSE there are ugly people, both inside and out, in this world, as well as plain/average/mediocre people. I think ugliness and plainness should be acknowledged and celebrated just as much as "beauty," because if it's really true that what's outside doesn't count for much, then why the shame over being thought ugly, and why do females in particular strive to distance themselves from ugliness/plainness as much as possible?

 

I myself am ugly, although that's also partially my self-loathing talking, so I settle for letting people call me "plain," but really I am just pretty ugly. For a female to admit this is almost unheard of, people react as if I've said the most horrific insult you could imagine when I acknowledge my lack of attractiveness. On top of that, I don't wear make-up, don't shave my legs and rarely shave my 'pits, don't dress to accentuate my features, etc. I just do not see the point for doing these things, when not only do I not want to attract sexual/romantic attention, but I don't feel I should have to be appealing to anyone else's eye, especially not when I'm ugly in the first place.

 

Why pretend, why spend so much money and time and effort dressing myself up and trying to cover my flawed face and body when that's not what I really look like? WHO are we doing that for when we do engage in it? It was this disconnect between what I want to do with my body versus what magazines, TV, movies, and speaking to other women IRL told me I "should" want to look like that made me grow up so confused and angry and lonely. Nothing I do could make me beautiful enough by my culture's standards, no matter how hard I try and how much of my true identity I sacrifice in the process of conforming to those twisted ideals. There will always be another product I need to buy, another outfit I should be getting, more body hair I should shame myself into removing. Men are expected to look a certain way to be considered attractive too, but no cis man will ever truly understand the relentless, unforgiving pressure to conform to these types of unhealthy standards from a ludicrously young age, that women are forced to put up with. Even people like me that don't engage with the "beauty" industry will never, ever escape the shame-promoting messages and images it churns out. I've yet to meet one single woman in my life that didn't, somewhere in the back of her head, no matter how small, occasionally (or frequently) hear that voice telling her "you're not good enough this way - maybe if you lost more weight, covered more of those wrinkles, you'd fare better out in the world."

 

This is ingrained into literally every aspect of society, to the point where most people outside feminist circles don't even realize it's happening. I had my ex-bf, who claimed to love me and was himself a feminist, tell me I'm gross for not shaving my legs. I had my (male) therapist, who was otherwise a very sweet and wonderful man, make the horribly triggering and judgmental comment "yeah, you've got some meat on you" about my body after I confided to him that I was recovering from an eating disorder. 99% of the people I converse with regularly online ask me for my picture and, if I admit I don't like taking or sharing pics of myself, seem to think it's a personal insult that I refuse them the opportunity to view and judge my appearance. So many people so freely feel it's appropriate to pick apart and denigrate the appearance of a woman in a way that reduces her to little more than a flawed series of body parts and bodily functions. So again I have to wonder... what the hell is true beauty? Even if a woman has a wonderful personality and is a great person, she'll still 'pay the price' socially for her appearance if she isn't conventionally pleasing to the eye. Blargh, anyway, I've rambled enough on this and I have more to reply to in a sec, so I guess I'll end this here...

Edited February 21, 2014 by Koroshiya-Ichi

[BlitzDrake]

I'm just going to put my own views on sexism towards ME. Yeah a lot of women get offended by being told to get back in the kitchen or that they should stay home and clean. OR to raise kids.

The latter is the only one I have a problem with because, you know, I hate em/the thought of.

Guys tell me to get back in the kitchen I just laugh. I am more than comfortable with myself that I don't feel the need to lash out over a notion that carries on from stupidity and narrow mindset.

I love to cook, hell I like to clean too. I spend almost all my free time in the kitchen anyway (lol my computer is in here). I enjoy cooking and can cook very well. I enjoy cleaning (but thats because I don't have anyone else's mess to clean up), for some reason it gives me great satisfaction.

Sure I'm weaker than guys. I laugh at how weak I am, I can hardly lift a 5 pound weight ten times.

I would be more than happy to stay home all day like in the past...you know, without the notion that I need to spawn things, and if households could afford to only be sustained by one job (the guy) sign me up. xP I'd love to spend all day gardening and crap.

 

*No I don't advocate the notion that women are inferior but I also don't care what people think about ME. I care what I think about me.

It does bother me that some people have the view women are nothing more but beneath men but I'm not going to fight nor argue with someone who probably won't get that notion from their head either.

[Koroshiya-Ichi]

It will dissolve itself anyway, eventually. Just dont expect it to be as fast as the extreme/violent feminists want it to be. ... You cant expect people that were raised before that, to change their attitudes, and their child generation neither. I will not live to see absolute equality, but I think I dont need to - the current situation already is pretty good, considering the above.

This post is kind of appalling to me, tbh. It must be nice to feel ABLE to wait and hope for the system to dissolve itself, which I don't for a second believe could ever happen as it's designed to be self-sustaining. The people/groups in positions of power want, above all, to stay in power, and as hard as feminists and others are fighting to decrease sexism and discrimination and misogyny, there are FAR more people on the other side fighting just as hard to keep the current system functioning, or to set it back to a prior state in order to reverse some of our hard-fought progress. There is way too much political, corporate, and personal profit and influence at stake for the system to be allowed to passively collapse in on itself at any point.

 

It's absolutely unacceptable, in my opinion, to shrug and say "well, ignorance and bigotry already have a toehold in the older generations, they aren't gonna change, why try to persuade them?" I have both heard stories from others and seen, amongst my own family and friends, the positive changes in a formerly bigoted person that can come about as a result of persistent, well-reasoned arguments and evidence supporting the need for equality. It is NEVER too late for a person to change or listen to reason, but more importantly, no one should feel satisfied to lapse into complacency and be content with widespread ignorance and lack of awareness. Of course women can vote now and things aren't as bad as they used to be, but that is NOT good enough for now. It's much more difficult, if not impossible, to accept things as "good enough" when you grew up female and will likely be on the receiving end of sexism and oppression until the day you die - and sometimes even after that.

 

If patriarchy, misogyny and sexism weren't still going VERY strong, maybe I wouldn't have had to suffer with an eating disorder for nearly 15 years, maybe I wouldn't have felt like a tramp who was too weak to even tell someone about being sexually abused, maybe I wouldn't have felt the need to pretend to be less intelligent to avoid upstaging and alienating my male friends growing up, maybe I wouldn't have grown up hating my appearance and personality so much that it's made me incapable of loving myself even at age ~27 because I don't conform to impossible, damaging "beauty" standards and my behavior, interests, and thoughts don't fall into the narrow track of what is considered normal and acceptable for a woman. And I'm just one person, who grew up in a lower middle class white household in the most 'powerful' country on Earth, which means I had a ton of opportunities that many other women won't ever get. There are millions of people who have been and are, right now, being shamed and marginalized for not fitting the stupidly tiny definition of what a woman should be and act and look like. There are millions more who DO fit that definition but are suffering in other ways, who need people to bring attention and resources to their struggles.

 

The system currently in place and the attitudes that perpetuate it contribute to horrible things like rape culture, sky-high domestic violence rates, anti-choice legislation, continued underrepresentation of women in politics, and rampant racism, transphobia, and homophobia even WITHIN women's rights circles let alone outside them. It is important to fight NOW on behalf of the people that are suffering hugely negative consequences and being actively oppressed. For their sake, for my sake, for the sake of every single woman and PERSON that exists and will ever exist - because, yes, the issue really is that huge of a deal - we have to do everything we can, as SOON as we can, to improve conditions for all and get as close to true equality as possible. I don't believe complete equality is achieveable, because human nature will not allow it, but to call the current situation "pretty good" when there are so many extremely harmful flaws present and ongoing, it only shows how little you understand the damage sexism and misogyny can inflict. We live in a world where, depending on what country you're talking about, it can be not only tolerated but expected for women to be hurt, abused, raped, mutilated, killed, silenced, treated and spoken about as if they're subhuman... and personally, when I think about that, REALLY think about it and the toll of human misery it adds up to... I can't NOT want to actively attempt to change things.

 

Just sayin'. /lotsoffeelings

[gizmo1960]

The question was asked"what is true beauty?".

True beauty is not physical.

True beauty can be many things.

Mainly to sum it all up...

what I mean by true beauty is how a person is on the inside no matter what gender.

this can be.... interesting in some unique way,a compassionate heart, or many other things, any one of which makes a person pleasant to know or be around.

 

also about the dad who won't pick things up...

a real man knows that he should pick up after himself, that is just common courtesy as far as I am concerned.Maybe I was just raised different.

 

[Obscure_Trash]

*No I don't advocate the notion that women are inferior but I also don't care what people think about ME. I care what I think about me.

It does bother me that some people have the view women are nothing more but beneath men but I'm not going to fight nor argue with someone who probably won't get that notion from their head either.

I don't care what people think about me personally. I care when they believe societally ingrained stereotypes and make jokes based on these that normalize and desensitize people to discrimination. That make people sympathize with rapists and domestic abusers. That blame victims for their attacks. That make it so I'm not only paid less for doing the same work but so that people can literally be presented with evidence as to this discrimination and still have the guts to laugh it off and tell me "that's not true" or "it's because you have babies and leave work".

 

a real man knows that he should pick up after himself, that is just common courtesy as far as I am concerned.

 

Er- can we not do the whole "real man" thing here? There are a lot of problematic connotations with it. I agree anybody should have the decency of picking up after themselves, but that doesn't make somebody a "real man" (or "real woman"). ^^

[Zovesta]

Relatively off-topic, but I don't think that someone serving a hot chick her beverage first is sexism so much as it is unprofessionalism. >_> It's just that women's looks are more important than men's looks to most people.

[BlitzDrake]

I don't care what people think about me personally. I care when they believe societally ingrained stereotypes and make jokes based on these that normalize and desensitize people to discrimination. That make people sympathize with rapists and domestic abusers. That blame victims for their attacks. That make it so I'm not only paid less for doing the same work but so that people can literally be presented with evidence as to this discrimination and still have the guts to laugh it off and tell me "that's not true" or "it's because you have babies and leave work".

 

Well yeah, same here. I've never dealt with sexism to the extent most talk about on this thread so I don't really know everything bout this.

 

But like Baron said, we might be long gone before sexism is gone or cuts back a lot. There will always be people that instill that men must not cry, women are equal to men (as in one doesn't have to submit to the other because of role/sex) etc etc ______ insert other gender stereotype here.

Edited February 22, 2014 by BlightWyvern