Sexism

[Katzyn]

I work with a bunch of guys at an IVF media production facility, and I get varying degrees of sexism all the time...USUALLY it's playful, but one coworker in particular loves saying things like, "you know why it's not working, right? 'Cause Kat set it up", or "You throw like a girl =_=". Same guy is also very homophobic and beats up homeless guys (not even kidding - he got banned from a grocery store for it).

 

But the worst I've faced is definitely on the internet...mostly playing online games like League of Legends. I've noticed MMOs aren't too bad anymore. Most people in MMOs seem to accept that girls do indeed play, and that we're not all horribly bad. League of Legends though...is pretty bad. Female streamers get told to show their breasts on camera, sexual comments and insults about whatever, and are insulted in game ("Oh, that's why you suck...go back to the kitchen"). It's so stupid.

 

I feel lucky that my boyfriend (and my father, even! I'm a lucky girl) is a sensitive guy - he'll admit to crying if something upsets him. He doesn't make sexist jokes or remarks. And if people are being jerks to me, he'll defend me.

 

About the swearing comments...LOL. Your grandfather would hate me, too! Maybe cussing isn't always necessary...but it's certainly not "un-ladylike". It's just another word in the vocabulary. And it's certainly better than kicking something.

[High Lord November]

It will dissolve itself anyway, eventually. Just dont expect it to be as fast as the extreme/violent feminists want it to be. ... You cant expect people that were raised before that, to change their attitudes, and their child generation neither. I will not live to see absolute equality, but I think I dont need to - the current situation already is pretty good, considering the above.

 

Uh, no, it won't dissolve itself away. We have to work for it. And yes, I can expect that generation to change their view, and I can definitely expect their child generation to change. No one gives children enough credit; they are fantastic human beings, full of understanding and untapped potential. That is, if we promote equality and expose the issue through schools and the media. You know, change the environment they live in; parents and community aren't the only things that decide what a child will grow up to be like. Which takes work. Which is what we're trying to do.

 

Pretty good for you. We've gone from 0 to 50, which is comparatively fast, but when everyone else is going at 100, it isn't (those speeds are chosen at random for illustration purposes). You're saying that because we've comparatively increased our speed, we should consider it "pretty good". Nope. And we're just talking about fairly developed countries. Look elsewhere, and the situation can be downright horrifying.

[Syaoransbear]

Again, there seems to be a lot of sexism going on at work(male dominated field) and it's making me very angry.

 

Since I've started there, we've been incredibly short on people so all of us have been forced to work a lot of overtime to make up for it. I've frequently seen resumes on my bosses desk from males who were very well qualified(had experience not only at that job but in that field) and they never even got an interview.

 

Now I find out that finally we are getting 4 new employees starting at various times this summer. All of them are female.

 

I can't help but think this can't possibly be a coincidence. Not only is this a job where females are very unlikely to apply, but ALL of the new employees we are getting are females? I'm guessing for every female they hired, about 20 men probably applied for their position and never got it.

 

I think I know what's going on. I work in a plumbing supply store/warehouse and we also have an area where contractors(almost entirely male) come in and buy things as though it was a retail store. I think they are hiring women to get more contractors to come into the store. Essentially, they are using women as bait.

 

I'm angry that perfectly good men were looked over in favor of women and that I've been stuck working ridiculous amount of overtime because a secret requirement for the boss was a vagina. I'm angry that women are being hired and used because of their reproductive organs instead of their skills. I'm angry that all of my qualifications probably didn't matter because I was hired for my reproductive organs.

 

I'm just completely angry about this and I feel degraded and objectified. Of course my husband doesn't get it. He mocks me by saying "oh waaahhh I have a job, poor me". He doesn't understand the issues women face at all and he doesn't care.

[Ribombee]

That's the part I hate the most about sexism in our society. When someone complains, the first thing they are likely to hear is why it's stupid to complain. Seriously? It's stupid to want equality? I'm sorry, I didn't realize everyone around me was COMPLETELY INSANE. Its 'funny' how it's always the privileged saying it's stupid for the underprivileged to complain about lack of equality or how inequality doesn't really exist.

[octopi]

Relatively off-topic, but I don't think that someone serving a hot chick her beverage first is sexism so much as it is unprofessionalism. >_> It's just that women's looks are more important than men's looks to most people.

There are also a lot of men who seem to think being nice to women is a "cheat code" of some sort. The whole concept of the friend zone came from men who think they deserve sex just because they did a few nice things for a lady. I think that's probably the case for a lot of these people, even if it's mostly subconscious.

 

Anyway yeah I'm... Well gender is weird, but I'm dfab and look fairly feminine. My case is still way better than most people but the way my parents just look devastated when I reveal that yeah I bought a men's shirt because they're comfy or when I think about not wearing a dress to grad is ridiculous and I'm pretty sick of it all.

Edited June 29, 2014 by Fractional Pi Day

[JavaTigress]

MKay... I am going to put something in here.

 

I happen to be female and I also happen to play chess. Chess, if anyone wants to know, is one of those areas that, for whatever reason, is still primarily dominated by males; even in this day and age when women have far more opportunities than they once did. I am not sure the reason for this, honestly, but it is fact. A reality to such an extent, as a matter of fact, that some of the men, even now, have the idea that women generally cannot play chess or that they are noticeably weaker than male players when they attempt it. The generally consensus seems to be that 'women chess players are weird and rare, but if they exist they should stick to playing other women', and not engage in competition with the men.

 

Really? REALLY? REALLY? This kind of mentality truly ticks me off.

 

They actually have a separate world chess championship for women, a seperate tournament and title entirely to my understanding, rather than having what women contenders there are compete with the men for the proper one. My two cents on this... why is this even necessary? It makes no sense to limit myself to only playing against other women, simply because it seems like there aren't that many of us and, honestly, it sounds to me like some of the guys are just plain afraid of losing to girls. The whole 'segregation' thing sort of irks.

 

I find that way of thinking incredibly sexist and offensive; not to say incredibly insensitive to young women who might take an interest in the game.My uncle, who was the one who taught me to play the game, didn't think that way, fortunately; but you have no idea how irritating it is to read about famous chess players from relatively recent history... those who, supposedly, represent the game to those that don't play, making ignorant remarks about women and chess. Admittedly, Bobby Fischer, the one example I am thinking of at the moment, said a good deal of other offensive and ignorant stuff (which I am not going to get into here as it would be incredibly off topic and whatnot so...); and granted he probably COULD have beaten most women at chess with knights odds as he claimed ( Mind, he probably could also have defeated most men and have given them those same odds). All the same, the fact that it was said still bothers me... and that the sentiment behind it doesn't really seem to have gone away, not in the least. To this day, I get a particular thrill out of competing with the guys and in defeating them... Regardless I tend to play a particularly 'aggressive' game, partly because I end up feeling like I have something to prove. Both to them and to myself. I can, at least, be grateful for the rare exceptions... examples of women, like Judit Polgar, who basically challenge the idea by actually competing with the men. Maybe, eventually, this idea that women are incapable of the level of chess that men can achieve will be seen for the ridiculous, sexist nonsense that it undoubtedly is? I can hope that that is the case.

Edited June 30, 2014 by Silverswift

[Daxillionyx]

MKay... I am going to put something in here.

 

I happen to be female and I also happen to play chess. Chess, if anyone wants to know, is one of those areas that, for whatever reason, is still primarily dominated by males; even in this day and age when women have far more opportunities than they once did. I am not sure the reason for this, honestly, but it is fact. A reality to such an extent, as a matter of fact, that some of the men, even now, have the idea that women generally cannot play chess or that they are noticeably weaker than male players when they attempt it. The generally consensus seems to be that 'women chess players are weird and rare, but if they exist they should stick to playing other women', and not engage in competition with the men.

 

Really? REALLY? REALLY? This kind of mentality truly ticks me off.

 

They actually have a separate world chess championship for women, a seperate tournament and title entirely to my understanding, rather than having what women contenders there are compete with the men for the proper one. My two cents on this... why is this even necessary? It makes no sense to limit myself to only playing against other women, simply because it seems like there aren't that many of us and, honestly, it sounds to me like some of the guys are just plain afraid of losing to girls. The whole 'segregation' thing sort of irks.

 

I find that way of thinking incredibly sexist and offensive; not to say incredibly insensitive to young women who might take an interest in the game.My uncle, who was the one who taught me to play the game, didn't think that way, fortunately; but you have no idea how irritating it is to read about famous chess players from relatively recent history... those who, supposedly, represent the game to those that don't play, making ignorant remarks about women and chess. Admittedly, Bobby Fischer, the one example I am thinking of at the moment, said a good deal of other offensive and ignorant stuff (which I am not going to get into here as it would be incredibly off topic and whatnot so...); and granted he probably COULD have beaten most women at chess with knights odds as he claimed ( Mind, he probably could also have defeated most men and have given them those same odds). All the same, the fact that it was said still bothers me... and that the sentiment behind it doesn't really seem to have gone away, not in the least. To this day, I get a particular thrill out of competing with the guys and in defeating them... Regardless I tend to play a particularly 'aggressive' game, partly because I end up feeling like I have something to prove. Both to them and to myself. I can, at least, be grateful for the rare exceptions... examples of women, like Judit Polgar, who basically challenge the idea by actually competing with the men. Maybe, eventually, this idea that women are incapable of the level of chess that men can achieve will be seen for the ridiculous, sexist nonsense that it undoubtedly is? I can hope that that is the case.

I'm not an avid searcher or discusser of sexism and feminism, but I have to say that this is absolutely ridiculous. If it were a physical sport I could understand. Guys tend to be stronger than women, and that's how nature works.

But guys are not innately more intelligent than women. At all. I'm sorry you have to face such a thing.

 

I don't know why women don't take an interest in chess. I'm not that interested, for some reason unknown to me. But a lot of guys do seem to like it. Another mystery...

 

[JavaTigress]

I'm not an avid searcher or discusser of sexism and feminism, but I have to say that this is absolutely ridiculous. If it were a physical sport I could understand. Guys tend to be stronger than women, and that's how nature works.

But guys are not innately more intelligent than women. At all. I'm sorry you have to face such a thing.

 

I don't know why women don't take an interest in chess. I'm not that interested, for some reason unknown to me. But a lot of guys do seem to like it. Another mystery...

My thoughts exactly.

 

IF it were a physical sport, where a woman's body might ACTUALLY limit her ability to compete on an even playing field with the men, due to basic biology as you point out ( men are usually physically stronger), it would be understandable to have a separate tournament for the women. But it isn't. It is entirely mental... strategy, memory, recognizing patterns and such. A woman is just as capable of learning those things as a man. So... as it is, it just seems like a slap in the face to separate them. IF a woman is good enough, she should be competing for the world chess championship with the men... not some sort-of championship that only women are allowed to compete for. Mind you to my KNOWLEDGE there is no RULE against a woman competing with the men for the men's title... it just isn't a thing that happens. That almost makes it worse, like women have accepted that that is how it should be. It actually attracts notice when a women decides to skip the women's tournaments and championship to compete with the men, that is how unusual it is.

 

As for why fewer women play chess than men... I haven't any idea. That is a puzzle I have wondered about myself.

Edited June 30, 2014 by Silverswift

[Ribombee]

I'm not an avid searcher or discusser of sexism and feminism, but I have to say that this is absolutely ridiculous. If it were a physical sport I could understand. Guys tend to be stronger than women, and that's how nature works.

But guys are not innately more intelligent than women. At all. I'm sorry you have to face such a thing.

 

I don't know why women don't take an interest in chess. I'm not that interested, for some reason unknown to me. But a lot of guys do seem to like it. Another mystery...

Even in things that are based on physical strength, there are plenty of women who are stronger than plenty of men. Firefighters often discriminate against women, too. It's a real boy's club in may fire houses, even if the woman proves herself perfectly capable of pulling off the physical requirements of the job. I perfectly understand not allowing ANYONE who cannot pass the physical tests, obviously, as there are lives on the line. It should not matter, however, what the person's gender is.

 

As far as chess (and things like math and science), it's a very societal thing. As early as second grade, children start to associate things like math with males. In societies without that cultural bias, there is a fairly even number of men and women in mathematical and scientific fields. Even the toys we give our children affect both their perception and ability to do well in these fields. Math and chess are both analytical, and we teach our boys to be analytical from a very early age by giving them toys that encourage that line of thinking (legos, model sets, etc.). We give girls dolls. We give them princesses and sparkles galore. Don't get me wrong. I love the fantasy princess stories, but my absolute favourite fairy tale stories as a child were the Sinbad the Sailor. Finally, it is very difficult to be a woman in a scientific or mathematical academia career. Right at the crucial point in an academic career (i.e. right around the time when one would be trying for tenure) is also usually the time many couples are having children. Since our society still pushes women to be the main caretakers of the children, it makes it exceedingly difficult for women to really succeed in a math or science career. Until fathers are taking a truly equal role in childcare and household chores, we are going to keep seeing a gender gap in these areas. Yes, some fathers are great and do take that step, but overall, women still are considered to be the caretakers.

[edwardelricfreak]

idk about you guys but regardless of the sex and gender of my child(ren) in the future, I'm going to give them a variety of toys, be they "girl" or "boy" toys. :\ I really don't think it should make a difference.

 

It's not so much males are "stronger" than females (or any sex is stronger than another). Part of it deals with hormones and things. Those can determine how well you can build muscle or store fat. Generally speaking, those that are more male have an easier time building muscle. The way their bodies are build also generally have wider shoulders and narrower hips, providing good upper body strength and a higher center of gravity. Those that are more female have an easier time storing fat for nourishment and things like that. The way the bodies are built generally have narrower shoulders and wider hips, partly for having room for a growing child inside the womb and also for good lower body strength and a lower center of gravity for bearing the weight.

 

But all sexes may vary in a good number of ways. It doesn't mean that any of them are more superior or inferior. They're built that way for a reason and when you play to the strengths of how something is built, it's more easily done, but both can be fairly equal at most things, even sports.

 

That aside, things like chess of all things is a ridiculous place for discrimination. Because then, even biology doesn't really matter. It just depends on what we teach children. I'm actually glad that more recently, there are more science and math related toys and activities for girls, even if they're still sort of...pushing the "girly girl" thing (which is bull in general).

[Ribombee]

idk about you guys but regardless of the sex and gender of my child(ren) in the future, I'm going to give them a variety of toys, be they "girl" or "boy" toys. :\ I really don't think it should make a difference.

 

It's not so much males are "stronger" than females (or any sex is stronger than another). Part of it deals with hormones and things. Those can determine how well you can build muscle or store fat. Generally speaking, those that are more male have an easier time building muscle. The way their bodies are build also generally have wider shoulders and narrower hips, providing good upper body strength and a higher center of gravity. Those that are more female have an easier time storing fat for nourishment and things like that. The way the bodies are built generally have narrower shoulders and wider hips, partly for having room for a growing child inside the womb and also for good lower body strength and a lower center of gravity for bearing the weight.

 

But all sexes may vary in a good number of ways. It doesn't mean that any of them are more superior or inferior. They're built that way for a reason and when you play to the strengths of how something is built, it's more easily done, but both can be fairly equal at most things, even sports.

 

That aside, things like chess of all things is a ridiculous place for discrimination. Because then, even biology doesn't really matter. It just depends on what we teach children. I'm actually glad that more recently, there are more science and math related toys and activities for girls, even if they're still sort of...pushing the "girly girl" thing (which is bull in general).

Good for you. My parents learned early on that I was not into dolls, and they stopped trying to give me dolls. Instead, they gave me things relating to animals because that was always where my interests were. Is it any wonder I majored in biology and am now an entomology graduate student? It really is cultural, though, and even if parents do their best to stop it, it's very difficult to completely block it out from children. They get bombarded with the biases in the media, when they go to friends' homes to play, at school, etc. It's 'not okay' for boys to play with dolls because they are supposed to be 'masculine'. Yet some boys want to play with dolls. It isn't going to make them homosexual (if they are going to be, they are going to be regardless of upbringing) or a 'wimp'. My brother-in-law didn't want his sons watching My Little Pony because he thought it would emasculate them. Guess what? Several seasons later, and they are still the same boys. They fight with each other, wrestle, make fart jokes, and act like typical boys, despite liking MLP.

 

I do agree that it is terrible to push the girly girl thing even in science and math toys, BUT I can kind of see the reason why. When girls are being told from every side that they are supposed to be into pink, princesses, and sparkles, the only way to get them interested in math and science might be to present it alongside sparkly pink princesses. Again, I have nothing against any of those things. I love the colour pink (I love most colours, actually...), I like girly things, and I adore sparkles. I also love to dig in the dirt to grab a beetle, clone fly genes for later expression so I can determine the exact function, and nerd out about biochemistry.

[JavaTigress]

Good for you. My parents learned early on that I was not into dolls, and they stopped trying to give me dolls. Instead, they gave me things relating to animals because that was always where my interests were. Is it any wonder I majored in biology and am now an entomology graduate student? It really is cultural, though, and even if parents do their best to stop it, it's very difficult to completely block it out from children. They get bombarded with the biases in the media, when they go to friends' homes to play, at school, etc. It's 'not okay' for boys to play with dolls because they are supposed to be 'masculine'. Yet some boys want to play with dolls. It isn't going to make them homosexual (if they are going to be, they are going to be regardless of upbringing) or a 'wimp'. My brother-in-law didn't want his sons watching My Little Pony because he thought it would emasculate them. Guess what? Several seasons later, and they are still the same boys. They fight with each other, wrestle, make fart jokes, and act like typical boys, despite liking MLP.

 

I do agree that it is terrible to push the girly girl thing even in science and math toys, BUT I can kind of see the reason why. When girls are being told from every side that they are supposed to be into pink, princesses, and sparkles, the only way to get them interested in math and science might be to present it alongside sparkly pink princesses. Again, I have nothing against any of those things. I love the colour pink (I love most colours, actually...), I like girly things, and I adore sparkles. I also love to dig in the dirt to grab a beetle, clone fly genes for later expression so I can determine the exact function, and nerd out about biochemistry.

YES! Three cheers for female science nerds!

[lightbird]

90% of the students who graduated with a Master in biology in my year are female. Just saying. /is a molecular biologist herself

[edwardelricfreak]

90% of the students who graduated with a Master in biology in my year are female. Just saying. /is a molecular biologist herself

As harlequin said, it depends on the culture of the area someone is from. I think most of what we were referring to deals with places like the USA, which has a lot of male-dominated math and science fields.

 

It's nice that your class was female-dominated, though! That's awesome. And indeed, I do think gradually even places like the US are having more females enter fields originally dominated by men.

[KageSora]

It might also strongly depend on where you study--certain schools will have differences between them in terms of the gender spread across various fields because of the general attitude towards that in the local area.

[JavaTigress]

It might also strongly depend on where you study--certain schools will have differences between them in terms of the gender spread across various fields because of the general attitude towards that in the local area.

Yes, this is certainly true. Attitudes in local areas woul;ld be sure to affect it. How could they not?

[octopi]

I once heard about a study done with male and female babies where they tried to see how steep a ramp they could climb up. Both sexes managed about the same steepness, but when their parents were asked to estimate what they could do, the boys' guessed about right and the girls' guessed an average of 10 degrees less steep than what they could actually do.

 

Maybe later in life hormones do have something to do with it, but a lot of it is definitely preexisting bias.

 

(Also whoop whoop mostly female kid here going into math once I reach university. I'm aro/ace probably so it's going to be equal parts hilarious and maddening if/when people ask me out)

[Syleye]

As a mom and a woman it is interesting to watch the sexism debate. For instance I suck at math but am really good at languages, on the other hand I've been called many names including confused because I tend to be assertive when dealing with problems. I want things fixed...now (supposedly a male tendency )

 

I am raising a girl who is 7 and a boy who is 16, the girl is by far the more adventurous and most likely to get hurt of the 2. He's quiet, and more intellectual. I have tried to support their interest and ignore all sides of the kids toy issues. He wanted a doll...he got a baby doll. She loves iron man so she got that.

 

 

I do find my ultra feminist sister in law funny, she was determined that her little girl would not be girly in any way, yet her daughter has her own mind and interests. Extremes tend to not work.

[KageSora]

What some of those extreme feminists forget is that it's okay for a female to want to be girly or to want to be a housewife or want to do "girl things". To dress up for a man or to want attention from men. It's not okay for them to think they HAVE to do that because "that's what women do", or to feel like they have no choice besides being that way.

 

Equality should be about the right of the female to choose if she wants to conform to what's currently considered feminine or if she wants to break away from that. (And for males, too--they need the ability to do whatever they want without being teased or looked down on for it. Breaking down the gender stereotyping and this assigning gendered roles to freakin' everything is important to the advancement of equality for all genders and sexes)

[Htt71]

Kagesora, that pretty much sums up my entire opinion in a quick read.

 

On a seperate note, am I the only one annoyed with some of today's extreme feminists who excel at double standards and constant "rape" (Stare rape and other completely rediculous versions) complaints?

[Koroshiya-Ichi]

Extremists of any ideology are unpleasant to deal with.

[KageSora]

Nope, you're not the only one--but then, I also tend to figure that listening to the radicals in any group isn't often worth anybody's time. They're radical and extreme and a poor representation of the group and generally make your brain hurt if you pay too much attention to them. I try to pay them little mind besides watching to see if whatever group it is at the time is trying to suggest some sort of legislation that's dangerous.

 

Most of them have their minds made up and aren't willing to have civil, sane discussion and don't see reason so they're often not worth wasting time with. Not just feminists--pretty much every group that has extreme outliers who hold radical views.

[Drinking_Water]

My opinion on sexism:

Male = Human.

Female = Human.

 

Human = Human.

 

Bye.

[Dekka]

My opinion on sexism:

Male = Human.

Female = Human.

 

Human = Human.

 

Bye.

- bows to you -

this

[DustyBelle]

I believe KageSora has the right of it. Sexism definitely exists and is used by many to quell, stop and discriminate against humans by humans of the other gender (usually.) Your intellect, interest and drive are far more important than your plumbing in determing what you can do and how you should be seen by others. Physical limitations can limit some of what some people may be able to do. However,, just because you are one sex or the other does not rule out many things that you can do if you want to do them and try to do them. Guys can't bear children and women can't father them.

 

Children shoild be given options and not pushed into any particular path. Unfortunately econmoics can play a part in determining what one can do. Money is necessary to learn some skills and do certain things.

 

Sexism still plays a big part in the world. This is true in both third world nations and "leading nations." The idea is wrong no matter whether it is cultural or simply bias due to upbringing. Look into your hearts and heads and others and see them as they are and allow them to be what they want to be.

 

Were those really supposed to be jokes back on page 1 with the girl mouthing off and the other side attempting to get her goat in the "joke"? My sense of humor is a bit different from most.