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[Fuzzbucket]

An example of important information that was told by TJ in IRC and only appeared on the forums because members who were on chat put it out on the forums later:

 

".<TJ09>: People catching vampires and held eggs to "bounce" them back is not intended behavior

<TJ09>: I've already blocked the catching of repulsed vamps.

<calankh>: that explains why people were failing at catching vamps, then

<CoffeeAddict>: @J so no one can catch a repulsed vamp with the abandoned link?

<TJ09>: CoffeeAddict, nope.

<TJ09>: If I wanted people to be able to catch them, I wouldn't make them auto-abandon to begin with"

 

There were other times, but I don't have them on hand.

Exactly - Grox, please note !

 

And sure, chat was friendly enough; it was just cliquey at times - inevitable and fair enough; I could have been pushier - and more to the point, frankly dull. If I want to talk about pizza - well, let's face it, I DON'T want to talk about pizza ! To be perfectly honest I don't particularly WANT a chat experience. Which is why we should not NEED to go there - and at times - as olympe has just shown - it IS the place important info is given out quite casually.

 

There HAVE been other cases where someone has posted here what TJ said in IRC. I haven't the time to run a search, but I'm sure someone else can remember some. And Socky would not have set up her thread if she weren't aware that IT DOES HAPPEN.

 

And like raindear - I once had to go there for a trade, way back when - and it was not AT ALL clear what one was supposed to do. You don't expect to have to read all the rules just to meet someone who told you to be there, and you have no intention of posting anything but "ready" and "got it" !

Edited February 7, 2013 by fuzzbucket

[TheGrox]

But on a similar note; being a member of DC doesn't require you to join the forums at all. So if you don't join the forums, you can't really get any important information, either. Just saying.

 

There is no requirement for you to come on the IRC, especially with Sock's new thread, and there is no requirement for you to be on the forums, either. Just leave it at that.

 

Also, fuzzbucket, I'm pretty sure raindear is not olympe. ...

Edited February 7, 2013 by TheGrox

[Fuzzbucket]

But on a similar note; being a member of DC doesn't require you to join the forums at all. So if you don't join the forums, you can't really get any important information, either. Just saying.

 

There is no requirement for you to come on the IRC, especially with Sock's new thread, and there is no requirement for you to be on the forums, either. Just leave it at that.

 

Also, fuzzbucket, I'm pretty sure raindear is not olympe. ...

True Edited.

 

If you don't come to the forums you don't know half the stuff we all know and which we need to know about changes in. Sadly, there ARE two classes of player - those who get the forum info and those who don't. But those who DO come here should get all the info HERE. A lot of players cannot get into IRC anyway because of various computer restrictions that even TJ cannot do anything about (I know I can't in the library, for instance.)

[olympe]

Ahm, you forgot to edit me out in the first instance... *waiting for the warn to fall*

 

Anyway, I'm not overly fond of the chat, myself. And I'm not against chatting at all, I actually like to do so within small groups, at least. (I've also participated in some chats with a couple dozen participants, and it wasn't that bad, either.)

 

But going into a chat and waiting for anyone say something you're interested in means that you may have to wait for a long time, as I've seen a couple of times. Most of the times I was in the chat, either there was no conversation at all, or it was about topics like Pizza or whose cat had just died and what kind of cats everybody had. (I don't particularly like cats, I'm more of a dog person...) The only exceptions to that experience were during holiday breeding seasons and/or holiday releases.

[Isuzu]

I'd just want to add a little on the news on forum vs news on chat discussion.

 

I got my forum account about one year after getting my scroll, mainly because I wanted to be more up to date with the news (and was interested in trading, but that's another story), however even before getting the account, I'd noticed for a while that the Forum had a news section where announcements were made so I checked it every now and then to see if something was happening. Even if you don't have a forum account, it's not that hard to find out the news since the forum link is right there on the main page, so most people who have a little experience with these things knows that forum = place where news is posted. On the other hand, I didn't even know the chat existed for a pretty long time after joining the forums.

Socky's idea of the "unofficial" news thread was great, but sadly, nothing really seems to be posted there.

[rubyshoes]

Just in case anyone misses the new News thread. Here's a link to the Ask-A-Mod subforum http://forums.dragcave.net/index.php?showforum=38 which was discussed earlier in this thread.

[Fuzzbucket]

Just in case anyone misses the new News thread. Here's a link to the Ask-A-Mod subforum http://forums.dragcave.net/index.php?showforum=38 which was discussed earlier in this thread.

GREAT STUFF ! Thanks for this

[Xylene]

We're getting a little off-topic here, I think? (In my case this is great; I know the chat, so I can offer something.)

 

I'm not going to say the chat is a perfect place for everyone. I don't mean this badly, but the forums are 'slower' and more 'polished'; kind of formal and refined. The IRC tends to have people throwing rough ideas at each other, bouncing from one thought to the next.

 

As far as I know, TJ doesn't tell the IRC all the changes he made to the cave. If someone decides to highlight him and asks him, or starts some sort of theory in the main chat, sometimes, if we're lucky, he answers. Most of the time he just sits there and lurks because it's... pretty informal. Just a place to relax.

 

I know more people in the chat, and after I managed to pop in enough to make some friends (waaay back in early 2009!) it kind of became my second home. The IRC is what the forums lack for me - informal rambling, a place to relax, no separate, orderly threads. I can have a casual conversation with the mods in the main channel, and switch from rambling about Pokemon to laughing about something silly my sister just said 10 seconds ago, and it isn't tagged as 'off-topic' because, well, the whole place is off-topic. I think that's the point.

 

Which... basically brings me back to saying, "I'd like to get to know the forum mods better, and have a place to chat, and have a place to just relax." The forums won't be able to measure up to the chat for me, but I would like to be comfortable enough to post without worrying I'll upset a mod. And... now I'll be off to stalk the new subforum. It looks fun.

[TheGrox]

I am very glad to see that the mods are listening to us, and I am very pleased to see the new whack-a-mod Ask-a-Mod section. It's a step in the right direction. Thanks guys.

Edited February 7, 2013 by TheGrox

[HeatherMarie]

Hmmm...

My problems with the forums most often are, that, if there is a new release, you want to share your opinion about the dragon.

Yes, most people will see it as nagging, but not every person likes all things the same.

 

That´s what my problems with the forums are.

I'd REALLY like to expand on this and add my feelings.

 

It seems that this forum has a very strict "don't say anything bad about any sprites because that's being mean to the spriter" outlook. I've seen many threads shut down because of it, because of users (fairly politely, I thought) pointing out little mistakes or things they noticed about certain sprites. I've heard of people getting warned for outright saying that they hate a certain sprite.

 

When new releases come out, I'll comment on the colors, the pose, etc, but if I see ANYTHING AT ALL that I don't particularly care for, I shut up. Because I'm afraid of getting warned.

 

And this really can't hide behind the "be nice to each other" rule. Users SHOULD be allowed to state their opinions about sprites, even if that opinion is negative. As long as they aren't calling out the spriter and saying the spriter did a bad job or something, I don't understand this whole thing about not being able to give our honest opinion about sprites.

 

I've heard "It will hurt the spriter's feelings, they put so much work into that sprite", but do you have any idea how many topics/posts around here have "hurt" *my* feelings? Do I consider it a warnable offense when someone says something that personally hurts me a little? No, because they aren't talking to me, and they aren't breaking the "nice" rule. So why should we have to tip-toe around what we say about sprites, just because it might hurt someone's feelings? If a Spriter has gone through that whole Dragon Requests thread process, chances are there have already been people who've picked apart their outlines, their anatomy, etc etc.

[Khallayne]

I'd REALLY like to expand on this and add my feelings.

 

It seems that this forum has a very strict "don't say anything bad about any sprites because that's being mean to the spriter" outlook. I've seen many threads shut down because of it, because of users (fairly politely, I thought) pointing out little mistakes or things they noticed about certain sprites. I've heard of people getting warned for outright saying that they hate a certain sprite.

 

When new releases come out, I'll comment on the colors, the pose, etc, but if I see ANYTHING AT ALL that I don't particularly care for, I shut up. Because I'm afraid of getting warned.

 

And this really can't hide behind the "be nice to each other" rule. Users SHOULD be allowed to state their opinions about sprites, even if that opinion is negative. As long as they aren't calling out the spriter and saying the spriter did a bad job or something, I don't understand this whole thing about not being able to give our honest opinion about sprites.

 

I've heard "It will hurt the spriter's feelings, they put so much work into that sprite", but do you have any idea how many topics/posts around here have "hurt" *my* feelings? Do I consider it a warnable offense when someone says something that personally hurts me a little? No, because they aren't talking to me, and they aren't breaking the "nice" rule. So why should we have to tip-toe around what we say about sprites, just because it might hurt someone's feelings? If a Spriter has gone through that whole Dragon Requests thread process, chances are there have already been people who've picked apart their outlines, their anatomy, etc etc.

I'm pretty sure this really depended on the way the negative thing was worded.

 

"I hate the sprite. It's the worst thing ever. It makes my eyes bleed." vs.

 

"The sprite isn't to my taste. I find the colours oversaturated."

 

One the artist can work with and the other the artist cannot. I believe every time I had warned for someone not liking the sprite wasn't because they had expressed dislike, but how they had expressed dislike. And I did this due to the respect rule and constructive crit rule.

 

It's the different between: "You're ugly" and "I don't think that dress suits you. Wrong shape."

 

Mind you... If I said that to my partner in either form, I'd likely get slapped. However, I digress! I hope this makes it slightly more clear.

[angelicdragonpuppy]

(Oboy here I go again ; _______ ; )

 

Maybelesswarnsforminimodding? It's one thing if fifty users pile on one person and start dishing out nastiness themselves, it should be another if someone politely says "hey bro, chill out, you're being kinda mean."

 

These two posts should not have netted me a warn... but they deed.

 

(Guys, it's just a game, calm down ;; and stop giving out hints after you're dead, that kinda ruins the point, you know?)

 

It is (was?) a game, [NAME]. Playing it well isn't a requirement. Please try to be more polite.

 

I did report in the second case, but I still posted because I know mods can take a while to get around to checking things and I was hoping a gentle poke would prevent further meanness. I was just trying to help out, and I feel like I got smacked for it. If you see two people arguing, and you try to help calm things down, the cop doesn't come up and fine you for it, do they? It's only if you become an antagonist yourself (start yelling as well, attack someone, start a mob, crazy stuff like that). Not if you just try to peacefully put a quick end to things. Think it should be that way here. ;____;

Edited February 8, 2013 by angelicdragonpuppy

[Khallayne]

Best to PM the moderator who warned you about it and state your side.

 

Were you host? Because if so, I'd mention that as well. If not, then I'd bring it up with the moderator.

 

I know of what you speak... and goodness. It's exploded so many times (not quite your specific one)... It has a habit of doing that.

[zara]

(Oboy here I go again ; _______ ; )

 

Maybelesswarnsforminimodding? It's one thing if fifty users pile on one person and start dishing out nastiness themselves, it should be another if someone politely says "hey bro, chill out, you're being kinda mean."

 

These two posts should not have netted me a warn... but they deed.

 

 

 

 

 

I did report in the second case, but I still posted because I know mods can take a while to get around to checking things and I was hoping a gentle poke would prevent further meanness. I was just trying to help out, and I feel like I got smacked for it. If you see two people arguing, and you try to help calm things down, the cop doesn't come up and fine you for it, do they? It's only if you become an antagonist yourself (start yelling as well, attack someone, start a mob, crazy stuff like that). Not if you just try to peacefully put a quick end to things. Think it should be that way here. ;____;

I wonder what would happen if I had told the user that, would I have been warned for mini modding if I was defending myself? This is why I feel like if I slip up and say something that the mods think was wrong but is just me being defensive I will get a warn for it.

 

Luckily I did not say anything

Edited February 8, 2013 by zara

[Khallayne]

I wonder what would happen if I had told the user that, would I have been warned for mini modding if I was defending myself? This is why I feel like if I slip up and say something that the mods think was wrong but is just me being defensive I will get a warn for it.

 

Luckily I did not say anything

Depends on how it's said and what was said, really.

 

If my past experiences mean anything.

 

(Also, don't take this as dismissing, because I'm listening and reading. I do not want to dismiss.)

Edited February 8, 2013 by Khallayne

[angelicdragonpuppy]

Best to PM the moderator who warned you about it and state your side.

 

Were you host? Because if so, I'd mention that as well. If not, then I'd bring it up with the moderator.

 

I know of what you speak... and goodness. It's exploded so many times (not quite your specific one)... It has a habit of doing that.

I did talk with them ~Removed, please keep content of PMs private ~ But even a single warn feels like an undeserved slap on the wrist. I was very polite about things, only made one post per issue arising, and in one of them I even mentioned something that was related to the general idea of the topic at hand (aka to stop giving out hints when much of the game requires secrecy). So I still feel I didn't deserve any warn. If I'd gotten TWO my jaw would've hit the floor. ;;

Edited February 8, 2013 by LadyLyzar

[zara]

Depends on how it's said and what was said, really.

 

If my past experiences mean anything.

 

(Also, don't take this as dismissing, because I'm listening and reading. I do not want to dismiss.)

Oh, ok . Hypothetically: what if I was to tell someone who said this to me: "ERMAGERD WHY DID U GET DAT EGG FIRST!!! I WANTED TEH EGG!!!" and after reporting I post this: "Please understand that I wanted the egg as well. Also, please remember that writing in caps can come off as yelling and hurt people eyes.(Like it hurt mine )" Would that come off as mini modding or politely telling someone to stop?

[Khallayne]

I understand. Again, all I can say is bring it up to your moderator. Putting it up in the public thread doesn't entirely help the cause, though your concern was valid.

 

Bringing up the warns themselves in the thread can mean that they may get glazed over while a PM brings it directly to the moderator's attention.

 

Those threads make things difficult when they blow... both for user and moderator...

 

Oh, ok . Hypothetically: what if I was to tell someone who said this to me: "ERMAGERD WHY DID U GET DAT EGG FIRST!!! I WANTED TEH EGG!!!" and after reporting I post this: "Please understand that I wanted the egg as well. Also, please remember that writing in caps can come off as yelling and hurt people eyes.(Like it hurt mine )" Would that come off as mini modding or politely telling someone to stop?

Kind of a judgment call there. Yes, there's some form of mini-modding, especially in the way that you asked for him to take off the caps. Same time, politeness... Entirely a judgment call.

 

I always looked at it in the eyes of what's going on, and how I'd treat other members who said the exact same thing. If I got a person where I'd go: "nope, wouldn't report it for them," I'd leave it be.

 

That one is in grey area since it is mini-modding to a certain extent, and not mini-modding can be extremely difficult. But it depends in context and location. Generally, I just report when I'm not a moderator on situations like that. And it's never so much because the way you said your incident is bad. Because it's entirely true that you are being entirely polite, and that goes into consideration. But generally I'd just go: "If this wasn't about the egg. And if this was about a different topic, what would I do?" because I use to try to treat situations fairly... Which always made me come off as a little stricter than I wanted to be.

 

Edit: hit post instead of preview. x___X Deleted prior post and attached it to this one. Sorry.

Edited February 8, 2013 by Khallayne

[zara]

I understand. Again, all I can say is bring it up to your moderator. Putting it up in the public thread doesn't entirely help the cause, though your concern was valid.

 

Bringing up the warns themselves in the thread can mean that they may get glazed over while a PM brings it directly to the moderator's attention.

 

Those threads make things difficult when they blow... both for user and moderator...

 

 

Kind of a judgment call there. Yes, there's some form of mini-modding, especially in the way that you asked for him to take off the caps. Same time, politeness... Entirely a judgment call.

 

I always looked at it in the eyes of what's going on, and how I'd treat other members who said the exact same thing. If I got a person where I'd go: "nope, wouldn't report it for them," I'd leave it be.

 

That one is in grey area since it is mini-modding to a certain extent, and not mini-modding can be extremely difficult. But it depends in context and location. Generally, I just report when I'm not a moderator on situations like that. And it's never so much because the way you said your incident is bad. Because it's entirely true that you are being entirely polite, and that goes into consideration. But generally I'd just go: "If this wasn't about the egg. And if this was about a different topic, what would I do?" because I use to try to treat situations fairly... Which always made me come off as a little stricter than I wanted to be.

 

Edit: hit post instead of preview. x___X Deleted prior post and attached it to this one. Sorry.

Omg you explained it so well you are my favorite person on this site now!

 

Thank you for explaining that so well, I understand what mini modding actually means now!

 

 

[Ashes The Second]

I understand. Again, all I can say is bring it up to your moderator. Putting it up in the public thread doesn't entirely help the cause, though your concern was valid.

 

Bringing up the warns themselves in the thread can mean that they may get glazed over while a PM brings it directly to the moderator's attention.

 

Those threads make things difficult when they blow... both for user and moderator...

 

 

Kind of a judgment call there. Yes, there's some form of mini-modding, especially in the way that you asked for him to take off the caps. Same time, politeness... Entirely a judgment call.

 

I always looked at it in the eyes of what's going on, and how I'd treat other members who said the exact same thing. If I got a person where I'd go: "nope, wouldn't report it for them," I'd leave it be.

 

That one is in grey area since it is mini-modding to a certain extent, and not mini-modding can be extremely difficult. But it depends in context and location. Generally, I just report when I'm not a moderator on situations like that. And it's never so much because the way you said your incident is bad. Because it's entirely true that you are being entirely polite, and that goes into consideration. But generally I'd just go: "If this wasn't about the egg. And if this was about a different topic, what would I do?" because I use to try to treat situations fairly... Which always made me come off as a little stricter than I wanted to be.

 

Edit: hit post instead of preview. x___X Deleted prior post and attached it to this one. Sorry.

If you edited it to say 'it would be lovely if you didn't use caps; it can be harmful and rude to other users'. Saying it as a command is not what they'll think is nice; a suggestion is much better. It's not a judgement call, it's the difference between a suggestion and command.

[Khallayne]

Ashes, I'm saying how I used to moderate things. I am no longer a moderator.

 

If I passed by: "it would be lovely if you didn't use caps; it can be harmful and rude to other users", I wouldn't have warned it. But I used to try not to edit user content too much unless there was egg spam.

[angelicdragonpuppy]

I understand. Again, all I can say is bring it up to your moderator. Putting it up in the public thread doesn't entirely help the cause, though your concern was valid.

 

Bringing up the warns themselves in the thread can mean that they may get glazed over while a PM brings it directly to the moderator's attention.

As I mentioned, I did contact the mod, but nothing changed. As such (and since this thread was already sort of on the topic of warns), I thought I'd bring it up. It seems like another blanket rule like no spam, no rudeness etc that gets used too much. Again, I can see where things are coming from on the modly side (you don't want other users attacking the person to defend the original one, making things worse; you don't want a mob forming and derailing the topic; etc), but I also think that there are times when it should really be allowed to slide. A polite reminder from a single person to play nice should not be enough to warrant a warn for them.

 

In other words, don't use the "no minimodding" rule as a blanket rule; use it selectively for cases where the person(s) trying to help is actively making the situation worse. Which is usually not the case, both from what I've seen with others and from my own posts. ^^;

 

Gently telling someone to relax or reminding people that it's just a game should not in itself be a punishable offense.

Edited February 8, 2013 by angelicdragonpuppy

[Khallayne]

As I mentioned, I did contact the mod, but nothing changed. As such (and since this thread was already sort of on the topic of warns), I thought I'd bring it up. It seems like another blanket rule like no spam, no rudeness etc that gets used too much. Again, I can see where things are coming from on the modly side (you don't want other users attacking the person to defend the original one, making things worse; you don't want a mob forming and derailing the topic; etc), but I also think that there are times when it should really be allowed to slide. A polite reminder from a single person to play nice should not be enough to warrant a warn for them.

 

In other words, don't use the "no minimodding" rule as a blanket rule; use it selectively for cases where the person(s) trying to help is actively making the situation worse. Which is usually not the case, both from what I've seen with others and from my own posts. ^^;

Don't get me wrong, I see your point and understand completely what you're saying. I, however, can't give you an answer on anything right away. That's not in my ability, and I'm not dismissing your concerns. I'm merely saying things from my point of view, and was trying to offer something that would guarantee that you were heard from the moderator you were contacting.

 

That doesn't mean that your intentions weren't to be helpful.

[angelicdragonpuppy]

Don't get me wrong, I see your point and understand completely what you're saying. I, however, can't give you an answer on anything right away. That's not in my ability, and I'm not dismissing your concerns. I'm merely saying things from my point of view, and was trying to offer something that would guarantee that you were heard from the moderator you were contacting.

 

That doesn't mean that your intentions weren't to be helpful.

Oh I know you weren't, I just wanted to explain why I was posting here as well!

[Khallayne]

Oh I know you weren't, I just wanted to explain why I was posting here as well!

Got that! We seem to have the same situation where we both tend to explain ourselves fully. Haha.