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[HeatherMarie]

Post edits. Tough one. One forum I am on, when things get bad, posts are edited or even deleted (and PMs are sent.) There will be a note in the thread - as a rule - saying that posts have been removed, and why - but not whose. That may seem like censorship. Well, it is, I suppose.

Adding my 2cents (yet again).

 

Logically, trying to think like a mod, I completely understand the occasional need for post-edits, or even post-deletions. The BIGGEST PROBLEM I've seen regarding this issue is that users aren't always notified that their post *has* been "modified". I've gotten confirmation from a particular mod that they *always* notify when changing/deleting a post, but I don't know about all the others.

 

To me, this is yet another case of "rules aren't clear enough". It *seems* like this forum has an abundance of rules, but when it comes down to it, there are problems that simply aren't addressed in those rules. If a mod is going to have the "power" to edit/delete a user's posts, that should be SAID somewhere in the rules, and it should also be a RULE that the mod in question contact the user about that post.

[Ashes The Second]

The system we have now is a case-by-case basis -- I got warned for posting on the other side of an opinion because a user claimed that their dragons wouldn't be 'speical' if there were more of them. I tell them that I wat to know why exactly they feel that way, and what happens? I get warned and the two posts get deleted. So wait, I can't have a conversation in regards to what a user considers a special dragon on the thread about said dragons?

 

I'm getting a really, really trigger happy sense from the mods, and really don't feel comfortable posting this because I'll probably get another warn from the same mod. Yay. But seriously, this behavior needs to stop -- warns are not a light thing for a lot of users, and when you've got so many piled, you'll post your opinion anyway.

[Thuban]

Any time a mod has had to edit one of my posts, I have recieved a pm explaining it, either on this site, in the chat by pm or offsite. Wherever said mod happens to find it easiest to get my attention.

 

On my own forum, as I have said before many times now, if we removed, edited or changed a users post, a note was left for /why/ the content was removed and to pm the mod for more info (in my own section, i just followed up with a pm, because I had scripts to c/p from, and it didnt take long to add a personal note as well relevant to the specific situation)

 

A simple "Removed for flaming" or "content removed for spam" goes a very long way, but only if the post owner is inform something happened to their post.

[Tawanda001]

There is a difference between having a conversation/asking questions and belittling or trying to guilt someone because the opinion they expressed doesn't agree with your own.

[Fuzzbucket]

There is a difference between having a conversation/asking questions and belittling or trying to guilt someone because the opinion they expressed doesn't agree with your own.

^this^

[Nine]

I don't get it.

 

Some guy posted in the News thread what amounted to 'I haven't caught a new egg yet', but using creativity and first-person narrative. It was deleted and anyone referencing the post had their posts removed as well. It wasn't off-topic because it was discussing how they haven't caught an egg yet, something that is posted thousands of times every new release. The only difference was that they used creative language and fun in their post instead of the same, old, predictable thing.

 

Honestly, there's genuine "off-topic" things such as trading talk or whatever, but this was taken way out of proportion. It comes across as being disproving of anything creative, interesting, unique, or fun, and the only posts desired are things you could copy word-for-word from any other release topic.

 

I don't think stifling harmless things-- that are not off-topic-- is a good thing.

[AngelKitty]

Wait, that cute Star Trek post was removed? Seriously? It wasn't role-playing, it was a refreshingly creative take on the usual "I haven't gotten an egg why can't there be egg limits I hate my computer wah wah etc etc." Good grief.

 

I agree with Nine, the new release threads are overmodded, IMO. Verbal warnings are posted with no indication as to what was considered off-topic and copypasta of the OP as the only indication of what's "on-topic"...except maybe half the times I checked previous posts, they were all discussing the matter in the OP.

[Reidragon]

I don't get it.

 

Some guy posted in the News thread what amounted to 'I haven't caught a new egg yet', but using creativity and first-person narrative. It was deleted and anyone referencing the post had their posts removed as well. It wasn't off-topic because it was discussing how they haven't caught an egg yet, something that is posted thousands of times every new release. The only difference was that they used creative language and fun in their post instead of the same, old, predictable thing.

 

Honestly, there's genuine "off-topic" things such as trading talk or whatever, but this was taken way out of proportion. It comes across as being disproving of anything creative, interesting, unique, or fun, and the only posts desired are things you could copy word-for-word from any other release topic.

 

I don't think stifling harmless things-- that are not off-topic-- is a good thing.

This! I was actually quite upset and the user was also new to the forums and I thought it was pretty cool that he or she spoke up at all. If I had been that user that action might well have scared me away from the forums completely. I don't get why his or her comment was removed. Because what? It wasn't sterile enough? Sorry but that whole thing seemed wrong to me. Over censored I think. His post hurt nobody and it was clever well thought out and amusing :/

Edited March 6, 2013 by Reidragon

[HeatherMarie]

I agree with Nine, the new release threads are overmodded, IMO. Verbal warnings are posted with no indication as to what was considered off-topic and copypasta of the OP as the only indication of what's "on-topic"...except maybe half the times I checked previous posts, they were all discussing the matter in the OP.

I didn't see the post in question, but I agree with this. New-release threads get WAY too many "stay on-topic" reminders WITHOUT it being pointed out what we are doing that isn't considered on-topic. I get that trade-discussion is off-topic in these threads, but is it off-topic to critique the new dragon's looks, get in a conversation about the patterns/pose/colors used? Is it off-topic to say that you missed the initial release and are now annoyed that they aren't dropping as often already? Is it off-topic to speculate on different attributes/attitudes/descriptions this dragon may have, based on the egg description or hatchling looks? These are things I see ALL the time in those threads, which is why I'm using them as examples.

 

Honestly, it's fairly *useless* for a mod to come in and give everyone a warning to stay on-topic when it's not specified HOW we aren't staying on-topic.

[Cinnamin Draconna]

Truthfully, if the post is about the release, the sprite, speculations about rarity, breeding or possible lineages, I don't see how you can get OFF topic on a new release. No one really knows anything about it yet, so everyone wants to talk about it... A LOT! So as long as it isn't a discussion about trading eggs or eggspam, I think it IS on topic.

 

Sure things might get sidetracked or even blown totally off course, but as long as it's 'something' about the new release, why call it off topic? It's new, so EVERYTHING is relevant until we actually KNOW what is what. So until the darn things have become adults and we have the official info, how about slacking off on the off topicness.

[whitebaron]

I'd have loved to see that post.

I avoid new release topics like the plague, because most of their replies boil down to - thanks tj and spriter, I got xxx eggs already, or I have none they are so hard to catch!

 

I consider that a lot more spam than anything, cheap ways to up your post counter without creating any original content.

[Oddsoxdi]

If you can't post saying things like 'I didn't get the egg' in a novel way - then perhaps there needs to be a form-letter thing that we can fill out so we don't break all those rules and make sure we toe that line.

 

Does anyone know exactly WHY the 'bad post shame on you for posting that!' Star Trekish post was deleted? I only saw the red line ordering the poster not to role play in the new release thread. Now I read here it wasn't that at all.

 

ETA: Did anyone keep a copy of that particular post - that MOST people seemed to enjoy immensely?

Edited March 7, 2013 by oddsoxdi

[Obscure_Trash]

I wasn't around (midterms), so I'm not quite sure what happened, but it seems like it is just confusion between members and mods on what happened. The posts are really Star-Trek-y and, as shown here, attracted a lot of attention. The news topic seemed to be turning into a topic that was discussing the posts and RP'ing rather than the new dragons, so the related posts were removed to avoid this. We will keep in mind your thoughts on this issue. I apologize for the confusion. ^^;;

 

Here are the posts, if anyone wanted to save them (original user - if you aren't okay with these being posted, please let me know):

 

Captains Log, Stardate March 6

 

We have been orbiting a planet where there are sightings of a new life form.

 

Starfleet ordered us here 2 days ago. Our mission is to capture one of these shy and slippery creatures. Starfleet considers this mission is of the highest priority so all regular shipboard activities have been cancelled until such time as our mission is complete. This means no recreational or educational activities, and only a minimum of sleep is allowed.

 

Sent down a landing party on the day we arrived here and while they have seen about half a million of these life forms, they have so far been unsuccessful to capture one. They seem to appear only in the mountains on the only land mass, and then only for brief periods every hour.

 

It would appear that the Klingons, Romulans, Ferangi, and even the Borg are also hunting this new lifeform for the landing party has reported seeing over 300 other landing parties at various times while there.

 

The landing party, having only had 5 hours sleep in the time they have been hunting this lifeform, have reported that once or twice they almost had one of the creatures but a Borg transporter beamed it away a second before they could grab it. I have beamed down a portable tractor beam device developed by young Mr. Crusher in an effort to allow the party to capture one when they next appear in about 15 minutes.

 

It is our hope that they will be able to capture one then and the ship can return to normal activities.

 

Captains Log Supplemental -:

 

The tractor device was a huge advantage as the landing party has finally managed to capture one of the life forms.

 

Have informed Starfleet of our success and brought the landing party back on board for some well earned rest and sleep.

 

Orders arrived from Starfleet to acquire another of the life forms for possible breeding. As our cargo bays are currently full I will allow the landing party a full days rest before sending them down again. Hopefully the life forms will be easier to capture in the future.

 

Meanwhile life on-board returns to some degree of normality.

 

Further reports to come.

Edited March 10, 2013 by SockPuppet Strangler

[Zovesta]

Lmao at those posts. I don't see what's wrong with them at all? It's just a funny way of saying what pretty much everyone else is saying.

 

That being said, I think people are getting a bit too triggerhappy when it comes to "spam". If it isn't completely dominating the topic, what's wrong with an offtopic post (though the star trek ones aren't even offtopic el oh el) here and there? The whole point of the forums is to have fun and socialize.

 

Unless I'm supposed to stay strictly on-topic when it comes to convos in real life. In that case, I've been doing it all wrong.

 

But yeah, it just seems like people are starting to enforce rules for the sake of enforcing rules rather than actually deciding if something is harmful to the current topic or not. =/

 

This isn't even directed at the deletion of that one post so much as it is just a comment on the forums in general nowadays. I feel like I'm being choked here rather than actually communicating and having fun. It's a fairly big part of why I stopped being active here.

Edited March 11, 2013 by Zovesta

[Obscure_Trash]

Unless I'm supposed to stay strictly on-topic when it comes to convos in real life. In that case, I've been doing it all wrong.

Chat is why TJ created the IRC. The point of topics on a forum is that they have, as their name implies, a topic.

[Zovesta]

Well yeah? My point is what is the point of having on topic-ness being so strict. I mean, seriously. What is the actual point here? I'm not getting it. From what I've seen, it seems like the second you start toeing the line, you get slapped with a warn. Which makes this place seem way more hostile than fun.

 

Also, the definition of "on topic" seems really, reaaaaaallly slim here. Suppose people are debating I guess meat in RL. This conversation could easily take a turn for animal abuse but still be about the original topic. Here, it seems like unless you're shouting out "anyway about this meat which comes from animals that have meat is really tasty but also maybe bad and it sure is meat!!" yer gettin warned.

 

It just seems like a big overreaction to a little thing.

 

See, I'm also on forums where the topic changes pretty much every page, but it's also a small community. I'm not asking for that here. I'm asking for a bit of leverage. =P

Edited March 11, 2013 by Zovesta

[olympe]

Seriously, this Startrek post is hilarious! (And I'm not even remotely into Startrek. I barely know enough to understand the post...)

[Admiral_Craymen]

Well yeah? My point is what is the point of having on topic-ness being so strict. I mean, seriously. What is the actual point here? I'm not getting it. From what I've seen, it seems like the second you start toeing the line, you get slapped with a warn. Which makes this place seem way more hostile than fun.

 

Also, the definition of "on topic" seems really, reaaaaaallly slim here. Suppose people are debating I guess meat in RL. This conversation could easily take a turn for animal abuse but still be about the original topic. Here, it seems like unless you're shouting out "anyway about this meat which comes from animals that have meat is really tasty but also maybe bad and it sure is meat!!" yer gettin warned.

 

It just seems like a big overreaction to a little thing.

 

See, I'm also on forums where the topic changes pretty much every page, but it's also a small community. I'm not asking for that here. I'm asking for a bit of leverage. =P

I agree with this. This is the reason I left the whole site, even the dragon collecting part for almost two years (I'm Yamarath on PN, by the way). I got a warn for saying I was having trouble with something, and I was told it was spam and I got a warn for it. Then I got another warn because I was posting about how upset it made me feel. When I came back, I apologized to the mod who gave me the warns because I felt like I was being a jerk to her.

 

On other forums I've been on, you only get warns for doing something really bad, like being rude to other members or spamming on purpose, not for accidental spam, which is what I did. Other forums just delete the accidental spam.

 

Even now, I rarely post except for in Forum Games section, because I'm afraid I'll do something wrong. I'm afraid I'm doing something wrong right now just posting this.

[HeatherMarie]

Also, the definition of "on topic" seems really, reaaaaaallly slim here. Suppose people are debating I guess meat in RL. This conversation could easily take a turn for animal abuse but still be about the original topic. Here, it seems like unless you're shouting out "anyway about this meat which comes from animals that have meat is really tasty but also maybe bad and it sure is meat!!" yer gettin warned.

 

It just seems like a big overreaction to a little thing.

Completely agree!!

 

I honestly do get the need for a general "stay on-topic" rule. We have that rule at all 3 other forums I'm on, too. But *none* of them are *this* strict. And as I posted before, a lot of us (me included!!!) honestly don't *get* where that line is, because it seems to be such a *strict* line.

 

Example: In the "sexual orientation" thread over in GD, there have been multiple posts that deal with religion and the different religious views over different orientations. It's still *about* the topic, just focusing on a different aspect of the topic. I haven't seen any posts deleted or any mod-warns in there because of that.

 

And yet the new-release threads, if ANYONE says ANYTHING that isn't strictly "look at these new eggs what could they be", it seems like they get stamped with a spam label. I've seen the new-release threads get *way* over-modded, mod-warns in the thread when I'll looked back 15-20 posts and not see a *single* post that I would ever conceive of being off-topic in any way.

 

So I'm not just ranting, here's what I *suggest*:

1. Loosen up a little about the definition of "off-topic", *especially* in the new-release threads.

2. If a mod posts a "stay on-topic" warning, PLEASE specify WHAT we are doing that is considered off-topic.

[Zovesta]

Yyeahh, I reiterate: "... it just seems like people are starting to enforce rules for the sake of enforcing rules rather than actually deciding if something is harmful to the current topic or not."

 

Yeah no, I get the point for keeping on-topic on a thread. I just don't get why it has to be as strict as it is. As Marie19R said, it seems to vary from topic to topic, and y'know, rules that confuse people tend to need an overhaul. =P Or at least an explanation.

 

I just don't get where there could be any harm in loosening up the rules a bit?? Allowing for an off topic post here or there or a small steer in the conversation flow while it still pertains to the main topic. If the off topic posts go on for a bit, then politely remind people of the original topic and suggest they make a new one or something. If it's just a few people saying a few "off topic" things, let em.

 

Do people have spontaneous heart-attacks when they see someone going off topic here or something.

 

Dogs.

 

Dogs are not related to the current topic.

 

I went off topic.

 

I killed fifty people.

Edited March 12, 2013 by Zovesta

[whitebaron]

I believe suggestion threads need more actual moderation,than they currently get.

 

Its not that people actually go far off-topic, but the usual thing is like this:

 

Suggestion A is made by an interested player. Suggestions B,C,D are being thrown as counters, some will get disapproved by many, some approved by others. Invariably, 2 pages later, they are all discussed as one big suggestion, and most of the time, thread openers have to struggle hard to keep the topic focused on their original idea. If they don't, its another of those recently typical threads which just go nowhere. I've to yet actually see a thread in here that comes to an actual "finished" state, since most of the time, people just get tired of bumping their heads.

Edited March 21, 2013 by whitebaron

[Pokemonfan13]

But what else is to be done? Have 4 threads talking about essentially the same thing? To me what should be done is the OP should add the other options to the first post and make them official. After all, the thread should be about ____ problem to be solved and the different ways it could be done, not a specific solution.

[Vhale]

I've had a thought in the back of my head that suggestion threads could use a constructive crit guide, the same way as the art crits do. But I haven't thought of a concrete way to format that. So I'm suggesting it hoping to inspire someone

 

I don't think it's a good idea to stifle threads. But perhaps there is a way to guide people into making more useful feedback or opening posts? a How To perhaps. Guide though, not a strict outline.

Edited March 21, 2013 by Vhale

[Spelunker]

I agree with what everybody above me said about the release threads. Maybe setting out what IS considered spam, and letting everyone talk about any aspect of the release? That's what the thread is for.

 

I just got a warn for going through and bumping old threads by accident in the Introductions section. I admit that I didn't read the rules all that carefully, however, it seems a little strict to officially warn somebody for welcoming members to the forum. :/

 

I would have appreciated a PM from the mod who warned me a lot more. Rather than referring me to the rules again and giving me a warn, I would have taken a PM explaining what I did wrong in a nice tone of voice a lot better. It would seem like the mods, instead of trying to just get the message across and move on, were actually trying to help the community stay on topic/read the rules/etc in the future, by TEACHING what the user did incorrectly.

[whitebaron]

But what else is to be done? Have 4 threads talking about essentially the same thing? To me what should be done is the OP should add the other options to the first post and make them official. After all, the thread should be about ____ problem to be solved and the different ways it could be done, not a specific solution.

The problem is, that most of the times suggestions a and b are compatible and in line with what the op had in mind, c is a tangent and d is opposed. You can't discuss this all at once.

and thats what a moderator is actually for, steering discussions so that topics dont discuss tangents or opposite directions. As far as I can see, mods intervention is usually is only policing, warning rule breakers. The rest of the actual "moderating" of suggestion threads is left to the users themselves. And this does not work. A user creating a thread according to his personal ideas can never be an impartial moderator.