Abortion

[AnanoKimi]

The reality of it is, there are far more reasons someone may choose an abortion (financial, time, just don't want to be pregnant/give birth, etc.) and all are valid. Nor does it matter how one got pregnant in the first place - it should be no one's business but theirs.

 

 

 

 

Now this I can agree on. Comprehensive sex education that covers all options before and after sex, is what helps prevent unwanted pregnancy and therefore abortion. And that right there is how abstinence should be taught - no one learns anything from being told "just don't do it."

I'm glad you agree on the sex ed part.

 

Well things like not wanting to give birth is an unwanted pregnancy which can be avoided trhough proper education and proper protection. Financial issues also are pat of unwanted and uneducated sexual encounters.

 

teaching people from an early age that sex is a thing that must be respected, do it with the knowledge of this and this being a thing, and that pressure and abuse are not good ways to be introduced into sex, then maybe people will be able to make better decisions and plan better for a future in which they can enjoy having sex without the risk of unwanted pregnancies.

 

Lack of proper education is the leading reason under privilaged and low income people end up having children. Poor education on how to handle a sexual encounter can lead to STDs and unwanted pregancies. Teaching kids what sex is really like can lead to better decisions early on and healthier more self conscious individuals who can enjoy something as wonderful as sex in a healthy and protected manner.

[High Lord November]

I'm glad you agree on the sex ed part.

 

Well things like not wanting to give birth is an unwanted pregnancy which can be avoided trhough proper education and proper protection. Financial issues also are pat of unwanted and uneducated sexual encounters.

 

teaching people from an early age that sex is a thing that must be respected, do it with the knowledge of this and this being a thing, and that pressure and abuse are not good ways to be introduced into sex, then maybe people will be able to make better decisions and plan better for a future in which they can enjoy having sex without the risk of unwanted pregnancies.

 

Lack of proper education is the leading reason under privilaged and low income people end up having children. Poor education on how to handle a sexual encounter can lead to STDs and unwanted pregancies. Teaching kids what sex is really like can lead to better decisions early on and healthier more self conscious individuals who can enjoy something as wonderful as sex in a healthy and protected manner.

I fully agree with higher sex ed and doing that with the addition of making abortions less stigmatized. Sex ed is a must must must, and people should still have the free will to have safe access to abortion for whatever reason. Sex ed will reduce the rates big time, and abortion will be there in case things didn't work out, they were put into an unexpected position after the decision, or they didn't have access to good education for any reason, or for any other time which they're in a position where they do not want to go through with the pregnancy.

[AnanoKimi]

I fully agree with higher sex ed and doing that with the addition of making abortions less stigmatized. Sex ed is a must must must, and people should still have the free will to have safe access to abortion for whatever reason. Sex ed will reduce the rates big time, and abortion will be there in case things didn't work out, they were put into an unexpected position after the decision, or they didn't have access to good education for any reason, or for any other time which they're in a position where they do not want to go through with the pregnancy.

Pretty much. Having higher sex ed education as well as justhigher education in general will aid in so many of these decisions. Teaching children and teens about jobs, taxes,self reliance, self sufficiency, how to cook, and relationship helath as well as self worth will all aid into better decision making for things like financial stability, college and university, and sexual partners and relationships. All of this will help drastically reduce the numbers and constant need of abortions while still leaving abortion there for those who may need it.

[Brotato]

Address the problem at the root. Invest in better sex ed.

 

Aside from that; If you want one, you should be able to get one.

The only requirement should be having the unwilling mother be informed thoroughly of what the procedure involves and to have her rethink it to make sure she's absolutely certain she wants to abort her foetus.

 

Better to get this procedure out in the open and have it regulated by the government, so that it's clean, and safe. Because unwilling mothers will abort whether they can do so freely or not. Better they do it at a licensed professional than at Mister Ticklehands's and his coathanger in a basement somewhere for 20 bucks, or worse, by trying to get the child to be stillborn by abusing alcohol or smokes and other such unhealthy substances. Yes, that does happen...

Edited July 4, 2015 by Brotato

[Starscream]

I get my birth control pills very low cost because of my husband's health insurance - I need them for something other than birth control. But the cost of condoms is quite staggering. I look at a box and usually decide that some bread and milk are higher priority - hoping that no illness causes the pill to malfunction. Because illness and taking other medication can interfere. There are health units around, but I can't find one local. My doctor does not have a "candy-jar" of condoms like other doctors I have gone to.

 

Sometimes to person of lower income, this can be difficult. Sex ed is useful. I know it was when I went to school. But the powerful nature of the mating urge can actually cause one to ignore common sense. It has to be a powerful urge - so as to propagate a species.

 

Morning after pills are a good idea especially if any of the protection fails, and it does. I do not think there should be a minimum age on taking that because sometimes very young people may make mistakes and their bodies are not really big enough or mature enough to handle child production. Especially since it appears children are coming into puberty earlier. Probably the growth hormones/GMO in our food and whatnot.

 

But I believe it is no ones business but the woman's when it comes to terminating a pregnancy. Her reasons are hers. And no one else's. She may want to discuss it with her partner, but ultimately that choice is hers and hers alone. The City, the state/province/country should have no bearing on her choice be it to terminate or carry through. Personal opinion and beliefs of others should not dictate to her what she should and should not do. It should be her own choice.

 

Having legal and safe options to terminate a pregnancy that has occurred for whatever reason is ideal because it would limit the risk to the woman to have a safe option. Indeed using it as a form of birthcontrol is pushing it - I would agree with people here. But the body can learn from this and reject a pregnancy early on... this could be detrimental to those who may wish to carry through at a later date - just not now. My sister had a friend who had this happen actually. A took a few miscarriages before one stayed after multiple aborts.

 

I am definitely a choice person. I want to see safe options to allow people their choice. I want to see affordable preventative measures also available to couples to avoid the need for a safe abortion. And a good healthy sex education is perfect.

[CatCreature]

You didn't type anything in your post so I don't really know know what you are trying to say. Are you pro-life or are you just showing us a couple of pro-life links? The first link I could not take seriously after the first sentence. I read the whole thing and it is massively misleading if not outright lying. The stories make me wonder if they were doing illegal abortions - if these stories are true at all.

I'm also confused about what Soulking is trying to say. I read both links and don't find any of them serious. The first one is, as you say, about late term abortions and there must be a huge reason for going through one.

 

The second one is plain silly, in my opinion. They focus so much on the question if the embryo/fetus is human or not. That's not what people debate about. It's human alright, we don't carry animal embryos. So no, it's not half-human when it's half-way through the birth.

[Cireth]

I'm also confused about what Soulking is trying to say.

 

The second one is plain silly, in my opinion. They focus so much on the question if the embryo/fetus is human or not.

I'm not trying to offend anyone here but actually people do try and convince themselves that the embryo/fetus isn’t human because if it's not human then they can kill it.

 

If it is human then they can't because that's murder and they need to abort it so it can't be human.

 

Yes I've talked to people who use that reasoning. So yes that is part of the debate. Of course it's human but people will try and tell me otherwise.

 

So the question is is it alright to kill another human being for ones own convenience?

Edited July 4, 2015 by Cireth

[Shienvien]

So the question is is it alright to kill another human being for ones own convenience?

There is also the difference between "just human" and "person"*. And "convenience" and "right to your own body".

 

*And I'd argue that killing not-another-individual-bound maybe-still-persons for convenience and culling costs is done often enough with adults with low survival/recovery chances -, but that is a whole 'nother can of worms.

[Sundew]

I'm not trying to offend anyone here but actually people do try and convince themselves that the embryo/fetus isn’t human because if it's not human then they can kill it.

 

If it is human then they can't because that's murder and they need to abort it so it can't be human.

 

Yes I've talked to people who use that reasoning. So yes that is part of the debate. Of course it's human but people will try and tell me otherwise.

 

So the question is is it alright to kill another human being for ones own convenience?

Sure, it's human. But it doesn't think, or feel, or do. It simply is.

It's technically human, but it's not conscious, it's not contributing in any way, and it's barely even alive.

 

"Human" in this context is a term not evaluating one's species, but one's consciousness. Using the word "human" can be misleading, as it's more akin to physical status as opposed to the actual subject being discussed: humanity. Fetuses have no humanity. They are most certainly human.

 

I think it should be entirely the pregnant woman's decision whether or not to have an abortion. She may allow others to influence her choice, but she and she alone should make the final call. This isn't emotionally valuing women over men. To me, it's a purely physical thing. A person should be able to do with they want with their body. If they don't want to support another life form, they shouldn't have to.

[Brite]

So near where I live, there's protesters outside of PlannedParent Hood from more "leaked" videos of propaganda. Right before voting around here starts. How convenient! My step mother was defending them and we got into a debate. I actually stumped her and she is now questioning her views. I usually never say this but.. I am proud of myself..

[Ælex]

I'm not trying to offend anyone here  but actually people do try and convince themselves that the embryo/fetus isn’t human because if it's not human then they can kill it.

 

If it is human then they can't because that's murder and they need to abort it so it can't be human.

 

Yes I've talked to people who use that reasoning. So yes that is part of the debate. Of course it's human but people will try and tell me otherwise.

 

So the question is is it alright to kill another human being for ones own convenience?

An embryo is as much a human being as a seed is an apple tree.

Just because it has the potential to become a human being, doesn't automatically give it the same rights as an actual human being.

 

I'm pro-choice. If a woman wants to abort her child, she should have every right to do so.

More-so, if a man wants to not raise a child but can not convince the mother-to-be to abort it, he should have the right to financially disentangle himself from the commitment and forfeit any connections with the resulting offspring.

 

Accidents happen. Bringing unwanted children into this world, children who would most likely go un-loved and un-cared for or be raised in some abysmal orphanage, or by some air-headed teenage bimbo and jackarse instead of a proper home can and should be easily avoided by giving this freedom of choice to the unwilling mothers.

 

Just my 0.02$

Edited August 23, 2015 by Ælex

[nlechoppa]

Sure, it's human. But it doesn't think, or feel, or do. It simply is.

It's technically human, but it's not conscious, it's not contributing in any way, and it's barely even alive.

 

"Human" in this context is a term not evaluating one's species, but one's consciousness. Using the word "human" can be misleading, as it's more akin to physical status as opposed to the actual subject being discussed: humanity. Fetuses have no humanity. They are most certainly human.

 

I think it should be entirely the pregnant woman's decision whether or not to have an abortion. She may allow others to influence her choice, but she and she alone should make the final call. This isn't emotionally valuing women over men. To me, it's a purely physical thing. A person should be able to do with they want with their body. If they don't want to support another life form, they shouldn't have to.

Couldn't a vegetable be considered "non-human" then by your definition? Or someone in a coma isn't "human" by the same definition. A fetus at 14 weeks can move, a fetus at week 25 has regular brain patterns as well. A 25 week old fetus would be as human as someone in a coma or a vegetable, but we don't just kill them.

(I'm playing devil's advocate here, I'm fine with abortion.)

[Shienvien]

Couldn't a vegetable be considered "non-human" then by your definition? Or someone in a coma isn't "human" by the same definition. A fetus at 14 weeks can move, a fetus at week 25 has regular brain patterns as well. A 25 week old fetus would be as human as someone in a coma or a vegetable, but we don't just kill them.

(I'm playing devil's advocate here, I'm fine with abortion.)

We also do not perform abortions after the 21st (I think?) week unless there is something seriously wrong with the fetus. So this might be a bad comparison. ("Moving" is even less of a factor, as this is something most animals routinely do, even those animals we don't like.)

 

Nor is comparison with vegetative people a good one, since they take people in vegetative state off life support all the time... And even some comatose ones they don't think will make it. So yes, we do arbitrarily "just kill" them.

 

Besides, vegetative people aren't even physically attached to another person, so the bodily autonomy thing isn't an issue with them.

[sparkle10184]

Couldn't a vegetable be considered "non-human" then by your definition? Or someone in a coma isn't "human" by the same definition. A fetus at 14 weeks can move, a fetus at week 25 has regular brain patterns as well. A 25 week old fetus would be as human as someone in a coma or a vegetable, but we don't just kill them.

(I'm playing devil's advocate here, I'm fine with abortion.)

Vegetable and comatose people are taken off life support quite frequently. Sometimes the person will have made prior requests for what should be done in the case that they are in such a state, basically whether they would want to stay on life support or be taken off. If there were no specifications it is usually left up to the family (with recommendations from the doctors), as it should be in the case of abortion.

Venus fly traps move, are they human too?

[manypets4me]

Just putting out that I am Pro Choice....it should be the woman's business..

[Ælex]

Couldn't a vegetable be considered "non-human" then by your definition? Or someone in a coma isn't "human" by the same definition. A fetus at 14 weeks can move, a fetus at week 25 has regular brain patterns as well. A 25 week old fetus would be as human as someone in a coma or a vegetable, but we don't just kill them.

(I'm playing devil's advocate here, I'm fine with abortion.)

I wouldn't consider a vegetable non-human.

I'd consider a vegetable tasty and nutritious.

 

But yeah, it all falls within the confines behind a very vaguely drawn line.

[Twyro]

That's why there is an ethical line drawn for abortion at three months. The only times I support anything outside of it is when the mother's life is in danger and there is no other way to save her. After all, that IS what the medical ethics says and that's what I'm taught in college. That's why if one wants to undergo the procedure and get an abortion it should be done immediately when one finds out they're pregnant, before the embryo develops any further, before it's a faetus, before it starts resembling an actual human being. Trying to bomb someone with moral and social excuses and force an individual to give birth against their original feelings is worse to me. Because no one has the right to tell someone how to live their life.

 

I myself am a young, twenty-one year old woman and I dream of true love for as long as I remember. That true love includes, of course, getting married some day (though not obligatory) and having children with the man I love. When I find such a man and am able to provide a healthy and happy life to my children, I will, of course, give birth and try to be the best mother I can be. On top of that, I know that my kids will have the best two aunts and uncle someday as well.

 

BUT if I happen to get pregnant by being RAPED (which I wouldn't wish to my worst enemies, little less to myself or anyone I love), I would try to get rid of every trace of that horror happening to me, although you NEVER truly recover from that gruesomeness. If someone tries to say something like: "But it's YOUR CHILD and it's not its fault that it happened to you" I have this to say - OK, let's say that I decide to give birth to that child anyway, and one day it (and by IT I mean HE/SHE) asks me about its father, what would the child hear? "Your dad was a monster that ruined my life and I can never forgive that" and to have a child that would remind me of that horror would be even worse for the child than for me. I'd do my best to love it, don't get me wrong, but if my child had to live with the fact that one of its parents did something so disgraceful would be so shameful and it would never have a completely happy and careless life.

ALSO, if it turns out that my child could be born with a severe condition/deformity/disease/syndrome that it would have no chances against and that could kill it, I would simply HAVE to give up on giving birth to it and end the pregnancy. There is nothing worse than to feel powerless as you see your child wither and die right before your eyes as all the other kids play carelessly, go to school, grow up, go to college, have families of their own, while yours is going to die before it even gets to live. The child will struggle throughout its entire life while you slowly keep dying on the inside because nothing compares to losing something so valuable and precious, irreplaceable as your own child, no matter if you gave birth to it or adopted it. You wouldn't even enjoy in the beauty of being a parent under such circumstances, so I'm against anyone who calls upon religion/moral/conservative beliefs/whatever and protests against abortion. I hope no one gets me wrong on anything that I have said, I love children and it would make me endlessly happy to have at least one someday, but there are circumstances and undeniably solid reasons not to have them because the consequences would be much, much worse.

Edited August 31, 2015 by *Silver Fox*

[Bex]

I've never seen a single valid reason why abortion should be anything but the mother's choice. It seems to me that a lot of people forget that abortion is not there for a woman to rid herself of a child she doesn't want, it's to rid herself of a pregnancy she doesn't want. There are a million reasons a woman might not want to be pregnant, and a million more reasons why a pregnant woman might not want to be responsible for a child later on. And it's no one else's business if these reasons are selfish or logical or not because no one but THAT woman would be forced to be pregnant by laws that make it impossible for her to have a safe abortion. It's no one else's business but hers and her doctors.

[Twyro]

I've never seen a single valid reason why abortion should be anything but the mother's choice. It seems to me that a lot of people forget that abortion is not there for a woman to rid herself of a child she doesn't want, it's to rid herself of a pregnancy she doesn't want. There are a million reasons a woman might not want to be pregnant, and a million more reasons why a pregnant woman might not want to be responsible for a child later on. And it's no one else's business if these reasons are selfish or logical or not because no one but THAT woman would be forced to be pregnant by laws that make it impossible for her to have a safe abortion. It's no one else's business but hers and her doctors.

Exactly. One time I heard that in my country (but not sure how true it is since the newspaper write all kinds of ), women who had an abortion no longer have the right to have health insurance. Again, I repeat, not sure if it's in my country or another one, but I think it's pretty unfair.

And I also dislike people who judge women who had an abortion. With what right and what valid reasons? Sadly, there are many of them.

[AppleMango]

Personally, I think that people shouldn't get an abortion unless they were raped or there are health complications which makes it a low chance that the mother will survive.

 

However, with that being said, I'm not one to force my opinions on others. If someone wants an abortion for a reason I don't agree with, I'm not going to do anything to stop them. If they ask my opinion, I would encourage them not to, but if they don't, then I will keep it to myself.

 

Although I've never been in this situation - and I can't 100% say that I know this is what I would do - I also feel like if I saw someone who was harassing someone going into an abortion clinic, I would go over and defend the person.

 

I guess what I'm saying is in the end, it should be the woman's decision - and if you don't agree with it, that's fine, but keep that opinion to yourself.

[Gruff]

I am against abortion in all but cases of rape, a danger to the health of the mother or something wrong with the fetus.

[Starscream]

I am for it choice.

 

Not just in regards to rape, or health, but in regards to the fact that some birth control fails, some medication alters cycle unexpectedly, and things happen. No person should be forced to bring to term something they are unable to handle. Such a pregnancy can also affect a persons ability to do a job, due to need to take time off from sickness that it can create. And then there are people who feel they are not financially able to support a child, and in the best interest, choose not to.

 

people can disagree with me, but no one has the right, what so ever, to tell me I cannot do what I feel is best for me and mine.

[Fuzzbucket]

I am against abortion in all but cases of rape, a danger to the health of the mother or something wrong with the fetus.

Why ?

 

Of course, as a man, you aren't likely to have to make that decision, so I guess it matters less to you.

 

Mental health of the mother counts too, and that is something that many anti-abortionists cannot seem to understand.

 

TOTALLY pro choice here.

[JavaTigress]

Anyone's thoughts on the Planned Parenthood videos?

 

I mean, regardless of how you feel about abortion itself... it seems to me that SELLING for research, particularly IF they are giving out BC as well,represents a conflict of interests.

[Obscure_Trash]

Anyone's thoughts on the Planned Parenthood videos?

 

I mean, regardless of how you feel about abortion itself... it seems to me that SELLING for research, particularly IF they are giving out BC as well,represents a conflict of interests.

Are you talking about the badly-cut, anti-choice propaganda video that misrepresented what was happening or the real interview?

 

http://mediamattersforamerica.tumblr.com/p...ve-attack-on-an

 

This is from a USA Today article about what fetal tissue is used for in research:

 

What is fetal tissue used for?

 

Tissue from elective abortions and miscarriages is used for a wide variety of purposes. Scientists who want to regenerate organs and tissues may use it to learn how the human body makes them in the first place. Others look for defects in early development that can cause disease or miscarriage, or study normal development, which can guide therapeutic strategies. The tissue is also used to learn how medicines or toxins affect a fetus.

 

What diseases are being studied today?

 

AIDS and muscular dystrophy, for example. Some experimental treatments for spinal cord injury and macular degeneration involve transplanting fetal cells into patients. And European researchers recently began a study of putting fetal tissue into patients' brains to treat Parkinson's disease, a strategy that has had mixed results in the past.

 

Does the woman have to agree to using the tissue for research?

 

Yes, she has to give consent. And the matter can't be raised until after she has decided to have an abortion.

 

Can't researchers just use stem cells instead?

 

Stem cells, including those obtained with adult donors, can develop into a variety of tissues in the lab. The European researchers in the Parkinson's study and others hope to learn enough to use them someday for transplant tissue. Experts say stem cells have already substituted for fetal tissue for some purposes, but that scientists still need fetal tissue to learn basic information about how organs form, or help them simulate certain diseases in the test tube.

 

I've absolutely no problem with PP doing what they are doing. The patients give consent, the research is extremely useful, and PP is non-profit just working on ways to make sure they can continue to provide care to patients.

 

I am against abortion in all but cases of rape, a danger to the health of the mother or something wrong with the fetus.

 

So what is your plan for determining who has been raped so that they may have an abortion?

 

Many people are in situations where they do not feel safe enough to come out as being raped (ex. domestic abuse - they know that there is a large chance of being murdered if they try to escape; people denied an abortion are less likely to leave an abusive situation because now they have their own lives and the life of a child to get out). Many are not ready to admit they are raped. People who are raped who talk about it are often not believed or even disowned by family and friends. Police try to talk people out of reporting rape. It's not easy to tell people you have been raped.

 

Demanding proof of rape is only going to put unnecessary pressure on and harasses rape victims/survivors.

Edited September 2, 2015 by SockPuppet Strangler