Abortion

[whitebaron]

@fuzz: you can't be as careful when kids are that young. So the blame lies only on the parents. But yes, not totally accurate example. I like the dog one from syaoran better. (I hope you did not mean to imply all woman are dogs, lol)

Also, while I did say fault, I probably used the wrong vocabulary in my translation. I dont think about blame, but about consequence. Got an idea what word I could have meant?

 

@syaoran:

actually, she got together with her neighbour only a few "moments" (dont know for sure, 2 weeks?) later.

I'm glad my wife was not raised that way. And our daughter sure as hell won't accept males as dominant.

 

And no, success to her is not about male approval. But being in relationships is for many people (males included, women are only part of this!) a driving factor of their lives.

 

I can tell you of another anecdote, of a male friend of mine: He would never quit on a girl unless he was pretty sure he would have another one immediately after. When one time he was left by HER, he was so unstable for weeks on end, the being alone resulted on him meeting all his friends like twice a day. honestly. I saw/phoned/chatted with him like 10 times a week, then.

[KageSora]

I'm glad my wife was not raised that way. And our daughter sure as hell won't accept males as dominant.

 

And no, success to her is not about male approval. But being in relationships is for many people (males included, women are only part of this!) a driving factor of their lives.

Actually, she probably was in some degree. It's inescapable to have that partially weigh in on you. It is, however, possible to buck the teaching society tries to ingrain. And some people just have naturally stronger personalities and are more resistant to that kind of thing so it makes it easier for them to escape the role society tries to force them into.

 

And good luck with your daughter--what do you plan to do, shut her in her room until she dies of old age?

 

Because that's basically the only way to avoid it--you are not the sole teacher of your children. Society is a large teacher to them. Their peers are huge teachers. Their school teachers will help shape their views of themselves and the world.

 

And these additional teachers WILL try to teach her that she is subservient to males. They will try to teach her that she must have the approval of males. That everything she does and is will be judged by males, and only if it's found satisfactory to them will it be of proper value. They will try to teach her that her body exists to be pleasing to the male gaze and, if he wishes, to his touch. That if she's raped, that she is the victim for putting herself out there for him without the intent of letting him have her--she was a tease, clearly she deserved it.

 

 

And, the sad part is... If you don't raise her to understand that many males will see her as lesser, that many males will see her merely as something to conquer, something that exists for their pleasure... She may very well end up as one of the statistics. We live in a society where you HAVE to be aware of that to actively try to avoid putting yourself in a situation where something will happen. Because we teach our females not to be raped but don't teach our males not to rape.

 

You don't have to teach her to BELIEVE she's actually just there for males--but you have to teach her that many of them will think that. Because otherwise she's at a disadvantage, because many of them WILL see her as merely another thing for them to take and use as they please, then discard when they're done.

 

 

 

Also, actually, you can't 100% prove it's not at least in part about male approval. The thing is, a lot of women seek it because they were taught that, but it's not something they're even aware of. It becomes so ingrained to you that you're not even aware of it. Sometimes not even when you try to be aware of it to change yourself.

[Fuzzbucket]

And this, whitebaron, is what you can never actually see for yourself, because it is never done to you.

[Aprilis]

So, I just came across this link on my tumblr dash. I'm absolutely disgusted.

 

Note: The linked page has no objectionable content, but I can't vouch for the rest of the site. Explore at your own risk.

[High Lord November]

So, I just came across this link on my tumblr dash.  I'm absolutely disgusted.

 

Note:  The linked page has no objectionable content, but I can't vouch for the rest of the site.  Explore at your own risk.

 

EDIT: Oh wait, those images aren't parody? Totally thought it was a scare tactic by the pro-birth movement. I didn't know that could happen.

 

That site is very confusing. I explored the rest of it, and it seems that they're actually pretty pro-choice; they should have made that more obvious.

Edited January 13, 2014 by High Lord November

[Kith]

That site is very confusing. I explored the rest of it, and it seems that they're actually pretty pro-choice; they should have made that more obvious.

Just the linked page says "pro choice" pretty loudly. The smaller print basically says that those situations do result in jail, and that they're fighting the fetal personhood laws.

[High Lord November]

Just the linked page says "pro choice" pretty loudly. The smaller print basically says that those situations do result in jail, and that they're fighting the fetal personhood laws.

Yeah I just got that. I was a bit hasty in my initial read-through, the images gave a first impression of a scare tactic.

[Kith]

Yeah I just got that. I was a bit hasty in my initial read-through, the images gave a first impression of a scare tactic.

Ah... I see. No worries. ^..^

[Hisa]

Alrighty so am just passing by and leaving my own vies.

If the pregnancy is not planned it's alwqys better having a look at can does it fit to you life at time-do you time for thw childs needs and also listening to the partners views, if no time rather have abortion than then later being in trouble because of not knowing what to do nor where to get money.

About protection I agree on the earlier "im male wants to have sex he shud have condoms, if woman then her". I personally rather use condoms than use pills because the pills can have side effects (not sure of how high chance of that is tho) and because I see pills as something that affects my body and how it works internally while condom is just an item which doesn't require anything that would affect you internally unless you are allrgic to them. So yah hence I'm planning to avoiding using pills aslong as I can, I do not know of statics US or in other places about marriage things as I am myself from finland - in US I've heard abortion might cost some money and if I remember right in finland only about 100euro or so+our health care is free of charge for most of part, in here you can usually get your first pills for free from the health center after they've made few tests to check that you don't have viruses or etc.

In over all tho it's everyones own choice, but the thing is with the 16year olds who might have recless sex and then find out they r pregnant and cudn't even give a tought for it before because of thinking "meh that ain't gna happen to me"

 

sorry if something sounds unclear tried to explain the best i could

[edwardelricfreak]

I personally rather use condoms than use pills because the pills can have side effects (not sure of how high chance of that is tho)... So yah hence I'm planning to avoiding using pills aslong as I can

They can, depending on the person, but it's usually nothing too bad. I'd say the worst possible thing is nausea, which I experienced once, but I don't think it's bad. I guess if you're someone who could get headaches from them that would kind of suck. But I think headaches would be a small burden to bear compared to pregnancy, etc.

 

The symptoms are stuff like nausea, cramps (like menstrual cramps, and they usually happen a week or so before the period starts, but I have cramps anyway so I didn't care), spotting, bloating (which at least for me happens normally during periods), weight gain, headaches, and maybe some other minor stuff that I can't remember. But still, nothing too bad.

[Hisa]

Well I've never used pills so far and cramps...well, I don't know anything about them either since always when my perioid starts I've no kind of sigb that I'm on perioid except of bleeding ofc (no pain or cramps or anything, it makes feel like an oddball after hearing many of others complaining how hellish their pains are :'D ) and well.. As being in a distant relationship I see my boyfriend about every six months (soon 2 years together) so sex is nothing that ocassional for me ^^

 

 

edit: and I did read a finnish artickle somewhere were a woman had can't remember what and it took a lot time to figure out that the cause of her whatever things had been the pills, also dunno if its just finland but in here still lat year was some talk about how little it's told about things pills can cause

Edited January 13, 2014 by Hisa

[whitebaron]

First off, @kage+fuzz: maybe you should move out of whatever backwater slum you are living in and move to a moremodern country.

i showed thst message to my wife earlier, and she said she has NEVER experienced stuff like this before she started working. At work its tough,though, women in IT are not really the norm so many people dont know how to handle it.

 

As for teaching kids your values: it actually takes time, that most parents do not tske themselves. I know the us drill, its how my half-niece in law is raised. 6 weeks maternity leave, then off to the crib. Then kindergarten, then preschool,then school. No wonder kids like that learn nothing aboutlife or their parents values. At 18 months of age, I have spent more time with our daughter, than both parents of my niece have spent with her in her 5 years together. And it shows.

 

@the pill: I suggest reading up on side effects a little more. While its mostly uncomplicated, there are even life-threatening side effects (especially in combination with various other conditions you might not even be aware of)

[Lila]

not religious, but I really like this website.

[prpldrgnfr]

Supreme Court rejects Arizona abortion ban

 

The U.S. Supreme Court on Monday declined to hear an appeals court ruling that said an Arizona law banning abortions starting at 20 weeks of gestation is unconstitutional, meaning the restrictive state law is struck down.

 

 

 

 

[High Lord November]

First off, @kage+fuzz: maybe you should move out of whatever backwater slum you are living in and move to a moremodern country.

i showed thst message to my wife earlier, and she said she has NEVER experienced stuff like this before she started working.  At work its tough,though, women in IT are not really the norm so many people dont know how to handle it.

So basically what you're saying is that, because you have never experienced something that you will never ever be able to experience and that one other person you know hasn't experienced it, it's a small, negligible issue that probably doesn't exist. And I'm pretty sure Canada and the US are up there.

 

You have to realize that men and women are treated very differently and have very different mindsets. You cannot apply your own experiences or your own mindset to this situation because women do not see or are seen by society in the same way men do/are. No, it doesn't apply in all situations, and the situations don't all have the same amount of severity. Yes, it is still really an issue and it is basically engrained in society, whether in small ways or large ways.

 

It really reminds me of those that suffer from depression.

 

"Well, have you, like, just tried not being depressed? It's all in your state of mind, you control that 100%, just get over it already."

 

You, as a non-depressed person, cannot truly sympathize with someone who is suffering from depression. You don't know what it feels like; you don't know what the issues are like, how society treats you and what it feels to be treated like that. You can't know what effect it has on your life; maybe consciously, you do, because you researched up on it, but you have absolutely no emotional connection to the effects. Therefore, after a certain point, you don't see them as major problems and begin to see them as overdramatizations or overreactions ("just get over it already", or in this case, "It isn't as bad as you're saying; you must live in a bad area, because it's completely absent from the truly modern world" (when it isn't)). You don't know, I don't know, you can't know, I can't know. Only the people who suffer from depression can know. And it obviously only affects people who suffer from depression.

 

We can also relate this back to why your opinion doesn't get weighed as much on the abortion issue (and why your opinion doesn't match up with what we're telling you). You are basically saying that you, someone who has never suffered from depression (and lets say you never will) should get equal (many cases heavier) weighted opinion on what it feels like to be depressed compared to those who actually have been depressed. Your opinion, in the end, should mean nothing, because you're not the one who is depressed. You really cannot and do not and never will have to deal with the issues and side effects, but you still want equal voice. Which is ridiculous.

 

That is the best analogy I can think of right now.

 

 

So calling anything involving solely females "sexism" is ridiculous. If you don't get stuck with the consequences, and you aren't affected by the consequences you don't have a heavily-weighed vote. If you could give birth, then for sure; you can't, so no. If you are affected by the same issues that solely affect the female population, then sure. No? No. That isn't sexism. This is a women's issue. Women are stuck with the consequences and affected by the actions; men aren't, because we are different and will most likely always be different on some levels. That is a simple fact of life today.

 

 

Also, nice picture, god.ofthedead.

Edited January 14, 2014 by High Lord November

[Syaoransbear]

I'd say the worst possible thing is nausea, which I experienced once, but I don't think it's bad.

I think the worst side effect is probably death lol. Birth control is pretty famous for its side effect of blood clots.

[edwardelricfreak]

I think the worst side effect is probably death lol. Birth control is pretty famous for its side effect of blood clots.

Is it? Pretty sure that only applies to people with certain medical conditions or those that are on other medications, though. Besides, a doctor will usually tell you if it's alright to take them.

 

I've heard of blood clots being a thing but only in those situations. And I didn't think it was common or anything. Maybe I'm wrong.

[Syaoransbear]

Is it? Pretty sure that only applies to people with certain medical conditions or those that are on other medications, though. Besides, a doctor will usually tell you if it's alright to take them.

 

I've heard of blood clots being a thing but only in those situations. And I didn't think it was common or anything. Maybe I'm wrong.

I wouldn't say it's common, just well known. They advise against them if you have a condition already, but even if you don't they still increase the chances of blood clots.

Edited January 14, 2014 by Syaoransbear

[TikindiDragon]

I wouldn't say it's common, just well known. They advise against them if you have a condition already, but even if you don't they still increase the chances of blood clots.

There's a lower risk on the progesterone-only-pill than there is on the combined pill.

[whitebaron]

So basically what you're saying is that, because you have never experienced something that you will never ever be able to experience and that one other person you know hasn't experienced it, it's a small, negligible issue that probably doesn't exist. And I'm pretty sure Canada and the US are up there.

Oh, come on please. Stop that "We are tiny little lambs and need to be protected" or "We have very different mindsets, attitudes" - crap. It's the mindset like this that stabilizes these ideas you say are so common in the USA. It very obviously is NOT the same over here.

 

That aside, I did not say it's small or negligible. You made that up entirely yourself. And I do NOT like if someone puts words into my mouth, especially if they make it feel like I am the evil enemy. (which I am not.)

 

 

@the pill: my wife is allowed to take only 2 out of like 20 that can be prescribed here, due to medical issues. She's pretty healthy, but due to acne (yes, at 33 still) and low blood pressure, the doctor really has little choices left.

Edited January 14, 2014 by whitebaron

[Fuzzbucket]

First off, @kage+fuzz: maybe you should move out of whatever backwater slum you are living in and move to a moremodern country.

i showed thst message to my wife earlier, and she said she has NEVER experienced stuff like this before she started working. At work its tough,though, women in IT are not really the norm so many people dont know how to handle it.

 

As for teaching kids your values: it actually takes time, that most parents do not tske themselves. I know the us drill, its how my half-niece in law is raised. 6 weeks maternity leave, then off to the crib. Then kindergarten, then preschool,then school. No wonder kids like that learn nothing about life or their parents values. At 18 months of age, I have spent more time with our daughter, than both parents of my niece have spent with her in her 5 years together. And it shows.

 

@the pill: I suggest reading up on side effects a little more. While its mostly uncomplicated, there are even life-threatening side effects (especially in combination with various other conditions you might not even be aware of)

I live in Canada and the UK - both well civilised, thank you, I am 69 years old, and I have travelled all over the world. Much of what happens in terms of gender "education" is subliminal. Look at ads. Cars sold with half naked woman draped over them. Oven cleaner sold with woman looking HAPPY about using the stuff. Look at the provisions for parental leave - only the Scandinavian countries are really equal there. And as you admit - when your wife started work, she began to see some of it. My own daughter had to get school rules changed so that she was allowed to take shop rather than cookery. That wasn't so important - what WAS was that no-one had ever thought to suggest it before - in the 1980s. That's how ingrained it was. Still is in many schools, even given so-called equality legislation. "It's so hard to timetable, don't worry your pretty little head about that." And people are still surprised to hear that woman change fuses, service their cars and the rest. You get night school classes called "auto mechanics for girls" which only teach you to change a tyre and check oil levels. Sure, you can go to a real mechanics class - and the teachers will ask you whether you shouldn't be down the hall in the girls class. Not long ago I was told I reverse my car well "for a woman". Don't tell me you have never seen this in action. It's all over. On TV. In comedy turns. You also see "poor men" being incapable of changing a baby. Stereotypes are rampant.

 

Read The Feminine Mystique; this stuff isn't all over - indeed, in the US they are sliding back that way. I know women all over the world who "expect" to be treated as lesser beings - the glass ceiling at work, the lower pay for the same work. the assumption that the woman in the room gets the coffee for the men - including those in lower level jobs. It's everywhere.

 

Starting to use terms like "backwater slum" in your post suggests you are beginning to run out of real information.

 

The pill. Yes indeed. My deafness is down to that. And as I have said several times - I used to work in public health. I am well aware of the risks. It's almost safer to get pregnant and have an abortion. Why shouldn't men have the same sort of risks in their lives ? Because that's something WOMEN get to do for them.

 

And yes, a lot of parents don't teach their children the values others of us would like to see. And your point there is ? I don't know what you are getting at there - but it is up to BOTH parents - and very many fathers don't take the time.

[whitebaron]

*igotbustedandsnippeditout*

 

And yes, a lot of parents don't teach their children the values others of us would like to see. And your point there is ? I don't know what you are getting at there - but it is up to BOTH parents - and very many fathers don't take the time.

That was in reply to the argument of kagesora, that others teach your kids more than you can ever do - that society at large ingrains them more than we do. And that is just not true. If you care, your kids are NOT taught by TV and kindergarten. Yes, you can do it that way... see what it brings us...

[Hisa]

@the pill: my wife is allowed to take only 2 out of like 20 that can be prescribed here, due to medical issues. She's pretty healthy, but due to acne (yes, at 33 still) and low blood pressure, the doctor really has little choices left.

I used to have medicication for acne when I was hum, I think 16, and if I remember correctly my blood pressure is more low than normal but else am usually healthy, no allergies either o-o

[whitebaron]

I used to have medicication for acne when I was hum, I think 16, and if I remember correctly my blood pressure is more low than normal but else am usually healthy, no allergies either o-o

last tangent on this: since most pills heavily work the hormones, it can make-preexisting acne a lot worse. Also, if you take heavy acne stuff like Isotretinoin, you are even required to take the pill, but most options there will be barred due to side effects.

 

There are, on the other hand, pills that make the skin go dry and that help with acne - so it could be a win/win there as well, unless, well, you have dry skin.

 

getting the proper pill described is something very hard to figure out (or you get lucky on first try, who knows) and I dread the days...

 

[Hisa]

last tangent on this: since most pills heavily work the hormones, it can make-preexisting acne a lot worse. Also, if you take heavy acne stuff like Isotretinoin, you are even required to take the pill, but most options there will be barred due to side effects.

 

There are, on the other hand, pills that make the skin go dry and that help with acne - so it could be a win/win there as well, unless, well, you have dry skin.

 

getting the proper pill described is something very hard to figure out (or you get lucky on first try, who knows) and I dread the days...

well, I haven't had acne for about hum, I think 3 years or so now, I can't remember what medicine I had but it was a half red half yellow pill and made me feel sick always after taking it and yeah back then they did ask if birth control pill would be option but back then my mom said no to it since I was underage and I bet she was thinking i'd b running around to have sex then