Posted January 28, 2014 I don't have time to watch that ATM. But I think there's a couple earlier posts that you might want to look for discussing the general topic. Utilizing the term murder isn't going to help the pro-life movement one bit, it will just make people resent them Then again, my stance on killing babies is a bit awkward... Share this post Link to post
Posted January 28, 2014 I don't have time to watch that ATM. But I think there's a couple earlier posts that you might want to look for discussing the general topic. Utilizing the term murder isn't going to help the pro-life movement one bit, it will just make people resent them Then again, my stance on killing babies is a bit awkward... I've discussed the general topic plenty, and I think everyone knows my position here. Will using the word murder make people happy with pro-lifers? Nope, not one bit. But I truly believe that's what it is, so I'll call it that. Anyways, I shared the link so that you guys could see what's being passed around by us radical pro-lifers lately, and display the appropriate rage in response. FYI, that documentary was endorsed by a Fox News anchor on his Facebook fan page, if you're looking for another reason to hate Fox. Share this post Link to post
Posted January 28, 2014 Oh I know, there's just a few bigger posts that are much more heartfelt and emotional than the rage-y ones that you likely haven't seen (Oh, and I'm kind of pro-life, but I won't explain that because I don't want murdered like last time I spoke about something like that) Share this post Link to post
Posted January 28, 2014 (edited) I've discussed the general topic plenty, and I think everyone knows my position here. Will using the word murder make people happy with pro-lifers? Nope, not one bit. But I truly believe that's what it is, so I'll call it that. Anyways, I shared the link so that you guys could see what's being passed around by us radical pro-lifers lately, and display the appropriate rage in response. FYI, that documentary was endorsed by a Fox News anchor on his Facebook fan page, if you're looking for another reason to hate Fox. Murder in late term? Perhaps. Okay probably. But in early term when there's no guarantee a fetus will become a "baby", no. And late terms are rare and are only acceptable if the woman's life is at risk. I'm not entirely sure what your point was with that link. Because I may just be repeating myself over and over again Edited January 28, 2014 by GhostChilli Share this post Link to post
Posted January 28, 2014 One thing I continuously fail to understand: If it's so likely early on that it won't become a baby, why not just let it not become one? Share this post Link to post
Posted January 28, 2014 One thing I continuously fail to understand: If it's so likely early on that it won't become a baby, why not just let it not become one? I second this. A question I never get real answers from. I've only gotten, "She should live with the punishment, don't have sex ect." Share this post Link to post
Posted January 28, 2014 Murder in late term? Perhaps. Okay probably. But in early term when there's no guarantee a fetus will become a "baby", no. And late terms are rare and are only acceptable if the woman's life is at risk. I'm not entirely sure what your point was with that link. Because I may just be repeating myself over and over again I'm curious as to why you think late-term abortions are wrong? I'm assuming you mean they're morally wrong by saying they could be considered murder, so I'm just curious as to why you think that. My point was for people to watch the documentary and react to it, whether in agreement or in indignant rage. I believe it's a true message that needs to be heard, but if you want to be on top of what garbage (from a pro-choice perspective) is being spread around in the pro-life community, there's your breaking news. Share this post Link to post
Posted January 28, 2014 I'm curious as to why you think late-term abortions are wrong? I'm assuming you mean they're morally wrong by saying they could be considered murder, so I'm just curious as to why you think that. My point was for people to watch the documentary and react to it, whether in agreement or in indignant rage. I believe it's a true message that needs to be heard, but if you want to be on top of what garbage (from a pro-choice perspective) is being spread around in the pro-life community, there's your breaking news. Because in late term, it can survive out of the womb and will not become anything else. My feelings are on the matter at hand. But I'll always be pro-choice. And the documentary is rather ridiculous. Especially when a lot of the arguments and "garbage" spread by pro-lifers *cough* have been debunked. The only arguments I've seen is religion, morals, and poor science. Share this post Link to post
Posted January 28, 2014 I second this. A question I never get real answers from. I've only gotten, "She should live with the punishment, don't have sex ect." Oh, I think you misunderstood. Bad wording on my part mostly likely :/ What I mean is: Why is an abortion necessary? If it's not going to become a baby, why does it matter? if the odds are as high as they've been implied to me to be, abortions shouldn't even be necessary. And if they aren't, then the whole "it might not become a baby" argument seems null, imeeo Share this post Link to post
Posted January 28, 2014 Because in late term, it can survive out of the womb and will not become anything else. My feelings are on the matter at hand. But I'll always be pro-choice. And the documentary is rather ridiculous. Especially when a lot of the arguments and "garbage" spread by pro-lifers *cough* have been debunked. The only arguments I've seen is religion, morals, and poor science. Why does being able to live outside the womb make it wrong to kill it? Is there an arbitrary line before which it's alright to kill it and after which it's not? A day/week/month perhaps? How does one determine this? Why is it ever wrong to kill a child in the womb? Did you watch the entire thing? Not saying watching the whole thing would change your mind, just curious. Share this post Link to post
Posted January 28, 2014 (edited) Oh, I think you misunderstood. Bad wording on my part mostly likely :/ What I mean is: Why is an abortion necessary? If it's not going to become a baby, why does it matter? if the odds are as high as they've been implied to me to be, abortions shouldn't even be necessary. And if they aren't, then the whole "it might not become a baby" argument seems null, imeeo Hell if I could control my body to where it stops the fetus from forming, then no, they wouldn't be necessary. But sadly, they are. Explain to me how the argument seems null? The point was is that an early zygote, fetus, is not a human/baby straight off the bat, so it's not "murdering poor innocent behbiez" Why does being able to live outside the womb make it wrong to kill it? Is there an arbitrary line before which it's alright to kill it and after which it's not? A day/week/month perhaps? How does one determine this? Why is it ever wrong to kill a child in the womb? To me, when it's so far into development, it makes me feel a bit squeamish when it's so close to being a baby. But that's just me. Am I against it? No, because it's none of my business. I didn't mean to really agree with murder part. I was unsure, and I was still taking a look at the video. So is it wrong? I don't know. Edited January 28, 2014 by GhostChilli Share this post Link to post
Posted January 28, 2014 Because when it can live outside the womb it deserves human rights because it is a person that is not completely dependent upon someone else. Share this post Link to post
Posted January 28, 2014 Babies Are Murdered Here, is the new controversial pro-life documentary that examines the truth about abortion and the single biggest failure of the pro-life movement, not calling abortion what it really is...Murder. When has the pro-life movement ever not called abortion murder? Was this documentary filmed in an alternate dimension!? Share this post Link to post
Posted January 28, 2014 I agree^^ I mean, honestly, I don't think I've ever talked to a "pro-life" person who hasn't said the word murder at least like six times x3 Share this post Link to post
Posted January 28, 2014 Because when it can live outside the womb it deserves human rights because it is a person that is not completely dependent upon someone else. Where do these "human rights" come from exactly? When has the pro-life movement ever not called abortion murder? Was this documentary filmed in an alternate dimension!? You've clearly never run into Abby Johnson (famous pro-life advocate who bans people from her Facebook page for calling abortion murder), or most of the mainstream pro-life movement. The majority of people who attend March for Life and whatnot refuse to call abortion murder. The majority of people, even who go to clinics and stand outside, don't use the word "murder," don't quote the Bible, and offer simply pragmatic, medical, and natural law arguments. This documentary is taking a stance in opposition to those sorts of "pro-lifers." Share this post Link to post
Posted January 28, 2014 I see the word murder in like, 90% of pro-life materials. Share this post Link to post
Posted January 28, 2014 I see the word murder in like, 90% of pro-life materials. The vocal minority. Part of the documentary includes a sampling of interviews at last year's March for Life, and shows how few pro-life people are willing to call abortion murder, or to call women who choose abortion murderers. It's not the majority sentiment. Share this post Link to post
Posted January 28, 2014 I see the word murder in like, 90% of pro-life materials. I'd like to point out that abortions are not even designed to kill a fetus. They are designed to terminate a pregnancy. Not the same thing. Share this post Link to post
Posted January 28, 2014 I'd like to point out that abortions are not even designed to kill a fetus. They are designed to terminate a pregnancy. Not the same thing. Now that's just simple wordplay. You terminate a pregnancy by killing a fetus. Share this post Link to post
Posted January 28, 2014 Now that's just simple wordplay. You terminate a pregnancy by killing a fetus. Incorrect. The fetus dies as a result because it cannot survive on its own. Abortions are designed to remove a fetus. Share this post Link to post
Posted January 28, 2014 Incorrect. The fetus dies as a result because it cannot survive on its own. Abortions are designed to remove a fetus. Abortions kill a fetus and then remove it from the womb. Share this post Link to post
Posted January 28, 2014 (edited) You've clearly never run into Abby Johnson (famous pro-life advocate who bans people from her Facebook page for calling abortion murder), or most of the mainstream pro-life movement. The majority of people who attend March for Life and whatnot refuse to call abortion murder. The majority of people, even who go to clinics and stand outside, don't use the word "murder," don't quote the Bible, and offer simply pragmatic, medical, and natural law arguments. This documentary is taking a stance in opposition to those sorts of "pro-lifers." Well, no, I haven't run into Abby. I'll admit I don't spend a lot of time sticking my nose into the abortion debate. There's nothing morally right about abortion. In all cases, everything possible should be done to prevent an abortion from occurring. Birth control should be used, the mother should have access to medical care to ensure that both she and the fetus are healthy, and those who want to become parents should plan accordingly. But if someone needs or wants an abortion, she should have access to a safe procedure performed by qualified doctors in a sterile environment. There are plenty of legal ways a woman can attempt to have an abortion. She can drink too much. She throw herself down a flight of stairs, if she's truly desperate. I'm sure there are other ways as well, but the uniting factor is no doubt that no matter what she does, if it's not an abortion performed by medical professionals or the morning after pill, it's just as dangerous to her health as it is to her unborn child. There are many other reasons to be pro-choice but for me the health and safety of the mother is the biggest. I'm curious, why do you place "pro-lifers" in quotes? You and the people you're referring to are fighting for the same thing. You're on the same side. Incorrect. The fetus dies as a result because it cannot survive on its own. Abortions are designed to remove a fetus.Abortions kill a fetus and then remove it from the womb. I'm pretty sure philpot is right about this. Edited January 28, 2014 by Likewise Share this post Link to post
Posted January 28, 2014 There are plenty of legal ways a woman can attempt to have an abortion. She can drink too much. She throw herself down a flight of stairs, if she's truly desperate. I'm sure there are other ways as well, but the uniting factor is no doubt that no matter what she does, if it's not an abortion performed by medical professionals or the morning after pill, it's just as dangerous to her health as it is to her unborn child. There are many other reasons to be pro-choice but for me the health and safety of the mother is the biggest. And none of those things would be morally okay, because I believe it's always sinful to intend to kill a child, in the womb or otherwise. I'm curious, why do you place "pro-lifers" in quotes? You and the people you're referring to are fighting for the same thing. You're on the same side. I put it in quotes because there is a distinct difference between people who are only personally opposed to abortion and people who consistently support its abolition, just like there was a difference between certain enlightenment thinkers who were morally opposed to slavery and the abolitionists who fought to eradicate it. Share this post Link to post
Posted January 28, 2014 And none of those things would be morally okay, because I believe it's always sinful to intend to kill a child, in the womb or otherwise. I put it in quotes because there is a distinct difference between people who are only personally opposed to abortion and people who consistently support its abolition, just like there was a difference between certain enlightenment thinkers who were morally opposed to slavery and the abolitionists who fought to eradicate it. And that is your opinion and you are entitled to it. But as soon as you start talking about other people's rights, we have a problem. Morality is hypocrisy in a Sunday suit and you have no right to inject your opinions about right and wrong on other people. Let me redefine my former statement by adding MOST abortions are designed to remove the fetus and it dies as a result. That is because most abortions occur within an early time period and a different method is used vs the later times. Share this post Link to post
Posted January 28, 2014 (edited) There are plenty of legal ways a woman can attempt to have an abortion. She can drink too much. She throw herself down a flight of stairs, if she's truly desperate. I'm sure there are other ways as well, but the uniting factor is no doubt that no matter what she does, if it's not an abortion performed by medical professionals or the morning after pill, it's just as dangerous to her health as it is to her unborn child. There are many other reasons to be pro-choice but for me the health and safety of the mother is the biggest. Not an unborn child. It's a/an fetus/embryo/zygote :3 Edited January 28, 2014 by PieMaster Share this post Link to post
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