Abortion

[whitebaron]

there are big differences between long term, stable and married - they describe three entirely different things, that only sometime coincide.

 

I'm not sure on US divorces, but its a lot more likely to get divorced than to stay married for a rather long time in those countries where i know the statistics...

 

That aside: long term, to me, is more than 5, maybe even more than 10 years. so most young people will never fall into that category for me. And I tend to believe that as you grow up, you value quality over quantity.

[HeatherMarie]

ACtually, it is my belief that it is in the best interest for women to know and do "that stuff". As has been pointed out before - it's your bodies, your decisions, your responsibilities.

You do understand the quote was referring to MALE contraception, correct? So actually, in TRUTH, it's a MALE's body and responsibility. If a MALE wants to have sex, then the MALE should know and do "that stuff". Exactly the same as a female should if a female wants to have sex.

 

(A VERY simplified example: If a man wants to have sex, he better have a condom with him. It is not a female's job to carry around male protection.)

 

I don't understand how "your bodies, your decisions, your responsiblities" ONLY count if the person is female. A female can't have sex alone, yunno. The *male* is 50% of sex, simply by the nature of what sex means (I am of course only speaking for male/female sex). So why is the male not responsible at all for sexual protection?

 

THAT is pure sexism. Plain and simple.

Edited January 11, 2014 by Marie19R

[Fuzzbucket]

there are big differences between long term, stable and married - they describe three entirely different things, that only sometime coincide.

 

I'm not sure on US divorces, but its a lot more likely to get divorced than to stay married for a rather long time in those countries where i know the statistics...

 

That aside: long term, to me, is more than 5, maybe even more than 10 years. so most young people will never fall into that category for me. And I tend to believe that as you grow up, you value quality over quantity.

Percentage of couples living together for more than five years who eventually marry as of 1995: 70%

Percentage of married people who reach anniversaries:

5th: 82%

10th: 65%

15th: 52%

25th: 33%

35th: 20%

50th: 5%

 

US, again.

 

I think it is a bit sad to assume that married people aren't committed.... I (Canadian and British) am heading for my 49th anniversary, and many of my friends in both countries have also been married for very many years. My daughters have been married for 20 years. I have a lot of friends in their 20s who got married at 18-20 and are still married.

 

You are getting cynical here.

[Brite]

 

US, again.

 

I think it is a bit sad to assume that married people aren't committed.... I (Canadian and British) am heading for my 49th anniversary, and many of my friends in both countries have also been married for very many years. My daughters have been married for 20 years. I have a lot of friends in their 20s who got married at 18-20 and are still married.

 

You are getting cynical here.

Feels like mostly due to young couples jumping into relationships when they haven't even matured themselves. I know of 5 (ex) couples that divorced after being at their throats for years. When asked why they got married, the "best" reason they could come up with was "Um..I don't know, he/she was so hot/sexy/cute at the time.."

 

And worse is that they have children and bring them into it. There was a girl at my old job that became pregnant and her "fiancé" freaked out and took off, only to reappear later but was flakey and kept making up stories. She decided to have an abortion and leave him. Smart.girl.

[KageSora]

(A VERY simplified example: If a man wants to have sex, he better have a condom with him. It is not a female's job to carry around male protection.)

I agree--if he wants to have sex, he should have some kind of protection (unless you're trying for a baby). Personally, I apply that to same-sex relationships as well.

 

Personally, I think both parties should have protection--and if you're female, rely on something other than a condom (male or female). Because if the male brings a condom, well, you can't very well use two! You'll want a secondary type of protection. The more types (provided they're compatible, of course) you have, the better the chances of avoiding pregnancy.

 

But at the very least know what kind of condom best fits you(r partner) and carry that with you if you have any intention of having sex, so that you'll have at least one form of protection against pregnancy (and STDs/STIs, ideally).

[Kestra15]

I still believe that it would be easier to disarm a weapon, then test it against a bullet-proof vest. If there was an effective male oral contraceptive pill I would be glad to take it for my own peace of mind as much as anything else.

[Fuzzbucket]

I still believe that it would be easier to disarm a weapon, then test it against a bullet-proof vest. If there was an effective male oral contraceptive pill I would be glad to take it for my own peace of mind as much as anything else.

VERY good point ! But so many men don't want their stuff messed with....

[HeatherMarie]

Awesome comparison, Kestra!

[Bex]

http://www.newmalecontraception.org/vasalgel/

[whitebaron]

@marie: well, males can "only" get an std. females can get various kinds of pregnancies on top of that. If i were a woman, I'd never trust male protective measures to keep me safe.

[Fuzzbucket]

@marie: well, males can "only" get an std. females can get various kinds of pregnancies on top of that. If i were a woman, I'd never trust male protective measures to keep me safe.

Says a lot about men, that. If there were a male contraceptive as reliable as the pill....

 

Er, wait - what's a various kind of pregnancy ?

Edited January 12, 2014 by fuzzbucket

[Bex]

Says a lot about men, that. If there were a male contraceptive as reliable as the pill....

 

Er, wait - what's a various kind of pregnancy ?

I took it to mean that not all pregnancies are the healthy kind. Ectopic pregnancies come to mind, which have to be aborted or the woman will most likely die.

 

Unless you don't believe abortion should be legal, in which case the mother dying is just God's will.

[Brite]

I'd rather not hear "God's will" when it comes to abortion..

[Fuzzbucket]

I'd rather not hear "God's will" when it comes to abortion..

I'd rather not hear God's will about anything. Ain't no such thing, in my book.

[sparkle10184]

I never take "God's will" as a valid point.

[Brite]

Good point. To most things to me at least. Most things..

[Bex]

I hope you guys realized I was being sarcastic... >>;

[sparkle10184]

I did^^ I was just agreeing with you.

[HeatherMarie]

@marie: well, males can "only" get an std. females can get various kinds of pregnancies on top of that. If i were a woman, I'd never trust male protective measures to keep me safe.

That has nothing to do with the point I was making. You are right, as a female I would *never* have sex while relying completely on the other person to make it safe.

 

However, my point was that *men* should be just as *responsible* as women. If I'm going to be responsible enough to be on the pill, the man should also be responsible enough to have a condom (and know how to put it on).

 

If a male wants to have sex with a female, I think it would benefit them to *not* take the attitude of "well *I* don't have as much at stake". That attitude will end with the female walking away.

[Syaoransbear]

Many of the males I know use a 'birth control' called "giving the woman a fake name" so she can't track them down if she gets pregnant. It's awful.

[whitebaron]

If a male wants to have sex with a female, I think it would benefit them to *not* take the attitude of "well *I* don't have as much at stake". That attitude will end with the female walking away.

Except, that's not true. Most of the women WILL have sex with you when only one form of contraceptives is used, and also quite a lot will even without.

 

Also - walking away? In some male perspectives, the woman will do that anyway. Or he'll bail soon as new targets become available. Yes, there are stable and reliable relationships, but as fuzz said: there's a lot of cynicism to me as i can see exactly what happens all around those havens of peace - utter chaos with switching partners at least yearly. Many people consider a year to be a long relationship. Sorry, but at that time you haven't even begun.

 

@Syaoran: Hi, my name is John D. :-)

Edited January 13, 2014 by whitebaron

[Fuzzbucket]

Except, that's not true. Most of the women WILL have sex with you when only one form of contraceptives is used, and also quite a lot will even without.

 

Also - walking away? In some male perspectives, the woman will do that anyway. Or he'll bail soon as new targets become available. Yes, there are stable and reliable relationships, but as fuzz said: there's a lot of cynicism to me as i can see exactly what happens all around those havens of peace - utter chaos with switching partners at least yearly. Many people consider a year to be a long relationship. Sorry, but at that time you haven't even begun.

 

@Syaoran: Hi, my name is John D. :-)

I am surprised you say that of women, but almost all the men I have known would really LIKE not to "have to" use anything and try to pressure you into "nothing in the way of my pleasure" sex. (this even goes back to the days when basically condoms were all you could get and the pill was very new.)

 

I KNOW very few women who would even consider unprotected sex (especially for fear of genital herpes, believe it or not - that is nasty ! HV is seen as unlikely, in such circles.) I do watch Jeremy Kyle, though - I know there are a lot of people who are that stupid. But when that is given as a reason for having got pregnant at 16 or something, and they are asked about it, it's usually either being blind drunk, or "well, he don't like rubbers, so.."

[whitebaron]

If a woman grants a mans wish, whose fault is it?

 

If I grant my daughter to play soccer inside, there will be broken things. Is it her fault or mine?

 

IF you know what will/can happen, and you allow it anyway - your fault. And many women would rather be with a man that does not fulfill all their wishes instead of being alone. Fear of being alone is very present these days, it seems.

 

Anecdote: I have a friend, she's really pretty, works at university, has 2 degrees and has had a longtime boyfriend for fear of being alone. They did not get along very well, but always she sticked with him. When he quit her, it was devastating - She felt like she'd have no chance in her life to EVER find a man again. (When suitors would line up almost immediately after he dumped her - or even before that, but she just would not see it)

 

I know at least 5 other woman with similar cases within our friends alone.

[Fuzzbucket]

If a man pressures a woman "If you loved me you would", it is NOT entirely down to her. (It is also emotional abuse, mind !)

 

If your daughter is careful, she won't break things; if she does it is BOTH your faults. It's the concept of "contributory negligence". If a car shoots out in front of you and you brake hard but failed to stop because your tyres were almost bald, you can be held partly responsible for the ensuing accident.

[Syaoransbear]

If a woman grants a mans wish, whose fault is it?

 

If I grant my daughter to play soccer inside, there will be broken things. Is it her fault or mine?

A better analogy would be who is at fault if a dog craps on the carpet: the dog, or the owner who trained it to do that?

 

From the moment women are born they are raised to seek male approval for validation. They are told their entire self worth depends on it. You even give an example with your friend(although you interpret it as a fear of being alone. If it was, she'd be rebounding in a second without giving a single thought to her ex): physically attractive, two degrees, and her entire self esteem fell apart when her long term spouse rejected her. She failed at gaining his approval. Their hostile relationship is probably evidence that she was always aware of his disapproval which made her want to stay to try and fix it. Now she feels like she's a failure because women are still taught that above all else, success is gaining male approval. It doesn't matter to her if there are other males interested in her, because women are taught they need the approval of ALL males. But one has denied her. One that she tried so, so hard to get, and she still wasn't good enough.

 

And this is just the societies where women are supposed to be equal to men(which is still a work in progress, frankly). For everywhere else where women are very obviously considered inferior, rejecting a man can mean rape, violence, or both.

Edited January 13, 2014 by Syaoransbear