Abortion

[Banuk]

I betcha if men could get pregnant this whole issue would be resolved in about five minutes.

[Momo]

I betcha if men could get pregnant this whole issue would be resolved in about five minutes.

Yeah, I.. really cannot add anything more to this. Just. I agree. It definitely would. A very agitating truth, but truth all the same.

[TikindiDragon]

This X a million. There are a significant number of women (me included) who would jump at he chance to be sterilised if it were more available and affordable. Reduce the cost, reduce the barriers that currently prevent women from easily accessing the procedure, reduce the risk for doctors who perform it, and you'll see a dent put in the number of women having abortions.

I've been asking for six years every single time I've seen my GP to have my blood pressure checked. The answer has been no every time. Not because the GP is unwilling to refer me (he actually understands that autism + gender issues = really never wanting kids) but because the NHS has a blanket ban on female sterelisation unless the woman is over 35 and has at least one child.

 

So pretty much the only way I'm getting sterelised is if I fully transition and have a hysterectomy.

[catstaff]

there are plenty of ways to prevent pregnancy and if they dont work then clearly the CHILD belongs here if you dont want a kid and dont wanna get pregnant there are reversable procedures that you can go have incase you change your mine or if you never want one and dont wanna ever risk it then get fixed plain and simple and btw the "its my body" crap is just that crap cuz its that babys body youre breaking and burning and killing and it should have the same right you want to have

Reversable procedures? What might those be? Where are they available? What is the failure rate for normal usage? And what do they cost? I mean, I've been uninsured for the last several years... not that being insured necessarily means anything either. Half the coverages I've had in the past didn't cover birth control anyway. (Funny how pretty much all of them cover Viagra though, but that's a whole 'nother rant!) At this point in time, I can barely afford OTC types of birth control, forget about paying out-of-pocket for doctor visits and/or elective surgery. (Oh, and I'm married; so abstinence isn't exactly a viable option.) I certainly can't afford a pregnancy, especially since it would be a high-risk pregnancy given my age and medical issues and end with a c-section due to those medical issues that will not allow me to deliver vaginally.

 

I'm interested in knowing these things because last I checked, the chances of successfully reversing a tubal ligation were next to nothing. For that matter, reversing a vasectomy isn't 100% successful either.

 

Furthermore, it IS my body, and an embryo or fetus is NOT a living, breathing child. Big difference there.

 

 

[BlitzDrake]

-high five- oh btw as an after thought if i were to say take a baby out of a mothers arms and pull off its limbs, burn it with acid, stab it in the head and suck its brains out etc (things people apparently find it acceptable to do to the unborn) i would probably recieve life in prison or at least some very loooong sentence. honestly any doctor who preforms the abortion procedure should lose their medical license and be barred from ever practicing any medicine again and any person who has or even tries to have one should have serious legal reprecussions as well. also no there is a difference between a natural miscarrage and a conscious choice to snuff out a babys life miscarrages cant be helped murder can.

Mmmmm acid. Yeah so Blighty is at 6 hours of sleep, right now. Yeah well have things like this. So it won't be tortured or dipped in lovely acid and melted. Darn, I eat eggs for breakfast...mmmm eggs. Miscarriages...like a falcon punch to the stomach? I know people can ask for those that induce a miscarriage, that's pretty preventable. Ugh, You people are NOT Pro life. You are Proforce a birth. You dont care about the woman who has to deal with life and can live outside of a womb. you dont give a small rodents derriere about what happens to THEIR LIFE.Are you going to make coat hangers and vacuums illegal?

 

 

By Flooding it means you know, breeding more when we cant have abortions because people cant have them.

 

I hi-five Dereanged and Kagesora

Edited July 3, 2013 by BlightWyvern

[Rosedamai]

people can give birth at home ya know that saves a lot of money right there and im sure that most people can find the help (from family or w/e) to be able to pay for the medical bills or hay theres this thing called insurence that most people have that pays a good portion of the bills.

Lol people here assuming that home births are a walk in the park

Without anyone to help you, such as a midwife, you can die.

Sorry, I'd rather abort than die.

How selfish of me.

Edited July 3, 2013 by ylangylang

[BlitzDrake]

there are plenty of ways to prevent pregnancy and if they dont work then clearly the CHILD belongs here if you dont want a kid and dont wanna get pregnant there are reversable procedures that you can go have incase you change your mine or if you never want one and dont wanna ever risk it then get fixed plain and simple and btw the "its my body" crap is just that crap cuz its that babys body youre breaking and burning and killing and it should have the same right you want to have

Yeah and it's not 100% sweetie. Hate to bring that reality to you. Yeah, because rape victims have to carry a child, by a woman who was attacked in the worst way possible was destined to carry the "cyell clomps". Yeah, a reversible procedure to make sure you dont have the child? Like an abortion? You know what. Screw the baby's body. It can't think for itself, it's not able to function without feeding off the woman. Yeah, I didn't expect to show this much apathy or sadism over this but right now I'm in no mood to sugar coat what I have to say. Yeah, it IS THEIR FREAKING BODY does it belong to a clump of crap that can't do anything? Yeah, ok, so they can BBQ, tenderize, and euthanize it as they deem fit. Yeah, but it doesn't have those rights. Are we going to give them a mic and and ultrasound so we can be like "ERMEGERD" *listening to it pulsing in the woman* ITS SAYING ITS GOING TO BE A NURSE.

If they had the same rights that we have and they wanted an abortion...WHOA PARADOX.

Can you think of any GOOD reasons why abortion is bad? Like "benefits the rape victim because she is quieter or her health is BRILLIANT NOW" OR "This lockiophobic was forced to have a kid, bet her emotional state is WONDERFUL right now. Look, she's scarred for life but hey, she has a niiiiiiiiiiice complexion now"

Yeah well as stated, MOST women that get abortions got pregnant through rape, failed BC, etc, Do they want the rapist to get custody? what kind of CRAP is that.

So if this is better for you, why not these pregnant people kill themselves. Happy? Now you can't be mad at them because they killed a "PREICOUS CLOMP UF CYELLS" because they killed themselves too.

Edited July 3, 2013 by BlightWyvern

[Alpha1]

I betcha if men could get pregnant this whole issue would be resolved in about five minutes.

Men benefit from it. It's not just women.

 

http://www.guttmacher.org/media/nr/2013/06/24/

 

1. Two-thirds of unintended pregnancies are mistimed

2. About one-third of the births are unwanted

3. Over one in ten of single fathers had no idea about the pregnancies until after the kid was born.

 

 

Education trumps gender in predicting support for abortion.

 

"Over the past three decades, men and women have consistently held similar views about the extent to which abortion should be legal."

[Rosedamai]

I popped a zit and killed some cells too. Am I a murderer now?

[Obscure_Trash]

I betcha if men could get pregnant this whole issue would be resolved in about five minutes.

(I know this isn't what you meant, but I just have to mention the fact that some men can get pregnant. Of course, there's a lot of prejudice and discrimination against transfolk, too, so it doesn't really change the whole how-pregnancy-is-treated-situation.)

[Banuk]

(I know this isn't what you meant, but I just have to mention the fact that some men can get pregnant. Of course, there's a lot of prejudice and discrimination against transfolk, too, so it doesn't really change the whole how-pregnancy-is-treated-situation.)

Yeah, I should have known better than to say that.

 

Can't say anything regarding "men" or "women" any more without being suddenly transphobic, even if you're not.

[BlitzDrake]

I popped a zit and killed some cells too. Am I a murderer now?

>:C YOU KEELED A THING OF CYELLS HOW CAN YOU LIVE WITH URSELF!!!!!!

 

Uh...I eat eggs.....veal....caviar...and drink water...and milk...and I breath..unless someone stabs me because they don't like my views.

[Rosedamai]

Uh...I eat eggs.....veal....caviar...and drink water...and milk...and I breath..

You murderer.

Edited July 3, 2013 by ylangylang

[Syaoransbear]

there are plenty of ways to prevent pregnancy and if they dont work then clearly the CHILD belongs here if you dont want a kid and dont wanna get pregnant there are reversable procedures that you can go have incase you change your mine or if you never want one and dont wanna ever risk it then get fixed plain and simple and btw the "its my body" crap is just that crap cuz its that babys body youre breaking and burning and killing and it should have the same right you want to have

No, it shouldn't. No one in the world has the right to use another person's body without their permission, even if they were going to die. You cannot hook your body up to another person's body and suckle off their nutrients. You can't even forcibly take blood from someone to save your life, and that's just a pin prick of an inconvenience for people. Not 9 months of pregnancy, labor, and then the PERMANENT physical changes to the woman's body during and after pregnancy.

 

You can't even use the body of the dead without their permission, and you are saying that it's okay to use a woman's body without her permission just because she's pregnant? No, that's not okay.

 

This is not even an independent person we are talking about. It's a fetus(or in your words, a baby, I do not feel any more sympathy by using the word baby) that has no friends, family, and in all likelihood can be aborted by the body naturally or even turn into a tumor. Is it really killing it if it couldn't survive outside of the womb anyway? We take people off of life support all the time even though there are plenty of cases where people, who were deemed lost causes, came out of their comas even though their family was advised to take them off life support.

 

The body aborts a fetus when conditions inside the mother's body are unfit to support a child. Doctors abort fetuses when conditions outside the mother's body, such as mental state, financial state, living conditions, etc, are unfit to support a child. I do not understand how one is murder and the other is not.

Edited July 3, 2013 by Syaoransbear

[Zovesta]

there is NEVER an excuse to abort. if you're too young or too stupid or too selfish or w/e to raise a child there are soo many people who would be glad to to adopt the CHILD and yes it is a child no matter what science/medicine w/e labels it otherwise that you're throwing away. even in a situation of drunkenness or rape or any situation of that sort the baby deserves to get to live its life even if it cant live it with the biological "family" a person can take 9 months out of their life to do the right thing rather than depriving an innocent child of the many years it should have.

LOL WHAT. I haven't even read the rest of the thread but holy crap.

 

Have you ever been to an orphanage? Have you ever met a child born into a family who didn't want them? Do you know the statistics of sexual abuse in adopted children? Or abuse period? There are a MILLION excuses to abort and not "just let someone else take them". Besides, what if the woman has medical issues and cannot safely give birth?

 

A child who has never even had a chance to experience life is never more important than a woman who is still living it.

 

edit for grammatical error

Edited July 3, 2013 by Zovesta

[BlitzDrake]

You murderer.

I can leik state the reasons why I don't think it's bad to eat it. I mean, liek, if I can't eat it, I might go through a withdraw or my mental state might just die because I can't chose to eat this because its prohibited from being sold now. Like ermegerd guys. T_T

[Zovesta]

people can give birth at home ya know that saves a lot of money right there and im sure that most people can find the help (from family or w/e) to be able to pay for the medical bills or hay theres this thing called insurence that most people have that pays a good portion of the bills.

1. Giving birth at home can be a serious health risk, and that's for women who already DON'T have health problems.

2. Not all families are willing to help.

3. Not everyone has insurance.

4. Are you even reading their arguments.

 

Edit: Finally got caught up. I feel like this is relevant: warning for a bit of language but it REALLY sums up how i feel about this.

 

Here's the same thing with the language snipped out. =P

 

Original post: "Wow if this isn’t the most depressing tumblr hysteria I’ve witnessed. Where a woman is being glorified and honored for standing up ‘bravely’ so that the murder of children may continue. The bill won’t even ban abortion altogether, it bans abortion after the pregnancy is HALF OVER. The baby has a heartbeat and can move around and some babies have even survived abortions performed not long after that. The world is so seriously messed up when this is what people call heroic."

 

Response: "Awwwwwww, you mean that oblivious clump of half-developed entrails has its OWN WIDDEW HEAWTBEAT!?!

So does every maggot in your garbage can, which, unlike an embryo, already does something productive for the environment and has a vague concept of self-preservation. Every ant you’ve ever stepped on. Every gnat you’ve ever breathed in. Every animal that’s ever died to feed that first-world gut of yours that will likely never experience any real suffering in your cushy little American teenage white boy life.

HEY YOU KNOW WHAT CARES ABOUT AND COMPREHENDS LIFE AND DEATH? SURE AS HELL NOT THIS *snip* THING.

A heart is a muscle for pumping oxygen-laden fluid through an animal’s anatomy, not some *snip* rainbow pixie dust Lisa Frank poetry of the human soul. Whine harder about how women’s rights hurt your little pansy ass eighteen year old babyman feelings."

Edited July 3, 2013 by Zovesta

[brairtrainer]

people can give birth at home ya know that saves a lot of money right there and im sure that most people can find the help (from family or w/e) to be able to pay for the medical bills or hay theres this thing called insurence that most people have that pays a good portion of the bills.

I wouldn't be able too, and neither would my mother or sisters. I can't take advantage of that because of a uterus shape defect that is known to exist in my mother (but no doctor I've seen is willing to give me an ultrasound* for it because I'm not currently trying to get pregnant ).

 

Also for the other things you've stated, what about women with ectopic pregnancies? What about women(like my mother) who have been told that it would be unhealthy for her to go through a sterilzation surgery (due to problems with the hormonal birth control she used showed she can't handle unnatural spikes and drops) and that another birth would kill her? Shouldn't she have the choice? Shouldn't I have the choice that if I don't find out about the miss-shape until I'm out of the narrow surgery window on whether to go through with a high risk pregnancy? One that could kill the child and myself?

 

You don't know other women's stories, you don't know that the woman is aborting a much wanted pregnancy due to medical issues, because they can't afford to put the child into the already floundering abortion system, because they need to focus on their future so they can provide themselves and any children they wish to have with a good future.

 

Look at the nine year old who was excomunicated from the catholic church because she had an abortion, which if she didn't have would have killed her and the twins inside of her. There are links elsewhere in the thread about it. Then get back to me, and tell me that I shouldn't have a choice because the potential life is more important, even though there is a chance that pregnancy can kill me.

 

Edit: *I would need a doctor to preform an ultrasound to see if I had the defect. If I did then surgery is an option, but the insurence I'm on (my fathers) only covers parts of preventative care, but this also falls under reproductive health which is not sufficant for the surgery if the insurence decided to see it that way.

Edited July 3, 2013 by brairtrainer

[Fuzzbucket]

Can I just say, I've heard several times about women who really did not want children EVER, tried to get sterilized, and the doctors wouldn't approve it because they assumed the woman would change their mind and want kids? It's apparently pretty darn hard and complicated to get it approved and done.

Not only women who don't want children. At 28, with two and my family complete, most doctors I went to refused - and when I found one - to mu DISGUST (and his) they tried to make my PARTNER sign that he was OK with it too... He refused, and stood there in the hospital saying it was my damn body, NOT his property, and I could do as I liked with it - and did he LOOK as if he was trying to prevent me doing it ? I think he got the point across... But that is the same point if I'd been having an abortion at that time. It's my body and the clump of cells can leech off someone else if it isn't the right time for me to allow a parasite into my body.

 

Oh - all these doctors were male, of course. And they KNEW what was best for me. NOT.

 

No-one says anyone HAS to have an abortion. No-one is MAKING you have one. But don't trample over those who feel otherwise. That would be just like them saying "hey, you're pregnant - eeeeeewww, we'll abort that."

 

By the way - if I hadn't had the abortion I did - those two children would never have been born, nor would my grandchildren.

 

Edited. I am SO the typefail queen :

Edited July 3, 2013 by fuzzbucket

[BlitzDrake]

Because I found this when I was looking up egg salad recipes

 

Edited July 3, 2013 by BlightWyvern

[diannethegeek]

people can give birth at home ya know that saves a lot of money right there and im sure that most people can find the help (from family or w/e) to be able to pay for the medical bills or hay theres this thing called insurence that most people have that pays a good portion of the bills.

FWIW, both of my sisters gave birth to very wanted children and were fully insured during their pregnancies. However, many insurance providers in the US do not cover maternity care and a completely uncomplicated birth can cost the parents $10,000 or more, not including thousands of dollars in prenatal doctors visits and sonograms, plus the added cost of additional medications and complications, and the actual cost of the babiy once it's born.

 

Off the top of my head, I cannot think of one person or any combination of people who could help me raise $10,000+. And no, you cannot count on insurance to cover a good portion of anything maternity related.

[sparkle10184]

there are plenty of ways to prevent pregnancy and if they dont work then clearly the CHILD belongs here if you dont want a kid and dont wanna get pregnant there are reversable procedures that you can go have incase you change your mine or if you never want one and dont wanna ever risk it then get fixed plain and simple and btw the "its my body" crap is just that crap cuz its that babys body youre breaking and burning and killing and it should have the same right you want to have

What if giving birth would be most likely fatal for the mother? Are you saying a clump cells are more important than a living, breathing human being? Sometimes there's no way out. It's the mother or the cells.

[Obscure_Trash]

Alright, no more "murderer/you murderer/I'm guess I'm a murderer" type posts. They're spammy as they are not adding to the discussion.

 

Take a break instead of posting if you're getting frustrated.

[Slaskia]

Just thought I'd put this here: Pro-abortion chants 'hail satan' at protest

 

Yeah...first is the use of 'pro-abortion' instead of 'pro-choice' (but it's theBlaze, what do you expect? I wouldn't recommend reading the comments either *I actually resisted for once*) and then there's the 'hail satan' part. Yeah...that's going to help the pro-choicers cause folks.....

[hydrargyrum]

I know I'm a bit slow responding, but I wanted to share my thoughts and another perspective on the "but what if YOU had been aborted?!?" argument.

 

My mother thought she never wanted kids, but then changed her mind; I was a decision, not an accident. If she had considered abortion it would have been for a very good reason (either a severe defect or dangerous for her health, in which case I would much rather have been aborted). What if, instead, she had never changed her mind about kids? What if, assuming birth control never failed, I had never been conceived? Can you please tell me in what way my life would have been different in a meaningful way if I had never been conceived versus if I had been aborted?

 

All the pro-lifers always say "if you don't want kids, don't have sex" (which is ridiculous for a lot of reasons, but that's beside the point I'm making). If you care so much about the POTENTIAL life (it could cure cancer! Could be the next president! Think about the life they could have!), then you have to care about the potential life of someone who could've been conceived, but wasn't. Every egg-cell has the potential to be fertilized and therefore the potential to become a person (and a fertilized egg has the potential to be spontaneously miscarried or become a tumor, etc, so it's not like it goes from a small percent chance to a certainty when fertilized).

 

It's like there's something magic about an action. Because an egg requires an action to become a zygote, and a fetus requires an action to be intentionally aborted, then somehow that makes them radically different. I'm not saying there's no difference, but is there really enough that abortion should be illegal?