Abortion

[TCA]

if you're too young or too stupid or too selfish or w/e to raise a child there are soo many people who would be glad to to adopt the CHILD

No there aren't. There are a lot of kids that are perfectly adoptable that are sitting around until they age out of the system, and a lot of them suffer while they're in the system.

 

Also, pregnancy is no walk in the park. It's pretty taxing on your body and can ruin your health, even considering the state of modern medicine. If someone is too young, they are TOO YOUNG and their body could be damaged beyond repair. And if someone has mental health issues, they could end up damaged beyond repair too. Not everyone can afford to deal with the medical issues that come with it, either- do you want the new mom to go from surviving to broke?

 

And also, a lot of the aborted fetuses are aborted well before they have a central nervous system capable of registering pain. So it's not like you're horribly torturing a baby to death- think of it more like putting unwanted or sick cats in an overcrowded shelter in a city where nobody wants to adopt more cats to sleep. Sure, you don't WANT to. Nobody WANTS to put Fluffy down. It's sad. But in the end it can end up being the right choice.

 

As a girl, I can say that if I somehow got pregnant, whether by rape or a fit of temporary insanity (as I really don't have any desire to have sex), I'd abort the thing in a heartbeat. I am adopted. I'm lucky to have a loving family. But I'm starting college in the fall and I want to study molecular biology, and if I was pregnant I'd probably have to drop out, and the high stress and medical issues would put a huge strain on me, and my family would not be able to financially deal with the medical bills.

Edited July 3, 2013 by TheCompleteAnimorph

[Gsea]

You know all I am hearing at the moment is Me me me... my life would be ruined.... that kid would commit suicide or I don't want to carry a child that may die or kill ME or I cant support a child or I hate kids so much that I would just kill MYSELF!... All I am hearing now is me me me... not them or people that may do something great that we wouldn't give them the chance...

Destiny, lets say you got what you wanted - a woman got pregnant, and decided not to abort it because it has a right to live (according to you)

 

That unaborted child grows up and gets pregnant. She doesnt want to give up her life to raise an unwanted child. But you are saying that, this person whose unborn life you defended in the womb, no longer has a right to its life because its unborn, unwanted fetus has a right to life instead?

 

You defend unborn fetuses. Yet what if they grow up and decide to abort their unborn child? You only support the unborn, not those with a life of their own?

[VictorianVivian]

You know what is truly selfish? Having a child you cannot support or properly care for.

 

Also, it's rather amusing (and sad) that I hear "MURDER, MURDER!" from the anti-abortion side, but the minute that baby is born? Well, no food stamps, college, or support for you, buddy. You're outta the womb now! Again, I ask . . . are you willing to contribute 30% or more of your income and resources to support these newly born children because if not, maybe the "selfish" argument just isn't gonna fly . . .

[LascielsShadow]

ok for starters youre using the word "fetus" it is NOT a fetus that is a medical term which morons came up with to make it ok to dehumanize a person who hasnt been born yet. which means yes a killed baby is a killed baby no matter inside the whom or out. o.

lolno. "Fetus" is a scientific term for a stage of development, like "embryo" and "zygote". You not liking it/not wanting to face the reality of a fetus not automatically being the same thing as a born infant does not make that terminology invalid or the people who came up with the term/those who use it so as to be scientifically accurate "morons".

[KageSora]

ever heard of online college, jobs, chatting

 

You... You honestly think that every woman could handle both a pregnancy, raising a child, AND getting an education and doing a job, don't you?

 

That's... Holy that is so wrong I don't even know where to begin explaining how wrong that is.

 

 

I mean, I wasn't even a full-time student in college and I had to drop-out because the stress from schooling ALONE ed up my mental health to the point of being suicidal.

 

I would NOT be able to get an education AND have a pregnancy and then raise a child at the same time. I'd also not be willing to quit a job I enjoy and hope that I can find a new job that pays enough and has enough benefits to support me and a child (since I wouldn't be married--I'm asexual and suspect I'm aromantic, and I'm really not wanting a relationship, so I'd have to be carrying a rape baby) that I don't hate (I had to quit my last job because the stress was contributing to my self-harm and suicidal thoughts as I hated the job). Especially as it would force me to take care of something I can't love the way a mother should.

 

I cannot stand children. I just can't. I would have it taken away for abuse or neglect, simply because I cannot tolerate being around them for any length of time.

 

And throwing it into a system that isn't working right and is already overflowing just sounds more cruel than preventing it from knowing suffering.

[linda3.0]

All I'm hearing from the pro-forced-birth side is " you if you dare end up pregnant somehow--even if it's no fault of your own--and don't want the child! you if you have a medical condition that would make carrying to term dangerous or impossible! you if you dare not throw your child in a system that produces a horrifying number of kids who actually wish they were aborted! you for daring to assert that you're a human being and not an incubator with legs!"

 

 

Because, really, I'm not a walking incubator. My uterus is not for use by whatever little parasite ends up in it without my consent. Don't like it? Too damn bad, it's my body, not yours, and you have no right to tell me what I should do with my body.

there are plenty of ways to prevent pregnancy and if they dont work then clearly the CHILD belongs here if you dont want a kid and dont wanna get pregnant there are reversable procedures that you can go have incase you change your mine or if you never want one and dont wanna ever risk it then get fixed plain and simple and btw the "its my body" crap is just that crap cuz its that babys body youre breaking and burning and killing and it should have the same right you want to have

[Destiny Arts]

I feel like this is getting to hectic. Let me just say that people are on a win lose game for abortion and that no matter how hard you try some people refuse to shake. I'm out for now.

[Gsea]

there are plenty of ways to prevent pregnancy and if they dont work then clearly the CHILD belongs here

Right. If the condom breaks then CLEARLY it is FATE saying that the child BELONGS HERE.

 

Uh sure.

[pudding]

ok for starters youre using the word "fetus" it is NOT a fetus that is a medical term which morons came up with to make it ok to dehumanize a person who hasnt been born yet. which means yes a killed baby is a killed baby no matter inside the whom or out. also im sure there are ways for the mother to still have a life and education and job while being at home pregnant ever heard of online college, jobs, chatting? plus when youre pregnant youre not just stuck in the house like a shut in you can still go out and do things. also the current system of adoption itself is the problem not the number of children in it for starters the costs of trying to adopt a child are far too high not many people can afford to pay everything involved in trying to simply get the child. secondly the standards for adopting are far too high im not saying we let kids go to abusive, filthy, bad enviornments but they dont need to go over every little detail with a fine tooth comb unless theres a reason for it. plus there are people who discriminate against children in the adoption system for w/e reason so that could be a reason that they dont get taken too.

 

I'd just like people to realize that childbirth isn't nine months and then you wipe your hands clean of everything. Even with adoption, it's a lifelong commitment. And even nine months is a very long time. Time you won't get back.

 

If humans were like seahorses and the men gave birth, abortion wouldn't be an issue. It would be completely up to choice.

 

there are plenty of ways to prevent pregnancy and if they dont work then clearly the CHILD belongs here

 

Or birth control is never 100% accurate. Medicine never works 100% of the time. NEVER.

 

 

 

[VictorianVivian]

LOL, try finding a doctor who will "fix" you (uh, "fix" implies that something is "broken" to begin with, so you do the ironic math) before the age of about 37.

 

It isn't that easy, because "what if you want to have a kid later?" You know what? If I ever want that, I'll adopt one of those older ones that have been forgotten about by those who claim to fight for their rights.

[TCA]

if you never want one and dont wanna ever risk it then get fixed plain and simple

Can I just say, I've heard several times about women who really did not want children EVER, tried to get sterilized, and the doctors wouldn't approve it because they assumed the woman would change their mind and want kids? It's apparently pretty darn hard and complicated to get it approved and done.

 

Also, you still haven't addressed, what about people who just plain can't even afford a pregnancy? Getting an abortion isn't free, but it's less of a financial strain than all the cumulative medical bills of carrying and delivering. And it's not like you can get a job while you're pregnant- only pregnant women I've seen working were teachers who already had the position.

Edited July 3, 2013 by TheCompleteAnimorph

[linda3.0]

LOL, try finding a doctor who will "fix" you (uh, "fix" implies that something is "broken" to begin with, so you do the ironic math) before the age of about 37.

 

It isn't that easy, because "what if you want to have a kid later?" You know what? If I ever want that, I'll adopt one of those older ones that have been forgotten about by those who claim to fight for their rights.

thats why i suggested the reversable ones first and then said if you just never want one go for the irreversable

[Banuk]

there are plenty of ways to prevent pregnancy and if they dont work then clearly the CHILD belongs here

Yeah. If I got pregnant from a rape, that child clearly belongs in this world. Straight from God's mouth: "Oh hey I need this child to be born so you're gonna have to be violated in the worst possible way. I'm looking out for you, I promise."

 

Not.

[Kith]

if you dont want a kid and dont wanna get pregnant there are reversable procedures that you can go have incase you change your mine or if you never want one and dont wanna ever risk it then get fixed plain and simple

As to this, some doctors refuse to do these procedures on women they deem "too young," no matter whether it's the reversible ones or not, how loudly they ask, or how many times. And I don't mean teenagers; I have had several female friends (all over 20, some over 30) nearly desperate to get their tubes tied, and all the doctors they talk to won't do the procedure because of their age and/or the fact that they have not already had children.

[LascielsShadow]

thats why i suggested the reversable ones first and then said if you just never want one go for the irreversable

There is no such thing as reversible sterilisation. The closest thing to that is an IUD, which not all women can use. IT is ridiculously difficult for women, especially young women who have not yet had children to get sterilised (Tubes tied). Doctors almost always feel that they know better than the woman who wishes to be sterilised and/or are concerned about possible future lawsuits because "Oh, you'll change your mind later", "You can't possibly know that you don't want children", and "All women want babies! You'll regret this later!".

[linda3.0]

Can I just say, I've heard several times about women who really did not want children EVER, tried to get sterilized, and the doctors wouldn't approve it because they assumed the woman would change their mind and want kids? It's apparently pretty darn hard and complicated to get it approved and done.

 

Also, you still haven't addressed, what about people who just plain can't even afford a pregnancy? Getting an abortion isn't free, but it's less of a financial strain than all the cumulative medical bills of carrying and delivering.

people can give birth at home ya know that saves a lot of money right there and im sure that most people can find the help (from family or w/e) to be able to pay for the medical bills or hay theres this thing called insurence that most people have that pays a good portion of the bills.

[VictorianVivian]

Even the "reversable" ones are difficult to obtain because there is always a chance of failure to reverse. In fact, "reversable" is kind of a laughable term. Most aren't.

 

FYI, I've had a procedure and it took several years to find a doctor willing to perform it. Also, it is not covered by insurance. You can't just go out and "get one" like buying a bottle of Tylenol for a headache.

Edited July 3, 2013 by VictorianVivian

[Momo]

there are plenty of ways to prevent pregnancy and if they dont work then clearly the CHILD belongs here if you dont want a kid and dont wanna get pregnant there are reversable procedures that you can go have incase you change your mine or if you never want one and dont wanna ever risk it then get fixed plain and simple and btw the "its my body" crap is just that crap cuz its that babys body youre breaking and burning and killing and it should have the same right you want to have

What if someone simply cannot afford such a procedure? What then? The world is vast enough to have women who simply cannot have that as an option, you know.

If the fetus was independent the moment it was spawned.. I'd agree with you there. It would have the same rights as me, because it's not feeding off my nutrients, putting a strain on my health and just making me feel like overall because my body is going insane and my emotions are all over the place. I'm scaring away my best friends and upsetting my always-supportive family by being difficult. Not to mention the sudden amount of weight than puts strain on joints and the pain and all that. Some people talk it up, some people talk it down, but when it comes to it, most of my colleagues have had at least one child, and they say it's complete to go through.

If I ever have children, it will be very late, and it may even be when I'm not biologically able to have them myself. I will adopt because I have no problem with that - I actually prefer it - but if I do wind up with a child that I did not want before I am ready, I am aborting it, sorry.

[KageSora]

No that's not what I ment I just ment that people are talking about themselves a lot and not about someone else ( as the child inside) it

I speak for myself because I don't presume that my voice can reflect the voices of others who have a uterus. I like to, when I can, present scenarios that may be those that others find themselves in, but I can only speak with the strongest conviction when I speak for myself as I know my own circumstances better than those of others.

 

You, however, seem to presume that you can speak for the unborn, who would be terminated without ever reaching the stage in development where they could even know what life is much less actually have opinions and desires.

 

 

 

And you know what? The rabid-pro-forced-birth crowd are seriously one of the driving forces behind my growing desire to have my uterus removed. I never plan to use it (so why suffer from periods?). I don't want a child, sterilization is a pain in the ass to get without kids. And I'm honestly absolutely terrified for my own health if I end up raped and pregnant because clearly none of you care what happens to me as long as I pop out a kid.

 

Newsflash: If I kill myself, the fetus dies too. Would you rather have one death from an abortion, or a suicide (thus killing the fetus as well) from a pregnant woman ending her life?

Edited July 3, 2013 by KageSora

[LascielsShadow]

people can give birth at home ya know that saves a lot of money right there and im sure that most people can find the help (from family or w/e) to be able to pay for the medical bills or hay theres this thing called insurence that most people have that pays a good portion of the bills.

Your privilege is showing. No, in fact, there is a significant number of people who cannot just get help form "their family or whatever" to pay bills, and who can't afford insurance. There are many, many poor women who are in this situation.

[TCA]

people can give birth at home ya know that saves a lot of money right there and im sure that most people can find the help (from family or w/e) to be able to pay for the medical bills or hay theres this thing called insurence that most people have that pays a good portion of the bills.

It might save money, but if there's a complication they could die, or they'll end up having to go to the hospital anyways.

 

And you say MOST people. What about the ones who can't find any help? What if they don't HAVE insurance, or their deductible is too high and so they get each separate smaller bill without insurance's help? It adds up, you know. You'd ruin a woman's life so she can pop out a baby and put it into the adoption system where it might NEVER find a home.

 

Look, it's okay to believe that abortion is morally wrong. It is NOT okay to say "okay, I believe abortion is morally wrong, so NOBODY can EVER have one!" Because really, there are plenty of cases where it IS the better choice.

 

Stealing is morally wrong. But if your family is starving, you can either let them starve or steal food. Both are bad options, but stealing is the better choice. If the options are abortion, or bring the child into a life where it's unwanted and it causes the mother to be mentally/physically/financially ruined for life...

Edited July 3, 2013 by TheCompleteAnimorph

[VictorianVivian]

Hate to break it to you, but "most people" can't afford much these days and "most people" cannot simply call someone up and get money.

[KageSora]

Your privilege is showing. No, in fact, there is a significant number of people who cannot just get help form "their family or whatever" to pay bills, and who can't afford insurance. There are many, many poor women who are in this situation.

Yeah, like the people who have the rest of their family just as hard-up for money as they are or are even worse off and who have no rich friends to bail them out.

 

You want women to be able to just go out and get that? Then fight for reform to make it covered by insurance, to make it cheaper and more affordable, to better protect doctors from lawsuits by those who changed their minds so that they'll be more willing to perform the procedures.

 

Even after that, though, you'll have people who can't afford it.

[LascielsShadow]

Yeah, like the people who have the rest of their family just as hard-up for money as they are or are even worse off and who have no rich friends to bail them out.

 

You want women to be able to just go out and get that? Then fight for reform to make it covered by insurance, to make it cheaper and more affordable, to better protect doctors from lawsuits by those who changed their minds so that they'll be more willing to perform the procedures.

 

Even after that, though, you'll have people who can't afford it.

This X a million. There are a significant number of women (me included) who would jump at he chance to be sterilised if it were more available and affordable. Reduce the cost, reduce the barriers that currently prevent women from easily accessing the procedure, reduce the risk for doctors who perform it, and you'll see a dent put in the number of women having abortions.

[Rosedamai]

there is NEVER an excuse to abort. if you're too young or too stupid or too selfish or w/e to raise a child there are soo many people who would be glad to to adopt the CHILD and yes it is a child no matter what science/medicine w/e labels it otherwise that you're throwing away. even in a situation of drunkenness or rape or any situation of that sort the baby deserves to get to live its life even if it cant live it with the biological "family" a person can take 9 months out of their life to do the right thing rather than depriving an innocent child of the many years it should have.

You are completely ignoring the fact that pregnancy itself is shamed.

Also it's not a baby. It's a fetus. There is a reason why we make up scientific terms. A fetus and a baby is very different.