Abortion

[Gsea]

I don't have a very good relationship with my own mother. My instinct is to exist and leave a large enough ink trail for the newer generations to want to follow. So I don't really care much for the intimate interaction with family life more than my desire to continue to succeed, but when my mother mentioned that she desperately wanted a daughter that would do things with her like bake and shop and gossip, I was crushed. I essentially was not what she wanted on the personal side of things ( though she is proud of my vast amount of academic success ) and though that is on a much smaller scale than abortion, I know that if I was a child she did not want at all, I would simply rather be aborted than give her that kind of grief.

This is somewhat similar to my situation with my mother. My mother was young when she had me, but didn't consider abortion because she was ready to have a child. However, she has repeatedly told me that I'm not the daughter she expected, not the girly-girl who loves shopping and going to the mall with friends, or getting hair and nails done. I'm possibly the last thing she wanted in terms of personality, being an introverted, somewhat reclusive, socially anxious person with only a newly emerging interest in the girly stuff I 'should' have liked years ago.

 

She never wanted to abort me, but if she had, I would rather her do what makes her happy than keep me. Because in the long run, we both would have been unhappy - she would have a child she really didn't want, not just because I would turn out so different than she wanted, but because she literally didn't want to raise me at all, and I'd live my life knowing I was unwanted.

 

~~~

 

As for my views on abortion, I'm totally for it. I do plan on having children some day, and look forward to being a mother. However, I don't plan on it any time soon. Whenever in my life I become sexually active (which is in the somewhat-far future, because I'm 15 and have never even had a relationship partner of any sort, let alone a sexual one) I will probably use birth control to prevent unwanted pregnancy. I do, one day, want to be a mother. But not any time soon. I have a future ahead of me that I look forward to, a good career as a result of my advanced current education, and I don't plan on being a mother right after college (like my mother when she had me).

 

And if, during my time enrolled in college and when I first begin the career I'm hoping to have, I become pregnant, I probably will not want to have that child then. If that actually happens, maybe by that point I might have changed my mind. But for now I can say I don't plan on having children in, like, the next 10 years, and if I get pregnant, abortion will/should be an open option for me.

 

Edited to reword a couple things, so they sound clearer.

Edited July 3, 2013 by glamoursea2

[VictorianVivian]

Ok I can see that not one can be right or wrong on here. It's a win lose thing because I really don't want to change people into me ( that would be terrible ) but what I would like to know from you what is your beliefs or were do you stand on a topic like that? Because I find things like that interesting because it's another persons view.

I generally don't discuss my personal beliefs in a public arena because I don't really understand the need to do so. One must be the change one wishes to see in the world. That's what I try to do.

 

I've always found that the wisest of people are able to look at a thought, entertain that thought, and then leave it behind while still holding to firm to their own beliefs. If you are Christian, I can see why abortion does not agree with you and that is fine. It is your right to believe that, if you wish to believe it. If it is right for you, then it is the right path. It really is that simple.

 

As for abortion? I believe that what someone else does with their body is none of my business. I've already discussed what I personally believe and what I would do for myself, but others? That is their choice and I have no right to say that someone should or should not have abortion. I feel that it is a personal choice for every woman involved.

 

No one can know another person's circumstances or thoughts. To do so is to cast judgment, if you ask me. Regardless of what you believe, judgement (with or without that accursed "E!") is never the way to go.

[linda3.0]

there is NEVER an excuse to abort. if you're too young or too stupid or too selfish or w/e to raise a child there are soo many people who would be glad to to adopt the CHILD and yes it is a child no matter what science/medicine w/e labels it otherwise that you're throwing away. even in a situation of drunkenness or rape or any situation of that sort the baby deserves to get to live its life even if it cant live it with the biological "family" a person can take 9 months out of their life to do the right thing rather than depriving an innocent child of the many years it should have.

[Destiny Arts]

That depends on what you are hearing and seeing. I can't read your mind so I have no idea what you are hearing and seeing.

 

Not all women are fit to be mothers. Not all women want to have kids. Not all women want to carry a child for a full term only to give it up to a flawed and broken adoption system. Don't force these women to do something that violates their personal rights. If you don't like abortion, don't have one. But give other people the right to choose.

 

Oh, and a pet peeve of mine; religious arguments really don't have a place here when talking about making abortion illegal or legal. At least in America, we are supposed to be secular in that we don't favor one religion over another. Biblical arguments have no place in legislation. Don't cite the Bible for a reason why abortion should be illegal or legal.

I hear peoples steam Hahaha

[Destiny Arts]

there is NEVER an excuse to abort. if you're too young or too stupid or too selfish or w/e to raise a child there are soo many people who would be glad to to adopt the CHILD and yes it is a child no matter what science/medicine w/e labels it otherwise that you're throwing away. even in a situation of drunkenness or rape or any situation of that sort the baby deserves to get to live its life even if it cant live it with the biological "family" a person can take 9 months out of their life to do the right thing rather than depriving an innocent child of the many years it should have.

Hive five!

[pudding]

there is NEVER an excuse to abort. if you're too young or too stupid or too selfish or w/e to raise a child there are soo many people who would be glad to to adopt the CHILD and yes it is a child no matter what science/medicine w/e labels it otherwise that you're throwing away. even in a situation of drunkenness or rape or any situation of that sort the baby deserves to get to live its life even if it cant live it with the biological "family" a person can take 9 months out of their life to do the right thing rather than depriving an innocent child of the many years it should have.

So what is your opinion on the state of adoption right now? Because there are so many kids waiting to be adopted. We don't need to flood the system with even more.

 

Some reading about adoption

[Destiny Arts]

So what is your opinion on the state of adoption right now? Because there are so many kids waiting to be adopted. We don't need to flood the system with even more.

 

Some reading about adoption

What do you mean about flooding?

[VictorianVivian]

So what if you spontaneously miscarry? Your body "aborted" the fetus on its own. Should you be tried for murder? (I don't say that be unkind, I'm merely curious.)

 

Also, I assume those who say abortion should "NEVER" take place are willing to adopt at least 10 of these precious children and raise them themselves. Therefore, I will assume that the death penalty is unacceptable and that food stamps, college tuition, and living expenses will be paid for all of these newly born children by generous anti-abortion supporters. I feel very certain that those who wish this are personally willing to contribute more in taxes to this cause. Perhaps 30% of your family's paycheck or more?

[linda3.0]

Hive five!

-high five- oh btw as an after thought if i were to say take a baby out of a mothers arms and pull off its limbs, burn it with acid, stab it in the head and suck its brains out etc (things people apparently find it acceptable to do to the unborn) i would probably recieve life in prison or at least some very loooong sentence. honestly any doctor who preforms the abortion procedure should lose their medical license and be barred from ever practicing any medicine again and any person who has or even tries to have one should have serious legal reprecussions as well. also no there is a difference between a natural miscarrage and a conscious choice to snuff out a babys life miscarrages cant be helped murder can.

Edited July 3, 2013 by linda3.0

[Destiny Arts]

I also hear peoples voices when reading things like this but cant post because it is a forum.... I find if funny don't ask think is off topic.

[KageSora]

there is NEVER an excuse to abort. if you're too young or too stupid or too selfish or w/e to raise a child there are soo many people who would be glad to to adopt the CHILD and yes it is a child no matter what science/medicine w/e labels it otherwise that you're throwing away. even in a situation of drunkenness or rape or any situation of that sort the baby deserves to get to live its life even if it cant live it with the biological "family" a person can take 9 months out of their life to do the right thing rather than depriving an innocent child of the many years it should have.

Except for all the children who are waiting to be adopted but either nobody wants them or the system is too screwed up to allow them to go to the homes that are trying to take them in.

 

Except that, in some cases, IT WILL LITERALLY KILL THE WOMAN.

 

Except that, in some cases, the fetus will not be unharmed because the woman can't handle it.

 

You shove a fetus in me, the hormones screwing with my already highly fragile emotional and mental state? I will either be face down in the river (with the fetus dead inside me as well), or that fetus is gonna be ed up from the heavy-duty medications I'm taking to keep myself from offing myself. Added to that the only way I would get pregnant right now is through the highly traumatic experience known as RAPE. So yeah, somebody who's mental and emotional health is obscenely fragile is not exactly the safest candidate to go through a traumatic experience then 9 months of additional dragging out of that traumatic experience followed by giving birth to the screaming poop-sack that owes half of their existence to a complete monster who can then sue me for custody (depending on where I live).

 

Or are you really saying that I deserve to be broken beyond repair in the event that I'm raped and knocked up? If you are, you're NOT pro-life. You're an anti-woman pro-forced-birther who sees women as nothing more than broodmares.

[LascielsShadow]

there is NEVER an excuse to abort. if you're too young or too stupid or too selfish or w/e to raise a child there are soo many people who would be glad to to adopt the CHILD and yes it is a child no matter what science/medicine w/e labels it otherwise that you're throwing away. even in a situation of drunkenness or rape or any situation of that sort the baby deserves to get to live its life even if it cant live it with the biological "family" a person can take 9 months out of their life to do the right thing rather than depriving an innocent child of the many years it should have.

Yeah, like there are all those people out there clamoring to adopt the many thousands of children in foster care right now.

 

You DO realise that there are times when it is medically necessary to abort, as in the fetus will kill the woman carrying it if the pregnancy is not terminated? Do you believe that things such as ectopic pregnancy or the mother's body being insufficiently developed (as in the case of children who become pregnant via rape) do not actually happen? Are we meant to allow women and girls to die for the sake of undeveloped fetuses that will die anyway?

 

You talk about "taking 9 months out of their lives" to carry a pregnancy to term as if it means nothing and the woman carrying the pregnancy is not an actual person. How about the impact carrying an unwanted pregnancy will have on her life and her body? Does that not factor in at all? Women are not incubators to be used to gestate fetuses against their will.

Edited July 3, 2013 by LascielsShadow

[Destiny Arts]

-high five- oh btw as an after thought if i were to say take a baby out of a mothers arms and pull off its limbs, burn it with acid, stab it in the head and suck its brains out etc (things people apparently find it acceptable to do to the unborn) i would probably recieve life in prison or at least some very loooong sentence. honestly any doctor who preforms the abortion procedure should lose their medical license and be barred from ever practicing any medicine again and any person who has or even tries to have one should have serious legal reprecussions as well.

DOUBLE HIGH FIVE!!!!!! Also did you hear about the abortioner in Philidelphia PA? If not PM me for more info.

[Gsea]

-high five- oh btw as an after thought if i were to say take a baby out of a mothers arms and pull off its limbs, burn it with acid, stab it in the head and suck its brains out etc (things people apparently find it acceptable to do to the unborn) i would probably recieve life in prison or at least some very loooong sentence. honestly any doctor who preforms the abortion procedure should lose their medical license and be barred from ever practicing any medicine again and any person who has or even tries to have one should have serious legal reprecussions as well.

I'm not going to justify the murder of a born child. What you just described definitely does sound awful.

 

But an aborted fetus is not

not

not

the same thing as a murdered baby.

 

I just-

I'll let someone else explain this, they could probably word it better than I could.

 

But speaking of your earlier post and 'depriving a child of the years it should have' -

If the mother does not want that child, yet she decides to have it (because, let's say that it is illegal to get an abortion, and she's forced to carry it out and give birth to it) then that is essentially depriving her of whatever she wanted to do before she got pregnant.

It's depriving her of finishing her education or pursuing her career or simply enjoying her life. But it's worth it, right, because that child got a chance to live?

 

And what about the children absolutely suffering in the adoption system? Without going into detail, I'll just say that there are many children out there who probably wish they'd been aborted.

But at least they got a chance to live, right?

At least we didn't deprive them of the many years in suffering?

 

Sorry if I'm not making myself very articulate.

It's late and I'm tired but I couldn't not say these things, even if I'm repeating so many other people.

[Banuk]

Ha, that's funny.

 

I'm not a uterus with legs. I should not have to carry anything inside my body that I don't want there, regardless of reasons.

 

I would dare anyone in here insinuating that women are nothing but fetus incubators to tell that to someone in real life. Get it on camera. I want to see what happens.

[KageSora]

Depriving a child of the years it should have?

 

What about depriving the WOMAN of the 18+ years she should have had that she is now forced to devote to something she may never love or want? How is that less cruel than a fetus dying before it could ever have even known what life was?

[Destiny Arts]

Except for all the children who are waiting to be adopted but either nobody wants them or the system is too screwed up to allow them to go to the homes that are trying to take them in.

 

Except that, in some cases, IT WILL LITERALLY KILL THE WOMAN.

 

Except that, in some cases, the fetus will not be unharmed because the woman can't handle it.

 

You shove a fetus in me, the hormones screwing with my already highly fragile emotional and mental state? I will either be face down in the river (with the fetus dead inside me as well), or that fetus is gonna be ed up from the heavy-duty medications I'm taking to keep myself from offing myself. Added to that the only way I would get pregnant right now is through the highly traumatic experience known as RAPE. So yeah, somebody who's mental and emotional health is obscenely fragile is not exactly the safest candidate to go through a traumatic experience then 9 months of additional dragging out of that traumatic experience followed by giving birth to the screaming poop-sack that owes half of their existence to a complete monster who can then sue me for custody (depending on where I live).

 

Or are you really saying that I deserve to be broken beyond repair in the event that I'm raped and knocked up? If you are, you're NOT pro-life. You're an anti-woman pro-forced-birther who sees women as nothing more than broodmares.

You know all I am hearing at the moment is Me me me... my life would be ruined.... that kid would commit suicide or I don't want to carry a child that may die or kill ME or I cant support a child or I hate kids so much that I would just kill MYSELF!... All I am hearing now is me me me... not them or people that may do something great that we wouldn't give them the chance...

[Banuk]

You know all I am hearing at the moment is Me me me... my life would be ruined.... that kid would commit suicide or I don't want to carry a child that may die or kill ME or I cant support a child or I hate kids so much that I would just kill MYSELF!... All I am hearing now is me me me... not them or people that may do something great that we wouldn't give them the chance...

Uhm. Yeah. My body. I'm allowed to be selfish about my body. It's mine.

 

Or, if your argument is that a woman isn't allowed to have complete control of her body, do you support rape? After all, isn't saying no and depriving someone else of sex selfish?

 

/sarcasm

 

Edit: Oh, might as well do away with reporting rapists to the authorities too. Wouldn't want some poor person who violated me to be deprived of the many years ahead of them (to rot in jail) because I was selfish enough to not want them.

 

Also /sarcasm

Edited July 3, 2013 by Derranged

[LascielsShadow]

not them or people that may do something great that we wouldn't give them the chance...

Or they could be the next Hitler or Jeffrey Dahmer. "OMG, they could grow up to cure cancer/eliminate world hunger/do some other great thing!" is one of the stupidest anti-abortion arguments I've ever heard.

 

Also, this:

Uhm. Yeah. My body. I'm allowed to be selfish about my body. It's mine.

 

Or, if your argument is that a woman isn't allowed to have complete control of her body, do you support rape? After all, isn't saying no and depriving someone else of sex selfish?

 

/sarcasm

Edited July 3, 2013 by LascielsShadow

[KageSora]

You know all I am hearing at the moment is Me me me... my life would be ruined.... that kid would commit suicide or I don't want to carry a child that may die or kill ME or I cant support a child or I hate kids so much that I would just kill MYSELF!... All I am hearing now is me me me... not them or people that may do something great that we wouldn't give them the chance...

All I'm hearing from the pro-forced-birth side is " you if you dare end up pregnant somehow--even if it's no fault of your own--and don't want the child! you if you have a medical condition that would make carrying to term dangerous or impossible! you if you dare not throw your child in a system that produces a horrifying number of kids who actually wish they were aborted! you for daring to assert that you're a human being and not an incubator with legs!"

 

 

Because, really, I'm not a walking incubator. My uterus is not for use by whatever little parasite ends up in it without my consent. Don't like it? Too damn bad, it's my body, not yours, and you have no right to tell me what I should do with my body.

Edited July 3, 2013 by KageSora

[Gsea]

You know all I am hearing at the moment is Me me me... my life would be ruined.... that kid would commit suicide or I don't want to carry a child that may die or kill ME or I cant support a child or I hate kids so much that I would just kill MYSELF!... All I am hearing now is me me me... not them or people that may do something great that we wouldn't give them the chance...

Because the life of a woman who has lived her years with more to come is and should be a priority over the life of a fetus that may potentially harm her in any way!!

 

This thread is really triggering my anxiety, I'm gonna go to bed now, because I am not mentally fit to handle this right now.

[KageSora]

people that may do something great that we wouldn't give them the chance...

Here, let me re-state that counter to the "what if it would grow up to cure cancer?!" thing:

 

 

What if the cure for cancer is locked inside the mind of the woman who was forced to drop out and raise a baby she never wanted and will never love?

 

 

Also, what if I give birth to the next Hitler instead of getting an abortion when I can't handle the pregnancy? What then? I'm not a wonderful person who saved the life of a child--no, then I'd be the mother of a monster.

[linda3.0]

I'm not going to justify the murder of a born child. What you just described definitely does sound awful.

 

But an aborted fetus is not

not

not

the same thing as a murdered baby.

 

I just-

I'll let someone else explain this, they could probably word it better than I could.

 

But speaking of your earlier post and 'depriving a child of the years it should have' -

If the mother does not want that child, yet she decides to have it (because, let's say that it is illegal to get an abortion, and she's forced to carry it out and give birth to it) then that is essentially depriving her of whatever she wanted to do before she got pregnant.

It's depriving her of finishing her education or pursuing her career or simply enjoying her life. But it's worth it, right, because that child got a chance to live?

 

And what about the children absolutely suffering in the adoption system? Without going into detail, I'll just say that there are many children out there who probably wish they'd been aborted.

But at least they got a chance to live, right?

At least we didn't deprive them of the many years in suffering?

 

Sorry if I'm not making myself very articulate.

It's late and I'm tired but I couldn't not say these things, even if I'm repeating so many other people.

ok for starters youre using the word "fetus" it is NOT a fetus that is a medical term which morons came up with to make it ok to dehumanize a person who hasnt been born yet. which means yes a killed baby is a killed baby no matter inside the whom or out. also im sure there are ways for the mother to still have a life and education and job while being at home pregnant ever heard of online college, jobs, chatting? plus when youre pregnant youre not just stuck in the house like a shut in you can still go out and do things. also the current system of adoption itself is the problem not the number of children in it for starters the costs of trying to adopt a child are far too high not many people can afford to pay everything involved in trying to simply get the child. secondly the standards for adopting are far too high im not saying we let kids go to abusive, filthy, bad enviornments but they dont need to go over every little detail with a fine tooth comb unless theres a reason for it. plus there are people who discriminate against children in the adoption system for w/e reason so that could be a reason that they dont get taken too.

[Momo]

Or are you really saying that I deserve to be broken beyond repair in the event that I'm raped and knocked up?  If you are, you're NOT pro-life.  You're an anti-woman pro-forced-birther who sees women as nothing more than broodmares.

Um, yes. Thank you so much for that.

I have been trying to find just the right way to explain how I feel about this "extremist" comments or people that I come across, and that is exactly it. Thank you, Kagesora.

Most of the time, don't get me wrong, I come across some very rational pro-lifers with very well-kept arguments. By the end of our debate, we're onto something new, conversing like good friends. Some, however, I find it ironic that they would call themselves pro-lifers, the key word life, when the woman's own life is at stake.

Birth can kill her.

She was raped and the emotional toll kills her inside.

She abuses that child and by legal standards actually does murder it.

She kills herself.

someone dies.

 

As for me, I am my own person. Women are not tools that, once pregnant, instantly get the privilege to raise a child they may not have wanted, yay! We don't follow the patterns of most animals that the female is overtaken and sired. We have a choice. Being selfish is not good, but in some, very serious cases, that, you know, decide pretty much the rest of our lives, it's time to be selfish. Being selfish towards your own body, um yes. What Derranged pointed out about the rape concept is VERY disturbing, but mainly because it's so true.

[Destiny Arts]

Uhm. Yeah. My body. I'm allowed to be selfish about my body. It's mine.

 

Or, if your argument is that a woman isn't allowed to have complete control of her body, do you support rape? After all, isn't saying no and depriving someone else of sex selfish?

 

/sarcasm

No that's not what I ment I just ment that people are talking about themselves a lot and not about someone else ( as the child inside) it