Abortion

[WereJace]

DOUBLE HIGH FIVE!!!!!! Also did you hear about the abortioner in Philidelphia PA? If not PM me for more info.

Kermit Gosnell, yes? He and his practise are a glimpse into the future if legal abortion is prevented. Stopping doctors from performing abortions does nothing but push women in desperate straits to deal with people like that monster. Making abortion illegal does not stop it from happening.

 

To reduce abortions requires support for women who choose birth-better benefits to support them while they raise their children and better/more accessible healthcare for mother and child. It requires comprehensive, no-lies sexual and health education. It requires birth control be available in multiple forms and as close to free as possible for anyone who asks for it. It requires a restructured foster system and I don't even know where to begin there. It requires honesty and compassion from every health care provider at every stage, and it requires that even with all of the resources available, some women will still choose abortion and they should be allowed to do so.

 

Abortion has been happening since humanity began and it will not stop just because some lawmakers or churches say it should. All we can do is educate people, help them make informed, empowered choices, and use the technology and training available to us to mitigate harm.

[rin52]

there are plenty of ways to prevent pregnancy and if they dont work then clearly the CHILD belongs here if you dont want a kid and dont wanna get pregnant there are reversable procedures that you can go have

I'm sorry for bringing this up from a few pages back, but I have to say something about this.

 

For some women, birth control is not recommended (I am one of those, for me it would actually be a tool to use to GET pregnant). Condoms can break, and if it does I think that a woman should have the right to decide on to keep the child or not. Also, some women might not want to have those procedures done. I do not know much about them, but I would assume that there is a risk to them as there are in all procedures. If something were to go wrong there could be permanent damage. I personally don't trust that all 'reversible procedures' will truly be reversible in all cases. Also, some women can't afford to be out of commission while recovering from that procedure.

 

So, what if those women who can't take birth control get raped? I highly doubt that the rapist would use a condom, which would have been women's only defense? I would rather abort than raise a rapists child.

 

On tumblr the other day, I saw a quote from a therapist saying that they had only had to do consoling for women who had been denied an abortion.

[Brite]

there is NEVER an excuse to abort. if you're too young or too stupid or too selfish or w/e to raise a child there are soo many people who would be glad to to adopt the CHILD and yes it is a child no matter what science/medicine w/e labels it otherwise that you're throwing away. even in a situation of drunkenness or rape or any situation of that sort the baby deserves to get to live its life even if it cant live it with the biological "family" a person can take 9 months out of their life to do the right thing rather than depriving an innocent child of the many years it should have.

I think my IQ dropped a bit.

 

there is NEVER an excuse to abort

Miscarriages are when the body self aborts for many reasons and you have no control. OR, women can have medical conditions where pregnancy will be a death sentence. And yet you still blame the woman.

 

if you're too young or too stupid or too selfish or w/e to raise a child there are soo many people who would be glad to to adopt the CHILD and yes it is a child no matter what science/medicine w/e labels it otherwise that you're throwing away.

 

Correction, it's stupid and selfish to force a woman to give birth and then have nothing to do with the child after it's born. It's despicable that some people pretend to care about the "child" they so want born. So many wanting to adopt? Thousands of children waiting to be adopted will tell you otherwise. That fetus, yes I said it, FETUS can become a tumor or mass. So what's truly being thrown away?

 

even in a situation of drunkenness or rape or any situation of that sort the baby deserves to get to live its life even if it cant live it with the biological "family" a person can take 9 months out of their life to do the right thing

 

Try restating this if you end up in this situation. And abortions are sometimes the right thing to do.

 

Sits in fear of warn.

 

 

Edited for an extra point.

Edited July 3, 2013 by GhostChilli

[Zovesta]

Omg, GhostChili u don't understand little babbies r important b/c they r full of sunshine n happiness and weh weh weh ;~; ;~; evil women want to kill babbies y?!?

 

*has stopped caring about warns*

 

It's ok if you aren't on board with the concept of abortions - heck, I'M not! I think they're heartbreaking. Just considerably less so than all of the alternatives.

[Brite]

thats why i suggested the reversable ones first and then said if you just never want one go for the irreversable

 

Sure, lemme just skip to the doctors for that procedure. Oops, I'm 19 and they told me to wait for about hrmm.. 20-30 years before trying again. Awell, no sex life till then for meh.

 

 

Omg, GhostChili u don't understand little babbies r important b/c they r full of sunshine n happiness and weh weh weh ;~; ;~; evil women want to kill babbies y?!?

 

Oh it's murder, but perfectly acceptable murder Hurhur

 

This is how most "pro-lifers" I talk to turn out to be:

 

Edited July 3, 2013 by GhostChilli

[Zovesta]

Haha. =P I feel like one of the few people these days who just adores children and babies - yes, even the ones screaming in restaurants and stores. (But then again, I like absolutely everyone until they give me a real reason not to.) I do agree with it being relatively acceptable murder, though. Regrettable, but required.

[Brite]

I do agree with it being relatively acceptable murder, though. Regrettable, but required.

For you. However, I wouldn't regret it. With my views, there's no reason for me to feel bad getting one. A few people here have gotten more than one. I will get an abortion if I have to, though I hope I never have to...

[VictorianVivian]

I did have what is considered a "reversable" procedure, but the prognosis for having it reversed is not good. But it's good for ME.

 

I don't ever, ever, EVER want children. It's the kind of thing that gives me nightmares.

 

A woman that doesn't want to have children is not "broken." She is not "selfish," nor is there "something wrong with her." However, there might be something wrong with YOU if you insist to her that you know what is best for her life because of your particular set of beliefs.

 

I'll say it again . . . why aren't all the anti-abortion spokespeople adopting children or funding them in some way? Because, you know, not doing that would be selfish. There must be something wrong with them.

[Kith]

To reduce abortions requires support for women who choose birth - better benefits to support them while they raise their children and better/more accessible healthcare for mother and child.  It requires comprehensive, no-lies sexual and health education.  It requires birth control be available in multiple forms and as close to free as possible for anyone who asks for it.  It requires a restructured foster system and I don't even know where to begin there.  It requires honesty and compassion from every health care provider at every stage, and it requires that even with all of the resources available, some women will still choose abortion and they should be allowed to do so. 

 

Abortion has been happening since humanity began and it will not stop just because some lawmakers or churches say it should.  All we can do is educate people, help them make informed, empowered choices, and use the technology and training available to us to mitigate harm.

I agree here. I don't think either side wants a lot of women having [to have] abortions; they'd all prefer as many children as possible to be wanted and properly cared for. Reducing the number of unwanted pregnancies pretty much requires an overhaul of how we teach people about sex and contraceptives, as well as how available and affordable the latter are. And I mean all contraceptives: the herbal options, the synthesized oral and injected ones, the barrier methods, the machines that read fertility levels, IUDs and other implants, surgical procedures for both sexes, ALL of it. People should be made aware of their options, will full information on effectiveness, side effects, cost, etc. and not denied access to their chosen form of birth control. If doctors are still leery of surgical methods because someone might change their mind or in the doctor's opinion be too young to be considering them, let there be a standard waiver that absolves the sterilizing doctor of responsibility if a reversal procedure is not successful at a later date.

 

Not that the adoption/foster system doesn't need an overhaul, but if we can slow the rate at which children flow into it, solving the issues and implementing the fixes should be easier to do.

 

Slight edit for clarity

Edited July 4, 2013 by Kith

[Snowytoshi]

there is NEVER an excuse to abort

 

What about this person?

 

A high school aged girl with a small build who comes from a low side of working class background. A girl who is still in school, who has her whole life ahead of her. Having to carry a child to term would cause her to fall steadily behind in school. Now consider that this girl does not plan to have sex anytime soon, this means that this girl would only be impregnated through rape. Consider the emotional effects of rape, the potential panic attacks, depression, etc. Combing that with the stress of bearing a child at such a young age and you have a scenario that can only end badly for the girl. Would you really force a teenage girl to carry to term a baby conceived through rape, knowing that because of her age a pregnacy could cause severe damage to her developing body? Would you consider her selfish or stupid for making a choice to ensure her own health (mental and physical) and her future?

 

This is not a hypothetical scenario. If I was to become pregnant, that scenario would be exactly what would happen. There are many people in this world where something even worse could happen.

[Emeelia]

I myself am not sure where I stand on abortion, when to stop it or when to let it, because so much information is given, and I'm no scientist. But I do know that I hate murder, and would very much would like for the law to make it so that abortions cannot take place once the baby starts to feel pain - which is as soon as at 20 weeks gestation. And personally, I would never wish abortion on my own baby.

 

And birth control is not the same thing as abortion, as my health teacher taught me. It's simply a way of preventing the sperm and egg from attaching to the uterus wall. Birth prevention, not fetus abortion. I may even use it myself when I'm married.

 

@VV, I think it's fine to not want children. I know that I for one am quite scared at the thought! I may be ready someday, but I don't think that day is today or tomorrow!

If we ever do say that we know what's best for someone else's life, we must be crazy. But we do say that God knows what's best for her life, and no one, not you nor me nor her, can decide otherwise. We may decide what is sub-best, but we don't decide what is best honestly. I believe that murder is wrong because God commanded according to the Bible 'Do not murder', and I don't think that murder is ever right. The tricky part about abortion is deciding when it's murder, rather, when a human is human after the formation of a zygote. Except that some of the other users have agreed that it is 'regrettable murder', and I don't know whether you stand here. If you don't believe that the Bible is true... then my argument is moot to you.

And about what you said you'd 'say again'... if you're serious: I don't see how they're not funding them. Those spokespeople are trying their best to save lives. Everybody has a different role; not everybody can contribute all of their money to one good cause and have enough for another good cause. I'm sure there's something wrong with them, but probably not what you're pointing out.

 

@Snowytoshi, I understand your concern, but I still believe that abortion is murder, and there is never an excuse to murder. Therefore, I still don't find abortion of a human being any more acceptable.

 

@Kith, the church knows it won't stop because we say so. We know that we are only human, and have no authority over you guys; no crime has ever stopped completely anywhere since it begun. But we do beseech you to stop because it is wrong to murder, that's all. Abortion should not have to be used to control the human population.

[Rosedamai]

I myself am not sure where I stand on abortion, when to stop it or when to let it, because so much information is given, and I'm no scientist. But I do know that I hate murder, and would very much would like for the law to make it so that abortions cannot take place once the baby starts to feel pain - which is as soon as at 20 weeks gestation. And personally, I would never wish abortion on my own baby.

You're wrong though

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/9053416/

[sparkle10184]

@Snowytoshi, I understand your concern, but I still believe that abortion is murder, and there is never an excuse to murder. Therefore, I still don't find abortion of a human being any more acceptable.

 

So what do you think would be a reasonable action? Force the girl to go through all that stress and emotional trauma? Possibly making her fall into depression ending in suicide?

 

If you can't put the girl's life over the cells, how about thinking about the cells? If they did develop into a living baby imagine what kind of life he/she would have. Most likely being thrown into the adoption system, possibly never having a real home, going through life knowing they're mother was forced into having them. What kind of life is that?

[KageSora]

-snip-

-snip-

 

 

Fully agree here.

 

Education and easy access to birth control of ALL kinds as well as improving the adoption system are key elements to reducing the number of abortions.

 

If we could do something about the misogyny and rape culture that's prevalent in the US, too, that might help as well if it can reduce the number of rapes therefore reducing the chances of rape pregnancy. (And, hell, just reducing rape is an awesome thing all around).

 

I don't like abortion, but I know that in my case it would be the best option because I wouldn't be able to handle a pregnancy. If the adoption system were overhauled to work infinitely better, and I were mentally capable of handling the pregnancy then I would be much more open to carrying to term and putting it up for adoption. But, due to my circumstances that's not really a healthy option for me, therefore I HAVE to have the option to abort if anything ever happens.

 

 

But we do beseech you to stop because it is wrong to murder, that's all

You say it's murder, I say it's no more murder than killing a tapeworm. Both are parasites that would be feeding off my body without my consent, neither are human in my eyes, therefore killing either is not murder.

 

THAT is why religion cannot have a place in making laws on abortion in the US. Because not all of us believe what certain religions claim--that a fetus is a person therefore it is murder.

 

 

I'll respect your right to believe that it's murder--as long as you respect my right to get rid of what I view as a parasite.

[Kith]

@Kith, the church knows it won't stop because we say so. We know that we are only human, and have no authority over you guys; no crime has ever stopped completely anywhere since it begun. But we do beseech you to stop because it is wrong to murder, that's all. Abortion should not have to be used to control the human population.

Um, that was a quote from WereJace that you are attributing to me, I believe. I was talking about contraceptives and sex education.

[Emeelia]

You're wrong though

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/9053416/

I don't see how this proves contrary. Several times through the article, both sides seem to have agreed to disagree. But not only that, the party arguing against fetus pain is using shaky grounds, by it only, maybe, having the appearance of pain instead of actual pain. There is no certainty, except that they not only recoil, as was acknowledged, but they also have a stress response, which they inadvertently admit when discussing risks of anesthesia, to the fetus, toward the mother. I found this just now by others wiser than myself about this matter.

 

 

QUOTE (Emeelia @ Jul 3 2013, 10:04 PM)

@Snowytoshi, I understand your concern, but I still believe that abortion is murder, and there is never an excuse to murder. Therefore, I still don't find abortion of a human being any more acceptable.

 

 

So what do you think would be a reasonable action? Force the girl to go through all that stress and emotional trauma? Possibly making her fall into depression ending in suicide?

 

If you can't put the girl's life over the cells, how about thinking about the cells? If they did develop into a living baby imagine what kind of life he/she would have. Most likely being thrown into the adoption system, possibly never having a real home, going through life knowing they're mother was forced into having them. What kind of life is that?

 

It would not be me or anyone forcing her through that stress and emotional trauma, NOR would it be the baby's fault! Should the person who did not commit or cause the crime (rape) be given the death sentence when rapers (whom you seem to be most concerned about), the cause of the poor girl's grief, gets away with a fine rather than life imprisonment or death?

 

And again, it's not my fault if the girl decides to not kill the baby before it gets a chance to live. It's not bad to want someone to live! Even if the life they will have is horrible, they still deserve a chance to live. Whose life would that be, you ask? Simple: it would be that person's life. I've known of several fetuses who actually did grow to be human beings, despite urges from others to be aborted, and some actually trying and failing to abort it. But they lived. What's sad though, is that on the one girl's page, people still post things such as "you never should have been born" because she had so many health problems, but she's surviving and is glad of life despite the hardships! http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/04/health/surro...ey-legal-battle Everyone's life has a chance at being horrible - your's, mine, his, hers, theirs, ours, everyone's. So if we're better off dying rather than struggling through life... then we should wipe out all of humanity, shouldn't we? But I believe that life is worth living, even through all the pain and suffering and pointless psyche problems and emotional battering and physical pain... if I didn't, I would have killed myself, or wished I never existed. I believe that it's wonderful that we all have a chance to exist... even if sometimes we wish we didn't because of the pain, it's the joy that makes me glad I do.

I assure you, I think about both lives, and I care very much about both of them. Just as much as I don't want any baby to be murdered, I don't want anyone to order the or directly murder a baby. I don't want anyone to be raped, and I don't want anyone to rape anyone. I don't want the result of evil to be more evil.

Please don't think that I don't care, because I do so much.

 

@Kith, you had said in your post that you agreed with everything he said, so... I'm sorry if that did not apply to you.

 

@KageSora, you may, but if there is any way that I can convince you that it is not just a parasite, I will; that is why there are still pro-lifers out there debating with the pro-choicers.

Edited July 4, 2013 by Emeelia

[VictorianVivian]

I myself am not sure where I stand on abortion, when to stop it or when to let it, because so much information is given, and I'm no scientist. But I do know that I hate murder, and would very much would like for the law to make it so that abortions cannot take place once the baby starts to feel pain - which is as soon as at 20 weeks gestation. And personally, I would never wish abortion on my own baby.

 

And birth control is not the same thing as abortion, as my health teacher taught me. It's simply a way of preventing the sperm and egg from attaching to the uterus wall. Birth prevention, not fetus abortion. I may even use it myself when I'm married.

 

@VV, I think it's fine to not want children. I know that I for one am quite scared at the thought! I may be ready someday, but I don't think that day is today or tomorrow!

If we ever do say that we know what's best for someone else's life, we must be crazy. But we do say that God knows what's best for her life, and no one, not you nor me nor her, can decide otherwise. We may decide what is sub-best, but we don't decide what is best honestly. I believe that murder is wrong because God commanded according to the Bible 'Do not murder', and I don't think that murder is ever right. The tricky part about abortion is deciding when it's murder, rather, when a human is human after the formation of a zygote. Except that some of the other users have agreed that it is 'regrettable murder', and I don't know whether you stand here. If you don't believe that the Bible is true... then my argument is moot to you.

And about what you said you'd 'say again'... if you're serious: I don't see how they're not funding them. Those spokespeople are trying their best to save lives. Everybody has a different role; not everybody can contribute all of their money to one good cause and have enough for another good cause. I'm sure there's something wrong with them, but probably not what you're pointing out.

 

 

 

I do not mean this offensively, but I am not a Christian and therefore, your Biblical citations have zero meaning to me. Bible mythology is of no consequence to me. I cannot apologize for that. I respect your beliefs, but they are not my own.

 

Also, by your same argument, if the mother cannot contribute to financial well-being of the child, please tell me who is going to do it. Certainly not our "generous" welfare and support system. These very same people who shout "NO ABORTIONS" also shout "NO FOOD STAMPS" and "NO FREE HEALTH CARE!" Yes, I've witnessed it. I don't know about your residence, but in my area, this is the norm.

 

If you want to see a change, you must BE that change. I do not see "change." I see self-important, ignorant people, putting their words in the mouth of a Higher Power for their own agenda. Hypocrisy wrapped in scripture is still hypocrisy.

 

You can't "fund" a child's life on love or with a "good heart." It takes money. It takes stability. I am not a lover of the material or the monetary, but those things are unfortunate necessities for a child. So, if the anti-abortion activists wish to help, donate more of your taxes to help these children.

 

Can't afford it? Oh, what about the mothers who have children and can't afford them. I suppose they should just "suck it up" as well? That isn't right.

 

By the way, I appreciate your respectful disagreement. It's very nice.

[Banuk]

Yes, I see the same, "It's not the baby's fault!" everywhere...

 

But, if I got pregnant from a rape...is it my fault that that happened (and really, I don't want to hear, "But if it happened, then God wanted it!" because that's just...no, never)? If it isn't, then why should I have to suffer endlessly and needlessly for this horrible thing that happened to me? Why is it SO selfish to put myself ahead of something I never wanted in the first place and was forced upon me by someone else's thoughtless actions?

 

No, it's not the baby's fault if someone gets pregnant. But the mother shouldn't have to suffer for it. And if you think that a fetus is more important than the woman it's growing inside just because it's a fetus, then I'd say you should really do some serious thinking.

Edited July 4, 2013 by Derranged

[Kith]

Abortion has been happening since humanity began and it will not stop just because some lawmakers or churches say it should. All we can do is educate people, help them make informed, empowered choices, and use the technology and training available to us to mitigate harm.

You mean this bit? It is true. It doesn't mean that I want abortions to be happening. It doesn't mean that people who don't want abortions to be happening are (insert insulting word here), and it doesn't mean that people shouldn't believe that it is wrong. The quoted statement means that abortions have happened, are happening, and will continue to happen, and just saying "Stop that, it's wrong!" isn't going to change that, even if someone believes that it is a wrong and murderous act.

 

If people want fewer abortions, that means fewer unwanted pregnancies, which means better education and better contraceptive access so that (in general) the pregnancies don't occur in the first place so the mother doesn't have to worry about whether to get an abortion or not. It means that people need to put their time, energy, and money toward these goals instead of just talking about how wrong it is or engaging in finger-pointing, flame wars, and other such things. Fewer unwanted pregnancies would please everyone on both sides of this issue, so I see no reason not to strive toward that goal through realistic means.

[Norma_Dragoness]

Like I said on Facebook, while some may not agree with abortion, we don't force women to NOT have a kid of they WANT one, so why is it right to force a woman to HAVE a child she doesn't want?

 

It's not about ethics here, I support abortion because I support someone's right to CHOOSE what to do in their own life! We have enough choices made for us as it is!

[Emeelia]

@Kith: Yup, I see what you were saying then, now, and I agree still. Thank you!

 

(Derranged)

But, if I got pregnant from a rape...is it my fault that that happened (and really, I don't want to hear, "But if it happened, then God wanted it!" because that's just...no, never)

No, it definitely isn't your fault. It is the raper's fault, never the raped.

(Derranged)

No, it's not the baby's fault if someone gets pregnant. But the mother shouldn't have to suffer for it. And if you think that a fetus is more important than the woman it's growing inside just because it's a fetus, then I'd say you should really do some serious thinking.

You're right: the mother shouldn't have to suffer for getting pregnant. But the thing is, it's still bad to make the baby suffer for existing.

I don't think the fetus is more or less important than the woman: I think they are both equally loved and important. It is not a choice between murdering the woman or murdering the fetus, is it? No. It's a choice between being pregnant and all of its consequences... or killing someone to avoid all that. The woman is under emotional duress while making the decision, so often chooses the easy way.

 

(Norma_Dragoness)

we don't force women to NOT have a kid of they WANT one, so why is it right to force a woman to HAVE a child she doesn't want?

Nobody forces somebody to have a child or to not have a child, but we do disagree with killing a child in order to not have it. It's a choice, true... but that isn't the issue. It really is about ethics.

 

(VictorianVivian)

If you want to see a change, you must BE that change. I do not see "change." I see self-important, ignorant people, putting their words in the mouth of a Higher Power for their own agenda. Hypocrisy wrapped in scripture is still hypocrisy.

I agree with that. I think that hypocrisy is also horrible, and if you want to see a change, go for it. I also know that bad deeds are easily sighted, whereas "normal" people doing good deeds aren't spotted; if they are, they're either unlucky, or they're doin' it wrong.

I, being young and not yet wise of the world, haven't personally seen anyone like this, but I have heard (with shame at the actions) and believe that they are true. But even though there are people who do this, there may be people who do otherwise. Not everyone is a hypocrite. The trouble is that it is hard to find people who aren't hypocrites.

 

(VictorianVivian)

By the way, I appreciate your respectful disagreement. It's very nice.

Thank you...

[HeatherMarie]

Honest questions I would like to ask anti-abortion posters:

 

Let me paint a scenario. You are married, financially sound, and you and your partner deliberately try to make a baby to add to your family. Before you even know if you are pregnant you've already had discussions about baby names and cooed over baby clothes. You find out that you are indeed pregnant, and have a big celebration.

And then THOUSANDS of STRANGERS from all over start hounding you, yelling at you, calling you horrible names and harassing you non-stop.... Because they say you MUST abort that child.

 

How would you feel in that situation? Would you be able to stand 9 months of constant threats and harassment brought on just because you *do* want that child?

 

How is that ANY different then the other side, except for circumstances beyond a woman's control? A young single woman with a part-time minimum-wage job because she has health issues that prevent anything more substantial. She's planning for the future, which includes many (already-expensive) doctor visits and medication so that she's stable enough to work full-time someday.

 

Then she gets raped. Violently, horribly traumatic. Maybe she actually *wants* to try and deal with the rape and have that child, maybe she *does* want a child, someday... But the physical and emotional toll on her body for 9 months puts her at a VERY large risk of death. Even if she's able to carry the child to term, how will she raise a baby on her current salary *and* have money to stay on her medication and stay healthy?

 

But if she even utters the word "abort", suddenly EVERYONE is judging her, calling her names, yelling at her, telling her how horrible and selfish she is because that unborn, rapist's child is SO much more important then her own life.

 

Just.... think about that. Please, take a moment and honestly think about that. That woman is me and I came *very* close to that very situation once.

 

 

Another question, or thing to think about:

 

Do YOU, personally, have the money to donate to every woman who wants to abort for financial reasons? If you so strongly believe that a woman should carry a fetus to term *no matter what*, then you must be willing to stand by your convictions right? You push those woman to bring that baby into this world, so you must be willing to pay for all those hospital bills and medications and *childcare* and things that the woman CANNOT AFFORD, right? ...... Right? Because that's what you want.

 

Are YOU, personally, going to adopt all those children that *would* have been aborted if YOU hadn't stopped those women? It seems more then a few people in this thread hand out the adoption option as a reason to have that child.... But who's going to make sure that child is safe, once it's actually born? Who's going to make sure it ends up in a safe, loving home, and NOT in one of the many, MANY abusive, disgusting, neglectful adoption/foster homes? Are you, personally, going to track that child throughout it's life to make sure that baby you saved actually *does* have a good life? Or is it just "HAVE THAT BABY, but then who knows what will happen to it later"?

 

edit: And to those who'll answer "I'm not forcing anyone to do anything"..... Oh but you are. Just look at the anti-abortion laws being shoved around in the US right now, and yes, anti-abortion activists *are* forcing their own beliefs on others.

Edited July 4, 2013 by Marie19R

[BlitzDrake]

Well if you want to go on the perspective everything is created for a purpose, there's herbs that were created or only use is to induce a miscarriage. Which people used in the past before hospitals,etc.

 

Anyways (not sure where I was going on the first part of my statements >_<) I have to agree with Derranged. I see a few arguments about how "It's not the baby's fault. (Trying to pass it off that this was your fault or you deserve to "deal with" being...a host) so why do you want to abort something that can't think for itself and is nothing but helpless....

 

Well...that's my point. It can't think or do anything inside of the host (woman) but suck up her nutrients, affect and damage her body and depending on their other state of being, mental, financial health. It has no ability to make decisions. So why are we going to elevate ITS life, that people don't know what it's like, even what gender it is at times, over a woman who has lived her life, has people that love her, and is still growing in her walk of life? So what if both can/will die in the process?

 

 

 

Also I like that you are not being hostile, rude, or calling people stupid over this. It's nice thank you, it shows maturity

Edited July 4, 2013 by BlightWyvern

[KageSora]

@KageSora, you may, but if there is any way that I can convince you that it is not just a parasite, I will; that is why there are still pro-lifers out there debating with the pro-choicers.

You won't.

 

I used to be pro-forced-birth, but then I had my eyes opened to what pregnancy can do to a person and how badly the adoption system needs reform (and I say this as an adoption success story). Now that I know what I do now, I absolutely CANNOT justify forcing one person to live a miserable life in hopes of another possibly having a decent life.

 

To TRULY be pro-life, you must try to give the mother AND the child equal consideration--not relegate the mother to broodmare status so she can birth a child she may not actually be capable of birthing--and you MUST take quality of life into account. Otherwise you're just pro-birth. Which is not the same thing.

 

I'm pro-choice because to me, caring for the woman and giving her the best care possible and giving her the best information so she can make the choice that is right for both her and the fetus, is the truly pro-life stance.

 

 

Besides, murder or not, parasite or not, I CANNOT handle a pregnancy therefore I would be getting an abortion no matter what. I'm not interested in breaking myself mentally and emotionally to give birth to a child I will never be fit to raise nor will I chuck it into a system where it may never get a decent home since. Nor will I dump it on my family to take care of, because that's not fair to anybody.

 

 

But the thing is, it's still bad to make the baby suffer for existing.

Forcing it to be born and then brought up in a home by a woman who never wanted it is making it suffer for existing. Forcing it to be born and then chucked into a system where it isn't properly loved or wanting is making it suffering for existing.

 

Preventing it's life from beginning is not making it suffer for existing--it is preventing it from ever knowing what it is to suffer or even exist.

[VictorianVivian]

(VictorianVivian)

I agree with that. I think that hypocrisy is also horrible, and if you want to see a change, go for it. I also know that bad deeds are easily sighted, whereas "normal" people doing good deeds aren't spotted; if they are, they're either unlucky, or they're doin' it wrong.

I, being young and not yet wise of the world, haven't personally seen anyone like this, but I have heard (with shame at the actions) and believe that they are true. But even though there are people who do this, there may be people who do otherwise. Not everyone is a hypocrite. The trouble is that it is hard to find people who aren't hypocrites.

 

(VictorianVivian)

Thank you...

What's interesting about this whole thing is that there are people on BOTH sides of the fence who are horrible, disgusting individuals. I have found that the ones who often shout the loudest are the most ignorant.

 

You and I are having a respectful discussion. I am certain that I am older than you, but age does not always make one wiser. Experience does. It's unfortunate that younger people are often labeled as "stupid" or "doin' it wrong" simply because of their age. I've met some very young people with very good things to say about both sides of this issue. I may not agree, but that doesn't mean the statements have no value.

 

Mocking someone else's stance does nothing.

 

Unfortunately, my experience with those who oppose abortion has been extremely negative. I've seen what happens to those poor women at clinics from the moment they get out of their cars until they come out again. It's horrible. I once saw a man turn on a picketer and inform her that they WANTED the baby, but that his wife had stage 4 cancer and the pregnancy would not only kill her, but the baby wouldn't make it to term, anyway. He wanted time what little time for the both of them. I just can't see that as murder. To be honest, I can't see it as murder at all, especially if the body is capable of spontaneous abortion on its own. I just do not view it as a "child."

 

Of course, you needn't believe what I believe. Life would be awfully boring if we all had the same opinions.