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 bring back cb prizes, or the raffle
Dragon_Arbock
Posted: Jan 18 2017, 10:49 PM


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QUOTE (aussieJJDude @ Jan 18 2017, 11:35 PM)
You do realise that being "naturally unlucky" is totally false? And if it were, how could "coding" be considered unlucky?

There is no true RNG. All RNGs are simply algorithms that can be predicted. Heck, Pokemon's RNG is very manipulable.
But I do not think random is fair regardless of if the RNG works or not.
Kovia
Posted: Jan 18 2017, 11:56 PM


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Oh my god... I just need to get this off my chest.

ANYTHING WILL CAUSE DRAMA AND NOTHING WILL BE 100% FAIR. DEAL WITH IT.

People will whine about not getting them, about there being too many of them, about getting spammed because they got one, about the trade market, SOMETHING. Human beings are whiny by nature.

It is impossible to be 100% fair unless we have slap one on literally every account. And then it'll still be unfair to new users who join after the give-out.

Don't use other countries as a defense to not give them to anyone. So people in <insert country here> won't be online during America's afternoon. It was fair to have the raffles during THE MIDDLE OF CHRISTMAS BREAK?!
This would go on for more than 24 hours, probably several days. If you can't get online in any way for an entire week, in an age where everyone and there cousin has smart phones, then it's your fault.

Having the raffles yearly was more fair than not at all because at least then active users still had a chance at them. I think only a couple times did a repeat winner happen. The very last raffle, you got entries into it based on your participation in that year's Christmas event.


Sorry for being rude but I'm getting fed up with the prize drama. People will never shut up about these things, whether they get given out or not. And half the reasons people keep bringing up here are just stupid.

Can we either just have them already or shut up about it? I'd be okay with not having one-- even though I do want one-- if people would just stop acting all hurt about it. It's not a personal insult you lost the raffle. It's also not a ticket to be a jerk.
Robot Chimera
Posted: Jan 19 2017, 01:31 AM


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QUOTE (Dragon_Arbock @ Jan 18 2017, 10:49 PM)
There is no true RNG. All RNGs are simply algorithms that can be predicted. Heck, Pokemon's RNG is very manipulable.
But I do not think random is fair regardless of if the RNG works or not.

Sorry, but that's really not a good example. The reason pokemon can be obtained through RNG is because the odds are precalculated and possible to change through your actions.

In pokemon RNG, you can exactly predict what outcomes will occur just based on things like the date, time, and frame of your game. DC however can't be predicted as easily, and the odds are not possible to manipulate.

The Raffle itself is fair. Even if the RNG is an algorithm, it is not in any way simple, and unlike Pokemon RNG, cannot be manipulated in your favor. You can increase your odds in raffles by getting more than one ticket, but you can never manipulate the odds to win a CB prize.

I would still prefer the Raffle to an in-cave drop or the store. Yes, it causes drama, but so does literally everything on this site. If you completely exclude an idea because it causes drama, then that means you have NO solution since literally every possible option will cause drama. No CB prizes? Drama. Store? Even more drama. In-cave drop? Extreme drama.

The Raffle may not be the BEST solution, but it is a POSSIBLE solution. And right now, there really isn't a "Best Solution".

Sure, i'd love them to appear in a holdiay event, and that's the option I support most. But I will not entirely exclude the raffle because "it creates drama", and until I see an actual reason that has nothing to do with drama on why the raffle is actually bad, I will continue to support that as my second choice.

This post has been edited by Robot Chimera on Jan 19 2017, 01:34 AM
Dragon_Arbock
Posted: Jan 19 2017, 01:47 AM


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I would have been completely fine with prize dragons if they were unbreedables. That way even though they were something not everyone could get, the people who have them couldn't gain massively just from having them- problem is right now they have a license to print money, as in, they can ask for whatever they want, because then can produce something nobody else ever can.
That advantage needs to be taken away. That is the unfair part. If they're going to be a normal, breedable dragon in every other regard, they should be obtainable as CBs by all.
Robot Chimera
Posted: Jan 19 2017, 01:49 AM


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QUOTE (Dragon_Arbock @ Jan 19 2017, 01:47 AM)
I would have been completely fine with prize dragons if they were unbreedables. That way even though they were something not everyone could get, the people who have them couldn't gain massively just from having them- problem is right now they have a license to print money, as in, they can ask for whatever they want, because then can produce something nobody else ever can.
That advantage needs to be taken away. That is the unfair part. If they're going to be a normal, breedable dragon in every other regard, they should be obtainable as CBs by all.

I'd rather have them as breedables, since at least I can GET them, even if they aren't CB.

What would be worse is having an ENTIRE DRAGON that NO ONE else could have.
Dragon_Arbock
Posted: Jan 19 2017, 01:52 AM


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QUOTE (Robot Chimera @ Jan 19 2017, 02:49 AM)
I'd rather have them as breedables, since at least I can GET them, even if they aren't CB.

What would be worse is having an ENTIRE DRAGON that NO ONE else could have.

That's not worse though- because at least then the owners couldn't produce things for no effort that earns them free CB Golds and Silvers. Owning a CB prize is like being a millionaire.
Not to mention there already are dragons we can't own, like spriters alts. I don't see people asking for everyone to have them.
Robot Chimera
Posted: Jan 19 2017, 01:55 AM


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QUOTE (Dragon_Arbock @ Jan 19 2017, 01:52 AM)
That's not worse though- because at least then the owners couldn't produce things for no effort that earns them free CB Golds and Silvers. Owning a CB prize is like being a millionaire.
Not to mention there already are dragons we can't own, like spriters alts. I don't see people asking for everyone to have them.

I've seen a few people who want spriters alts (mostly because of the fact they can't have them even though they didn't make the dragon)
And they're just recolors. They don't even pass down.

But for collection purposes, it's even worse to never get something at all, than to get something that isn't perfect.

That would be more like having spriters alts except the holiday dragons itself were never released - only the person who created Rosebuds ever got them, ect.
Dragon_Arbock
Posted: Jan 19 2017, 01:58 AM


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That doesn't make the fact that getting an ultra rare otherwise unobtainable dragon that you can breed for endless profit isn't a very bad thing.
It gives those players an unfair advantage.
And honestly for my collection purposes, I don't want a bunch of stairstep lineages, I want CBs or for there to be enough to reasonably make even gens out of them.
Robot Chimera
Posted: Jan 19 2017, 02:03 AM


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QUOTE (Dragon_Arbock @ Jan 19 2017, 01:58 AM)
That doesn't make the fact that getting an ultra rare otherwise unobtainable dragon that you can breed for endless profit isn't a very bad thing.
It gives those players an unfair advantage.
And honestly for my collection purposes, I don't want a bunch of stairstep lineages, I want CBs or for there to be enough to reasonably make even gens out of them.

I never said it wasn't wrong they had a monopoly on CB prizes. I just said it's better for them to be breedable than something no one except a few can ever get.

I want a re-release myself, but in a reasonable manner.
Dragon_Arbock
Posted: Jan 19 2017, 02:07 AM


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Well, I would rather the re-release not be a raffle, simply because this can happen;
https://dragcave.net/lineage/DAXfI
If the number being given out is so limited already, it's not helped when there can be repeat winners.
prpldrgnfr
Posted: Jan 19 2017, 02:48 AM


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Can we please just stop with the whole "prize owners have a printing press" bit? It's not like every egg they spit out is shiny if/when they do make one, trading is *not* as easy as some seem to think, and this whole attitude is why mine is essentially retired, thereby removing yet another from the gene pool. At this point I'd be more than happy to have the dratted things drop as blockers. dry.gif
Robot Chimera
Posted: Jan 19 2017, 03:07 AM


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QUOTE (prpldrgnfr @ Jan 19 2017, 02:48 AM)
Can we please just stop with the whole "prize owners have a printing press" bit? It's not like every egg they spit out is shiny if/when they do make one, trading is *not* as easy as some seem to think, and this whole attitude is why mine is essentially retired, thereby removing yet another from the gene pool. At this point I'd be more than happy to have the dratted things drop as blockers. dry.gif

Agreed. And mates that aren't holidays often just produce nothing, which makes 2G prizes even harder to get.
olympe
Posted: Jan 19 2017, 03:10 AM


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No, not every egg they produce is shiny - but I remember times where even 2nd gen prizefails went for a CB metal or more. And, if you're honest, if you had wanted to, you could have gotten everything every DC player could only dream of getting by trading your Drama offspring. (No offense meant. I'm not saying you did, nor did I say you weren't allowed to.)

But that is the most problematic thing about CB prizes: They still dominate the trading market, thereby affecting everyone on site, whether they like Drama dragons or not, much less try to get some. The fact is that Drama Dragons have been affecting DC in countless ways for years on end now, and most of them are anything but good. There're now exclusive dragons only a very small subset of players owns as CB, there's literally no way for everyone else to get them at all (as CB), they're shiny and at least uncommon (two traits which make them desirable), they dominate the trading market and thereby hamper other kinds of trades. Their sprites are gorgeous, another thing that makes them desirable, but it's very hard to create anything but stairstep or spiral lineages with them.

I think it's the Drama dragons' exclusivity that causes most of this, so I feel that this is what needs to go.
prpldrgnfr
Posted: Jan 19 2017, 03:26 AM


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QUOTE (olympe @ Jan 19 2017, 12:10 AM)
No, not every egg they produce is shiny - but I remember times where even 2nd gen prizefails went for a CB metal or more. And, if you're honest, if you had wanted to, you could have gotten everything every DC player could only dream of getting by trading your Drama offspring. (No offense meant. I'm not saying you did, nor did I say you weren't allowed to.)

But that is the most problematic thing about CB prizes: They still dominate the trading market, thereby affecting everyone on site, whether they like Drama dragons or not, much less try to get some. The fact is that Drama Dragons have been affecting DC in countless ways for years on end now, and most of them are anything but good. There're now exclusive dragons only a very small subset of players owns as CB, there's literally no way for everyone else to get them at all (as CB), they're shiny and at least uncommon (two traits which make them desirable), they dominate the trading market and thereby hamper other kinds of trades. Their sprites are gorgeous, another thing that makes them desirable, but it's very hard to create anything but stairstep or spiral lineages with them.

I think it's the Drama dragons' exclusivity that causes most of this, so I feel that this is what needs to go.

Oh, I probably could have, and no offense taken. smile.gif

I know Dramas have been problem children in *lots* of ways, I'm just not clever enough to come up with any suggestions or believe me, I would have. I would just like to see discussion about it without every other post saying we've had a gold mine for years, it's not fair we get everything we want.

And that's why I'm at the let them drop as blockers stage, but then it'd be different Drama.
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