ANSWERED:bring back cb prizes

[Jazeki]

 

Overall, I like the idea of bringing back prize dragons. I'd rather they NOT be super easy to get however. They were originally meant for a lottery and whatever means would be used to obtain one in the future should make players feel like they've won mega millions. Or that they've accomplished a great feat that deserves rewarding.

 

They weren't meant for a lottery (the raffle) initially. They were given as "prizes" (hence the emphasis) for winning the decorating contest. See the tree decorating contest.

 

Edit: I see you were here for it, but this is just a link as reminder to the people who are newer. (Your prize is the result of a lottery, though and not a subjective vote.)

Edited December 16, 2016 by Jazeki

[Daydreamer09]

They weren't meant for a lottery (the raffle) initially. They were given as "prizes" (hence the emphasis) for winning the decorating contest. See the tree decorating contest.

Hm, I forgot about that event.

 

Still, they were used as an award for people who put a lot of time and effort into the event. And there was luck involved as well as your tree had to be judged and you had to be placed into the top 30.

[Jazeki]

To me, the award for time and effort was the badge as everyone who participated in the event got a tiny tree, not a prize. Otherwise, everyone would have gotten a prize and we wouldn't see arguments about how users have to be put through hoops to get their hands on a CB prize that wasn't one that came from the 2014 event or earlier.

 

Having the luck (or skill) to get voted into the top 30 to win a prize was something, but I wouldn't put it on the same level as having the luck to win a raffle.

 

Edit: StormBirdRising, I expressed earlier the disadvantages of releasing prizes in-cave during a holiday event. Feel free to have a look at page 3 where Shokomon suggested it. Others share similar sentiments.

Edited December 16, 2016 by Jazeki

[StormBirdRising]

I'd like to see prize dragons dropping in the biomes with the holiday eggs, not as frequently as the holidays, maybe a few prizes a day in random biomes. Actually I'd like to see anything implemented that would give me even a snowball's chance to get a prize dragon. Anything.

[Daydreamer09]

To me, the award for time and effort was the badge as everyone who participated in the event got a tiny tree, not a prize. Otherwise, everyone would have gotten a prize and we wouldn't see arguments about how users have to be put through hoops to get their hands on a CB prize that wasn't one that came from the 2014 event or earlier.

 

Having the luck (or skill) to get voted into the top 30 to win a prize was something, but I wouldn't put it on the same level as having the luck to win a raffle.

 

Edit: StormBirdRising, I expressed earlier the disadvantages of releasing prizes in-cave during a holiday event. Feel free to have a look at page 3 where Shokomon suggested it. Others share similar sentiments.

But obtaining the tree badge really didn't take a lot of effort if you consider that to obtain it you had to have popped in to receive only one set of ornaments. To get all the ornaments sets you had to pop in every single day and that merely gave you a much larger selection in aesthetic choices.

 

And I wouldn't exactly downplay that the lottery was all luck. Players who participated in multiple lotteries as well as obtained all the tickets they could had higher chances to win.

(Not that I want the lottery back. From what I recall hearing, it spawned a lot of multi-scrollers. Bleh.)

 

To better describe how I feel prizes should be given out... Getting ahold of a prize dragon should make you feel like Leonardo DiCaprio finally winning an Oscar.

[Pokemonfan13]

The first time they're given out, it WOULD feel like that to a lot of people, even if a very large percentage of the active players got one too. Just the fact of having a CB would be special, even if trade values for 2nd gens were suddenly at a much more reasonable level because of it.

 

But I really don't see the need to keep them that special.

[Daydreamer09]

But I really don't see the need to keep them that special.

Maybe I'm weird. I just don't think that the trade value of 2nd gens should be the determining factor in making them more common than what I'm describing. I've had a harder time getting a 2nd gen thunder from fleshcrowne and I value that guy way higher than I do 2nd gen prizes. (Mostly because he's 2yrs worth of breeding attempts).

 

We call them "prize" dragons so there needs to be that specialness about them. Especially considering that DC is a game and there should be some really high reaching goals for players. I want it to be possible for everyone to get their hands on a cb prize, but not for prizes to lose that magic.

[Pokemonfan13]

We call them "prize" dragons as a category because that's what they are/were. If they were handed out more freely, they still have their specific names: Tinsels and Shimmers. There are ways to do it where they could still be considered "prizes" too. Handing them out for completing the holiday event (rather than as a "participation" thing), or introducing a game that would let you earn them (a "prize" for winning the game). But just because they were prizes in the past doesn't mean they have to be prizes in the future.

 

I never really intended to bring the value of 2nd gens into it, just trying to say that people would still value their CBs even if they don't wield the power that they used to by producing incredible trading fodder.

[Jazeki]

But obtaining the tree badge really didn't take a lot of effort if you consider that to obtain it you had to have popped in to receive only one set of ornaments. To get all the ornaments sets you had to pop in every single day and that merely gave you a much larger selection in aesthetic choices.

 

And I wouldn't exactly downplay that the lottery was all luck. Players who participated in multiple lotteries as well as obtained all the tickets they could had higher chances to win.

(Not that I want the lottery back. From what I recall hearing, it spawned a lot of multi-scrollers. Bleh.)

 

To better describe how I feel prizes should be given out... Getting ahold of a prize dragon should make you feel like Leonardo DiCaprio finally winning an Oscar.

I did everything that you described (even tried for those extra chances at raffle tickets that one year) and it seems like you're downplaying what people who didn't get the dragons, but got the badge did--even if it's unintentional. Getting a CB prize (or HM) would make many people feel like Leo did. I want access to a CB prize more than I care about trading abilities that come with 2nd gens.

 

My sentiments are very much the same as PF13.

Edited December 16, 2016 by Jazeki

[StormBirdRising]

I agree with Jazeki and PF13. A prize dragon, or a tinsel or shimmer, or whatever you want to call it, is unique and special to the owner, the same way a diamond ring is special to its owner. I just don't see any downside at all to each player being able to get a prize dragon or at least trying to get one. Those of us who don't have one should at least be given the chance to try to get one.

[Daydreamer09]

I did everything that you described (even tried for those extra chances at raffle tickets that one year) and it seems like you're downplaying what people who didn't get the dragons, but got the badge did--even if it's unintentional.  Getting a CB prize (or HM) would make many people feel like Leo did. I want access to a CB prize more than I care about trading abilities that come with 2nd gens.

Yeah, it wasn't intentional. I didn't get every single raffle ticket possible for the prize I won. So I would honesty say, dedication-wise there were people much more deserving of my little guy than I am. Sorry if I upset you. I guess I was just trying to say that there were a combination of factors.

Again though, the lottery system's not something I like nor want.

 

I agree with Jazeki and PF13. A prize dragon, or a tinsel or shimmer, or whatever you want to call it, is unique and special to the owner, the same way a diamond ring is special to its owner. I just don't see any downside at all to each player being able to get a prize dragon or at least trying to get one. Those of us who don't have one should at least be given the chance to try to get one.

I never said players shouldn't be able to get CB prizes. That's not my wish at all.

 

How common would you like CB prizes to be? And how easy should it be? That's mainly what concerns me right now. Gauging against other dragons I'd like them to be along similar levels as neglecteds, but... maybe a step down in difficulty. Those are around year-round and you have to work hard to reach certain conditions to get them.

Edited December 16, 2016 by Daydreamer09

[olympe]

Well, even if every player (who participated in a certain holiday event) got exactly one CB prize, they'd still be special and rare. Because there are 6 different forms to collect, it takes at least 6 years to get them all. Twice as long for a male and female of each.

 

Which means that, as far as trading goes, many of us would do 2nd gen prize swaps to create all kinds of lineages, including checkers. Because that's the only way for a long time to come that we have to get all kinds of lineages going. And a lot of us do want to make special lineages.

 

Of course, the "worth" of 2nd gen prizes would go down considerably, but in my opinion, that is a good thing. Because 2nd gen prizes have been dominating the trades for way too long a time already. Plus, it means that even those players who don't have a CB prize (yet) can trade for a 2nd gen with relative ease. (Meaning: Without the pressure to be able to catch at least one, if not multiple CB golds. We all know what that means.)

[Fuzzbucket]

 

But I really don't see the need to keep them that special.

So very this. And that tree contest was almost worse than the raffles.

 

They have been "that special" for quite long enough.

[Jazeki]

Yeah, it wasn't intentional. I didn't get every single raffle ticket possible for the prize I won. So I would honesty say, dedication-wise there were people much more deserving of my little guy than I am. Sorry if I upset you. I guess I was just trying to say that there were a combination of factors.

Again though, the lottery system's not something I like nor want.

 

 

I never said players shouldn't be able to get CB prizes. That's not my wish at all.

 

How common would you like CB prizes to be? And how easy should it be? That's mainly what concerns me right now. Gauging against other dragons I'd like them to be along similar levels as neglecteds, but... maybe a step down in difficulty. Those are around year-round and you have to work hard to reach certain conditions to get them.

You didn't upset me. Don't worry.

 

I would like them on par with CB holidays, GONs, alts, or uncommon because they already breed that way.

 

You only get CB holidays once a year. GONs and alts take effort. Mostly, I would like them like CB holidays because people seem to want to have the prizes as a seasonal thing.

[Fuzzbucket]

You only get CB holidays once a year. GONs and alts take effort. Mostly, I would like them like CB holidays because people seem to want to have the prizes as a seasonal thing.

They do? I don't - holidays are a bit of a rush as it is. I'd far rather have ways to earn them year round. See under trader's canyon!

[Jazeki]

They do? I don't - holidays are a bit of a rush as it is. I'd far rather have ways to earn them year round. See under trader's canyon!

Well, I mean if they're tied to participation of some kind. :3

 

And I was only talking in terms and of how rare holidays are if they can only be gotten once a year.

 

No dropping during a holiday though.

[Bison]

I'm still reading through the thread, but right off the bat I absolutely do not support this suggestion.

 

Before I won I didn't even know there was a raffle. I had no idea what Prize dragons were. I'd never even seen them. I only participated to get rid of those annoying mana crystals that interrupted AP hunting. It was obvious to everyone who saw me post and I was mobbed by a lot of nasty people out to use me because I didn't know better. Not to mention all the anger, resentment, and attempted guilt tripping from some people who wanted to win for years directed at winners. DC will never be the same for me... and not in a good way. I wouldn't wish that experience on anyone. Its overwhelming. Its stressful. Its not enjoyable for anyone in the equation.

 

However I don't think Prizes should be handed out like candy to every single person who makes a minimal effort to participate. I've never felt any of the events were actually hard. The RPG game was a little bit but people always posted or PMed the answers/help/advice to anyone who needed it. The real challenge is working things out if you have things to do for holidays. It would be total chaos if suddenly everyone was handed a Prize for not much work. They would have no value (I do not just mean trade value) overnight.

 

As it is right now, there's nothing to really work for on DC aside from a small handful of rare breeds unless you make up your own goals. We shouldn't take more of that away and give users less to work for. Without things to accomplish a game is completely pointless and boring. Instead we should give people more to work for and accomplish in a reasonable way that still requires dedication, like the store suggestion. That would allow anyone to have a Prize if they were willing to put in the work, keep goals for users to work towards, and allow Prizes to retain value without the frustrating random aspect of things like raffles.

[Sheriziya]

I've read through all this topic, have seen old arguments from older topics return and I've seen new arguments and ideas. In the past I, Naruhina and several others, argued/fought quite hard for having the Tinsels and Shimmers in some form released in the cave. We're almost two years after the last suggestions were made on that particular topic. I vaguely remember a similar suggestion (tying it to participating in the Christmas event) been shot down back then (I'd have to read through the 23 pages of that topic and all other linked topics (all listed in the first post of that topic) from that time to see what the actual suggestion back then was).

 

But, like I said we're two years further down the road and maybe the community has changed enough to make things more acceptable right now.

 

So, without further ado, here's my two cents:

- NO to raffles with The Tinsels and Shimmers as prizes. I'm not going repeat all the arguments I listed in the other topic, though I still stand by them, especially since we took a LOT of groups into consideration in that discussion. TL;DR: read the posts I linked.

- YES to raffles with honorable mentions for CB hybrids and CB holidays (NO "prizes" though!!!)

- Certainly YES to the option of earning CB "prizes" through the Trader's Canyon (still have to read through the entire topic, but I like the basic idea I read about it, I'll comment there since I do remember TJ liking to keep things tidy and separated )

- Partially YES to the option of earning one of the prizes each year (your choice) for participating in the holiday event as in visiting the event page. Tech difficulties shouldn't be a reason why you couldn't have a shot at the dragon. If it's solely for visiting the event page, I think that is even manageable by those who don't have much time during the holidays. I've seen so many complaining every year before the event starts they don't have time to participate in it all and it's not fair, etc....(fill in the blanks) and yet every time they manage to play all the games, get the new release dragons, catch old holidays, etc. So I'm kinda taking a statement about lack of time during the holiday with a bit of a grain of salt. (It's not my intention to hurt people with this statement, but I see it every year....) Hence my "partially yes".

 

[Fuzzbucket]

No raffles with any dragon that cannot be obtained in any other way -as in CB hybrids or CB past holidays.

[olympe]

I've read through all this topic, have seen old arguments from older topics return and I've seen new arguments and ideas. In the past I, Naruhina and several others, argued/fought quite hard for having the Tinsels and Shimmers in some form released in the cave. We're almost two years after the last suggestions were made on that particular topic. I vaguely remember a similar suggestion (tying it to participating in the Christmas event) been shot down back then (I'd have to read through the 23 pages of that topic and all other linked topics (all listed in the first post of that topic) from that time to see what the actual suggestion back then was).

 

But, like I said we're two years further down the road and maybe the community has changed enough to make things more acceptable right now.

 

So, without further ado, here's my two cents:

- NO to raffles with The Tinsels and Shimmers as prizes. I'm not going repeat all the arguments I listed in the other topic, though I still stand by them, especially since we took a LOT of groups into consideration in that discussion. TL;DR: read the posts I linked.

- YES to raffles with honorable mentions for CB hybrids and CB holidays (NO "prizes" though!!!)

- Certainly YES to the option of earning CB "prizes" through the Trader's Canyon (still have to read through the entire topic, but I like the basic idea I read about it, I'll comment there since I do remember TJ liking to keep things tidy and separated )

- Partially YES to the option of earning one of the prizes each year (your choice) for participating in the holiday event as in visiting the event page. Tech difficulties shouldn't be a reason why you couldn't have a shot at the dragon. If it's solely for visiting the event page, I think that is even manageable by those who don't have much time during the holidays. I've seen so many complaining every year before the event starts they don't have time to participate in it all and it's not fair, etc....(fill in the blanks) and yet every time they manage to play all the games, get the new release dragons, catch old holidays, etc. So I'm kinda taking a statement about lack of time during the holiday with a bit of a grain of salt. (It's not my intention to hurt people with this statement, but I see it every year....) Hence my "partially yes".

This, mostly. Although I feel strongly about not allowing CB hybrids as "raffle prize fodder", either. Because if they will be handed out sparsely, the CB hybrids will become the new ultra-rares everyone wants offspring of - and thereby turn into the new "prize" dragons. It will be the same drama as we have and have had with shimmers and tinsels, just with different breeds.

 

However, I would support a raffle where you can win old holidays. Most in-cave holiday dragons are available in some quantity, plus you can only breed offspring of the same breed once a year, so the trading market won't be affected for more than a couple of weeks by this.

Edited December 16, 2016 by olympe

[Ashywolf]

This is always a messy topic for games because ideally you want all players to enjoy the game and have fair access to all the features. What's the point of a cool update if only a few people get to enjoy it? That's less of a case here since you can still breed prizes and pass the dragon species itself around.

 

There is however an imbalance because CB prize offspring is extremely valuable. You are giving a small percent of players a much different experience. These players have access to CB metals, high value trades, and IOUs that are very difficult, potentially time consuming or impossible for others.

 

I think of it as money. Everyone has money, so it isn't like one group of players has a unique currency. But that small group of players has the potential to earn much more money than everyone else, with minimal effort.

 

It's not a question of exclusivity, but ease of access to more difficult game features (i.e. more valuable dragon breeds or lineages).

Edited December 16, 2016 by Ashywolf

[Jazeki]

If a raffle does come back (which I hope is not the route that TJ chooses), it should have everything that the very first had: prizes and HMs (including holidays and hybrids). The HMs are already the ultra rare breeds, just the focus isn't on them as it is the prizes. They are another example of "well, too late now" that shouldn't be ignored.

[Obscure_Trash]

I know there's a lot of negative emotions surrounding raffles, so out of curiosity, would you feel just as much upset/frustration/etc. if there were multiple raffles dispersed throughout the year (I support raffles simply because we've already had them and I think they're a good mechanism for distributing prize dragons, but still, only one a year is pretty stagnant)?

 

I know there was an old "more than one raffle a year" thread, but I'm interested in more current opinions on it. ^^

[Fuzzbucket]

I thought tj had nixed any more cb hybrids....

 

Eta @ sock. Yes. I never want to see another raffle with any dragon that can't be got in other ways. I would only feel at all OK if they offered things like cb golds as prizes. There should never be a situation where we have to hope against hope to win a raffle as the only way to get something. If we had the store, I'd be OK with raffles to earn you extra shards or whatever the currency is to be called.

Edited December 16, 2016 by fuzzbucket

[Bison]

I agree with fuzzbucket. Raffles can be quite frustrating and disappointing at the best of times, but on DC its more like the worst of times. In my opinion its been proven that raffles for exclusive things like CB Prizes do not work on Dragon Cave. It doesn't fit the style of the game to me (although raffles for non-exclusives would) and the anger, bullying, and harassment that blows up the forums is just way too much. We don't need that when it can easily be avoided by implementing a fairer system of CB Prize distribution where doing X will get you one eventually.