ANSWERED:bring back cb prizes

[cyradis4]

I know there's a lot of negative emotions surrounding raffles, so out of curiosity, would you feel just as much upset/frustration/etc. if there were multiple raffles dispersed throughout the year (I support raffles simply because we've already had them and I think they're a good mechanism for distributing prize dragons, but still, only one a year is pretty stagnant)?

 

I know there was an old "more than one raffle a year" thread, but I'm interested in more current opinions on it. ^^

After the way the last raffles were implemented, I do not trust that any further raffles would be implemented such that they wouldn't cause far more harm than good.

 

In addition, I dislike in general a game mechanic / dragon that is placed into the hands of such a limited base. I would vastly prefer something where all users could earn the prizes and not have to either compete for them, or depend on blind chance.

 

Next, too many of the Prizes wound up on burned scrolls. To me, that's because the nature of the blind draw favors those who can enter more times. But if you have to actually play on a particular account in order to build up the currency.... Any given person only has so much time they can play the game. It will not eliminate that sort of cheating, but it will happen a lot less frequently than happens with blind draws.

 

Lastly.... On another site I'm on, blind draws are being badly abused to favor a few friends of Staff. I highly doubt that would happen here on DC, but the point is.... any sort of blind draw is open to that sort of problem or perception. I'd rather just avoid the whole thing and give people prizes as a goal to work toward in some way.

 

And finally lastly.... I still have a sour taste in my mouth from the last Raffles, and what it did to the community and the trade market. I don't want them to come back because of that association.

 

Cheers!

C4.

[HeatherMarie]

Eta @ sock. Yes. I never want to see another raffle with any dragon that can't be got in other ways. I would only feel at all OK if they offered things like cb golds as prizes. There should never be a situation where we have to hope against hope to win a raffle as the only way to get something. If we had the store, I'd be OK with raffles to earn you extra shards or whatever the currency is to be called.

This. This. This.

 

I wouldn't support raffles coming back no matter how many there were.... Unless there were, like, 50% of the userbase who would win 'prizes' every single time. Raffles with such a small size as it used to be? Hell no. Never. No matter how many there were. It's just not fair.

 

I have Tinsels and Shimmers, lovely 6+gens that I love and adore. I have nothing to lose or gain in this topic because I don't care about CBs. But it's the principle of the thing. I *never* liked raffles because I personally don't believe that there should *be* a dragon that can only ever be gotten by chance, especially such a tiny itty bitty chance. Dragons should be worked for. You hunt the cave or the AP, sometimes for hours, sometimes for months, sometimes for years. You raise enough of other breeds that you can trade for that dragon you want. I don't think it's fair that there remains a dragon that NO ONE can work towards. No one can plan for. No one can do anything to *get* it except pray that they win the dice roll in a raffle.

 

I am all for the store, in which we can *earn* currency/shards/whatever in order to get a prize. I am all for prizes being given out to people who *earn* it by logging in during events.

[Jazeki]

TJ did nix CB hybrids, but that still doesn't stop me from hoping they come back. Because even though he said they should never have existed in the first place, they do.

 

I'm iffy about multiple, more frequent raffles. If they were frequent enough that people would lose interest in having to cheat or badger their way into a CB or 2nd gen prize, then sure. (Like a raffle per season plus a DC birthday raffle.) Also, I still support raffle prizes of all kinds being locked to the winning scrolls.

[olympe]

I know there's a lot of negative emotions surrounding raffles, so out of curiosity, would you feel just as much upset/frustration/etc. if there were multiple raffles dispersed throughout the year (I support raffles simply because we've already had them and I think they're a good mechanism for distributing prize dragons, but still, only one a year is pretty stagnant)?

 

I know there was an old "more than one raffle a year" thread, but I'm interested in more current opinions on it. ^^

I hate raffles with a passion. I actually dislike all kinds of games that rely too much on chance.

I'd hate it to have one raffle a year, and I'd hate three or more raffles a year even more because the drama wouldn't ever stop that way.

 

I honestly dislike the possibility that some people may win time and time again, while others don't win at all. Especially with something as unique as a CB prize.

 

If, however, you offer me an option to work towards the achievable goal of doing X (and Y and Z, with no element of chance included) to be guaranteed a reward in the form of a prize, I'd be all for it. Even if it takes years. Because this kind of system is reliable. Chance is anything but.

[Pokemonfan13]

It IS possible to add a little code into the system to prevent people from winning multiple times, at least prize dragon level winning. Because I agree, someone walking out of the raffle with multiple prizes when other people have none IS unfair. But it also would be unfair to make a HM winner ineligible to ever win a prize.

 

But I agree, a system where you earn the prize, as long as it's not by raising dragons, is preferable to more raffles.

Edited December 17, 2016 by Pokemonfan13

[pollyfirstfirst]

This topic has been of high debate lately, I have been keeping an eye on it for a few days, and while I personally haven't been here for a raffle, I honestly do think we should just keep the system we have now. Or maybe we could something similar to summoning GoNs to prize dragons. Distributing too much would completely ruin the rarity tiers, so I don't really know.

[BlueMint]

Ooookkkaaaay... Ive been gone for like two years and just recently came back.

Am I reading this wrong or is the raffle no more?!

[purplehaze]

Ooookkkaaaay... Ive been gone for like two years and just recently came back.

Am I reading this wrong or is the raffle no more?!

There was no raffle last year. No announcement that it was ended or anything --- it just didn't happen.

[Pokemonfan13]

This topic has been of high debate lately, I have been keeping an eye on it for a few days, and while I personally haven't been here for a raffle, I honestly do think we should just keep the system we have now. Or maybe we could something similar to summoning GoNs to prize dragons. Distributing too much would completely ruin the rarity tiers, so I don't really know.

So you're one of the people who think it would be a bad thing to decrease the value of 2nd gen prizes? Mind discussing that?

 

My personal opinion is that the prizes should be valued for themselves, for being beautiful creations, not for being founts of valuable things in trade for the 2nd gens. As people have pointed out, 2nd gen prizes have rather completely messed up the trading market, with anything valuable wanting a 2nd gen prize in return. And the fact of the value of 2nd gens, and even 2nd gen kin, makes building anything but a stairstep or spiral or eventually arrowhead lineage all but impossible. So for me, bringing the value down by making CBs more available would only solve problems. Sure, it would decrease the value of existing dragons, but the people with CBs have had a minimum of 2 years to exploit them, and the value of 3rd gens have already gone down very significantly. (I'm sure there would still be purists that would value "the originals" over the ones obtained after they became more common)

[diaveborn]

Yeah, I definitely don't mind people in games having things I don't have, and don't mind the idea of a raffle in general, but when it affects so much of the rest of trading, it seems a bit extreme. I like the idea of being able to earn things, partly because I think earning is preferable to raffles and partly because it would, at least for me, give a feel of there being more to do on the site.

[Guillotine]

I've traded an arm and a leg for second gen prizes and I still feel that the trading market as a whole would only be benefited by making them more common. If the trading market weren't impacted so badly, I probably wouldn't care as much about their rarity. But it is, so I do.

[olympe]

This topic has been of high debate lately, I have been keeping an eye on it for a few days, and while I personally haven't been here for a raffle, I honestly do think we should just keep the system we have now. Or maybe we could something similar to summoning GoNs to prize dragons. Distributing too much would completely ruin the rarity tiers, so I don't really know.

The "system" we have right now is "nothing" right now, because there currently isn't any way to get CB prizes.

 

Besides, the rarity tiers got messed up by prize dragons in the first place.

[Eos]

I don't miss the raffle, but I do think that CB prizes should be reintroduced into the game somehow. And if that happens, I hope they'll be given away in a fashion similar to what was suggested in the first post or through the proposed store (even though I wouldn't buy one personally). I just don't care for the raffle nor what said raffle did to the trading market.

[StormBirdRising]

 

How common would you like CB prizes to be? And how easy should it be? That's mainly what concerns me right now.

The way I would bring them back is like this: They would appear in the biomes like the leetle trees appear, extremely rarely, they would be coded like the leetle trees so each player can only have one from the biomes. At least we will all have a chance to get one.

 

Additonally, I would have some way for players to get other prize dragons besides the one they will get in the biomes; a raffle, a game, a random drawing, collecting X amount of some other dragon, breeding X amount o some other dragon, something would be fun and/or challenging. Something that would allow players to have a chance at getting a prize dragon.

[Fuzzbucket]

Lord, even in raffle days you weren't limited to one. No to that idea.

 

We'd still have a chance to get them if they were in the store - or even if they showed up occasionally in the biomes.

[Sheriziya]

This, mostly. Although I feel strongly about not allowing CB hybrids as "raffle prize fodder", either. Because if they will be handed out sparsely, the CB hybrids will become the new ultra-rares everyone wants offspring of - and thereby turn into the new "prize" dragons. It will be the same drama as we have and have had with shimmers and tinsels, just with different breeds.

 

However, I would support a raffle where you can win old holidays. Most in-cave holiday dragons are available in some quantity, plus you can only breed offspring of the same breed once a year, so the trading market won't be affected for more than a couple of weeks by this.

I wonder if that would happen with the CB Hybrids. Did the winners of those get that many requests and harassment in the past? I don't remember it, but of course it doesn't mean it didn't happen

If it indeed happened, than CB Hybrids would be better off in the Trader's Canyon as well and the raffle could be limited to "ordinary" things like CB rares, like Golds and Silvers and such.

 

The way I would bring them back is like this:  They would appear in the biomes like the leetle trees appear, extremely rarely, they would be coded like the leetle trees so each player can only have one from the biomes. At least we will all have a chance to get one.

Yes and No:

Yes to release them in the cave, but I'm afraid that ship sailed a long time ago (just a feeling I have, can't speak for TJ here). Like I said, I, Naruhina and several others fought hard for this, we even had made a complete schedule to include new prize dragons like pygmies and such. But a final suggestion was never agreed upon.

 

No for an in-cave release like the leetle tree. That would be too rare and not fair to those who don't have the time/tech possibilities to get the dragon. If it's released in the cave, please release it with a more common rarity, perhaps like the metallics or maybe more common than that.

 

[Fuzzbucket]

I wonder if that would happen with the CB Hybrids. Did the winners of those get that many requests and harassment in the past? I don't remember it, but of course it doesn't mean it didn't happen

If it indeed happened, than CB Hybrids would be better off in the Trader's Canyon as well and the raffle could be limited to "ordinary" things like CB rares, like Golds and Silvers and such.

I think we've already been told no CB hybrids. But I don't think people get their knickers as twisted about those. They never look right in a lineage, no matter what you do !

[Jazeki]

I've only seen four leetle trees all year.

 

Also, wouldn't a user have a chance to catch all 6 variants in the biomes even if they only got one through the raffle?

 

Edit: My reply was to stormbird to avoid confusion.

Edited December 18, 2016 by Jazeki

[Sheriziya]

I think we've already been told no CB hybrids. But I don't think people get their knickers as twisted about those. They never look right in a lineage, no matter what you do !

Ah, I think I missed that somewhere.

[Jazeki]

Ah, I think I missed that somewhere.

I forget which thread, but TJ's reasoning was they never should have existed in the first place, so they won't be coming back.

[Sazandora]

No more raffles, please. The trade market's been nothing but a gigantic mess ever since the Tinsels and Shimmerscales were released, where everyone and their mother demanding 2g:s for just about everything under the sun and nothing else. I'm sick and tired of that .

[Shokomon]

Honestly, I'm starting to think that just releasing prizes into the biomes as a normal rare would be the best way to go.

 

Not only does it require very little adjusting by the fanbase, as biome release is a normal part of the game, it will also be the easiest for TJ to code.

 

The store idea is nice, but will probably be a couple years before it would even begin to be released. TJ will probably have to write the code from scratch. (And from my understanding he does Dragon Cave coding alone and on the side as he has an actual job.)

- There's also the issue that anyone who play too infrequently to rack up points for the store system may never benefit from the store, and DC is a game you can just drop and pick whenever. It's very casual.

- It doesn't tie to the prize aspect of the dragons, either.

- Also, for this idea to work, you need in-game currency to be implemented, the, an in-game store, and then, for the prizes to be added to the shop.

- We don't even know if we will actually Get the store. It's only a suggestion at the moment. And those can sit for Years. If you want CB Prizes sooner rather than later, then, you probably should avoid the store option.

 

And from what I read, there is a good deal of hate for the raffles, which rely solely on chance, happened once a year, and gave out too few prizes. Raffles are too random, too infrequent, and too little reward.

 

There is the suggestion of tying them to the Holiday event completion, but if you miss the event or can't complete it, you are out of luck until next year. And unlike holiday dragons who can be caught in multiples, and then, traded and gifted, you can only get one prize at a time this way. No one will be trading or giving away a once a year dragon you only get one of.

 

And while I also like the BSA idea and sugested it myself, there is the fact that BSA's are tied to specific dragons. And if you don't like whatever dragon that has the "Prize BSA," you are stuck collecting dragons you don't want for a prize that may take a good bit to get, if you get it at all. (*Looks a the failed Summon thread*)

 

Then there is the suggestion of tying prizes to breeding/raising dragons. That would force people into certain play styles to get prizes, and one thing about dragon cave is it's relatively easy to play and play however you want. You want an army of Skywings, you can have that army. If you exactly One sprite for each species, you can do that to. There is no punishment for playing that way.

- Tying the prizes to a number of dragons may force people to radically change thier style of play to get those cb dragons, especially because there wouldn't be another way TO get CB prizes.

- Also, according to the wiki, there 189 different breeds/Species available in Dragon Cave. If you assume they all have a Female Adult, a Male Adult, a Female S2 Hatchling, a Male S2 Hatchling, and a S1 Hatchling, (which they don't), you would have 945 individual sprites to collect. And an accurate number has to account for Single Gender breeds, Non-Dimorphic vs Dimorphic breeds, Ungendered dragons, Non-Dragons, Alternate sprites, and Breed Variants. It probably isn't over 1500 sprites.

- There are people who will never reach 1000 dragons depending on their play style. And may never get prizes if they are tied too high numbers of breeding/raising.

 

Oh course, releasing the dragons to the biomes is hardly fair itself. People with poor internet connection, older generations of computers, or just poor relexes/hand-eye coordination/physical limitations will have a hard time (possibly extremely so) catching rares.

- But that's a problem for ANY rare. In fact, it's an aspect of the game itself. Short of redesigning the game entirely, there's no real way to change that.

- Heck, I've only ever caught one CB rare. The rest (including my prizes) I have were gifts or AP rescues or bred from one of the first two.

- And because it's a common issue, the fanbase has long developed ways around that. (Trading, gifting, Rewards for player held events, Abandoning, etc.)

- CB Prizes would become available to anyone who could catch them, and thus, more available in general.

- Players will just have to adapt to what they already know how to deal with.

 

Of course, there are all my opinions. Everyone has a right to their own thoughts.

 

Honestly, anything will work as long as the prizes Come Back. Because right now, there is no way to get CB's at all.

 

How many sets of prizes were given out again? I want to do so rudimentary math.

 

Edit: I looked up and there are 840 Prize Dragons, 420 Tinsels (Gold: 70, Silver: 140, Bronze: 210) and 420 Shimmer-Scales (Gold: 70, Silver: 140, Bronze: 210).

 

 

Edited December 18, 2016 by Shokomon

[CNR4806]

It would be cool to have the raffle again, but I disagree for the idea that everyone can get a prize dragon. I'd keep the same system we had, so the dragons would still be rare.

I'm of the exact opposite opinion.

 

The raffles (as well as the original prize contest) wreaked havoc to the game's trade market, its effect still very much present today. What we need is to retire the raffles entirely and de-special-snowflake the prize dragons.

 

On the other hand, doing a simple, no-brain-required event to get a prize is also too much, albeit in the opposite direction. The "shop" suggestion is the most sane one I've seen thus far.

[Shokomon]

If you're willing to wait for the shop, and pray that TJ actually implements it, yea.

 

I'm not going for the store option until I see a "Coming Soon" thread for the Store in the News Forum.

 

On a side note:

 

I looked it up, and there are 840 Prize Dragons, 420 Tinsels (Gold: 70, Silver: 140, Bronze: 210) and 420 Shimmer-Scales (Gold: 70, Silver: 140, Bronze: 210).

 

And since there is no way to know how many people are actually on Dragon Cave, I'm going to take the registered number of players on the forum and assume it's that.

 

So we have 840 people out of 77,995 players with CB Prize Dragons, or 1.08% of the playerbase with CB Prizes. This is also assuming no burnt scrolls released cb prizes, or killed cb prizes.

 

Yea, it's very little wonder why 2nd gens Prizes are so absurdly high valued, and why we need more CB's.

 

Now, if anyone knows the actual number of people playing Dragon Cave, please tell me, so I can fix my math.

[cyradis4]

10k played the Christmas Tree Game in 2010.

 

Also note that of those prizes that were supposed to be handed out.... we have heard that not only are a number on burned scrolls but that not all were claimed. So the actual number of prizes is an unknown and unknowable number less than the theoretical maximum.

 

Cheers!

C4.