The Fifth Element Lineage

[Fiona]

I didn't find what birdz posted about their breeding but what I did find seems to agree.

 

It may take a bit to get a full progression from them, but it could be fun to try.

[silver_tiger]

Yes, I believe that's the mechanics of it. Actually I have proof that I just bred tonight:

 

Mageia out of a Chrono x Desipis. The Desipis was grabbed out of the Desert.

 

And I believe that once we get past the first gen, we can pair the Xenos off and get a chance of a random color, but maybe it'll have to be like the Coppers. We might just be able to breed one color in a Leelo.

[Fiona]

Ok, I've been doing some plotting for a 7th gen all-inclusive. Question for the modly types here: I can do this without using my 2nd gen Thuwed Hellhorse, my 2nd gen silver tinsel from rb copper, my 2nd gen silver shimmer from moonstone or my 2nd gen bleeding moon from gold tin. I'd have one breed to spare. However, I'd like to use these guys in it. It would be extra special as my silver tin is from Penk and my silver shim is from Jewel. Actually, I need to leave out either the silver tin or the hellhorse if I'm going to get the third copper as a bred color, but I could use three of the four.

 

Would that count? I know bred golds and silvers are allowed due to the difficulty of getting ones own cb golds and silvers. CB prizes are even more impossible, as are cb hellhorses. I've never seen a clear ruling on this, however.

 

Edit: I have one breed to spare if lunar heralds are accepted into the lineage. I've been assuming they would be.

Edited September 12, 2015 by Fiona BlueFire

[airaani]

I don't know that we've ever had a formal ruling on 2nd gen prizes in leeloos. However... I feel like once upon a time, we were allowing thuwed shallow waters? Back before magis were added?

Anyone confirm/deny?

[Lastalda]

I don't know that we've ever had a formal ruling on 2nd gen prizes in leeloos. However... I feel like once upon a time, we were allowing thuwed shallow waters? Back before magis were added?

Anyone confirm/deny?

I know they were an eligible breed. I don't know about how they were counted for Leeloos.

We'd need Input from Pink on this, I think.

 

Myself, I think it makes sense to treat these like 2nd gen metallics.

However, the only rules about those I know refer to the metallic Leeloo, not the all-inclusive. For those, we definitely allow to substitute 2nd gen prizes for 2nd gen metals and treat them the same way - you can use a 2nd gen prize, but not a 2nd gen prize-kin (or at least not to substitute for metal).

 

I have no idea about how to count these in the all-inclusive. Like, would the prize mate's breed also be counted, even if they're not on your scroll?

In principal, I'm in favour of using them if you have them, but my understanding of all-inclusives is far too vague to make a good decision.

(And also, any decision ought to come from Pink anyway. )

Edited September 14, 2015 by Lastalda

[Fiona]

You'd have to count the prize's mates breed as the whole point in a leeloo is to have all different breeds in the starting generation. In this case my bleeding moon from gold tin would add bleeding moons and gold tins. It's the only way gold tins can be in my project since I don't own a 2nd gen gold tin.

 

The silver shim would be adding silver shimmer and moonstone. The silver tin would be adding rainbow copper and silver tin.

 

If the ruling is no on the bleeding moon I can still make it work.

 

 

I was thinking the rules on all-inclusives were the same as regular leeloos with the addition of getting as many additional breeds in by breeding as was possible. In this case, 64 starting breeds plus 22 more from breeding.

[rrattts]

 

 

Anyone with open milestone for CB silver?

[Lastalda]

Anyone with open milestone for CB silver?

The following are listed with open CB Silver requests on the Milestone Mastersheet:

- airaani

- BlueCanary1

- Drakrono

- Jayme

- Morgan (twice)

- Roekerd

- spyro76 (twice)

- Telamir

- Zeldarax (twice)

 

Of these, I have seen at least airaani and BlueCanary1 recently in the thread.

Edited September 14, 2015 by Lastalda

[Tomato_Juice]

Made a banner.

 

[url=https://forums.dragcave.net/index.php?showtopic=99565][img=https://i.imgur.com/HP91Vf9.png][/url]

 

Enjoy!

[Lastalda]

@Tomato_Juice:

Thanks, I've incorporated it into the first page.

 

-----------------------------------

 

I know, it's coming late, but I've never done this part. Please let me know if I do any of this wrong.

 

Opening the voting poll on the Lunar Heralds!

 

All members are welcome to vote, but please read the following definitions carefully. Ideally we would like a breed to have 3 characteristics to qualify for an Elemental category, so if giving a YES vote please state your reasoning along with it. You may not compare a new release to an already eligible breed. They must be voted in on their own merit.

 

EARTH - Dragons comprised of, resembling, or able to control rock, metal, and/or dirt, POSSIBLY residing in the earth. For example, a stone dragon is made of stone-like material AND eats rocks. Green dragons live within the caves AND have control over the earth.

 

WIND - Dragons comprised of gas or with a strong connection to weather or the cosmos. POSSIBLY those that spend a majority of their time in the air. For example, grey dragons land only to rest and eat AND they have control of the weather. Thunder dragons land only to sleep and breed. They get moisture from the clouds and control the weather.

 

FIRE - Dragons who control or are comprised of fire or electricity. Also those that resemble fire or the sun or which are controlled by or strongly tied to the sun. For example, magma dragons are coated in magma, live in volcanic regions AND are capable of withstanding intense temperatures. Sunsongs control light AND are controlled by the light.

 

WATER - Dragons who control or are comprised of water in either it's liquid or solid state. Also those that live the entirety of their lives in the water. For example, ice dragons form icicles on their skin, and can freeze a predator with their cold breath.

 

LIFE - Dragons who rely on or are affected by a very specific part of nature, which must be different than the majority of other breeds. Dragons who possess mana pertaining to magical, mental or spiritual control or consisting of magic in a way that is different from other breeds, or having a significant positive role in the world that is different from other breeds, or having a significant effect on a very specific part of nature, which must be different than the majority of other breeds, including both positive and negative effects. For example, a qualifier can not be that the dragon depends on living in the trees alone. But Pumpkin dragons would qualify because they live specifically in pumpkins AND can only be bred during Harvest time.

 

Dragon's Description:

Lunar Heralds are deeply attuned to the two moons of Valkemare, Aurax and Cirion. Strictly nocturnal, they draw energy from moonlight and will only hunt when the moons have waned. When breeding, the amount of moonlight the parents receive from each moon will determine the color of the egg produced. When a Lunar Herald is struck by direct moonlight, an illusion of multiple wings may appear. Witnessing a Lunar Herald’s illusory wings is commonly believed to be a sign of good fortune.

 

Additional infos from the spriter: (Thanks, Fiona, for digging that up!)

Despite their appearance, Lunar Heralds only have two wings, and they are very delicate and thin.  The wings are covered in fine iridescent dust similar in composition to the powder of a butterfly's wing.  The dust is actually comprised of shed skin from the dragon's wing membranes.  It easily brushes off when touched and is believed to contain magical properties.  The dust is replenished the next time the dragon sheds its skin.

 

When the wings are oriented correctly to the angles of the moons, the iridescent powder gleams like a rainbow.  During this time, an illusion of multiple wings may occasionally appear.  Depending on the brightness of the moonlight, this illusion can be quite vibrant.

 

Lunar Heralds are not overly large dragons.  Their body size is comparable to that of an average horse, not including their wings, neck, and tail.  They are very delicate creatures and quite lightweight for their size.  This combination makes them quite fast both in the air and on the ground should they need to escape a threat.

 

With the exception of mating season, Lunar Heralds are purely solitary creatures.  They do not feel safe in the company of other dragons, since they lack any real defenses against attack.  Hence when encountering another dragon, they will usually hide themselves away.  If the dragon is another Herald, they will greet each other by touching their front feet together and then go their separate ways.

 

Every night when the moons are visible, a Lunar Herald will seek an open area to "moonbathe".  This is incredibly important for them as they draw energy from solar radiation reflected off Valkemare's moons.  Direct solar radiation from the daytime sun is too strong for them and can be lethal if they are subject to long periods of exposure.

 

Lunar Heralds breed at all times of the month, and the intensity of the moonlight from Valkemare's moons determines the color of the egg produced.  This color will remain with the dragon throughout its life.  Despite their differences in appearance, Lunar Heralds are accepting of all within their species - they are all the same, after all.

 

When the moons have waned or there is an extended period of heavy cloud cover, Lunar Heralds are forced to hunt instead of moonbathing.  However, this can be dangerous for them due to their frailty, so they normally feed on smaller creatures like mice and rabbits.

 

[Their elemental affinity] wasn't planned out. However, based on their connection to moonlight, I would put them as "Light" element.

 

 

Arguments brought so far: (I'm rehashing these since the discussion is already a few weeks old.)

I vote they be included in our Lineage in WIND because:

1. Dragons closely tied to the cosmos - they draw energy from the moonlight

2. They only hunt under waning moonlight

3. Their breeding is determined by the amount of lunar light they receive.

It seems to me they must be WIND because their whole existence is tied so closely to the moons.

 

I see a lot of similarities between these and the Moonstones, so it seems like Fire would be a logical place for them, though I could also see the argument for Wind (due to the air/cosmos relation) or for Water (due to the Moon/Tide relation, though I know that's been argued against in the past).

 

Mmm, I think Moonstones were incorporated before we redid the definitions? And we're not really supposed to compare dragons anyway.

 

For my two cents, I think that Wind makes more sense than Fire because these dragons specifically have to do with the phase of the moon when the eggs are laid, not moonlight in general. The moon (or moons, in this case) may reflect the sunlight, but the phase thing has much more to do with cosmic things like how celestial bodies like moons relate to the gravity of the worlds they belong to.

 

Additionally, the Water category has nothing to do with the moon, it just relates to how the dragon interacts with water. I might consider it if the description or dragon information also included a clause about water and how the dragon interacts with it in each moon phase, if it seems significant, but for now there's absolutely nothing that says these have anything to do with water.

 

Tl;dr, I am putting my vote toward putting the Lunar Herald dragons in WIND.

 

[The additional info from LadyLyzar] makes me feel even more strongly that they belong in the lineage in WIND. They feed on moonlight, after all. One could argue they're eating light, so FIRE, but their tie to the moons of Valkemare is so vital that I think WIND fits better.

 

Every night when the moons are visible, a Lunar Herald will seek an open area to "moonbathe".  This is incredibly important for them as they draw energy from solar radiation reflected off Valkemare's moons.  Direct solar radiation from the daytime sun is too strong for them and can be lethal if they are subject to long periods of exposure.

 

Lunar Heralds breed at all times of the month, and the intensity of the moonlight from Valkemare's moons determines the color of the egg produced.

This one part of the description just really makes me think Fire is more a connection that Wind; But then, I think I personally see the moonlight as much more tied to light/fire then to the cosmos. I guess it really depends on how one considers the moon, since there's some apparent overlap.

 

That was why I think and argument can be made for FIRE, but they don't eat just any light. It must be moonlight.

 

But it's not just about moonlight as a food, it also effects their egg colors. Also, if sunlight can be fatal, I'd say that all light plays an important role in their wellbeing.

 

This is also true. Something for us to weigh out and decide.

 

I think if sunlight is too harsh then fire would be too harsh too.  It requires the 'cooling' of the cosmos to make it palatable for them.  I'm still going Wind.

 

I vote that the new dragons' tie to the moon definitely marks them as Elemental, but I need to contemplate whether the moon is more air-y or fire-y. Leaning toward air for the moment.

 

I still think that my argument about the phases of the moon being more significant than just any old moonlight an important point. I'd be leaning more toward fire if it was just moonlight period, but the information about the phases of the moon makes me feel like it's a cosmic thing, thus, Wind.

yes - Fiona (Wind), silver_chan (Wind), Lastalda (Wind), IvoryDragon (Fire), Grandmother_cathie (Wind), airaani (Wind, tentatively), Zeldarax (Wind or Fire)

no -

Edited September 22, 2015 by Lastalda

[rrattts]

Milestone gifted!

GIFTER: rrattts

RECEIVER: Airaani

GIFT: CB Silver

MILESTONE:

[Lastalda]

Milestone gifted!

GIFTER: rrattts

RECEIVER: Airaani

GIFT: CB Silver

MILESTONE:

Added to milestone sheet.

 

Also, does anyone need 2nd gen Halloweens or Halloween mates?

My CBs are mostly still unspoken for for this year, and I'd like to know what to breed when the time comes.

Edited September 17, 2015 by Lastalda

[airaani]

Milestone gifted!

GIFTER: rrattts

RECEIVER: Airaani

GIFT: CB Silver

MILESTONE:

Thank you so much rrattts! <3 She's lovely

 

If anyone has any 2nd gen female shadow walkers from green nebula or purple nebula from past years, please pm me! I'm looking for specific patterns of 3rd gen I'm set on 2nd gens for now though. I missed last Halloween basically, and was fairly mia for the previous one so I missed some influences :\ Need to rebreed them this year.

 

This Halloween, I can breed siblings to these pumpkins:

http://dragcave.net/lineage/0S1mE (4th gen pb)

http://dragcave.net/lineage/s3KGK (3rd gen pb)

http://dragcave.net/lineage/5ckkD (3rd gen pb)

http://dragcave.net/lineage/sZOSb (3rd gen pb)

http://dragcave.net/lineage/52XXE (3rd gen check w/female uv. Could breed a 4th gen if I had a mate)

http://dragcave.net/lineage/11EQH (3rd gen check w/female uv. Could breed a 4th gen if I had a mate)

Also I will hopefully be able to breed these two together for a 4th gen check w/ male uv: http://dragcave.net/lineage/cPMei x http://dragcave.net/lineage/qf06A

I also have unspoken for CBs of every Halloween breed, and access to any CB mates except prize, yule, holly, and val 09. My sweetlings are normal.

Edited September 17, 2015 by airaani

[Fiona]

Alas, it appears that I haven't a single shadow walker x nebula pairing. None at all. What was I thinking?

[airaani]

Haha, it's no problem <3 There's no reason everyone else has to be neb crazy just cause I am! I just thought I'd ask ^.^

[Lastalda]

I don't have any 2nd gen holidays at all.

But I'd be happy to breed some for you this Halloween, if you want them?

[airaani]

I'm building a lineage like this http://dragcave.net/lineage/SFFcH because nebbies and shadows are gorgeous together & also purple and green are my favorite colors. So far I have that 4th gen and then this 3rd gen http://dragcave.net/lineage/rTUtW of a lineage with reversed starting pairs. So I've used 3 of my 2nd gen shadows bred for this purpose... of which I have approximately 30 ;^.^ So while I won't say no if you happen to have a 2nd gen from green or purple neb, I won't be actively seeking them. Got to rebreed all my misgendered 3rd gens >.< And hopefully breed a 4th gen this year once I breed a mate for Tut!

[silver_tiger]

Oooh, that's gorgeous! I sadly don't have any 2nd gen Shadow x Nebs, but maybe I should breed some this Halloween.

[Zeldarax]

Hi friends!

 

It looks, I'm back.

I have been quite some time off.

 

Just saw the discussion about the LEELOO's. I have a second gen Prize, as does Roekerd. And probably we caqn try to get a 2nd gen Metallic from the Golden Tinsel Licht, which is at my wife scroll

 

I'll try to be a little more active in the future and am hoping to collect thenew Dragons of the last months.

[Fiona]

Hey, welcome back, Zelda and Roekerd.

[Lastalda]

Zelda! Welcome back!

And Roekerd, too, of course, if he is back, too.

[Zeldarax]

Thanks!

 

Roekerd isn't really back ATM.

 

School and his phone games take to many time to be really active over here.

 

I was just reading the forum and have gone backwards to 134, still a long way to go.

 

I agree, the lunar Heralds belong to the Lineage and AIR and Fire are both possible. I'll try to ponder about them to be sure in which category they fit, but can live with either of them.

[Lastalda]

I'll leave voting on the Lunar Heralds open until Thursday.

 

Question to all: if we do accept Lunar Heralds (which looks very likely), we would add them as four breeds, not one, right?

I think this summer's discussion on this topic arrived at

Subspecies are counted as separate breeds if they have either a separate egg sprite, or a separate description (or both).

So since all four herald eggs are a different color, this would mean 4 different breeds.

 

Right?

 

(Can you tell I'm totally new at this modding thing? )

Edited September 21, 2015 by Lastalda

[Fiona]

Yes, I'm pretty sure that's what we decided.

 

You're doing fine as a mod.

[silver_tiger]

Yeah, that sounds right! And you're doing fine :3