Get Rid of Name Exclusivity

[Keileon]

1 hour ago, HeatherMarie said:

I'm honestly not sure how big of an issue this actually would be to the majority of users? A very large part of wanting non-exclusivity is wanting to play the way you want, on your own scroll, without interference from some other random scroll you don't even know. I think the same mindset can be applied here: Duplicate names can, and probably often *would*, be ignored if you just don't go looking for specific names on other scrolls? If you have a friend with a specific dragon, you most likely have the ability to ask/know the dragon's code, and find it that way. If you *really* *need* to see that one specific dragon, heck, go through the list of names if it's that important to you. But what you are talking about is on someone *else's* scroll, you are talking about difficulty in finding dragons that *you don't own*, which imo shouldn't be a reason to keep name exclusivity because DC has *always* leaned towards 'your scroll is yours' and 'what other players do isn't up to you' and etc etc. There is no reason, imo, that having a harder time finding *someone else's* dragon should be such a big concern. We already have ways to *hide* our dragons so others don't see them, after all. 

edit to summarize: This suggestion is about an improvement of quality for your own scroll. An improvement in playing on your own scroll. What other scrolls may or may not do, or how easy it is to find other people's dragons, shouldn't really be a factor imo. 

I'm going to wholeheartedly agree with this.

 

If you want to find your own dragon? There's so many ways. Use the group filter, use your own URL history (I get to the majority of my dragons by typing the first few letters of their name in my url bar), use a relative or previous mate, use the fertility filter, look for where it would be on your scroll with your sorting settings, etc.

 

If you want to find someone else's dragon? ... ask them? You can go to their scroll if you know it, but aside from using methods like that or finding it through a progeny list I don't think the site should be catering to players who want to find a dragon that doesn't even belong to them. Save the lineage link if it concerns you.

Edited October 26, 2020 by Keileon

[Pilauli]

I have a proposal for the hypothetical code display:

 

Make the lineages normally display just the way they do now, but if you click on a dragon's name, the name area changes to show the code instead.  It continues to show the code until you either click on the code again (which changes it back to show the name), or else close the page.

 

This would still involve clicking (sorry, people who don't want to click), but it would normally present the names in a clutter-free environment, and then if someone wanted to compare the codes, they could click on all the names and change them all to show the codes, then easily compare the codes with no other text to clutter it up.

 

I mean, here's a lineage I'm working on: https://dragcave.net/lineage/milEy

The first part of each name is supposed to be gibberish that sorts alphabetically by generation.  The second part of each name is based on that dragon's code.  But if I ask you to look through and check it for inbreeding, you have to look closely to figure out which part varies for each dragon, and then you have to consciously ignore the parts that don't vary so you can focus on the parts that do.

 

If you could just hide all of the text except the codes, then I'll bet it would still be easier to compare them all, even if you do need to work harder to remember codes, because it would be much easier to find the codes in the first place.

[Tini]

Okay I adore that method of code v name. Default to name, if you need to see the code you can, no option toggle needed. The name's kinda like a spoiler tag.

 

Yeah that's one of those lines I look at, then quietly go over to aond to check for me. My brain just goes 'nah, cant tell those apart'

[osmarks]

4 hours ago, Fuzzbucket said:

The difference here is that unlike ANY other change we have seen, it isn't something that a player who doesn't like it can simply ignore. Don't collect Arias, don't have male pinks on your scroll, don't use teleport - easy. But this one is something that cannot be ignored. Look for your friend's dragon called Bob using view/n.Bob - and there will be others showing up. And you cannot ignore it. That is a different class of change to any that has gone before.

 

MAYBE if view/n/Bob is set to show only the FIRST one to be thus named and only add others if you click a second button "show more dragons called Bob". ? It might help a tiny bit.

You can't really ignore someone else having a name you want either, and it's more obvious than "oh no, multiple things have the same name now". Your argument would work in the other direction, stronger in my opinion, if we had started with nonunique names and someone suddenly suggested making them exclusive.

 

EDIT: also, this is inaccurate otherwise, there have been tons of changes which didn't have an opt out, not that I was around for them - stuff like multiple biomes existing, I think breeding not being limited to dragons of the same rarity or something, many early cave features like that. You appear to just be focusing on a small subset.

Edited October 26, 2020 by osmarks

[Painter]

I am really selfish. I have a handful of word names I love and I like being the only one to have them.

 

However, I recognize that it's probably better to get rid of name exclusivity. Just cause I'm happy, doesn't mean everyone is. It also doesn't really feel sustainable. It's fun having exclusive names, until nearly every cool word-name is taken. The only way I really get word names now is going through my older dragons and putting those names on newer dragons that they fit better on...

What about some kind of compromise on the view page or something? Like a little symbol if it's an original name (or a symbol if it's not original, idk). Lineages would be still be fine, so it wouldn't punish anyone using a repeat name.

 

I also would like a symbol on the naming page if this were to happen, that would show whether you've picked a unique name or not. Maybe the regular checkmark for unique name, and an O symbol for a name that is a repeat but still available, and an X for unavailable like if you did the spaces bad. This would let people still search for unique names. It'll also help people not accidentally give their dragons the same name by accident, which definitely will happen a lot when you have thousands of named dragons.

Edited October 26, 2020 by Painter

[Shadowdrake]

5 hours ago, Fuzzbucket said:

The difference here is that unlike ANY other change we have seen, it isn't something that a player who doesn't like it can simply ignore.

 

Every single de-exclusionary change has had effects no one can ignore. Multiple biomes means no one can hunt on one page all day and know if a CB gold comes up they will at least see it. The re-release of CB holidays means that players who formerly had trading power or special 2nd gens like hollies now finds them near worthless. The market abruptly changed trading values as people saw they could get cb golds or other rares on their own. Arias and frills came with a sprite change--a very drastic, unignorable change--and the new ability to breed Arias and frills instead of whatever their mate was.

 

Unlike these other changes, name inclusivity would only affect your perception of how other people are playing, just like in your own argument. It isn't even your own dragon you're concerned about! It's someone else's! And unlike these other changes, if you kept naming your own dragons with codes or keysmashes it wouldn't even affect you. At most, it would only affect your feeling of being special or ability to trade, which many other re-releases have also negatively affected a few for the benefit of many.

[DragonLady86]

[q]The difference here is that unlike ANY other change we have seen, it isn't something that a player who doesn't like it can simply ignore.[/q]

 

Sprite updates. many of which are still complained about.  Other examples have been given, I wont repeat them.

Edited October 27, 2020 by DragonLady86

[Fuzzbucket]

You CAN not collect those sprites. I know people who no longer collect golds.

[Seriva Senkalora]

On 10/26/2020 at 2:36 AM, angelicdragonpuppy said:

I get that mileage will vary and not everyone will instantly think of names, but seriously--say a code out loud, add whatever vowels your brain's language processing adds to make it readable, and voila! Yes, this won't work if you're looking to make SPECIFIC names based on people names or character names or common nouns, but that's not the point. Making unique names is, by and large, very doable. 

 

Or smiply use this: http://confuseddragons.com/script/name.html

My sister uses it for naming her dragons.

[FortyTwo]

Adding my support for removing name exclusivity. Never liked it to be honest and if it makes more people happy then I have no problems with it. I don't see what exclusivity adds to the game aside from feeling special because you got a nice word, phrase, name, etc. Perhaps removing it would encourage others to name their dragons since they wouldn't be limited.

 

Also in favour of being able to click the name on the lineage page and have it toggle to the code. I wouldn't support an account-level toggle because there's already a lot on that settings page.

 

I'm still unsure how  the view/n/name page should be handled, but I like the idea of another page to show dragons with that name.

[Ruby Eyes]

1 hour ago, FortyTwo said:

encourage others to name their dragons

Why is that necessary? Why does anyone need to be encouraged to play the game differently from how they do play it?

[MissK.]

1 minute ago, Ruby Eyes said:

Why is that necessary? Why does anyone need to be encouraged to play the game differently from how they do play it?

 

It's not necessary of course. I think he's referring to the fact that multiple people in this thread (including myself) have said that naming is a pretty big hassle right now, and they feel discouraged every time they struggle with it. Hence, they might be encouraged without name exclusivity. 

[Fuzzbucket]

16 minutes ago, Ruby Eyes said:

Why is that necessary? Why does anyone need to be encouraged to play the game differently from how they do play it?

 

Yes indeed. I name everything - but I don't think it's necessary - lots of people just want to collect,and don't care about names - and they don't have to !

[FortyTwo]

15 minutes ago, Ruby Eyes said:

Why is that necessary? Why does anyone need to be encouraged to play the game differently from how they do play it?

I didn't say it was necessary. Of course it isn't. That's why I said "since they wouldn't be limited." I rarely name mine and I still probably wouldn't even if exclusivity was removed (I'm too lazy and just like collecting pixels).

 

But a number of people in this thread have mentioned they're turned off from naming because they can't use names they like. Not everyone wants to name their dragons something from a code or a name generator. Names like 'Bob' and 'Jones' are more meaningful to them and they might want to name their dragons if they didn't have to fight the system every time.

[_Charky]

2 hours ago, FortyTwo said:

Adding my support for removing name exclusivity. Never liked it to be honest and if it makes more people happy then I have no problems with it. I don't see what exclusivity adds to the game aside from feeling special because you got a nice word, phrase, name, etc. Perhaps removing it would encourage others to name their dragons since they wouldn't be limited.

 

Also in favour of being able to click the name on the lineage page and have it toggle to the code. I wouldn't support an account-level toggle because there's already a lot on that settings page.

 

I'm still unsure how  the view/n/name page should be handled, but I like the idea of another page to show dragons with that name.

 

1 hour ago, Ruby Eyes said:

Why is that necessary? Why does anyone need to be encouraged to play the game differently from how they do play it?

 

I can't help but feel you've misinterpreted. It's "necessary" in the same way it was "necessary" to add biomes, or BSAs, to change the way zombies work, to introduce shards and the egg store - that people WANT to play the game differently but are currently dissuaded from.

Incubate exists - it encourages people to grab AP eggs because they can hatch them almost instantly.
Expunge exists - it encourages people to make zombies, because you can get rid of them later.
The store exists - it encourages people to collect different breeds because they can pick and choose from eggs they might have otherwise never seen.

At present there are a WHOLE bunch of people (like me) who add usernames or clan names to their dragons to make consistent naming easier, and I'm willing to bet there are a whole bunch more who would but don't have the energy for that. This change would encourage them to come up with names, since they have more freedom.

[Ruby Eyes]

So you're talking about ENABLING them, actually. Encouraging has a different vibe for me.

Thanks for the translation. English is not my native language.

 

Still, I do NOT want all my name links suddenly go somewhere else.

[angelicdragonpuppy]

Regarding "removing name exclusivity increases enjoyment," the opposite is also true. I LIKE the "oh yes!" feeling when a name I really wanted isn't taken, or the heartwarming feeling when someone gifts me a name they know I'd been looking for, or when I see a familiar friend's dragon in the lineage of something I just nabbed. That all goes away without exclusive names.

 

Regarding my previous technical gripes:

 

1) Being able to easily at-a-glance check for inbreeding; in terms of the code toggle, if you could click ONE button and toggle every dragon to see codes, that'd be much more convenient than having to click each one. THAT BEING SAID. I find it much much MUCH easier to remember things like "Hairy the Horror" and "Potatokun" as opposed to remembering 3403y and DjjEu plus goodness knows how many other codes while trying to skim a long lineage. They just don't remain in the brain as well. One thing I just thought of that might be a compromise would be that you have an option in account settings, not to check for "inbreeding" in name, but to "check lineages for repeat dragons," possibly with an added note that it doesn't mean anything. Aka an inbred checker that sounds less like an implicit warning that inbreeding could be harmful in-game.

 

2) Being able to find things easily still with view/n/

 

21 hours ago, Sextonator said:

For your point 2, the suggestion isn’t to just show your dragons, but all dragons, with yours at the top.

 

I imagine it’d look like this:

 

your dragons named x:

x

x

 

Other dragons named x:

x
x

 

Also, I imagine this would be in chronological order, so it’d be the oldest on top and youngest on the bottom. I think adding images like in a progeny view would be best, but additional info like the code would work too.

 

I can live with this. It might be annoying with more common names, but for most I imagine it'd get the job done.

 

 

[Fuzzbucket]

1 hour ago, dracocharky said:

I can't help but feel you've misinterpreted. It's "necessary" in the same way it was "necessary" to add biomes, or BSAs, to change the way zombies work, to introduce shards and the egg store - that people WANT to play the game differently but are currently dissuaded from.

Incubate exists - it encourages people to grab AP eggs because they can hatch them almost instantly.
Expunge exists - it encourages people to make zombies, because you can get rid of them later.
The store exists - it encourages people to collect different breeds because they can pick and choose from eggs they might have otherwise never seen.

 

Expunge does NOT encourage me to make zombies - why would it ? To go to all that trouble and then waste it - no thanks.

Incubate - it doesn't encourage me to grab anything, it just speeds up my breeding.

The store - I only go there if I am desperate - it doesn't encourage me as such. It means I can (not suddenly want to) get some missing dragon I need for something.

 

1 hour ago, Ruby Eyes said:

So you're talking about ENABLING them, actually. Encouraging has a different vibe for me.

Thanks for the translation. English is not my native language.

 

Still, I do NOT want all my name links suddenly go somewhere else.

 

Yes to this. Enable is quite different from encourage,. See above,

[MissK.]

22 minutes ago, Fuzzbucket said:

 

Expunge does NOT encourage me to make zombies - why would it ? To go to all that trouble and then waste it - no thanks.

Incubate - it doesn't encourage me to grab anything, it just speeds up my breeding.

The store - I only go there if I am desperate - it doesn't encourage me as such. It means I can (not suddenly want to) get some missing dragon I need for something.

 

 

Nobody said they encourage everyone, so the fact that it doesn't apply to you doesn't mean much. Incubate 100% encourages me to grab ap eggs because I can usually insta-hatch them, otherwise I would rather hunt for rares and trade for hatchlings. 

 

While I don't use the store very often it definitely encouraged me to make sure I collected my weekly shards a while back, when I almost didn't play at all.

 

As for expunge, never used it, but there are people who hate the idea of having something on their scroll they can never get rid of, in which case it could encourage them to make zombies. Alternatively, for people who don't want zombies at all it would encourage them to still use revive on a dead hatchling without the fear of being stuck with something they hate.

 

"Encourage" doesn't just mean "persuade", it can also mean to assist, to stimulate. (edit: I thought of another one, how about "give incentive"?) If you would rather use enable (even though we're definitely able to name already, it's just frustrating) that's also fine, but I don't think picking words apart matters much in this discussion. The point is, it seems like no name exclusivity might lead to people naming their dragons more.

Edited October 27, 2020 by MissK.

[_Charky]

24 minutes ago, Fuzzbucket said:

 

Expunge does NOT encourage me to make zombies - why would it ? To go to all that trouble and then waste it - no thanks.

Incubate - it doesn't encourage me to grab anything, it just speeds up my breeding.

The store - I only go there if I am desperate - it doesn't encourage me as such. It means I can (not suddenly want to) get some missing dragon I need for something.

 

 

Yes to this. Enable is quite different from encourage,. See above,

 

that's lovely, but you aren't everyone. I was speaking from my own personal experience, so I know with 100% certainty that they've had that effect on at least one person - and from that we can extrapolate that quite a few others will feel the same.

You seem to be squabbling over semantics? In the English language, "encourage" can be and is used in the context of "enabling". It can mean "convince someone who disagrees", sure, but it also means "support someone's desire to change". In the context of the post, to someone with a good grasp on english, that would be fairly clear.

[Sextonator]

So I have no doubt that people would go on a mass naming spree, or even a renaming spree if this was mentioned in a news topic.

 

But guys. People have stated and are stating that they'd name dragons more often if they didn't have such trouble. This, in my opinion, is a good thing, especially with groups like "if it has a face it has a name" and people who prefer named dragons in lineages. If people had an easier time naming things, finding a nicely named lineage would be easier, being a part of a "name everything" group would be easier.

 

And yeah, you'd have the problems that you've stated, but... those are your problems. Not everyone's. Not everyone is going to have those problems. This is something that is supposed to benefit everyone, and the needs of the many come before the needs of the few. There are things that you can do to circumvent those problems, as is your responsibility. You can use bookmarks, you can use a spreadsheet, in terms of your own scroll you can have groups, you can make use of the sort options when looking, and you can double check your work.

 

I will never not be for the removal of name exclusivity, and really hope this suggestion passes.

[_Charky]

18 minutes ago, Sextonator said:

But guys. People have stated and are stating that they'd name dragons more often if they didn't have such trouble.

 

Really, I think you've hit the nail on the head here. This is what it boils down to and it's why I support a mass-renaming feature too. Naming dragons is simply tedious; you have to click a bunch of times for each dragon, and I have a few columns on my spreadsheet purely dedicated to working out family names, because I already lose over a quarter of my characters to sticking "charky's" in front. if I could just open a page and type names without having to think about it, I'd happily spend a few hours on the task.

[Keileon]

11 hours ago, Fuzzbucket said:

You CAN not collect those sprites. I know people who no longer collect golds.

By this logic you CAN also not name your dragons. I don't understand your point when you say you can't ignore the change this suggestion can make, but you can ignore all the other changes.

 

You don't have to engage with a mechanic that you don't like. But saying that you can choose to not collect a certain breed of dragon because you don't like its new sprite is no different from saying that you can choose not to name your dragons because you don't like that others can share those names.

[Tetelestai]

3 hours ago, dracocharky said:

Really, I think you've hit the nail on the head here. This is what it boils down to and it's why I support a mass-renaming feature too. Naming dragons is simply tedious; you have to click a bunch of times for each dragon, and I have a few columns on my spreadsheet purely dedicated to working out family names, because I already lose over a quarter of my characters to sticking "charky's" in front. if I could just open a page and type names without having to think about it, I'd happily spend a few hours on the task.

With over 3700 dragons, I'm starting to get lazy with names and just not naming them because of how long the process is. I never named my Valentine's dragons last year. There are quite a few dragons on my list that need names now, and it all just gets pushed on my 'to do' list. I really hope this suggestion is implemented  or a compromise is struck. It is very greatly needed.

[Shadowdrake]

My final opinion: naming exclusivity is a barrier. Some people enjoy trying to get past that barrier, or being first to get past a specific barrier, or having a specific method to get past the barrier. However, other people find it's just a discouraging and unnecessary barrier, and don't enjoy the required hoops to jump through or specific set ups to get past it. And there's really no reasonable way to compromise between having a barrier and not having one. So I have to take the side of allowing more personal freedom to the detriment of those who enjoy the existence of the barrier.

 

I feel that the barrier in naming is unneeded, given it's one of the very few ways to customize your own dragons. People should be allowed to name whatever they want so long as it doesn't break rules. 

Edited October 27, 2020 by Shadowdrake