Coronavirus Discussion

[Nine]

7 hours ago, Classycal said:

What is wrong with some people?  I had to go to Wal-Mart and hardly anyone had masks on.  Don't they realize how important this is?  Evidently not.  Banging my head on the wall...

 

It's really not that big a deal. The masks people have been using en-masse are not medical devices and don't filter particles to any great extent. But if someone wants to sneeze in your face then sure it's better than nothing. That's why I've been wearing paper bags over my head, great way to recycle after lunch.

 

I dislike quoting anything CDC these days: https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/npptl/pdfs/UnderstandDifferenceInfographic-508.pdf

 

The NEJM has better info, even if they backtracked hard when people starting quoting them out of context: https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmp2006372

 

"Ok we didn't say masks weren't good, just that you're not probably not going to get infected from a lady passing by in Walmart" : https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2020836

 

Masks are a bandaid-- maybe they work a lot, maybe a little, maybe none. It's wishy-washy when it comes to results. The evidence suggests it might be better to hedge your bets and assume it does something but not to pin your hopes on it. The issue I take is that the "MASKERS vs. ANTI-MASKERS" feels like just another way to pit "us vs. them". It doesn't even feel it's about the disease anymore.

 

Quote

 

Haha so funny, those dummies not wearing masks. How ridiculous they are!

Instead of contemplating the reasons for not wearing a mask: maybe dropped it on the ground or it's soiled, maybe have a respiratory condition that makes it difficult to breathe, maybe isn't aware of the proper technique... I'll just laugh at them and denounce their intelligence. I saw a lady who had pre-cancer burned off her face and couldn't wear a mask while it was healing. Nah, she must not believe in science.

 

What does "denies science" even mean. Is science like a religion now, a black and white concept of absolute truth? Science is ever-changing and frequently disproves itself, constantly challenging the norm and what we think we know. You can agree with results, you can have uncertainties or remain skeptical, but you can't just "believe" in science. (I mean I guess you can if you really want)

 

I can't blame people for being afraid and uncertain, especially regarding things modern adults have so little experience with like disease. While everybody by now has surely read the Wikipedia article on 1918 Spanish Flu, the incredible thing about disease is that it doesn't abide by our understanding of how things work. So we appeal to authority because we are scared and trust someone else is making an informed decision about our health. But you also have to remember that for one, politicians and even medical authorities are not entirely impartial. And demonizing and/or belittling the other side does nothing but solidify preconceptions, alienate others, and more importantly-- make it harder for the actual nonpartisan information to be heard. This is how anti-vaxxers, climate-deniers, etc. are born... not just through an arbitrary rejection of belief but through making it an "us vs. them".

[Lagie]

There is apparently an island-wise road block happening today so I need to check I have my insurance papers on hand and am wearing my work tee. If it's true, it's possible my shop will be quiet today. They're likely trying to stop people from going out when they don't have to (everyone seems to forget we're still under Covid emergency orders and are out and about willy-nilly when they should be staying home unless it's important, like food shopping or pharmacy needs).

[olympe]

7 hours ago, Nine said:

 

It's really not that big a deal. The masks people have been using en-masse are not medical devices and don't filter particles to any great extent. But if someone wants to sneeze in your face then sure it's better than nothing. That's why I've been wearing paper bags over my head, great way to recycle after lunch.

Well, as long as you have a barrier around you that prevents you from spreading your germs via droplets of spit (or whatever), I'm fine with it. (Because that's what non-medical masks actually do. Prevent your spit or spit aerosol from spreading.) How you don't run into things (or people) with a paper bag on your face without breaching the barrier by poking holes in it is beyond me, though. Care to elaborate?

[Nine]

2 hours ago, olympe said:

How you don't run into things (or people) with a paper bag on your face without breaching the barrier by poking holes in it is beyond me, though. Care to elaborate?

 

Like a tarantula, I have scores of tiny sensitive hairs over my body that alert me to nearby objects and the movement of potential prey.

 

I'm also being a sarcastic ass and just joking about the bags, lol.

[KrazyKarp]

8 hours ago, Nine said:

Masks are a bandaid-- maybe they work a lot, maybe a little, maybe none. It's wishy-washy when it comes to results. The evidence suggests it might be better to hedge your bets and assume it does something but not to pin your hopes on it. The issue I take is that the "MASKERS vs. ANTI-MASKERS" feels like just another way to pit "us vs. them". It doesn't even feel it's about the disease anymore.

I really, really, really appreciate your entire post, especially this part. The "masker vs anti-maskers" truly has gotten out of hand and it is just another way of creating an "us vs. them" situation. This late in the covid game, if you're still obsessed with fighting the other side, it doesn't matter which side you're on, you're part of the problem.

Edited October 1, 2020 by KrazyKarp

[Astreya]

The webmaster of the Oberhausen website was lazy with the Covid updates again. We have more cases involving teachers from two schools, one of them the Friedrich-Ebert-Realschule I have practically next door.

 

The city announced that parties and wedding with more than 50 persons need to be announced to the city now. Funerals with more than 50 persons don't have to be announced, which is a bit weird IMO as in Italy some funerals were superspreader events, too.

 

If you look at the map - we are surrounded:

Spoiler

--------------

As of today, Thursday, October 1, 09:00 GMT+2, my home town (population 211 000) has 37 (-2) active cases, while 565 (+8.) people have recovered. All in all there have been 616 (+6) people who suffered from Covid-19 since the beginning of the pandemic. The number of newly infected people per 100 000 citizens in the last 7 days is 11.4 (-1.9).

 

Currently 8 (+-0) persons are treated in hospitals, with 2 (+-0) of them in intensive care. 14 persons sadly died. 171 (+-0) persons are currently quarantined. All in all there have been 32 851 Covid-19 tests in Oberhausen.

 

Source: https://www.oberhausen.de/de/index/rathaus/verwaltung/umwelt-gesundheit-und-mobilitat/gesundheit/aktuelle_informationen/informationen_zum_coronavirus/aktuelle_meldungen.php

Edited October 1, 2020 by Astreya

[Ruby Eyes]

You're surrounded, and I'm actually *in* one of those orange spots.

Then again, Düsseldorf is a city of snobs. When I needed surgery for my foot, googling only brought up plastic surgeons ...

Either way, I'm not very surprised at the party people around here ...

*hides*

 

[purplehaze]

The CDC is now slowing the flow of new information on coronavirus.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/cdc-places-moratorium-releasing-coronavirus-health-guidance/story?id=73351190&cid=clicksource_4380645_4_heads_hero_live_hero_related

For the last week, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has stopped issuing new health information related to the

novel coronavirus after altering the procedure by which that information was being shared with the American people, sources with direct knowledge of the change told ABC News.

The type of information that has been withheld has previously been vital to hospitals, health officials and local leaders on the front lines providing updated guidance on how to treat, test and slow the spread of the illness, which has claimed over 200,000 American lives. A source told ABC News that includes additional "guidance on who should be tested and when," adding, "That stuff won't get updated."

From at least Sept. 24 to Sept. 30, the CDC has stopped updating new health guidance and recommendation information, according to the sources. An ABC News review of the CDC website shows a timeline that supports the lack of information being updated.

­­A CDC source familiar with the COVID response called the halt in information flow to the American public a "moratorium," adding, "Scientists are prevented from updating the CDC website with new information, recommendations and policies surrounding COVID." A separate source confirmed CDC guidance updates are not currently being published, but disagreed with the categorization of a "moratorium" and instead insisted "agency leadership is just ensuring the review process is being followed."

(click link for entire article)

 

So now scientific information that may help the fight against the virus must be "approved" before being posted!

Sad that it has come to this.

[trystan]

6 minutes ago, purplehaze said:

So now scientific information that may help the fight against the virus must be "approved" before being posted!

because if it's not in line with what the current regime thinks, it's not going to get approved.

 

oops, my inner sarcastic Trys posted that.  i do try to make her behave herself though

[Classycal]

3 hours ago, trystan said:

because if it's not in line with what the current regime thinks, it's not going to get approved.

 

oops, my inner sarcastic Trys posted that.  i do try to make her behave herself though

Ha!

[Astreya]

@Ruby Eyes

Poor you! I hope you don't live too close to "the longest bar of the world" where most the party people are.

 

@purplehaze

I think I already read something some weeks ago that the Trump regime put their fingers into CDC data publishing?

 

I bet most people would refer to the JHU anyway by now. Or those who can read German will find all the cutting edge info at the RKI. Which reminds me, the Charité isn't too bad either.

 

And here is the German language weekly Podcast series by Prof.Dr.Christian Drosten from the Charité: https://www.ndr.de/nachrichten/info/podcast4684.html

 

Edited October 1, 2020 by Astreya

[olympe]

41 minutes ago, Astreya said:

Which reminds me, the Charité isn't too bad either.

I'm pretty sure Putin doesn't agree with you. He must positively hate the Charité these days.  

 

But, yes, there was mention of Trump pretty much putting the CDC under his minions' control.

[purplehaze]

He has been interfering with the CDC all along, increasing recently, but this was another step after the last guidelines they issued disagreed with his official line.

[trystan]

1 hour ago, purplehaze said:

He has been interfering with the CDC all along, increasing recently, but this was another step after the last guidelines they issued disagreed with his official line.

because it makes him look bad, and it has to be all about him.

 

if we did less testing, we'd have less cases, after all.....

 

*sigh*

 

4 hours ago, Classycal said:

7 hours ago, trystan said:

oops, my inner sarcastic Trys posted that.  i do try to make her behave herself though

Ha!

yeah, she's been out and playing for the past few years.  sometimes i do have to keep her check though. 👍

[Astreya]

1 hour ago, purplehaze said:

He has been interfering with the CDC all along, increasing recently, but this was another step after the last guidelines they issued disagreed with his official line.

 I think they became aware that people trusted the CDC more than the White House, so they had to take action to "remedy" that...

[Lagie]

This is not what one wants to see on the front page of the paper when the numbers are already high -

[trystan]

5 minutes ago, Lagie said:

This is not what one wants to see on the front page of the paper when the numbers are already high -

oof.  i'm not an expert, but i always thought the numbers reported were lower than what they actually were. *sigh*

[Astreya]

@trystan

Even in Germany, early antibody studies gave results that the number of reported cases is pretty much lower than the number of real cases.

The RKI just started a large Germany-wide monitoring study with 34 000 persons to find out the real spread of the virus. [Source - Language German]

 

There were already several smaller studies, both of the early Covid hotspots and via blood donation services, too. [Source - Language German]

[Lagie]

9 minutes ago, trystan said:

oof.  i'm not an expert, but i always thought the numbers reported were lower than what they actually were. *sigh*

I'd seen the possibility a few times in relation to the US but somehow didn't mentally translate to here.

 

Another 97 cases today, 77 of them on my island. The coworker who died from it had an underlying medical condition, and leaves behind six children and a few grandkids as well. I didn't think she was as old as 50!

 

[trystan]

1 hour ago, Astreya said:

Even in Germany, early antibody studies gave results that the number of reported cases is pretty much lower than the number of real cases.

hmm, interesting

 

1 hour ago, Lagie said:

I'd seen the possibility a few times in relation to the US but somehow didn't mentally translate to here.

well it makes sense in the US - the numbers need to look good for Dear Leader  

[AngelsSin]

Apparently Hope Hicks has covid and she has close contact with Trump so Trump and Melania are being tested.

[AngelsSin]

Actually have an update on that Trump has tested positive for Coronavirus. Cnn is reporting on it now.

 

Guess he shouldn't have been so anti-mask. Hope he didn't give it to Biden. 

Also guess the rallies he had planned will be canceled as he is supposed to quarantine. 

 

Can't feel bad for him he brought it on himself.

Edited October 2, 2020 by AngelsSin

[Ruby Eyes]

11 hours ago, Astreya said:

Poor you! I hope you don't live too close to "the longest bar of the world" where most the party people are.

I don't but my direct boss does, right there.

 

2 hours ago, AngelsSin said:

Can't feel bad for him he brought it on himself.

And on his wife, I heard.

[Astreya]

7 hours ago, AngelsSin said:

 Hope he didn't give it to Biden.

Considering the fact that shouting is a risk factor for spreading the virus wide and that even asymptomatic persons can already be infectious, there is indeed a risk from the debate.

 

As I doubt anyone in the White House worse any face masks, it will be interesting how many people there will get infected. In a way it is quite a laboratory at the moment.

 

5 hours ago, Ruby Eyes said:

I don't but my direct boss does, right there.

And on his wife, I heard.

Yuck. Please stay safe!

 

--------------------

As of today, Friday, October 2, 09:00 GMT+2, my home town (population 211 000) has 37 (+-0) active cases, while 567 (+2) people have recovered. All in all there have been 618 (+2) people who suffered from Covid-19 since the beginning of the pandemic. The number of newly infected people per 100 000 citizens in the last 7 days is 10.0 (-1.4).

 

Currently 8 (+-0) persons are treated in hospitals, with 2 (+-0) of them in intensive care. 14 persons sadly died. 186 (+15) persons are currently quarantined. All in all there have been 33 069 Covid-19 tests in Oberhausen.

 

Source: https://www.oberhausen.de/de/index/rathaus/verwaltung/umwelt-gesundheit-und-mobilitat/gesundheit/aktuelle_informationen/informationen_zum_coronavirus/aktuelle_meldungen.php

 

Edited October 2, 2020 by Astreya

[AngelsSin]

4 hours ago, Astreya said:

As I doubt anyone in the White House worse any face masks, it will be interesting how many people there will get infected. In a way it is quite a laboratory at the moment.

 

 

Already a press secretary and journalist have tested positive. We can likely expect a lot more. Probably will also see people from the debate testing positive as well as Trump's family might have worn mask entering the debate but took them off the moment they sat down.

Edited October 2, 2020 by AngelsSin