Coronavirus Discussion

[olympe]

1 hour ago, Astreya said:

@AngelsSin

On thinking about the issue, it occurred to me that unfortunately the mental health thing can be deadly, too. There is the very real possibility that some kids might commit suicide if they are so locked up, thus the argument that forcing them to stay inside indefinitely keeps them alive doesn't fully hold up.

That's exactly why I proposed that thing about small "social bubbles". Keep in contact with a few people who try to keep that group as exclusive as humanly possible. And, no, school under regular circumstances is not a small social bubble, it's the equivalent of a hot-air balloon.

 

Not to mention that, at least around here, most students above primary school age use public transportation to get to and from school. During rush hour. Which means the buses and trains and whatnot are packed. There usually isn't any distance between people standing next to each other. Is this different where you're from?

 

6 hours ago, Fuzzbucket said:

Sorry - but the mental health issue among children that is growing exponentially is far more worrying than the risk of infection.

Are these issues really growing exponentially? And the issues that do grow (whether exponentially or not), can't they be solved in a way that does not include putting kids at high risk? (Not to mention the rest of their family and whoever their family members are in contact with.)

 

47 minutes ago, Daydreamer09 said:

1. Yeah, my point was your hypocrisy of pointing at everyone else, saying nobody has a solution when you give off the attitude it's impossible. Like, seriously.

2. Coming from a medical family, I am flummoxed how you don't see the long term value in education. 

3. Stop using "apples to oranges" You are using it wrong. It's used when you are comparing two DRASTICALLY different things.

4. You can't keep kids in a bubble. That's not possible, sane or logical. They have to take risks in life.

Might not be addressed at me, but I'd like to offer a few counterpoints, too.

1. Frankly, there is no perfect solution. At least not yet. I think the best we can do is use all our resources to the best and socialize from a distance (skype, chats, whatsapp, phone calls) wherever possible. Keep our contacts to a minimum, but cover the bases (like enabling contact between children that aren't siblings - play dates are important). School, however, can wait for a year if necessary. I don't know how things work in the US, but in Germany, it's quite possible to retake a school year.
2. Don't get me wrong, education is valuable. Very valuable. So is a human life. A life lost cannot be returned, but a year of education lost can be made up for. Yes, kids would be losing a year. It's still better than losing the rest of their lives.
3. You're right, apples to oranges doesn't really begin to cover the comparison between lives/socialization/education. It's more like apples to starfish to chicken eggs. Absolutely no comparison.
4. Risks can get you killed. I've had this discussion with one of my professors for educational science. He seriously said something like "You need to let kids do their thing. They might die, but they have the right to do so." Nope. As a parent, it's your responsibility to take care of your child. If you had a small child and you saw them start running in front of a speeding car, would you let them so they can experience their freedom (one last time before the crash)? Or would you stop them so they have a long time to experience way more freedom?

[Daydreamer09]

20 minutes ago, AngelsSin said:

 

@Daydreamer.

 My mental state is just fine thank you very much. There is zero to worry about there and what you stated was me using sarcasm very heavy on the sarcasm.I feel very strongly about the protection and well being of children and will always strongly state my feelings on such. Don't misinterpret that as I might be having some sort of meltdown. That's me reading between your lines.

You wrote 11 paragraphs in one post just to dig your heels into your stance, so yeah. 'Course I'd be concerned that you're getting stressed.

 

@olympe

 

But when it comes to lives/socializing/education, all those things intersect each other and are interconnected. Kids watch educational shows about how to be kind and make friends. They need friends to be mentally happy and healthy. Life decisions are made from learning about the world. Personally I can't grasp putting a hard line dividing them.

And I apologize if it came off as if I was promoting recklessness. You can't protect children from everything was more was what I was getting at. At some point you are over protective (everyone draws that line in different places to be fair).

[AngelsSin]

@olympe.

😻

Everything you said I completely agree with. I am fine with small social bubbles with safety measures taken . I good with kids being allowed out doors or even parks to get them outside and having activities but the sheer ways that putting them in school poses with those risks I can't get on board with. Sending them to physically be in school is what I have a problem with.

 

@Daydreamer.

Well your concern is completely misguided. I simply had a lot to say on the subject. And nothing to do with me being stressed, or my well-being, or mental state. just to be clear. Sometimes I just have more to say than others so you are way off base.

 

@Astreya.

Any knowledge on how long those issues were going on beforehand? To put it in perspective. There are many factors that going into whether a suicide attempt is made you can't just blame it on the lockdown. I have no doubt that the lockdown contributes to it but I don't believe having gone through it that it is or was the main contributing factor but like I said every case is different and I don't claim to understand every aspect of it, everyone thinks different and clearly the thinking of some is foreign to me. And I was socially isolated so I do understand that aspect. In a high stress environment with abuse. And even with all that I still can't agree to putting kids in school. When I was younger I looked forward to school to get out of my environment (as I had a lot of good friends which helped not all kids are that lucky with friends at school) but school isn't as great for that as you get older and only puts more stress on you when you are going through those issues. That's spoken from experience. And school can make it worse for those who get bullied at school. And schools are notoriously bad at dealing with bullying. In the end for me my home environment caused me to miss school and I almost ended up with an ulcer. Affecting my physical health removing myself from school for me was the best decision. I chose night school. And eventually got my ged. I educated myself outside of school. Most of my teachers didn't even teach so I hadn't actually learned anything for a while in school. It became a waste of my time and an added stress factor in my life. I actually slept during geometry and algebra,etc and still aced everything. I even went into a dropout prevention program and blew through all the material they had to work with in a short amount of time and they kicked me out cause they didn't know what to do with me since they had no more to teach me. The education system is deeply flawed.

Edited July 4, 2020 by AngelsSin

[Astreya]

1 hour ago, AngelsSin said:

I said in my post there is no perfect solution. That issue doesn't change my mind at all.

I still stand by everything I said and I know about the mental health aspect as I struggled with it for a very long time myself from a very young age that doesn't happen over night neither does becoming suicidal and even after becoming suicidal it takes time to progress to the point of acting on it and help can be gotten online for those suffering from that, something that wasn't possible when I was young. I was depressed and became suicidal and suffered from that for several decades. It takes time to get to the stage of acting on those feelings and a year isn't gonna do that in the majority of cases. The percentage is very small for those to act on it in such a short time frame and others likely just weren't made aware of the issues were going on long before they were made aware of it.I

I am well aware of the struggle to regain mental health. Doesn't change my mind one bit. As someone who went through it I have that perspective on how it progresses and how hard it is to get back to normal.

 

While I acknowledge what you had to go through, it appears that there already have been several suicides of children that seem to be connected to the Covid-19 lockdown, no matter the possible help available:

Quote

A report to the Kent and Medway CCG revealed there had been seven attempts by children aged between 13 and 17 to take their own lives between March and May this year. Sadly, three of them resulted in deaths.

 

The youngsters were from different areas of the county and not all of them had previously accessed mental health services.

However, the CCG says lockdown measures had "seemingly exacerbated" existing issues.

 

Its findings - first reported on by the Health Service Journal - add that a "range of different factors" contributed to the suicide attempts and deaths.

 

Referring to the “cluster” of deaths, it says: “These appear to include conditions that impact on impulse control, special needs, domestic violence, mental illness, each seemingly exacerbated by lockdown.”

Source: https://www.kentonline.co.uk/kent/news/lockdown-contributed-to-suicides-of-three-teenagers-228000/

[Astreya]

@AngelsSin

Unfortunately there was no additional information available. But if the mental issues were there beforehand and the Covid-19 lockdown tipped them into actually committing suicide, this would be pretty much identical to the situation if there is someone with underlying physical health issues and it is the virus that then causes the death due to them.

 

Edited July 4, 2020 by Astreya

[dragon_mando]

15 minutes ago, Daydreamer09 said:

You can't protect children from everything was more was what I was getting at. At some point you are over protective (everyone draws that line in different places to be fair).

 

Everyone should draw the line at risks that are fatal to their children and potentially anyone their children come in contact with. Hard stop.

[purpledragonclaw]

35 minutes ago, olympe said:

That's exactly why I proposed that thing about small "social bubbles". Keep in contact with a few people who try to keep that group as exclusive as humanly possible. And, no, school under regular circumstances is not a small social bubble, it's the equivalent of a hot-air balloon.

 

Not to mention that, at least around here, most students above primary school age use public transportation to get to and from school. During rush hour. Which means the buses and trains and whatnot are packed. There usually isn't any distance between people standing next to each other. Is this different where you're from?

 

In my state, classrooms are 40 kids deep, K-12, and most students are driven to classes. The bus system I used as a kid is non-existent now, at least in my area. Some counties' students use public transit instead, but not here. Busses are used for field trips and that's about it. With classrooms this overcrowded, distancing isn't possible.

 

An in-person meeting in Santa Clara county, CA about re-opening the schools resulted in attendees being exposed to coronavirus. This was on June 19th, and one of the attendees tested positive days later. Social distancing and masks were being used at the meeting. One thing I'm really worried about is the teachers, who tend to be in the higher-risk age ranges for coronavirus, being protected from their students, who are more likely to be asymptomatic carriers. I have yet to see anything addressing my concerns there. I don't know why they decided to hold an in-person meeting about this when cases are spiking in California right now, but this story is a good example of why I feel it's too early to send kids back to school right now.

 

Many others have already touched on my thoughts here regarding returning kids to school. Many kids also rely on schools for their meals; a number of children are at-risk of going without food with no school given how many households have food insecurities. I think, in America at least, it's too early for us to send them back, but homeschooling your kids is not an option for all parents. I don't know how we're going to fix this right now, and I have no answers. I am in agreement, though, that online learning is not a solution for this. You don't learn social skills by Zoom. Especially in their formative years, kids need to socialize, they need that psychological development. I didn't embrace online learning until college, and at that point it was fine for me, but elementary through high school it would not have worked (for me, at least). 

[AngelsSin]

Most of kids in Florida have to take the bus, their parents either can't drive them to school because of work or have the time or simply don't have transportation themselves. The fact that they couldn't even keep from having an outbreak during a meeting to talk about what to do about kids and schools just illustrates my point. Another solution needs to be found. Online learning isn't perfect either. No solution to date so far is.

It's insane to me to even consider it when Florida has decided to pretty much everyday to top our previous record. I would love to go find a solution that works for all but this might be one of those that the solution might be to have a fragmented piecemeal solution. And the education system restructured completely. Those whose online schooling works for them can remain with online schooling, maybe schooling where you are there physically be done in an outdoor setting with a severely limited number of students and distancing being mandated With every safety measure being strictly enforced. But kids physically en mass at school indoors is not doable IMO but I'm no expert.

 I really do feel for those who need the physical social contact but until a solution is found the risk IMO is just too high.I

As Well as those who depend on school lunch, I have heard of programs that deliver food to those kids who depend on the school lunch though. So people are figuring some things out. Maybe more things would be figured out if people stop assuming that this is gonna be fixed in a short time frame.

Edited July 4, 2020 by AngelsSin

[olympe]

58 minutes ago, purpledragonclaw said:

Many others have already touched on my thoughts here regarding returning kids to school. Many kids also rely on schools for their meals; a number of children are at-risk of going without food with no school given how many households have food insecurities. I think, in America at least, it's too early for us to send them back, but homeschooling your kids is not an option for all parents. I don't know how we're going to fix this right now, and I have no answers. I am in agreement, though, that online learning is not a solution for this. You don't learn social skills by Zoom. Especially in their formative years, kids need to socialize, they need that psychological development. I didn't embrace online learning until college, and at that point it was fine for me, but elementary through high school it would not have worked (for me, at least). 

Online learning for those who don't want to attend school (or have parents who don't want them to go) could be one way to de-crowd schools, thereby increasing distance between students and decreasing the chance of covid spreading. Same goes for homeschooling. Parents who can and want to do it should. Neither solution is perfect, but both could play their part in an overall improvement.

 

1 hour ago, purpledragonclaw said:

Especially in their formative years, kids need to socialize, they need that psychological development. I didn't embrace online learning until college, and at that point it was fine for me, but elementary through high school it would not have worked (for me, at least). 

If that had been an option for me, I'd gladly have taken it up from 2nd grade. Because of bullying (that included my class teacher), pretty much every single day. Because it didn't stop at bullying, but got rather physical on occasion. Because of being ignored by my teacher most of the time, even when I was the only one who wanted to answer. Because of my teachers usually playing favorites. (Hint: I was the opposite of favorite.) 

So, which social skills did I learn during those formative years?

• If you want to be seen/heard, you need to be obnoxious, or you'll be ingored.
• Don't open up to anyone, it's showing weakness that bullies will exploit. No exception.
• Don't show your feelings, or the bullies will use them against you. And it will be your fault.
• Stay as far away from groups of people as you can, or you'll be bullied. Maybe beaten. Just for existing. And it will be your fault for not staying away. (How dare you exist, anyway?)
• If a fellow student has sweets (or whatever) to share, get as far away as possible. You'll either be ignored or mocked. You certainly won't get anything. And, of course, it will be your fault.
• Bullies won't get punished, not even when caught red-handed. And besides, teacher will always argue that it's your fault anyway.

Yeah, I could have done without that kind of "socializing". I'm nearing 40, and still haven't gotten out of some habits I acquired through this "socialization". And, just in case you wonder: I did think about commiting suicide at the ripe old age of nine. **** socializing!

[AngelsSin]

1 hour ago, olympe said:

Online learning for those who don't want to attend school (or have parents who don't want them to go) could be one way to de-crowd schools, thereby increasing distance between students and decreasing the chance of covid spreading. Same goes for homeschooling. Parents who can and want to do it should. Neither solution is perfect, but both could play their part in an overall improvement.

 

If that had been an option for me, I'd gladly have taken it up from 2nd grade. Because of bullying (that included my class teacher), pretty much every single day. Because it didn't stop at bullying, but got rather physical on occasion. Because of being ignored by my teacher most of the time, even when I was the only one who wanted to answer. Because of my teachers usually playing favorites. (Hint: I was the opposite of favorite.) 

So, which social skills did I learn during those formative years?

• If you want to be seen/heard, you need to be obnoxious, or you'll be ingored.
• Don't open up to anyone, it's showing weakness that bullies will exploit. No exception.
• Don't show your feelings, or the bullies will use them against you. And it will be your fault.
• Stay as far away from groups of people as you can, or you'll be bullied. Maybe beaten. Just for existing. And it will be your fault for not staying away. (How dare you exist, anyway?)
• If a fellow student has sweets (or whatever) to share, get as far away as possible. You'll either be ignored or mocked. You certainly won't get anything. And, of course, it will be your fault.
• Bullies won't get punished, not even when caught red-handed. And besides, teacher will always argue that it's your fault anyway.

Yeah, I could have done without that kind of "socializing". I'm nearing 40, and still haven't gotten out of some habits I acquired through this "socialization". And, just in case you wonder: I did think about commiting suicide at the ripe old age of nine. socializing!

Same for me. I would have taken to online learning like fish to water. I'm envious of kids nowadays who have easy access to a wide range of information at their fingertips something I did not have till I was an adult.

I experienced physical abuse and verbal abuse from teachers as well, school isn't always the safe place people like to make it out as. That makes learning harder when no one has your back at school. And kids can be judgemental jerks at every age. I was sexually abused in school as well at a young age by boys in school. It's good some had a better experience at school but not everyone has that experience and if you think that didn't adversely affect me obviously you'd be wrong. Pedophiles and sexual predators are kids at some point in their lives and they start young. I could have done with out those "social experiences" and I'm not some isolated incident. I heard plenty of reports of girls being sexually assaulted in bathrooms, hallways, stairways, etc, sometimes by multiple assailants, Or by teachers themselves. That's not to say all my school experiences were horrible but it does color how you feel about school as being this great social experience. I've had many good experiences too but as with a lot of thing the bad experiences are stronger than the good. I'd actually put out of my head what happened to me in school. I don't usually keep such experiences in the forefront of my mind. I don't let it affect my life anymore it's more like it happened to someone else now. Coping mechanism.

Edited July 5, 2020 by AngelsSin

[DuskOfTheStars]

My two cents on socialisation at school: it really depends. I learned jack about socialisation at school because of my brain wiring meaning I didn't know how to talk to people. Guess what? That only compounded. I was always the kid looking in through a window at the others and not understanding how any of it worked. No one taught me how it worked - you were supposed to just figure it out, and I couldn't. I needed alone time at lunch... also the only time I could socialise with other kids. (I also had a couple teachers who screamed at me or the class. I still hate Braille because of that. Nor do I have fond kindergarten memories.) Though, because of the way my brain is wired, online school works fine as long as I'm not in my house - after problems with a teacher who absolutely refused to accomodate my disabilities, I had to take online History. It worked a lot better. But the COVID school lockdown was just... too disorganised. And it was hard to focus in my house, in my room. I couldn't focus at all & barely got anything out of online class.

 

One disclaimer to my experience: I have autism and vision+hearing loss.

 

I won't really comment further on the issue - mostly because I do not have any good ideas for a solution. I will note, though, that in my area a lot of kids depended on school for meals, to the point where my school had hours literally just for breakfast during COVID school closures.

Edited July 5, 2020 by DuskOfTheStars

[Astreya]

There is one more casualty of Covid-19 in Oberhausen. A 68-year old man, who is not reported to have had other underlying factors (in all of the other cases here the city crisis staff did mention this).

 

Daily update for Oberhausen, NRW, Germany:

 

As of today, Sunday, July 5, 10:00 GMT+2,  my home town (population 211 000) has 20 active cases, while 271 people have recovered. All in all there have been 303 people who suffered from Covid-19 since the beginning of the pandemic. The number of newly infected people per 100 000 citizens in the last 7 days is 3,3.

 

Currently 3 persons are treated in hospitals, none of them in intensive care. 12 persons sadly died. 80 persons are currently quarantined. All in all there have been 14 292 Covid-19 tests in Oberhausen up to Saturday, July 4.

 

Source: https://www.oberhausen.de/de/index/rathaus/verwaltung/umwelt-gesundheit-und-mobilitat/gesundheit/aktuelle_informationen/informationen_zum_coronavirus/aktuelle_meldungen.php

[dragon_mando]

As of today, in my state, there are 13,063 confirmed positive cases out of 372,288 tests. 1,988 of those have been hospitalized and 513 have died. My city has has 2,410 of those cases and 87 of the deaths. 212 of the cases have been in my immediate neighborhood. 976 of the confirmed cases in my state are in prisons and ICE facilities.

 

This is the breakdown of affected ages in my county:

And the state-wide breakdown:

 

Edit: In my school district, there are 14 highschools alone and how you get to school varies widely by school. Most, though, are either taking the bus or public transit overall. At the school I work with, most parents do not have vehicles of their own and no way to bring kids to a physical location without getting on crammed buses with them. I'm not sure we even have public transit running right now. We have the highest rate of teachers over 60 in the country and have massive shortages. I'm supposed to be starting to teach soon and have pre-existing conditions, and I'm not even quite half that age. So do most of the younger school staff I know. We can't afford to have any teachers keeling over, let alone a huge chunk.

Edited July 5, 2020 by dragon_mando

[olympe]

@dragon_mando Looks like the kids and teens in your home county are quite sheltered (lots of homeschooling?), but the young adults that are just out of their parents' control go wild. Your county wouldn't happen to be very religious, per chance?  

[dragon_mando]

Just now, olympe said:

@dragon_mando Looks like the kids and teens in your home county are quite sheltered (lots of homeschooling?), but the young adults that are just out of their parents' control go wild. Your county wouldn't happen to be very religious, per chance?  

It's mostly because it's summer break and there's nowhere for kids to go. School won't be in session for another month. It's also considered a very dangerous city (the city takes up the whole county) with one of the highest murder rates per capita in the US. Hardly anyone lets their kids outside at the best of times.

[olympe]

@dragon_mando Well, I guess there are other reasons for most parents being very controlling, after all. I never saw that one coming.  

[Astreya]

I'm just watching a press conference where Ministerpräsident Söder of Bavaria and several scientists present the large study "COVID Kids Bavaria" which they start today to monitor a large number of children for about six months and how they relate to Covid-19. When the schools and kindergartens get reopened in Bavaria, the six Bavarian state university hospitals will monitor the kids to get an understanding how infectious kids are and how they possibly spread the infection so that they then know for sure what exactly are the dangers in this context.

 

They will send out about 14 000 questionnaires and do at least 14 000 tests to get their results. The questionnaires will address both physical and psychological health of the kids. The questionnaires will not only addressed at the parents, but the kids get their own questionnaires as well so that the scientists get direct answers from them, too, that are no influenced by the parents.

 

------------------------

Daily update for Oberhausen, NRW, Germany:

 

As of today, Monday, July 6, 10:00 GMT+2,  my home town (population 211 000) has 17 active cases, while 274 people have recovered. All in all there have been 303 people who suffered from Covid-19 since the beginning of the pandemic. The number of newly infected people per 100 000 citizens in the last 7 days is 3,3.

 

Currently 1 persons is treated in a hospital, none of them in intensive care. 12 persons sadly died. 66 persons are currently quarantined.

 

Source: https://www.oberhausen.de/de/index/rathaus/verwaltung/umwelt-gesundheit-und-mobilitat/gesundheit/aktuelle_informationen/informationen_zum_coronavirus/aktuelle_meldungen.php

Edited July 6, 2020 by Astreya

[AngelsSin]

My county as of July first finally put a mask mandate in place which I am thrilled about. Thank the PTB (powers that be)

 

I saw a report on a school that wanted to reopen without masks not sure what if any safety precautions they planned to take and the parents were in an uproar over this. Good parents IMO.

I'm gonna be honest I'm not sure how sending kids back to school even with the best of safety precautions in place doesn't fall under child endangerment laws.  Not sure if anyone has even considered it in that light. I don't know the laws for other countries on this or whether such would Even hold up in court especially in a Trump run country. 

Don't really like that scientists are willing to essentially experiment with kids on this or the parents that allow it to happen, clearly I feel extremely strongly on this subject. Nor am I sure how they can guarantee that the answers won't be influenced by the parents, I mean the parents can literally stand over their kids shoulders to ensure nothing is written that they don't like.

On the positive side I did see a report from a therapist on ideas to pick up/notice and have ways to report anything noticed by teachers online with their students which I think is a brilliant idea. Reporting to their parents or authorities,etc. As well as to get them support if it is needed including from telehealth.

 

Also I'm disappointed that people aren't teaching the kids of this world better if any coping skills. This is clearly something that needs to be addressed. Schools might want to think about having classes just to teach such skills and starting at a young age when they can safely reopen key word safely.

Edited July 6, 2020 by AngelsSin

[Fuzzbucket]

If you had a teenaged autistic relative who was VERY close to suicide two weeks ago, as a direct result of lockdown (and who was not alone) you might modify that line. You can't teach all kids "coping mechanisms"for every possible situation - he certainly has quite enough coping to do with the autism.

 

Nor could anyone have foreseen having to teach kids to cope with being effectively imprisoned along with their parents and siblings. One teaches one's kids coping mechanisms for life. This was far from anything one could ever have imagined needing to teach them to cope with. How do you teach them (at this time, a new thing to learn) to stay right away from other people to avoid infection - and then that it's suddenly OK to be around your grandparents now ?

 

You are being far too simplistic here.

[AngelsSin]

Considering the sheer amount of kids who lack coping skills their parents aren't teaching those and I certainly wasn't taught them and obviously that was a generalization not meant to include those severely autistic and those with social and learning disabilities obviously special ideas/solutions will be needed for them. My statement was not meant to include all kids but since a lot lack those skills someone needs to pick up the obvious slack and whether that falls on schools it still needs be addressed by someone and since the majority of kids did Pre-covid did go to school it makes sense for it to be schools that is just my opinion and I'm sure a lot of parents lack those coping skills as well so how are they gonna teach something they might not know themselves as they likely were never thought it themselves. You all want to go on about their mental needs which I do support just not at the risk of their lives and nothing will change my mind on that but you offer no ideas for a solution besides put them back in school. I consider it child endangerment which I mentioned in my previous post. I've previously said "no solution is  perfect but clearly I need to repeat that statement. So " No Solution is Perfect. "  I was Merely making a suggestion on a possible solution to the obviously growing mental health crisis among the young and their lack of coping skills which simply by their growing numbers mean those kids clearly aren't being taught those by their no doubt extremely busy parents. And those numbers were growing long long before covid. So I don't know how anyone could say they didn't know it was a problem and no one could have foreseen the COVID pandemic and the issues that have arisen from it but we know that now and need to not forget once COVID is in the past that those same kids still need to be taught coping skills. I was talking about ideas for that after COVID not now. And I don't agree with them being allowed around their grandparents who are clearly gonna be high risk. There is nothing simple about this issue. You are being way too extreme in your examples. Am I supposed to  all on my own to come up with every single aspect of this problem to know every single aspect and come up with the solution. You can instead of just blanket tearing down anything I say talk about how it is good and what specifics need to be worked on and give me time to work it out or help work it out and offer your own solutions. Cause given enough time I will figure something out that obviously won't be perfect but at least has a possibility of working for most. Special ideas will be needed for special situations like with autism. I was making a generalized suggestion for a solution for the majority.  It was obviously a general statement by its lack of specifics. By all means you give a suggestion on how to figure out a workable solution that puts no one at risk while dealing with every angle rather than nitpick in a very specific instance when I was giving suggestions for a partial solution.

And no you can't teach how to deal with every situation but coping skills work on your emotional state not the situation and are pretty adaptable. And you can get therapists to teach those classes as they are able to answer questions and have answers to deal with a lot of the situations that come up its kinda their job and can schedule time for one on one sessions and I assume that school counselors might even be capable of filling most those roles and if incapable of dealing in specialized situations like those who are autistic they can bring the therapists in to deal with that I assume they have special classes for those with disabilities. I might be arguing about the issues but at least I'm trying to come up with a solution as well, not just complaining.

Edited July 6, 2020 by AngelsSin

[Astreya]

Well, Mr.Trump obviously doesn't care for anything but his re-election and just tweeted this:

 

How's your bet that his governor sycophants will do exactly as he demands?

[AngelsSin]

A bit of info that illustrates my point on school and kids and COVID from my own state by officials.

Source:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/you-cant-reopen-florida-schools-when-thousands-of-children-are-infected-with-covid/ar-BB16i5Bn

 

I'm just curious our officials here claim it can't be done. Just wondering how many kids dying from COVID is an acceptable number cause for me none is the answer. Right now the numbers are relatively low for kids dying but that's with them isolating at home mostly. But COVID is ramping up.  You put kids in school those numbers are gonna rise. So the question is how many dead kids are ok for you what percentage starts to become too many for you? This is not for anyone specific. I vote 0.

 

@Astreya.

The fact Trump is so gung ho for it should tell everyone it's a huge mistake. IMO.

Edited July 6, 2020 by AngelsSin

[KrazyKarp]

We all are in perfect agreement there's no perfect solution to the education issue. As most things with covid, it's a very entrenched argument and to each their own. Parents, and students old enough to decide themselves, need to have as many options as possible available to them. Schools absolutely need to physically reopen. That doesn't mean physically being there would be compulsory, but for those students like me who are more scared of another semester online than covid, we need that option. For younger students, that's the parent's decision. For those not comfortable being physically in school or not comfortable sending their kids physically to school, an online option would need to be present. Or perhaps more of a hybrid option would appeal to people (this is what my college is doing). And a small percentage of parents are capable of homeschooling, provided younger kids are able to socialize in some way with other people outside their family. Even if it's just one or two other kids they can socialize with.

 

But I'm still of the opinion that it's far riskier to go online, depending on individual situations. For example, if parents need to work all day and can't find a sitter, you can't leave your 5 year old home alone all day. In that case, you might as well send them to school physically. Otherwise, you're sending them to a daycare or something with other kids, which isn't any better.

 

tl;dr in an entrenched argument like this you just need as many options open as possible, and what works for each student heavily depends on their individual situations

[olympe]

12 minutes ago, KrazyKarp said:

in an entrenched argument like this you just need as many options open as possible, and what works for each student heavily depends on their individual situations

Amen to that. Options are everybody's friend.

 

23 minutes ago, AngelsSin said:

The fact Trump is so gung ho for it should tell everyone it's a huge mistake. IMO.

If only more people realized that. But, seeing how things work in politics, the governours will probably go with opening schools if they're Reps. Maybe not if they're Dems, but then there'll be lawsuits by the citizens, which will then lead to reopening schools anyway. 

[AngelsSin]

Lol @olympe at least the superintendent of schools for the city of Miami-Dade admitted it isn't possible to socially distance at school and with thousands of kids in our state that we know of infected with COVID it's as the article states a fool's errand. I stand by one of my previous statements for extremely limited numbers of kids to be in school but in an outdoor setting with strict distance and other safety measures for instances like @KrazyKarp indicated with parents who need to work and can't say afford daycare with all the apps to find childcare out there I don't see how someone can't find a babysitter, which would limit there child's exposure to one person as opposed to countless? People at school. I don't see how online is riskier for anyone other than for parents who can't afford daycare though, that one baffles me. Believe it or not I'm trying to stimulate people to talk about the issue to come up with better ideas rather than just send them back to school. I don't want ideas to just be shot down I want real alternatives to be discussed since the ones being talked about just don't cut it IMO. Cause people deciding to send their kids to school or the hybrid options still will have a high number of kids exposed to each other and the numerous teachers and staff running the school and the issues with daycares shows just how bad those options are.  And the article I listed in my previous post states just how difficult it will be to protect at school that 5 yr old the parent can't find childcare for.  Maybe some soccer would be good for some outdoor activities, as it keeps them from touching things with their hands which would keep them from needing everyone's hands and items to be disinfected as with other activities. But I just don't see how being indoors with what likely will be large numbers of kids in a small enclosed space is anything but a tragedy waiting to happen. Maybe some desks can be moved outdoors and they can space them out so they aren't indoors in a small space with numerous other people. Something other that what so many are apparently willing to accept for other people's kids. I understand rain or other weather could be a possibility and there are other potential issues with that as well. But to me it's still better than being inside at school which is guaranteed to spread COVID if even one child attending has it. Or the teacher or staff. Please feel free to float other options on this issue. It can then be brought to the officials if they haven't already thought of it.

Also I would love to see the statistics by country of child fatalities per cases of infected maybe by the month? To get a real idea of just how much the numbers could jump if kids are put back in school especially during these spikes. The very limited info on kids concerning COVID and fatalities vs kids infected per country that I can find are all months old.