Coronavirus Discussion

[Daydreamer09]

2 hours ago, Fuzzbucket said:

ON a lighter but dead serious note:

 

 

Haha, that's brilliant! 🤣

Best analogy I've heard.

 

@Astreya @olympe

I think a big, major part of misinformation being spread around is how easy it is to do so. Back in the 80s and 90s everyone was excited for the internet and how easily we could get information from it. But, problem groups can spread their skewed information easier too. It's a negative flip side.

[olympe]

1 hour ago, Daydreamer09 said:

 

@Astreya @olympe

I think a big, major part of misinformation being spread around is how easy it is to do so. Back in the 80s and 90s everyone was excited for the internet and how easily we could get information from it. But, problem groups can spread their skewed information easier too. It's a negative flip side.

True. But it means that it's our responsibility to educate ourselves an our children.

[trystan]

so: younger daughter is 19, and her college is still opening up for the fall - although they go back in the middle of august.  she's part of the age group that doesn't care, will go out and party, and she says it's those idiots who will get her sick, and she sure as heck doesn't want this thing.

 

short story slightly shorter, my boss thinks schools should open in the fall cause kids have "zero-zero-zero chance of dying" from this.  her health emails and shows tell her so.  a doctor on whatever show she was watching said that (probably Fox News, so there it is....)  she also says that the mortality rate if you're younger than 70 is 0% - unless you have underlying health conditions. i told her there was a runner - more like "what about all the healthy people? there was this runner, who now has long-term health problems." she says there was another person who thought they were healthy who had a heart attack because of an underlying condition they didn't know about. i asked her if she'd heard about the three teachers in arizona (2 were on CNN last night) they met in the school to plan for the fall, they all got sick and one died - they were young-looking.  Boss started to say something about underlying conditions, i said they're not going to give out that information...

 

she said if you've had certain kinds of colds you won't get covid, i said yeah, if you've had sars.  she said something about antibodies and herd immunity.  i said antibodies don't last that long.  my brother and his son were really sick at the end of March, and even though he'd been checking in with his state's health department, he never got tested.  in the middle of june, he had an antibody test, and there weren't any.  the antibodies only hang around for a month or two.  she also has said if you have a good immune system and no underlying conditions, it's just like a little flu.

 

i know i said something about the asymptomatic people, and i don't really know what she started to say, because i said if you're asymptomatic you're not going to know.

 

she also said something about everyone's fears being played on, but i don't remember where she went after that....

 

this is why i don't have many conversation with my boss.

 

the whole thing really started when i asked her if she knew anywhere one could get a trump sign.  the real reason is younger daughter wants to make a tiktok and she wants a real yard sign, so i asked. eventually i came out with this gem: younger daughter's boyfriend (who just finished with high school) knows someone who's going to be a senior in the fall, and it's for an american government class.  and then we started talking about school and the fall......

 

[also, some of you may see this post in another place here on the forum... just a heads up ]

[olympe]

1 hour ago, trystan said:

her health emails and shows tell her so.  a doctor on whatever show she was watching said that (probably Fox News, so there it is....)  she also says that the mortality rate if you're younger than 70 is 0% - unless you have underlying health conditions. i told her there was a runner - more like "what about all the healthy people? there was this runner, who now has long-term health problems." she says there was another person who thought they were healthy who had a heart attack because of an underlying condition they didn't know about. i asked her if she'd heard about the three teachers in arizona (2 were on CNN last night) they met in the school to plan for the fall, they all got sick and one died - they were young-looking.  Boss started to say something about underlying conditions, i said they're not going to give out that information...

And how do you know you or your daughter don't have any underlying health conditions you don't know about?  The one thing you do know, though, is that you don't want to find out about them the hard way.

 

1 hour ago, trystan said:

she also said something about everyone's fears being played on, but i don't remember where she went after that....

How so? And who profits from this in which way? And don't tell me the government profits from running the economy into a wall. Don't tell me that Big Pharma profits from all the masks people buy - these masks are mostly imported from China anway.

[trystan]

@olympe -  I know I have high blood pressure, and that is an underlying condition. My boss doesn't want to acknowledge that this thing may be very real. Until it hits my boss or her family, she won't realize it as such.

 

As for playing on people's fears, that's a republican tactic.  In the fifties and sixties, it was all against the communists.  In the present day, people of a different skin color and people not from America will be taking away your jobs. those are all republican tactics, which my boss is.

[olympe]

22 minutes ago, trystan said:

@olympe -  I know I have high blood pressure, and that is an underlying condition. My boss doesn't want to acknowledge that this thing may be very real. Until it hits my boss or her family, she won't realize it as such.

 

As for playing on people's fears, that's a republican tactic.  In the fifties and sixties, it was all against the communists.  In the present day, people of a different skin color and people not from America will be taking away your jobs. those are all republican tactics, which my boss is.

Most people underestimate the long-term effects of high blood pressure. I hope you have been prescribed medication and take it religiously. Even if you feel fine without it, it's meant to keep you healthy in the future.

 

That being said, you forgot quite a few fears the Reps or Trump are mongering at the moment - and I'm not willing to claim these additions make the list complete:

• Mexicans are to fear for bringing crime and drugs and nothing else.
• Masks are to fear because they take away your freedom.
• Muslims are to fear because they're all terrorists.
• Scientists are to fear because they always give a bleak outlook.
• Democrats are to fear because they're evil incarnate.
• Antifa are to fear because they're vandals and hooligans and anything in between.
• BLM protesters are to fear because they're either hooligans or looters.
• Shut-downs are to fear because they ruin the economy and take away your rights.
• Tik tok is to fear because it's Chinese spyware. (That might actually be 100% true.)

I'm sure I missed some.

[purplehaze]

10 hours ago, Fuzzbucket said:

ON a lighter but dead serious note:

Good illustration!

 

My daughter flew to Colorado in June with a group of her hubby's family. Now one of the group has tested positive for Covid-19. Hopefully he got it on the flight home (She was on another flight a day later.) or since he got back. His wife and daughter just got tested, but for some reason not his 2 sons who were also with them. No results for them, yet. I am worried for my daughter, although it is slightly past the two week incubation period since she got back and she has no symptoms. I feel like she should get tested just to be sure.

 

And a friend from church just tested positive. She works for McDonalds and also has been going to the county pool (which just reopened and now has closed again because 2 employees tested positive) for excercise for her arthritis. No way to really know where she got it, but I am afraid for her because she has a lot of underlying conditions. Her only symptom so far has been severe headaches.

[trystan]

2 hours ago, olympe said:

Most people underestimate the long-term effects of high blood pressure. I hope you have been prescribed medication and take it religiously. Even if you feel fine without it, it's meant to keep you healthy in the future.

oh yes.  i've been taking my prescribed meds for 10 years, i take it every night before bed.  my parents had/have high blood pressure, so part of it is hereditary.

 

2 hours ago, olympe said:

That being said, you forgot quite a few fears the Reps or Trump are mongering at the moment - and I'm not willing to claim these additions make the list complete:

<snip>

I'm sure I missed some.

LOL!  nah, tiktok is to fear because it ruined trump's Tulsa rally. my daughter already has her ticket for the NH rally, too  

 

{{hugs}} purplehaze

[olympe]

50 minutes ago, trystan said:

LOL!  nah, tiktok is to fear because it ruined trump's Tulsa rally. my daughter already has her ticket for the NH rally, too  

Considering the warning about tik tok came out before Trump declared it to be true, I'm more inclined to believe it. Although I wouldn't put it past Trump to use this argument despite either not believing it or having proof to the contrary because it suits his desire for vengeance.

[trystan]

20 minutes ago, olympe said:

I wouldn't put it past Trump to use this argument despite either not believing it or having proof to the contrary because it suits his desire for vengeance.

so that word that i bolded - pretty sure trump has no idea what this even is.....

[Lagie]

5 hours ago, olympe said:

And how do you know you or your daughter don't have any underlying health conditions you don't know about?  The one thing you do know, though, is that you don't want to find out about them the hard way.

Very true! I only recently learned I have a kidney disease that puts me at risk, but would never have known if I hadn't had an odd 'stitich in my side' that wouldn't go away so they did an ultrasound. It didn't show up in any of the usual annual tests. (And for the record I also have hypertension, and yes I do take my meds!)

 

And more cases here... one of the Grand Bahama cases is someone who works at Pizza Hut, so I imagine the contact tracing on that one will be a nightmare.

 

(We have a new category - non-Covid-related deaths - e.g. you have Covid but you get hit by a bus...)

[Astreya]

Looks like Mr.Trump does not only dislike Dr Anthony Fauci and his facts big time, but now he wants to make sure that the CDC won't have the proper data of the Covid-19 pandemic:

Quote

Trump Administration Strips C.D.C. of Control of Coronavirus Data

Hospitals have been ordered to bypass the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and send all patient information to a central database in Washington, raising questions about transparency.

Source: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/14/us/politics/coronavirus-data-trump-cdc.html

[trystan]

 

yeah, it's like that.

[olympe]

6 hours ago, Astreya said:

Looks like Mr.Trump does not only dislike Dr Anthony Fauci and his facts big time, but now he wants to make sure that the CDC won't have the proper data of the Covid-19 pandemic:

Source: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/14/us/politics/coronavirus-data-trump-cdc.html

In other words: He wants to be able to "beautify" the numbers to suit his agenda. Other "sensible" manipulations can also occur on behest of the nation's leader - like not counting covid deaths as such if there was an underlying health condition. And, let's be honest, 80% or so of the human population have an "underlying health condition" before dying. Whether these conditions have been there before covid struck or not. (Wait, he had a peanut allergy? Non-covid death for sure!) You could say that Trump instituted a Ministry of Truth in regards to covid.

 

Considering that the number of deaths in the US is ridiculously low compared to during the first wave, despite the facts that there are way more people affected and way more hospitals filled to the brim - well, I don't trust the current data 100%, either. But that's another story.

Edited July 15, 2020 by olympe

[Astreya]

@olympe

Just the same as the other autocratic/populist ruled countries do (Brazil, Russia, China, UK...). In the end the only number that can't be hidden will be the excess mortality, but this will only show up quite a bit later.

 

---------------------------

I absolutely don't like it that it seems that the number of new infections here is slowly creeping upwards again. Plus it seems that there is an increase of the not so light cases as there are 4 people in hospitals again.

 

Daily update for Oberhausen, NRW, Germany:

 

As of today, Wednesday, July 15, 10:00 GMT+2,  my home town (population 211 000) has 17 active cases, while 294 people have recovered. All in all there have been 323 people who suffered from Covid-19 since the beginning of the pandemic. The number of newly infected people per 100 000 citizens in the last 7 days is 5.2.

 

Currently 4 persons are treated in hospitals, none of them in intensive care. 12 persons sadly died. 57 persons are currently quarantined. All in all there have been 15 358 Covid-19 tests in Oberhausen up to Tuesday, July 14.

 

Source: https://www.oberhausen.de/de/index/rathaus/verwaltung/umwelt-gesundheit-und-mobilitat/gesundheit/aktuelle_informationen/informationen_zum_coronavirus/aktuelle_meldungen.php

Edited July 15, 2020 by Astreya

[Kith]

Looks like Moderna's vaccine-in-training has its phase 1 results out now, also showing a dropoff in antibody response after a certain point, though the full production/decline cycle has yet to be determined. Since T cells and other mechanisms are also involved in conveying immunity, it's unknown how long-term the possible protective period would be. Hopefully they'll be continuing to collect data on the full spectrum of immune response and not just antibodies so proper projections can be estimated.

 

Lots of technical terminology in the descriptions, but there's more plain language in the analysis: https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2020/07/15/modernas-phase-i-data

[Fuzzbucket]

And now the anti-masks brigade are saying that the virus will spread through discarded masks in the garbage....

[trystan]

7 minutes ago, Fuzzbucket said:

And now the anti-masks brigade are saying that the virus will spread through discarded masks in the garbage....

i refer you to my gif up-thread and back a page that i posted.

 

one thing i've observed, and this is by no means scientific at all - this pandemic has brought out either the very best or the most absolute selfish in people.  maybe we're seeing more of the selfish/deniers/conspiracy theorists because they're louder and recorded more (and they're in the US government too. ugh), but all the good that people have been doing just seems to be getting swept aside.

 

Edited July 15, 2020 by trystan
clarity

[olympe]

5 minutes ago, trystan said:

i refer you to my gif up-thread and back a page that i posted.

 

one thing i've observed, and this is by no means scientific at all - this pandemic has brought out either the very best or the most absolute selfish in people.  maybe we're seeing more of the selfish/deniers/conspiracy theorists because they're louder and recorded more (and they're in the US government too. ugh), but all the good that people have been doing just seems to be getting swept aside.

 

The evil that men do lives after them, the good is oft interred with their bones.  

[trystan]

5 minutes ago, olympe said:

The evil that men do lives after them, the good is oft interred with their bones.  

well that is just sad  

[Daydreamer09]

So far in the US Moderna's vaccine is looking promising in trials. Will have to see how the next phase goes.

 

[AngelsSin]

Actually the Moderna trials are a bit of a mixed bag. From what I've heard they had a lot of side effects some that needed hospitalization From the higher dose of the vaccine (200 cc I believe) which they discontinued. And they are using healthy people with no underlying condition from ages ranging from 18-55 years old. One expert explained it as if the higher dose had side effects in healthy people even the lower doses had some side effects as well and since people react differently to medicines you can expect people to Also have bad reactions to the lower doses especially given we don't know how people who are older or with underlying conditions will react to it given they are left out of the trial. 

Imo I am disappointed in the trial results, I would have liked to see better results.

 

Also Florida keeps topping our previous new cases record today's numbers are 19,375.😭  they just changed the numbers again it's now 10,181. 

Hopefully it's not legal for Trump to force the hospitals to send their info to the White House first so he can cook the numbers. It's beyond disturbing to not give it to the CDC and I don't think anything good will come of this. If this keeps up we are screwed. I am becoming more and more sure Trump actually wants people to keep dying from this.

Edited July 15, 2020 by AngelsSin

[Daydreamer09]

13 minutes ago, AngelsSin said:

Actually the Moderna trials are a bit of a mixed bag. From what I've heard they had a lot of side effects some that needed hospitalization From the higher dose of the vaccine (200 cc I believe) which they discontinued. And they are using healthy people with no underlying condition from ages ranging from 18-55 years old. One expert explained it as if the higher dose had side effects in healthy people even the lower doses had some side effects as well and since people react differently to medicines you can expect people to Also have bad reactions to the lower doses especially given we don't know how people who are older or with underlying conditions will react to it given they are left out of the trial. 

Imo I am disappointed in the trial results, I would have liked to see better results.

It did sound strange to me that they would be using less than 50 people to test the vaccine. A larger sample size would make more sense for the reasons that you mentioned.

[Kith]

There's also the issue that both the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines are two-dose injections. As far as I've been tracking, we don't have a single-dose candidate that's finished phase I testing as of yet, so we'll have to see if that's a possibility plus how the body reacts to a single vs multiple treatment regimen over the different phases of testing. The immune responses so far are pretty robust after the second dose (side effects also becoming more prevalent/stronger, of course), but the profile of the responses may or may not confer the sort of long-term protection we're looking for.

 

ETA: They have to test small at first to make sure that there are no unexpectedly severe adverse reactions. The doses are also done in waves per testing group to make sure they don't need to stop a dosage test early.

 

ETA 2: To go with my link from earlier, more T cell data that may suggest that that section of the immune system may be more indicative of long-term protection than antibody count>
https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2020/07/15/new-data-on-t-cells-and-the-coronavirus

Edited July 15, 2020 by Kith

[AngelsSin]

11 minutes ago, Kith said:

There's also the issue that both the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines are two-dose injections. As far as I've been tracking, we don't have a single-dose candidate that's finished phase I testing as of yet, so we'll have to see if that's a possibility plus how the body reacts to a single vs multiple treatment regimen over the different phases of testing. The immune responses so far are pretty robust after the second dose (side effects also becoming more prevalent/stronger, of course), but the profile of the responses may or may not confer the sort of long-term protection we're looking for.

 

ETA: They have to test small at first to make sure that there are no unexpectedly severe adverse reactions. The doses are also done in waves per testing group to make sure they don't need to stop a dosage test early.

 

Your right I believe I remember hearing that the first dose didn't create a significant reaction to the vaccine but they got better reactions after the second dose. And the next phase of the trials will include more people not sure if the next phase will include those who are older or have underlying conditions which to me seem an important factor since so many have underlying conditions. Still the fact it has a good amount of side effects is still sobering. And the higher doses had to be taken out of the trial, which to me is worrying. I'm one of those people who sometimes unexpectedly react badly to a new medicine.

Edited July 15, 2020 by AngelsSin