Coronavirus Discussion

[AngelsSin]

Florida has hit a new high for new cases with 15,300. Some of this might be from people going out and partying for the 4th of July and I expect to see the numbers continuing to rise. We definitely have a lot of not so smart people here.

 

I have to admit if a vaccine comes out but needs to be given every couple of months that will probably be too much for my fear of needles to handle. It is something I was already worried about when I heard about that antibodies weren't lasting all that long in a lot of people. Pretty much from the beginning I wasn't putting my faith in vaccines being the magic bullet. For me I'm putting more of my hopes in them learning about the disease and coming up with better treatments.

 

Trump starting this anti-truth movement is detrimental to us successfully beating this pandemic. Anti-truth has always been a part of our world but he turned it into a movement. There is a saying that i am fond of  "Truth against the World" Just because something is a popular belief doesn't mean it's right of true. People in our world once believed that the Sun revolved around the Earth, and that the world was flat and if you sailed too far in any direction you would fall off the end of the world, now we know those things aren't true but the were once the popular belief. Let's hope it doesn't take as long for Trump's anti-truths to be debunked and buried. While a lot of us know what he says isn't true, way too many believe what he says and takes it for fact.

 

Also if I got anything wrong give me some leeway as I have a pretty bad headache I've had since last night and am more prone to get things wrong when my head hurts.

Edited July 12, 2020 by AngelsSin

[olympe]

21 minutes ago, AngelsSin said:

While a lot of us know what he says isn't true, way too many believe what he says and takes it for fact.

They don't take it as fact, they take it as *gospel*. Which is worse, because everything you can provide as proof to the contrary will always be answered with variations of the following:

• You just don't understand./You're stupid.
• You have been brainwashed [by the government/big pharma/whichever].
• You fell for a hoax, dear. (Add a look of pity to that statement.)
• I have it from [insert questionable source here], and that's always right. / My second cousin's once removed boyfriends' ex-MIL's friend knows someone who...

And so on. You see this very line of argument in so many movements - be it intelligent design, anti-vax, young Earth, flat Earth or, yes, anything regarding Covid.

[Astreya]

1 hour ago, AngelsSin said:

 People in our world once believed that the Sun revolved around the Earth, and that the world was flat and if you sailed too far in any direction you would fall off the end of the world, now we know those things aren't true but the were once the popular belief.

I hate to break it to you, but there are still astonishing many people adhering to Flat Earth theories even nowadays: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_flat_Earth_societies

[AngelsSin]

13 minutes ago, Astreya said:

I hate to break it to you, but there are still astonishing many people adhering to Flat Earth theories even nowadays: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_flat_Earth_societies

 

 I do know that some still believe it, I just believe the majority of people know that it isn't true. Not sure though just how many believe the flat Earth theories. I certainly can't give a number on how many do so I could be wrong on how popular it might still be. It's just nowhere near as popular(as in a majority believe it) a belief IMO. Still it's disturbing that any still believe it.

The truth is once something is out there, there will always be some who continue to believe something that is patently not true. Just hopefully that number remains relatively small.

Edited July 12, 2020 by AngelsSin

[Fuzzbucket]

OK - what about evolution.... (*runs away before the fighting starts*)

[Astreya]

@AngelsSin

When I saw stuff like this here a while ago, I just couldn't believe it:

Spoiler

 

 

Unfortunately such stuff directly ties in into the Antivaxxer movement(s) and other harebrained conspiracy theories.

 

I guess this quote by Steven Novella nicely summarizes the problem: "In the end that is the core malfunction of the flat-earthers, and the modern populist rejection of expertise in general. It is a horrifically simplistic view of the world that ignores (partly out of ignorance, and partly out of motivated reasoning ) to [sic] real complexities of our civilization. It is ultimately lazy, childish, and self-indulgent, resulting in a profound level of ignorance drowning in motivated reasoning."

[Daydreamer09]

2 hours ago, olympe said:

 

• You just don't understand./You're stupid.
• You have been brainwashed [by the government/big pharma/whichever].
• You fell for a hoax, dear. (Add a look of pity to that statement.)
• I have it from [insert questionable source here], and that's always right. / My second cousin's once removed boyfriends' ex-MIL's friend knows someone who...

Sounds right. The first 3 points have been things I've been told by people who don't agree with all the shutdowns and mandates in my home state. You can bring up all the relevant facts, but if you call them wrong "you're a naive fool" or "can't read between the lines". The backlash is always  vague about why you are wrong and they never actually have anything backing them up 

 

Pseudo scientists aren't helping things out either putting out information under the guise of 'science.' A chiropractor that I'm just now leaving and never going back to had this up in his lobby about why you shouldn't wear masks. Several points don't make sense and googling the source shows it's not credible. Apologies that it's a bit fuzzy.

 

 

Edited July 12, 2020 by Daydreamer09

[Astreya]

3 minutes ago, Daydreamer09 said:

A chiropractor that I'm just now leaving had this up in his lobby about why you shouldn't wear masks. Several points don't make sense and googling the source shows it's not credible.

I wonder what this person would have had to say if pointed to the fact that countries where mask wearing is mandated do vastly better containing the virus than those who try to ignore it. But I guess the reply would probably be that these countries simply cook their numbers...

Edited July 12, 2020 by Astreya

[AngelsSin]

@Astreya.

 That whole mind frame reminds me of this commentator on I believe it was either Fox news or OAN  where she convolutedly  went from talking about how a zoo unwilling or that it was unknown what a penguins gender was took it to wanting our kids to be gender neutral, going on about gender identity, eventually ending with democrats are wanting to destroy the family structure. It was kinda mad genius how she got to that conclusion and I could see how someone who didn't have a good education could see that as a reasonable conclusion. But I could clearly see how messed up her logic was.

 

@Fuzzbucket.

Lol I obviously subscribe to evolution as opposed to the creationism theory.  Which evolution is backed by science but I certainly wouldn't want to get into a convo with someone who is ultra religious as that IMO would be a pointless convo as they will never see that differently. I cringe to think of how that sort of convo would go.

Edited July 12, 2020 by AngelsSin

[olympe]

6 minutes ago, AngelsSin said:

@Astreya.

 That whole mind frame reminds me of this commentator on I believe it was either Fox news or OAN  where she convolutedly  went from talking about how a zoo unwilling or that it was unknown what a penguins gender was took it to wanting our kids to be gender neutral, going on about gender identity, eventually ending with democrats are wanting to destroy the family structure. It was kinda mad genius how she got to that conclusion and I could see how someone who didn't have a good education could see that as a reasonable conclusion. But I could clearly see how messed up her logic was.

That's the issue with us logic- and fact-based types. We see through this kind of bull****. At least most of the time. Plus, we can be reasoned with.

[Astreya]

59 minutes ago, AngelsSin said:

Lol I obviously subscribe to evolution as opposed to the creationism theory.  Which evolution is backed by science but I certainly wouldn't want to get into a convo with someone who is ultra religious as that IMO would be a pointless convo as they will never see that differently. I cringe to think of how that sort of convo would go.

Well, I had a visit of two Jehova's witnesses once. They caught me when I just got out of the bath and had my hair wrapped up in a towel-turban and I had wrapped myself in a pretty cool kimono that my Dad brought me from a travel to Japan. When they started with their "Do you believe in God" trope, I was a bit cross and decided to involve them in a pretty wild version of Hindu mythology mixed with some uncomfortable scientific questions and deconstructed the creationist stuff they tried to foist on me with proper science, but also adding some neat views derived from Hinduism (more precisely Shaktism). Needless to say that in the end they decided to flee from my Heathen house after telling me that I would endanger their beliefs

 

 

By the way, here's an article about the possible loss of immunity versus Covid-19: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/12/immunity-to-covid-19-could-be-lost-in-months-uk-study-suggests

 

Edited July 12, 2020 by Astreya

[Lagie]

2 hours ago, Daydreamer09 said:

Pseudo scientists aren't helping things out either putting out information under the guise of 'science.' A chiropractor that I'm just now leaving and never going back to had this up in his lobby about why you shouldn't wear masks. Several points don't make sense and googling the source shows it's not credible. Apologies that it's a bit fuzzy.

 

 

 

Spoiler

 

I wouldn't be going back there, either.

 

Masks save lives, and there are many videos out there by health staff who wear them regularly debunking the whole 'lowers your oxygen' nonsense.

[AngelsSin]

1 hour ago, Astreya said:

Well, I had a visit of two Jehova's witnesses once. They caught me when I just got out of the bath and had my hair wrapped up in a towel-turban and I had wrapped myself in a pretty cool kimono that my Dad brought me from a travel to Japan. When they started with their "Do you believe in God" trope, I was a bit cross and decided to involve them in a pretty wild version of Hindu mythology mixed with some uncomfortable scientific questions and deconstructed the creationist stuff they tried to foist on me with proper science, but also adding some neat views derived from Hinduism (more precisely Shaktism). Needless to say that in the end they decided to flee from my Heathen house after telling me that I would endanger their beliefs 😆

 

 

By the way, here's an article about the possible loss of immunity versus Covid-19: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/12/immunity-to-covid-19-could-be-lost-in-months-uk-study-suggests

 

 lol I once found a little booklet that did that as well it has Jehovah's witnesses going to a pagan's door ends with them fleeing, they used the when Cain slew Abel he left and ended up marrying a local pagan women and that they weren't of god's people and as such they weren't born from Original Sin. So their soul didn't need saving like theirs did. I must say enjoyed that. 

🤯😁

[Astreya]

13 hours ago, AngelsSin said:

 lol I once found a little booklet that did that as well it has Jehovah's witnesses going to a pagan's door ends with them fleeing, they used the when Cain slew Abel he left and ended up marrying a local pagan women and that they weren't of god's people and as such they weren't born from Original Sin. So their soul didn't need saving like theirs did. I must say enjoyed that. 

🤯😁

Nice! Although I have a friend who easily topped that when she was in her "Satanist phase" quite some years ago. She had a huge mane of multi-coloured hair, wore all black but for a shirt with a blood red inverted pentagram) and as she was in the kitchen cutting veggies with a huge knife, she had this in her hand when she opened the door to some other JWs. She told me they stared at her in shock right from the start, but when she turned around and called into the (actually empty) flat: "Damien! Did you say one or two blood sacrifices for the Satan incantation?", she told me she was amazed how fast the two JWs were able to run

 

Edit - Back to topic...

When I was looking for something else, I stumbled over this Wikipedia entry of the timeline for the Covid-19 spread in Germany: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_in_Germany

 

If you read the timeline, it shows that the initial response to the pandemic in Germany was also pretty much a case of "Pleiten, Pech und Pannen" (literally: "mishaps, missteps, and misfortune"), so it is in a way amusing that our dealing with the pandemic is held in comparatively high esteem ^^

 

--------------

Daily update for Oberhausen, NRW, Germany:

 

As of today, Monday, July 13, 10:00 GMT+2,  my home town (population 211 000) has 17 active cases, while 287 people have recovered. All in all there have been 316 people who suffered from Covid-19 since the beginning of the pandemic. The number of newly infected people per 100 000 citizens in the last 7 days is 5.2.

 

Currently 2 persons are treated in hospitals, none of them in intensive care. 12 persons sadly died. 37 persons are currently quarantined. All in all there have been 15 053 Covid-19 tests in Oberhausen up to Saturday, July 11.

 

Source: https://www.oberhausen.de/de/index/rathaus/verwaltung/umwelt-gesundheit-und-mobilitat/gesundheit/aktuelle_informationen/informationen_zum_coronavirus/aktuelle_meldungen.php

Edited July 13, 2020 by Astreya

[Astreya]

While I updated my previous post with the daily stuff from my place, IMO this definitely warrants a new post.

 

While the infection rates and deaths in the US soar, Mr.Trump is not worries about the people of the country he is supposed to lead, but only how he can increase his chances to be re-elected by deflecting from his own huge failures. In the process he tries to make the person who really try to save the people untrustworthy and thus hampers the efforts to actually save lives:

 

Fortunately he is called out by people with more common sense, but unfortunately this will likely not reach the Trump death cult followers:

 

Here you can read what was tweeted and retweeted in full as I don't want to give Mr.Trump's idiocy extra room in verbatim here on the forum:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2020/jul/13/anthony-fauci-white-house-donald-trump-record-new-coronavirus-cases-live-updates?page=with:block-5f0c49d58f0824a2adb0664c#block-5f0c49d58f0824a2adb0664c

 

Just a short summary of his newest outrageous criminal callous stupidity:

Quote

Trump earlier retweeted a message from from game show host Chuck Woolery claiming that among others, the CDC and “most” doctors were lying about the coronavirus in order to damage the economy and Trump’s election campaign.

 

It adds to a growing sense that faced with soaring coronavirus cases, and with increased rates of daily new cases in over 40 states, the president is retreating back to a view that the virus is a hoax intended to damage him, and that the medical advice being given is unsound.

 

 

By the way, here is a good article about Dr.Anthony Fauci and the uphill battle he has to fight against the pandemic and its best ally, Mr.Trump: 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/13/fauci-sidelined-as-trumps-white-house-steps-up-briefing-campaign

 

Edited July 13, 2020 by Astreya

[olympe]

51 minutes ago, Astreya said:

While I updated my previous post with the daily stuff from my place, IMO this definitely warrants a new post.

 

While the infection rates and deaths in the US soar, Mr.Trump is not worries about the people of the country he is supposed to lead, but only how he can increase his chances to be re-elected by deflecting from his own huge failures. In the process he tries to make the person who really try to save the people untrustworthy and thus hampers the efforts to actually save lives:

 

Fortunately he is called out by people with more common sense, but unfortunately this will likely not reach the Trump death cult followers. [...]

The problem with going into public discussion with idiot people who don't value facts, truths or logic is that you give them an opportunity to spread their stupid. And, as has been known for a long time, "Slander boldly, something always sticks."

[Ruby Eyes]

There are plenty of quotes out there about trying to argue with fools, and why one shouldn't ...

 

[Astreya]

On the other hand, you can't just let the misinformation stand unchallenged either.

 

Damned if you do, damned if you don't...

[olympe]

I'd rather be damned for letting a small group go off the deep end by not helping them spread their nonsense than spread it to a larger audience so more people go off the deep end. You can't save everyone.

 

On the other hand, I'm really curious to know if a certain stormbird on here is still proud of open California beaches...

[Daydreamer09]

55 minutes ago, olympe said:

 

On the other hand, I'm really curious to know if a certain stormbird on here is still proud of open California beaches...

If I remember correctly, they mentioned that the conditions for the beaches to stay open were people would have to follow social distancing guidelines. Suffice to say that didn't happen. Big surprise.

[trystan]

apologies if i posted this here before....

 

Edited July 13, 2020 by trystan
resize....

[Astreya]

@olympe

The problem is that the small group will become bigger fast as they infect their surroundings and others via social media, youtube and the like. I think it is of the utmost importance that they are countered with facts wherever and whenever possible.

[olympe]

47 minutes ago, Astreya said:

@olympe

The problem is that the small group will become bigger fast as they infect their surroundings and others via social media, youtube and the like. I think it is of the utmost importance that they are countered with facts wherever and whenever possible.

The thing is, as long as you *acknowledge* them, they'll be able to spread their stupid. However, if you just reference facts without directly quoting them or starting a discussion with them, that's still spreading facts.

[Fuzzbucket]

ON a lighter but dead serious note:

 

[Astreya]

Daily update for Oberhausen, NRW, Germany:

 

As of today, Tuesday, July 14, 10:00 GMT+2,  my home town (population 211 000) has 15 active cases, while 291 people have recovered. All in all there have been 316 people who suffered from Covid-19 since the beginning of the pandemic. The number of newly infected people per 100 000 citizens in the last 7 days is 6.2.

 

Currently 3 persons are treated in hospitals, none of them in intensive care. 12 persons sadly died. 44 persons are currently quarantined. All in all there have been 15 212 Covid-19 tests in Oberhausen up to Monday, July 13.

 

Source: https://www.oberhausen.de/de/index/rathaus/verwaltung/umwelt-gesundheit-und-mobilitat/gesundheit/aktuelle_informationen/informationen_zum_coronavirus/aktuelle_meldungen.php